The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #101  
Old 03-01-2010, 06:30 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: N/A, United Kingdom
Posts: 493
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAfan View Post
During the exile Wilhelm finally got able to realize one of his biggest dreams, to live like a (British) country gentleman, finally living more relaxed; he no longer was the Lord of War with his martial mustache, but a distinguished gentleman with falling grey mustache and beard.
I dare to say that during the exile he found the interior peace and the mental lucidity that he missed for most of his life.
hehe....how true that is !
there is a story whereby when he first arrived in exile, he asked his host Count Beninck (a distant cousin of the Dukes of Portland), for "a good hot cup of English tea" !!
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 03-01-2010, 07:01 PM
MAfan's Avatar
Super Moderator
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: N/A, Italy
Posts: 4,452
What I find very interesting and difficult to understand is Wilhelm's feelings towards Great Britain and his British relatives.
On a side he loved the UK, as he told and wrote several times, on the other side he was jealous and envious of British military supremacy in the whole world, and always he tried to contrast it.
On a side he deeply loved his grandmother, Queen Victoria, and on the other side he deeply hated his uncle King Edward VII and his mother Victoria. After the death of the Queen in 1901 his relations with his British relatives became even more cold then before, and so cold remained until January 1939, when Queen Mary sent him her wishes on his 80th birthday.
Wilhelm loved Great Britain, but for years fought against and tried to destroy it.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 03-01-2010, 07:26 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: N/A, United Kingdom
Posts: 493
about Wilhelm and Ella...it was during his student days at Bonn, when he fell in love with her and he spent most of his time in between his lessons writing love poems dedicated to her.....but the romance was doomed....it is said that his mother the strong willed Crown Princess Vicky refused to let her son marry her niece..the result is that Ella did not have much choice in the matter but to turn him down !!

his love for her never died, even after his marriage to Dona, the memory of Ella haunted him. when she married the Grand Duke, he was inconsolable and he refused to see her except on state occasions and then he only exchanged the briefest of civilities to her !

it is said that he kept a photograph of Ella on his desk until the day he died.....very touching !
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 03-01-2010, 07:27 PM
Russophile's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Portland, United States
Posts: 4,077
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowflower View Post
and he would openly compare her with his cousin Ella, his first love. And guess what, Ella was always the winner during these comparisons. It seems that years needed to pass before being able to fully appreciate her.
It is said he made several appeals to Ella to leave Russia during the revolution (Massie, oh there's another book that has it too! Russo needs more caffiene!! ) and would have given her his protection but she would have none of it.
__________________
"Not MGM, not the press, not anyone can tell me what to do."--Ava Gardner
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 03-01-2010, 08:32 PM
maria-olivia's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Posts: 2,372
I visited his last home : Het Doorn near Uttrecht ; very interesting.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 03-01-2010, 08:44 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Spring Hill, United States
Posts: 2,533
Ella dispised him. Found him boorish and unstable. Not that Sergei was a gem.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 03-02-2010, 02:07 AM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: brisbane, Australia
Posts: 510
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAfan View Post
Wilhelm loved Great Britain, but for years fought against and tried to destroy it.
Perhaps like an immature child, if he couldn't have it then no one would.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 03-02-2010, 09:51 AM
CarolinaLandgrave's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Atlanta, United States
Posts: 368
Quote:
Originally Posted by COUNTESS View Post
Ella dispised him. Found him boorish and unstable. Not that Sergei was a gem.
Amen to that!!!! Ella passed up one odd duck for a completely different odd duck!
Quote:
Originally Posted by fearghas View Post
Perhaps like an immature child, if he couldn't have it then no one would.
This is, in my opinion, one of the best summations of the Kaiser and his love-hate relationship with his British kin!!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 03-02-2010, 10:18 AM
MAfan's Avatar
Super Moderator
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: N/A, Italy
Posts: 4,452
Quote:
Originally Posted by fearghas View Post
Perhaps like an immature child, if he couldn't have it then no one would.
Yes, this explanation suits him perfectly.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 03-02-2010, 10:33 AM
Marengo's Avatar
Administrator
Royal Blogger, TRF Author
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Posts: 14,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by fearghas View Post
Perhaps like an immature child, if he couldn't have it then no one would.
Well, to say that Wilhelm tried to destroy the UK is a bit too much and and too much of an anglosaxon approach to history. He was jealous of his uncle for sure, and did not like him (the feeling was mutual. But the love-hate relationship also has to do with Germany itself.

I am following a very interesting course at university called 'About Violence and Evil in Europe', and two weeks ago the German sentiments before WWI were discussed.

The love-hate for the UK was something which lived in Germany and mainly had to do with Germany's late arrival in the center of European politics (1871). It felt that they needed to conquer a position in the world, which f.e. resulted in getting useless colonies like Namibia, Tangenika etc. The construction of a fleet was also part of this. Added to this there was a cultural 'wave', that many thought that German culture was somehow superior to the rest of Europe, and that the Germans needed a place in the world. Add to this the sense of 'einkreisung', the isolated position of Germany, the social-Darwinism model of weak-strong states that was en vogue in science (not only in Germany) and hysterical sources about the potential strength of the Russian army, and a 'pre emptive strike' towards Russia, with all the consequenses isn't too hard too imagine.

The goal was never to distroy the UK, in fact the Germans would much rather had the UK out of the war. To reduce WWI to cousin Willy being jealous of WWI also forgets that his position was weak and he was like a puppet in the hands of who really comanded Germany. Militairy men like Erich von Ludendorff and Paul von Hindenburg.
__________________
TRF Rules and FAQ
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 03-02-2010, 12:36 PM
EmpressRouge's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 1,294
When Frederich married Victoria, Bismark commented that he liked everything about the bride except that she was British. Victoria certainly had the personality and education to be a Queen/Empress, but Bismark did not like having even more British influence in Prussia, especially since there was already British hegemony everywhere.
__________________
Real princesses always wear sleeves so why do we all go for strapless?
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 03-02-2010, 12:56 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: N/A, United Kingdom
Posts: 493
His relationship with his Maternal Family

he did have a sincere wish to belong and be fully accepted by the family, but given his character, perhaps he was only tolerated by the family. even his grandmother, The Queen wrote this of him " he is such a hotheaded, conceited and wrong headed young man, devoid of all feeling !". yes even as a young man he was unbearable in their eyes. his conduct and actions grated upon the family !

Wilhelm may had picked up on this and as a result he may had felt slighted and over time he began to believe the worst of his british relatives and harbour resentment towards them. thus he sought petty revenges against them, esp his uncle Berite, for example, having succeeding to the German throne, he made sure he scored points over him regarding protocol, such as his visit to the Austian capital in 1888 !!. he had arranged to arrive on the very same day as his uncle was to arrive and him being a crowned head would have the stage to himself....

such actions did nothing to endear him further to the family, in fact quite the reverse. they never took him seriously as a person and if there was one thing he resented more than English Criticism that was the English condescension !

matters even became much worse after the death of the old Queen. his feelings towards his uncle now King (Edward VII) became more intense, he regarded him as a corrupt double dealing old roue.. as the Encircler: a satanic schemer intent on ringing Germany with ememies. they met officially and unofficially several times during the Kings short reign, but it was said that "a feeling of thunder was in the air" when both men was together.

somewhat oddly Wilhelm, still pined for acceptance and to have a sense of belonging to the family, he is once said to uncle on a visit "blood is thicker than water, we are one family" and continued his overtures of friendship towards his uncle and his uncles country....but his very actions had put paid to this, if anyone was double dealing at this time it was himself, not the King and everyone knew it to be so...

yet within the family, he some had allies, it was said that both the future King George V and Queen Mary had a great liking to him and quite fond of him too !!. he himself admired his cousin Georgie and during his exile , he replaced his agressively waxed moustache with a soft grey beard so favoured by his cousin.

and as mentioned, during his exile he had lived the life of an English countryman, and by doing so.... perhaps he did find an acceptance and a sense of belonging of sorts in his heart which was so often denied him !!.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 08-01-2010, 08:40 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Washington, United States
Posts: 17
I have a question about the marriage of Wilhelm and Augusta Viktoria (Dona).

It seems there was some question about whether she was royal enough for the marriage to be an "ebenburtig" match that would produce offspring eligible to inherit the throne. Obviously it was resolved in favor of the marriage, but I still am puzzled. There are two aspects to this.

Some people thought that the daughter of a Duke of Schleswig-Holstein (which was not a ruling family or even a mediatized one), but it does seem that other German royal families thought it was ok to marry with the Schleswig-Holsteins. Was this b/c of the Dukes very, very remote connection to the Danish throne?

But the more puzzling aspect is that Augusta Viktoria (Dona's) maternal grandmother was a mere Danish Countess and not at all royal. Was the idea that if this was good enough for the Scheswig-Holstein Ducal house (so Dona's father became Duke despite his mother's background) then the Hohenzollerns would not object?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 08-02-2010, 02:45 AM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: brisbane, Australia
Posts: 510
I know that his mother never really approved. I also think I read somewhere that he had the support of Bismark in the marriage. It also makes the fuss over his sisters wish to marry a battenberg a bit hypocritcal.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 08-29-2010, 09:17 AM
CarolinaLandgrave's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Atlanta, United States
Posts: 368
Just finished reading another book on Willy "Kaiser Wilhelm II - Germany's Last Emperor" by John van der Kiste....
The author stated the marriage was a result (as usual) of Willy's impatience as a result of being spurned by his cousin Elizabeth of Hesse-Darmstadt "Ella".... and he also had the full backing, as Fearghas said, of Bismark. Vicky seems to oscillate on her position with Dona. Queen Victoria, in van der Kiste's book, referred to Dona as a "poor, insignificant, foolish little princess".... so QV must have not thought much of her (although she was descended from her half-sister).
If this was QV's opinion of Dona... I can't imagine the Hohenzollern's liking her! Esp Kaiser Wilhelm I (who was still alive), who had been denied the chance to marry his love - Elisa Radziwill - who had much more royal blood, Hohenzollern even, than Dona!!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 08-29-2010, 10:37 AM
Zonk's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere in, United States
Posts: 10,367
I have read that book as well as another one on Willy.

It seems like Princess Vicky (Will's mother) also had high hopes for the marriage. Prior to the marriage she thought that Dona was a likable enough person and I believe supported the marriage. It wasn't until after they got married that Dona did a 180 and started to treat Vicky with the same disdain as Willy.

Honestly, some people are just born unhappy. I don't think anything would have pleased him. And although Serge was not a prize, I think Ella did the right thing. But one does question if Willy would have been so favor of a war in Europe.
__________________
.

Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 08-29-2010, 12:15 PM
CarolinaLandgrave's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Atlanta, United States
Posts: 368
I agree, Zonk - Ella would not have been happy within the Hohenzollern court -I tend to see a little of her Aunt Vicky in her...
And Willy - nothing short of being born Prince of Wales instead of 3rd in line to the German Empire would have made him happy.... a much maligned, confused, and trouble person he was.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 08-29-2010, 02:13 PM
EmpressRouge's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 1,294
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
It seems like Princess Vicky (Will's mother) also had high hopes for the marriage. Prior to the marriage she thought that Dona was a likable enough person and I believe supported the marriage. It wasn't until after they got married that Dona did a 180 and started to treat Vicky with the same disdain as Willy.
Based on what I've read, Dona was not particularly bright nor had any political ideas of her own, unlike Vicky. Basically, she was the perfect dutiful, submissive wife to Willy, since if it hadn't been for him, she would have just been some minor royal whose father had questionable sovereignty. It wouldn't surprise me that Vicky thought she could mold Dona, but Willy got to her first and Dona did the 180 in her attitude towards Vicky.
__________________
Real princesses always wear sleeves so why do we all go for strapless?
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 08-31-2010, 08:38 AM
CarolinaLandgrave's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Atlanta, United States
Posts: 368
Dona was for sure nothing at all like Vicky - she didn't have the no where close to the intelligence of her mother-in-law. Ella, on the other hand.... different story, in my opinion.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old 08-31-2010, 10:01 AM
EmpressRouge's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 1,294
In King, Kaiser, Tsar Clay claims that Vicky did NOT want Ella as a wife for Willy, despite being her own niece. Alice had been a carrier of hemophilia and Ella stood a good chance of being one, too. Vicky had lucked out and did not bring the disease to the Prussian house, but it would have been disastrous for her own niece to introduce hemophilia to the very "pure blood" conscious Hohenzollern.
__________________

__________________
Real princesses always wear sleeves so why do we all go for strapless?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Prince William of Gloucester (1941-1972) Etienne,DuchessofBurgundy British Royals 99 11-30-2014 01:31 AM
Queen Emma (1859-1934) Marengo Dutch Royal History 27 06-09-2014 04:20 AM




Popular Tags
abdication belgium birth carl philip charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events fashion germany grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta leonor infanta sofia jewellery jordan king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander letizia luxembourg nobility official visit ottoman pregnancy president hollande prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince daniel prince floris prince maurits prince pieter-christiaan princess aimee princess anita princess astrid princess beatrix princess charlene princess claire princess mabel princess madeleine princess margriet princess mary queen anne-marie queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen paola queen silvia royal royal fashion russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit stockholm sweden the hague visit wedding william



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:02 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]