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  #201  
Old 10-06-2015, 04:15 PM
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I put this article here, I posted it earlier to another thread

An article at Dagens Industri, at the Ledare (leader) column
Leader: A Queen to all the People of Sweden
Anyone who follows the royal family can't be without noticing the King and the Crown Princess' commitment to integration and migration issues. At the opening of parliament the King spoke unusually long time about the escape from conflict, the importance of doing what we can to help and to prepare new generations at major changes.
Yesterday the King and the Crown Princess visited a school in Sweden's largest refugee receipt center in Vänersborg and repeated there the same message.
Previously, the Crown Princess and her husband have visited several times the House of Emigrants in Växjö.
The Royal Family's growing interest in migration is positive news. Sweden is a large country of immigration but suffers grave lack of common institutions that can collect all of the country. Traditionally strong immigrant countries like the United States, United Kingdom and Canada are careful about their patriotism and filling citizenship with feelings that touch people. Affiliation with the Swedish nation has been so obvious and so implied that nobody has needed to institutionalize it.
It is a weakness that is now obvious. For example, we do not even have a word for the Swedish citizen which works completely painlessly. The word "svenskar" ("Swedes") is perceived by too many as the name for the old ethnicity and find it difficult to collect all. The Crown Princess avoids the word and uses instead "Sveriges folk" ("The People of Sweden").
In this gap between the old and the new also principled republicans must admit that the monarchy may be the only institution that can now bring together the people of Sweden, and that can symbolize "vi" ("we"). No party has right now that role, not the army, not the football, not the SVT, not Astrid Lindgren, and certainly not the Tax Agency.
For the Crown Princess the role is perfect. The King has profiled himself as an environmentalist. She is a second-generation immigrant and can play a major, important and long-term role as a symbol of an inclusive patriotism. It seems difficult to know what it means to be a Swede, but it is easy to keep on the queen.
[URL="http://www.di.se/artiklar/2015/9/24/ledare-drottning-for-hela-sveriges-folk/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=share_from_di"]Ledare_*Drottning för hela Sveriges folk - di.se[/URL

In 2014, 1.6 million of Sweden's population were born abroad = over 16%.
And after that article in DI was written about two weeks ago, the queen met refugee children who had arrived unaccompanied to Sweden in Landskrona, Carl Philip and Sofia attended at a concert which collected money for refugees, and Carl Philip and Sofia visited a reception center in Borlänge.
Victoria and Daniel with their Crown Princess Couple's Foundation, Stiftelsen Läxhjälpen (Homework Foundation) and Samsung are now together in a pilot project to welcome the newly arrived refugee children to Sweden. The aim is to quickly introduce the newly arrived children in a regular school class. Victoria's and Daniel's Foundation supports also a association for unaccompanied children and "Swedish with a Baby" association where from all over the world to Sweden come parents can meet, study swedish and socialize by talking swedish.

So the royal family is well aware of how the population of Sweden is changing, and in tight contact with Sweden's new and future citizens. Perhaps in a much more tight contact than many of the politicians.
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  #202  
Old 10-06-2015, 04:18 PM
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We need to make the distinction in personal popularity and the desire for the best form of state. Who does not like Crown Princess Victoria and her cute little Estelle? However that does not mean someone who likes Victoria as a person is also automatically in favour of a monarchic form of state...

I am a monarchist but I am also a conservative. The only "logic" reason for having a monarchy is sentiment, the living bond with the past, the embodiment of a royal dynasty, the "fairytale" if you want. But the more the Máximas, the Mette-Marits and the Letizias storm into the Royal Houses, the more "normal" these royals become, paradoxically the less my desire to support the monarchist cause. After all, if I want a "normal" gentleman and a "normal" family with a businesslike approach, maybe I can vote for the president of my own choice, please?

I am sure I will see the collapse of the monarchies in my lifetime. And once Sweden collapses, Norway and the Netherlands and other monarchies will follow. Compare it to same-gender marriage: when it was allowed in the Netherlands, suddenly other states followed too. When the monarchy collapses in Sweden, people in Norway, or Spain or the Netherlands see that the President and the First Lady of Sweden do it as good as King Carl XVI Gustaf and Queen Silvia and suddenly all the other thrones will come in danger.

The Swedish royal family is actually pretty good IMHO at keeping up with the "fairytale" side of the monarchy. Although they now marry commoners like Daniel and Sofia (which is OK in an egalitarian society like Sweden), they seem to enjoy the gala events, the big gun tiaras, carriage rides, white tie weddings, and even the public christening of royal princes way down the line of succession. In a way, they keep traditions that are being phased out even in the modern-day "mother of all monarchies" like the UK.

Furthermore, as I argued in previous posts, I believe there is an actual case for the monarchy as a system of government to be kept in countries like Sweden, or Denmark, or Australia. And that case has nothing to do with popularity, but rather with the fact that potential republican alternatives don't have any clear advantage compared to the present system and may actually end up being worse.

As I said, in the post-1975 Swedish constitution, there is a clear and unambiguous statement of where the executive power lies. It lies with a PM who is appointed upon proposal of the president of the Riksdag (after consulting with the parliamentary parties) and can be removed, or forced into calling a fresh election, by a parliamentary vote of no confidence. The Head of State, on the other hand, is confined to ceremonial and representation duties. The moment Sweden gets an elected president as in Finland, Portugal, or France, that balance of power is upset in a way that the Swedish society and Swedish political parties themselves are not used to.

Of course, it is hard in the 21st century to argue that a hereditary Head of State and a family who has the monopoly of that office reserved for its firstborn child are not anachronistic concepts. Paradoxically, however, the fact that the King owes his position to an accident of birth and has no popular legitimacy is precisely what forces him to withdraw completely from government decisions in a way an elected president probably wouldn't do. A constitutional monarchy, therefore, is a better match in my view for a parliamentary system of government.
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  #203  
Old 10-06-2015, 09:47 PM
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Now it's going to an investigation in the Riksdag to end the monarchy in Sweden. I knew that anti-monarchy sentiment rose recently, but to take it to a vote in parliament? Two to three weeks ago the SRF was present for the opening of Parliament. Now four days before Nicolas' christening this bomb is dropped. Question...don't members of the government attend royal christenings? Are there going to be no-shows as an act of "civil disobedience" - to make a point that royalty does not matter in modern Sweden? I wonder if some people have seen this coming - SVT would not broadcast Nicolas' christening (until public backlash made the station owner change his/her mind). Did the SRF see this coming...and now it's going to do more public appearances to appeal more to the people and show its "value" in everyday life? I can see Carl Gustaf putting up a fight if there is one. The Riksdag disinherited his son in 1979 (I think it still stings to this day); he's not going to sit by and see his daughter and granddaughter lose the Silver Throne. I think Nicolas' christening is the first volley the SRF will fire for its survival.
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  #204  
Old 10-06-2015, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
Now it's going to an investigation in the Riksdag to end the monarchy in Sweden. I knew that anti-monarchy sentiment rose recently, but to take it to a vote in parliament? Two to three weeks ago the SRF was present for the opening of Parliament. Now four days before Nicolas' christening this bomb is dropped. Question...don't members of the government attend royal christenings? Are there going to be no-shows as an act of "civil disobedience" - to make a point that royalty does not matter in modern Sweden? I wonder if some people have seen this coming - SVT would not broadcast Nicolas' christening (until public backlash made the station owner change his/her mind). Did the SRF see this coming...and now it's going to do more public appearances to appeal more to the people and show its "value" in everyday life? I can see Carl Gustaf putting up a fight if there is one. The Riksdag disinherited his son in 1979 (I think it still stings to this day); he's not going to sit by and see his daughter and granddaughter lose the Silver Throne. I think Nicolas' christening is the first volley the SRF will fire for its survival.
I don't think there is any imminent threat to the monarchy in Sweden. You are probably overreacting.
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  #205  
Old 10-06-2015, 10:50 PM
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I think the monarchy is well in Sweden. I do not think is in danger. The monarchy is the best system and must be preserved.
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  #206  
Old 10-07-2015, 06:38 AM
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Also, don't quote me on this, I heard that the royal family has gotten 7,8 million sek (about £600k or 900k$) increase in money in the new budget. So it doesn't sound like a group of people planning to abolish the monarchy :P
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  #207  
Old 10-07-2015, 07:11 AM
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Estelle seems to be growing as popular as her mother, so unless that for some reason changes when she becomes an adult, i assume the monarchy is reasonably safe in Sweden for at least two generations.

Having said that, Victoria's seemingly excessive emotional dependence on Daniel is something that bothers me a little bit.
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Hmmm. Daniel and Victoria do seem a very close couple but I honestly do not pick up a vibe of excessive emotional dependence from either of them.
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I feel Victoria was overly dependent on Daniel at least at some point in her life (when she was younger and still struggling with anxiety issues). I can't tell if that's still the case today, but, if it were, it could potentially be negative for her future role as HoS. I hope it's not the case though. What do the Swedes think?
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Originally Posted by grevinnan View Post
Sometimes comments are so out in left field that I am wondering what kind of site I am on. I would guess most Swedes, including me, think that the comment about the Crown Princess is a bunch of bull.
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Originally Posted by xenobia View Post
Yes. Correct.
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Originally Posted by hernameispekka View Post
Absolutley..
Wow, not very subtle and not a little sexist!

Victoria and Daniel are the most popular members of the SRF, so let's undermine this by hinting, obliquely, that Victoria is a little needy, emotionally dependent, you know, all those little drawbacks that mentally frail women generally suffer from.

Then comes the kicker . . . she's overly dependent on Daniel . . . and Daniel is not born royal and so, since poor, pathetic, needy Victoria cannot cope with anything, she will have to be guided by her commoner husband. Oh dear, that's not good, the House of Bernadotte run by a common country hick!

That is all pure republican cant. Trying to undermine Victoria, calling her mental health into question and not so subtly querying if Daniel (aka Svengali) inserted himself into Crown Princess Victoria's life when she was not in control of all her faculties, and continues to exploit her so "we" must wonder what part commoner Daniel will play as her consort (aka puppeteer).

This is straight out of the Republican Handbook of those who are not Swedish, do not live in a monarchy and see no reason that anyone else should either. It's psychology 101, divide and conquer. First you call into question the mental state of the Heir. Then you call into question the motives of her husband and the part he will play as her Consort in the future . . . unless something is done!

Republic anyone?

That our resident citizens of Sweden do not recognise these glaring problems is hardly surprising, however, that is beside the point because it is not about them, it is about abolishing the monarchy of Sweden and obviously they need help because they have missed to obvious.

Victoria and Daniel are a wonderful, loving couple who invited us to share in the most beautiful of weddings where their heartfelt love was evident to all with eyes to see. As were their tears of joy. They continue with frequent little PDA's which is evidence that all is not what it seems. Rather, it is evidence of the Heir's clingy, dependent mental state.

Frederik and Mary are a wonderful, loving couple who invited us to share in the most beautiful of weddings where their heartfelt love was evident to all with eyes to see. As were their tears of joy. They continue with frequent little PDA's which is evidence of their wonderful relationship. (See the 2015 Opening of Parliament for latest photos).

A bunch of bull? You bet your booties baby! This is totally and completely, self-serving, bollocks!
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  #208  
Old 10-07-2015, 07:58 AM
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@Marg - who started the co-dependency meme on Victoria? Are there members of the Riksdag that resent the power and sway the SRF has in Sweden and that's why this is coming? If the politicians had a problem with Daniel, why did they give final consent to the marriage as required by law? I smell political shenanigans with this move to end the monarchy now.
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  #209  
Old 10-07-2015, 09:01 AM
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Well the underlying stream is of course that when fellow Swedes as Mr Westling (a gym owner), Ms Hellqvist (a model) or Mr Bergström (as was intended before the engagement was broken up) can simply become "royal", wear the Kungliga Serafimerorden and suddenly become a Duke or a Duchess, sometimes even of a "Duchy" which never had a Duke before, then even the dumbest goof in the street will scratch the head and wonder what this is all about.


That does not mean that monarchies with a royalborn spouse would not have been in danger: of course they are. But at least the intrinsic notion of what a "royal family" or an aristocracy actually means and is, remains in place. The only argument monarchists have. When the monarchy is open for all and everyone, even when you have shown your tattoed back and your undies in magazines, then it is the very best advertorial for having a republic. Let me vote by myself if I want a President with a First Lady whom posed with a tatooed back in her knickers...


The only argument: "We are a special family, an unique family, we embody Sweden's history, we are linked to all illustrious families in Europe" of course disappears when a waitress from Christiansand puts on a diadem or a sportsschool dude suddenly sees his daughter being the future Queen of Sweden... That is obvious.


Once somewhere in Europe a monarchy collapses. Spain? Belgium? The Netherlands? Soon all other monarchies will follow. See the fall of the one communist regime after the other. See the fall of the one Arab regime after the other. See the one after the other state allowing same gender marriage. Etc. It only needs one domino stone to let the whole structure collapse.
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  #210  
Old 10-07-2015, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Well the underlying stream is of course that when fellow Swedes as Mr Westling (a gym owner), Ms Hellqvist (a model) or Mr Bergström (as was intended before the engagement was broken up) can simply become "royal", wear the Kungliga Serafimerorden and suddenly become a Duke or a Duchess, sometimes even of a "Duchy" which never had a Duke before, then even the dumbest goof in the street will scratch the head and wonder what this is all about.


That does not mean that monarchies with a royalborn spouse would not have been in danger: of course they are. But at least the intrinsic notion of what a "royal family" or an aristocracy actually means and is, remains in place. The only argument monarchists have. When the monarchy is open for all and everyone, even when you have shown your tattoed back and your undies in magazines, then it is the very best advertorial for having a republic. Let me vote by myself if I want a President with a First Lady whom posed with a tatooed back in her knickers...


The only argument: "We are a special family, an unique family, we embody Sweden's history, we are linked to all illustrious families in Europe" of course disappears when a waitress from Christiansand puts on a diadem or a sportsschool dude suddenly sees his daughter being the future Queen of Sweden... That is obvious.


Once somewhere in Europe a monarchy collapses. Spain? Belgium? The Netherlands? Soon all other monarchies will follow. See the fall of the one communist regime after the other. See the fall of the one Arab regime after the other. See the one after the other state allowing same gender marriage. Etc. It only needs one domino stone to let the whole structure collapse.
Whoa, you do not know Swedes at all I can see. I can almost promise that the marriages of Daniel etc have done way more good in the eyes of the people than it has done bad.
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  #211  
Old 10-07-2015, 09:19 AM
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I think that the petition brought in Parliament means nothing alarming, at least the near future. I guess that wanting a republic has very little to do with the members of the current royal family. Said this, I've always been under the impression that the swedish people feel "relatable" to the members of the royal family: their approachable behavior, especially from Victoria, has always been appreciated. As far as I know Swedes have this kind of "friendly" relationship with the royal family. I think that they don't care much about stiffness, protocol or pump as in the british monarchy for example. It is not wrong, it is just how their relationship works. And it has always worked fine so far.

Here it is my personal take:I 'm eager to see Victoria on the throne. I think she will be a great queen, maybe the better one. She can only do good for her country. And IMO if the monarchy haven't been in danger with the unpopular Carl Gustav, I very much doubt it will with the reign of Victoria of Sweden. But again, I can't know what the future holds.
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  #212  
Old 10-07-2015, 09:24 AM
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I think that the petition brought in Parliament means nothing alarming, at least the near future. I guess that wanting a republic has very little to do with the members of the current royal family. Said this, I've always been under the impression that the swedish people feel "relatable" to the members of the royal family: their approachable behavior, especially from Victoria, has always been appreciated. As far as I know Swedes have this kind of "friendly" relationship with the royal family. I think that they don't care much about stiffness, protocol or pump as in the british monarchy for example. It is not wrong, it is just how their relationship works. And it has always worked fine so far.

Here it is my personal take:I 'm eager to see Victoria on the throne. I think she will be a great queen, maybe the better one. She can only do good for her country. And IMO if the monarchy haven't been in danger with the unpopular Carl Gustav, I very much doubt it will with the reign of Victoria of Sweden. But again, I can't know what the future holds.
I agree fully with this. Victoria herself is very popular (and so is Daniel) among alot of people, even in republican circles. A little bit like Queen Elizabeth actually. Even republicans have respect for them, their work ethic and (in Victorias case) her genuine portrayal of kindness. So IF there is some republican stirrings I doubt it has anything to do with the members themself (except the king, maybe!) and more to do with the political and constitutional side of it.
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  #213  
Old 10-07-2015, 09:37 AM
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I agree fully with this. Victoria herself is very popular (and so is Daniel) among alot of people, even in republican circles. A little bit like Queen Elizabeth actually. Even republicans have respect for them, their work ethic and (in Victorias case) her genuine portrayal of kindness. So IF there is some republican stirrings I doubt it has anything to do with the members themself (except the king, maybe!) and more to do with the political and constitutional side of it.
You have expressed my opinion much better than I I've always heard good comments about Victoria: some Swedes even told me they can't wait for queen Victoria, and how much better it would be for the royal family! I think there has been several polls about that, always indicating a preference for Victoria over the King.
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  #214  
Old 10-07-2015, 09:48 AM
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You have expressed my opinion much better than I I've always heard good comments about Victoria: some Swedes even told me they can't wait for queen Victoria, and how much better it would be for the royal family! I think there has been several polls about that, always indicating a preference for Victoria over the King.
Should the King abdicate then ? Would that be good for the monarchy ? I don't think CG has any intention to abdicate and he's still relatively young at 69.
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Old 10-07-2015, 09:55 AM
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Should the King abdicate then ? Would that be good for the monarchy ? I don't think CG has any intention to abdicate and he's still relatively young at 69.
He won't abdicate, in my opinion. Some people think he should but I don't think it will hurt them if he stays a bit longer. I think Victoria likes that she has more time with Estelle and other coming children, a luxuary Silvia and the King didn't have. So I think there is two reasons the King wont abdicate. 1. As he said himself: He's not done and "That's not how we do things here" 2. To give Victoria space for her family. BUt I DO think they see Victorias popularity and is piggybacking a bit on that, having the King and Victoria do alot of engagements together to "hide" the king a bit, and also loosen and lighten him up :) BUt this is just my speculations.
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  #216  
Old 10-07-2015, 10:56 AM
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Should the King abdicate then ? Would that be good for the monarchy ? I don't think CG has any intention to abdicate and he's still relatively young at 69.
Erhm,I've neve said or suggested that the King should abdicate! I've only said that Victoria is more popular than her father, and that she will do a eccellent work when her time comes!
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  #217  
Old 10-07-2015, 11:36 AM
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Also, don't quote me on this, I heard that the royal family has gotten 7,8 million sek (about £600k or 900k$) increase in money in the new budget. So it doesn't sound like a group of people planning to abolish the monarchy :P
It was the Minister for Finance, who presented the budget for 2016 and told that the royal court gets SEK 7,8 million more next year.

The monarchy in Sweden is not in danger during the next years although the Republican Association wants Sweden to be Republic. And the reason that they want Sweden as a republic has nothing to do that the king married Silvia, Victoria married Daniel, Carl Philip married Sofia and Madeleine married Chris. The Republican Association wants Sweden to be a republic because according to them it is not democratic that the Head of State is born to his/her position and not elected by the people of Sweden. Silvia, Daniel, Sofia and Chris aren't a problem to the Republican Association, the king, Victoria and Estelle are.
The other things that the Republican Association repeats at their articles are that Victoria and Estelle have to be made free of their burden and have right to themselves decide what they want to do in their lives. And that the weddings and christenings of the members of the royal family should be private events and not be paid mostly from the apanage, by taxpayers.

I have always seen Victoria as an extremely strong woman, after she got over her anorexia. Victoria is super popular and extremely respected in Sweden. Many of the republicans have said that they would vote for her as the first president. And people in social media who have republican opinions, praise Victoria and acknowledge her skills and good work. Daniel is also very popular and respected because of his work.
Victoria's and Daniel's strong love and deep mutual respect to each other is something Sweden can rely in the future. Although Victoria is a strong woman, she needs a husband who supports her with 100 %, and who understands his position as a prince consort. And she has found that man, lucky for her and lucky for Sweden. Daniel said today in Uppsala: "In this role I have now, my wife is my role model".

It is good that the king and Victoria have started working more together, just the two of them. Perhaps a small transition phase has started. I would like to see the king abdicate in 5-8 years, but I don't believe he will, if he stays healthy, because he has said that he will never abdicate.

And where have people got the impression that the politicians had trouble accepting Daniel as Victoria's husband? After Daniel had proposed Victoria, Victoria had said yes, the king gave his consent to the marriage. The king, in accordance with the procedures set out in the Swedish Constitution, requested the agreement by the Swedish Government, which was subsequently communicated to the King in connection with an information council held on 24th February 2009 at the Royal Palace and the engagement was published.
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  #218  
Old 10-07-2015, 11:53 AM
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I do not see why the King to step down. He is still young and quite active. Besides herself and Victoria would not want. You need to have more time for her family off course from his duties as heir. As for the great popularity she have that is good for the monarchy besides she is the future Queen. The monarchies are not lost with just discussions .
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  #219  
Old 10-07-2015, 12:06 PM
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Whoa, you do not know Swedes at all I can see. I can almost promise that the marriages of Daniel etc have done way more good in the eyes of the people than it has done bad.
You are confusing Crown Princess Victoria's personal popularity with support for a monarchical system. I think it are two different things.

Let me word it differently: I think Felipe de Borbón as an individual person is a popular and well-liked dude. The support for the monarchy in Spain however is not equal to the statistics for Felipe himself.

I think that Queen Máxima is a veeeeery popular and well-liked person. The system of a monarchy on itself does not have the same approval. It is very well possible that the Dutch monarchy will collapse despite personal popularity of the persons. It is not one and one is two.
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  #220  
Old 10-07-2015, 01:08 PM
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Maybe a dumb question but aren't we making a mountain out of a molehill?
In every monarchy there are people (and politicians) who want to end their monarchy, but this rarely amounts to much...
I mean: not even a well known gossip mag like "Bunte" has reported on this and if *they* don't consider it worth mentioning that's also saying something...
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