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  #161  
Old 06-13-2015, 04:39 AM
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From this article
"Most young people, however, don’t really feel too strongly, she said. They treat the royal family much like they do the Kardashians."

[...]

That is not so strange. The connection with vulgar celebrities ŕ la The Kardashians or Paris Hilton is not for nothing and has anything to do with how the royals have changed. Prince Haakon of Norway marrying a lady who already was mother to a son, the future Queen of Sweden who felt in love with her personal trainer, the King of the Netherlands who buys properties in Argentina, Mozambique and Greece and makes headlines by purchasing a speedboat for almost a million US $, more connected with movie-stars than with a serious King. The son of Italy's last Crown Prince only in the news because he appears in "real life" soaps, participates in "Dancing With The Stars" and the likes and has no problem to be an actor in advertorials on Italian TV.

All this are a far cry from the values which were synonymous with the "old guard", like Queen Elizabeth II, King Baudouin, King Olav V, Queen Beatrix who all saw monarchy as a destiny, a vocation, all live(d) prudent lifestyles and tried to put dignitas first. King Carl XVI Gustaf, knowing that -aside Prince Bertil- he was the only link in the procreation of the Royal House. He knew about the strict marriage policy which has made the Bernadottes from once "nouveau riches" to a most respected Royal House with the highest standing. He knew about the high values and the strict views maintained by his grandfather King Gustaf VI Adolf and his mother Princess Sibylla. They were the personifications of dignitas and sacrifice.

King Carl XVI Gustaf, his son and his other children (and the same counts for almost all their European counterparts) seem to have forgotten that living a (extremely good) life but no longer according the centuries old rules of the game, is as acting like spoiled brats who shudder by the slightest idea of bringing any personal sacrifice. When Estelle Bernadotte on her turn falls in love with the handsome blonde gardener (and why not? Her mother thaught her personal trainer was most befitting a future Queen of Sweden), then the monarchy has definitely become a vaudeville. Meet The Kardashians then seriously are challenged by Meet The Bernadottes...
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  #162  
Old 06-13-2015, 04:44 AM
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That is not so strange. The connection with vulgar celebrities ŕ la The Kardashians or Paris Hilton is not for nothing and has anything to do with how the royals have changed. Prince Haakon of Norway marrying a lady who already was mother to a son, the future Queen of Sweden who felt in love with her personal trainer, the King of the Netherlands who buys properties in Argentina, Mozambique and Greece and makes headlines by purchasing a speedboat for almost a million US $, more connected with movie-stars than with a serious King. The son of Italy's last Crown Prince only in the news because he appears in "real life" soaps, participates in "Dancing With The Stars" and the likes and has no problem to be an actor in advertorials on Italian TV.

All this are a far cry from the values which were synonymous with the "old guard", like Queen Elizabeth II, King Baudouin, King Olav V, Queen Beatrix who all saw monarchy as a destiny, a vocation, all live(d) prudent lifestyles and tried to put dignitas first. King Carl XVI Gustaf, knowing that -aside Prince Bertil- he was the only link in the procreation of the Royal House. He knew about the strict marrriage policy which has made the Bernadottes from once "nouveau riches" to a most respected Royal House with the highest standing. He knew about the high values and the strict views maintained by his grandfather King Gustaf VI Adolf and his mother Princess Sibylla. They were the personifications of dignitas and sacrifice. King Carl XVI Gustaf, his son and his other children (and the same counts for almost all their European counterparts) seem to have forgotten that living a (extremely good) life according the centuries old rules of the game is as acting like spoiled brats who shudder by the slightest idea of bringing any personal sacrifice. When Estelle Bernadotte on her turn falls in love with the handsome blonde gardener (and why not? Her mother thaught her personal trainer was most befitting a future Queen of Sweden), then the monarchy has definitely become a vaudeville. Meet The Kardashians then seriously are challenged by Meet The Bernadottes...
I' m sooo agree with you. I don't believe it but i hope the next generation make better choices.
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  #163  
Old 06-13-2015, 05:13 AM
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Popularity of the Monarchy in Sweden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
That is not so strange. The connection with vulgar celebrities ŕ la The Kardashians or Paris Hilton is not for nothing and has anything to do with how the royals have changed. Prince Haakon of Norway marrying a lady who already was mother to a son, the future Queen of Sweden who felt in love with her personal trainer, the King of the Netherlands who buys properties in Argentina, Mozambique and Greece and makes headlines by purchasing a speedboat for almost a million US $, more connected with movie-stars than with a serious King. The son of Italy's last Crown Prince only in the news because he appears in "real life" soaps, participates in "Dancing With The Stars" and the likes and has no problem to be an actor in advertorials on Italian TV.

All this are a far cry from the values which were synonymous with the "old guard", like Queen Elizabeth II, King Baudouin, King Olav V, Queen Beatrix who all saw monarchy as a destiny, a vocation, all live(d) prudent lifestyles and tried to put dignitas first. King Carl XVI Gustaf, knowing that -aside Prince Bertil- he was the only link in the procreation of the Royal House. He knew about the strict marrriage policy which has made the Bernadottes from once "nouveau riches" to a most respected Royal House with the highest standing. He knew about the high values and the strict views maintained by his grandfather King Gustaf VI Adolf and his mother Princess Sibylla. They were the personifications of dignitas and sacrifice. King Carl XVI Gustaf, his son and his other children (and the same counts for almost all their European counterparts) seem to have forgotten that living a (extremely good) life according the centuries old rules of the game is as acting like spoiled brats who shudder by the slightest idea of bringing any personal sacrifice. When Estelle Bernadotte on her turn falls in love with the handsome blonde gardener (and why not? Her mother thaught her personal trainer was most befitting a future Queen of Sweden), then the monarchy has definitely become a vaudeville. Meet The Kardashians then seriously are challenged by Meet The Bernadottes...

Partly i agree with you but i think it is a complex problem. All royal families have turned to "normal families" but with a notably commitment as they are allowed to marry of love and "by their heart" today and as that continues, more and more people will question the neccesity of a monarchy. Why should we keep them if they are precisely like us ?

But should we go back to the time when they were not allowed to marry below their own rank ? No that's not a good idea. It would highlight the undemocracy with monarchies and would bring most of todays monarchies to an end in a not so distant future.

There were a lot of people who did not shared Gustaf VI Adolfs view of royal marriages and there is no proof that Princess Sibylla supported him in that. She even favoured the idea of a full cognatic succession wich he was against. And the broken marriages and remarriages in UK shows that Queen Elizabeth II:s pressure on her own children wasn't very good. And King Olav of Norway was very close to have no one after him in the line of succession, had he stopped the marriage between Harald and Sonja.

This is the one of the biggest challanges in the future for all royal families. They need to find a balance between being common, open, close to the people and allow love to grow and yet not being too common.
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  #164  
Old 06-13-2015, 05:57 AM
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My own kids (born between 1983 and 1989) are in a way interested in celebrities but absolutly not in royalty.
Kingsday is for them a welcome holiday and talking about holidays they would surely prefer to have Liberation Day as a holiday.
Most of their friends are the same.
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  #165  
Old 07-18-2015, 09:17 AM
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From a column at "opinions" at the Hela Gotland
We will not get rid of the royal house
The SOM Institute, which regularly measures the people's attitude to the monarchy, shows that just over a fifth of the people wants to abolish the monarchy. More than half want to preserve it, and the rest have no opinion. The figures have also been relatively steady, despite the scandals and weddings. The support is strong, no matter how you twist and turn the numbers. In all social classes, all parts of the country and in all age groups a clear majority wants to retain the monarchy.
Almost all politicians in the parliament are for republic. There are clear democratic and political points of becoming a republic. Firstly, it goes against basic democratic principles that the head of state is determined by heredity and not by the people. And we have currently too little transparency in the court and how our tax money is spent.
But it's not quite as simple just abolish the millenary tradition that the monarchy represents. Now and then a small window appears when the Republican political currents can have an outlet. Such window was in the 1970s. Olof Palme said when the new Constitution was adopted in 1976 that Sweden was now "stroke of a pen away from the republic". 68-generation left currents did not give in, and the stable foundation for the monarchy seemed to bend. Then the King got married with Queen Silvia - and the Republicans had to immediately withdraw from the front. Same thing at the Crown Princess and Prince Daniel's wedding. Republicans are subdued suspended and have to wait for the next window.

The attraction of the Crown Princess couple is not the only thing that puts a spoke in the wheel of the entry of the republic. A major problem is that there is no broad organization against monarchy today. It is always easiest to organize a group of people for something rather than against something - and there is no broad consensus on what the alternative to the monarchy is today. You want the king off - but then what? And the Republican Association is so clumsy in communication and messages that they are not something to put one's hope for.
Crown Princess Victoria is today by far the most popular public figure in Sweden, more popular among Swedes than all the world leaders and all politicians. The future of the monarchy - or the republic - rests on her shoulders. So one thing we can however be certain of: the day that Crown Princess Victoria becomes queen, the mirage of a republic will become even more remote.
Vi blir inte av med kungahuset - Opinion - Hela Gotland
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  #166  
Old 07-18-2015, 09:40 AM
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The monarchy must continue. The real tradition is very important. I was very happy with this news.
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  #167  
Old 07-18-2015, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
From a column at "opinions" at the Hela Gotland
We will not get rid of the royal house
The SOM Institute, which regularly measures the people's attitude to the monarchy, shows that just over a fifth of the people wants to abolish the monarchy. More than half want to preserve it, and the rest have no opinion. The figures have also been relatively steady, despite the scandals and weddings. The support is strong, no matter how you twist and turn the numbers. In all social classes, all parts of the country and in all age groups a clear majority wants to retain the monarchy.
Almost all politicians in the parliament are for republic. There are clear democratic and political points of becoming a republic. Firstly, it goes against basic democratic principles that the head of state is determined by heredity and not by the people. And we have currently too little transparency in the court and how our tax money is spent.
But it's not quite as simple just abolish the millenary tradition that the monarchy represents. Now and then a small window appears when the Republican political currents can have an outlet. Such window was in the 1970s. Olof Palme said when the new Constitution was adopted in 1976 that Sweden was now "stroke of a pen away from the republic". 68-generation left currents did not give in, and the stable foundation for the monarchy seemed to bend. Then the King got married with Queen Silvia - and the Republicans had to immediately withdraw from the front. Same thing at the Crown Princess and Prince Daniel's wedding. Republicans are subdued suspended and have to wait for the next window.

The attraction of the Crown Princess couple is not the only thing that puts a spoke in the wheel of the entry of the republic. A major problem is that there is no broad organization against monarchy today. It is always easiest to organize a group of people for something rather than against something - and there is no broad consensus on what the alternative to the monarchy is today. You want the king off - but then what? And the Republican Association is so clumsy in communication and messages that they are not something to put one's hope for.
Crown Princess Victoria is today by far the most popular public figure in Sweden, more popular among Swedes than all the world leaders and all politicians. The future of the monarchy - or the republic - rests on her shoulders. So one thing we can however be certain of: the day that Crown Princess Victoria becomes queen, the mirage of a republic will become even more remote.
Vi blir inte av med kungahuset - Opinion - Hela Gotland
Translation
Estelle seems to be growing as popular as her mother, so unless that for some reason changes when she becomes an adult, i assume the monarchy is reasonably safe in Sweden for at least two generations.

Having said that, Victoria's seemingly excessive emotional dependence on Daniel is something that bothers me a little bit.
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  #168  
Old 07-18-2015, 11:12 AM
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Hmmm. Daniel and Victoria do seem a very close couple but I honestly do not pick up a vibe of excessive emotional dependence from either of them.
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  #169  
Old 07-18-2015, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Hmmm. Daniel and Victoria do seem a very close couple but I honestly do not pick up a vibe of excessive emotional dependence from either of them.
I feel Victoria was overly dependent on Daniel at least at some point in her life (when she was younger and still struggling with anxiety issues). I can't tell if that's still the case today, but, if it were, it could potentially be negative for her future role as HoS. I hope it's not the case though. What do the Swedes think ?
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  #170  
Old 07-18-2015, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I feel Victoria was overly dependent on Daniel at least at some point in her life (when she was younger and still struggling with anxiety issues). I can't tell if that's still the case today, but, if it were, it could potentially be negative for her future role as HoS. I hope it's not the case though. What do the Swedes think ?
I have never gotten any feelings like this. Here she is seen as a very strong and ambitious woman!

And I'm very happy to see these numbers supporting the monarchy and looking forward to have Victoria as my queen!
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  #171  
Old 07-18-2015, 10:45 PM
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I would say that queen Silvia more or less saved the Swedish monarchy, she had the "right" background, having had a job with a high profile during two Olympic Games, being able to relate to people from different backgrounds. She was also intelligent, and her exotic beauty was a bonus.

I don't think Victoria has been overly dependent on Daniel, I feel that she's a strong woman and that when she has made a decision she sees it through, hadn't she had a strong will she wouldn't have been able to marry Daniel. Yes, Victoria and Daniel are popular and they are doing a good job. As for Estelle's popularity, well, babies and toddlers are always popular, but that doesn't say anything for the future.

For the rest of the royal family, the king is the monarch but his wife and daughter are more popular. Both Carl Philip and Madeleine have low popularity figures, Sofia is newcomer and therefore interesting, but we have to wait and see what happens when the novelty is over. She has gone from having been a docu-soap celebrity to becoming royalty, but will that make her popular among ordinary people in the long run? The number of articles in gossip mags doesn't say anything about how popular or admired a person is.
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  #172  
Old 07-19-2015, 04:18 AM
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Popularity comes on foot but leaves on horseback, free to a famous quote by the Dutch statesman Johan Rudolph Thorbecke (1798-1872). With other words: a single stupidity can ruin popularity or reputation that took years to build.

In several interviews before and during her kingship, Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands showed a remarkable dislike to popularity. She preferred the kingship to be firmly rooted in society, being part of society, the identity and the history of a country, being meaningful to the people.

That is an interesting observation by the old Queen. Imagine that the kingship is not firmly rooted in society, that the Swedes do not at all see the Bernadottes as a part of the identity of the country, then the monarchy indeed is on wobbly grounds, see the quote I started this post with.

Morale of the story: how wonderful that Crown Princess Victoria is so popular. It will undoubtedly help her. But try to look beyond the %%% in the polls and look to the underlying structures of society. With an overwhelming majority of profoundly republicans in Parliament, with growing parts of society who "have nothing" with the monarchy and do not at all see the Bernadottes as part of being Sweden, popularity remains relative. This means that also Victoria and Estelle have to work hard to keep the monarchy relevant and meaningful.
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  #173  
Old 07-19-2015, 04:35 AM
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Ah, what the politicians and the "opinion-elite" think is not necessarily what the general population think.

The elite may be republican, but the ordinary Swede doesn't appear to be particular inclined towards a republic IMO.

In fact the "elite" may finally have to realize how much out of touch with the general population they really are, after the next general election, but that is another topic.
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  #174  
Old 07-20-2015, 10:09 PM
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@Meraude - I remember reading a poll about which royal is popular in Sweden. Victoria came in at 52%, Carl Gustaf at 13% (his coming in 2nd is a miracle considering his scandal), and Daniel 3rd at 6%. The rest of the family came in between 0 - 4%. I couldn't believe Silvia fell in that range, but for C-P, Sofia, Madeleine and Chris I think is due to the tabloid coverage (Chris - 0%, Sofia - 1%, Madeleine - 2%, C-P - 4%. I forgot Silvia's number.) If the new Prince Couple is expected to help with the heavy lifting of royal engagements their numbers are going to have to come up. The Varmland visit is the first test.
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  #175  
Old 07-21-2015, 02:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
@Meraude - I remember reading a poll about which royal is popular in Sweden. Victoria came in at 52%, Carl Gustaf at 13% (his coming in 2nd is a miracle considering his scandal), and Daniel 3rd at 6%. The rest of the family came in between 0 - 4%. I couldn't believe Silvia fell in that range, but for C-P, Sofia, Madeleine and Chris I think is due to the tabloid coverage (Chris - 0%, Sofia - 1%, Madeleine - 2%, C-P - 4%. I forgot Silvia's number.) If the new Prince Couple is expected to help with the heavy lifting of royal engagements their numbers are going to have to come up. The Varmland visit is the first test.
It would be helpful if you had a reference to that poll, but what you should check is:
was it a poll about "give your opinion about each member" or "who is your nr 1 most favorite swedish royal"
I know results from that last poll have been posted here, but in that poll people were only asked to name their one most favorite; it's no surprise that most mentioned CP.Victoria, because she's nr 1 in most polls of this nature
However, that poll doesn't say anything about the popularity of the other royals *after* the most favorite, for all we know they could all be highly popular, a poll like that jyst doesn't show this
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  #176  
Old 07-21-2015, 02:35 AM
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I agree with you Lee-Z. A poll with the question "who is most the favorite royal" it is naturally Victoria came first with the big diferrence. Big role to the polls is how to become the questions.
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  #177  
Old 07-23-2015, 01:53 PM
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Here is a survey done by the University in Göteborg, that shows the popularity of the monarchy in Sweden from 1995 to 2012, you can see that the trust/confidence for the SRF have lessen year by year: http://som.gu.se/digitalAssets/1447/...e-2012_pdf.pdf I don't think the numbers are any higher today than they were in 2012.
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  #178  
Old 07-23-2015, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Meraude View Post
Here is a survey done by the University in Göteborg, that shows the popularity of the monarchy in Sweden from 1995 to 2012, you can see that the trust/confidence for the SRF have lessen year by year: http://som.gu.se/digitalAssets/1447/...e-2012_pdf.pdf I don't think the numbers are any higher today than they were in 2012.
Interesting, Meraude.

It seems the number of pro-monarchists dropped 10 % over the period, with 5% becoming indifferent and 5 % becoming republican.

What is very interesting is the figure for non-Swedes in 2012. That is astonishing! A very large number seems to favor a republic.
Often immigrants are very much in favor of the monarchies, because they a are politically neutral entity the immigrants can relate to in heir new country.
I wonder what the currents figures are? With Estella having entered the field and the increased profile of Victoria and Daniel?

That the journalists have a low opinion of the monarchy is hardly headline news! The Swedish opinion elite, who have a virtual monopoly on the politically correct opinion in Sweden, wouldn't want anything more than abolishing the monarchy.
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  #179  
Old 07-23-2015, 03:50 PM
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Interesting, Meraude.

It seems the number of pro-monarchists dropped 10 % over the period, with 5% becoming indifferent and 5 % becoming republican.

What is very interesting is the figure for non-Swedes in 2012. That is astonishing! A very large number seems to favor a republic.
Often immigrants are very much in favor of the monarchies, because they a are politically neutral entity the immigrants can relate to in heir new country.
I wonder what the currents figures are? With Estella having entered the field and the increased profile of Victoria and Daniel?

That the journalists have a low opinion of the monarchy is hardly headline news! The Swedish opinion elite, who have a virtual monopoly on the politically correct opinion in Sweden, wouldn't want anything more than abolishing the monarchy.
Yeah, Swedish media is almost so much left-ish that it's laughable. So that doesn't surprise me at all.
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  #180  
Old 07-24-2015, 09:54 PM
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So the mainstream Swedish media is no fan of the SRF? Well, it seems it's going against the tide, judging from the public turnouts for the royal weddings from 2010 to 2015. People stood out in the rain to greet Victoria for Victoria's birthday. The gossip press certainly loves them; they're money in the bank. However, the SRF took a hit 5 years ago when Carl Gustav's shenanigans were made public in a book. If there is a faction in the media that want the monarchy abolished, it must be biding its time so it knows when to strike. The Reluctant Monarch proves there are journos that have no compunction about embarrassing the family to make the argument to end the House of Bernadotte. They maybe checking around to see what new dirt they can find. Accusations of a crime (backed up with proof) would be the way they would go.
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