Future and Popularity of the Spanish Monarchy

[An Ard Ri]

The Pro-Spanish Republic March in Madrid yesterday.

Spanish Republic Pictures And Photos | Getty Images

 

[Mbruno]

The Pro-Spanish Republic March in Madrid yesterday.

Spanish Republic Pictures And Photos | Getty Images

April 14 is the anniversary of the proclamation of the Second Spanish Republic. That is why pro-Republic groups were demonstrating on the streets.

It is a fact that republicans are a large section of the Spanish population, but the relevant point is that, on the other hand, there is still a monarchist majority or, at least, a majority that doesn't see the need to change the system of government, even if they are not monarchists per se.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Republicans booing the King in San Sebastián last week.

Vídeos: Abucheos al Rey Don Felipe VI en San Sebastián

 

[Blog Real]

I think the Spanish monarchy is secure. I believe that the majority of Spaniards see no need to change the system of Government. But there will be always manifestations of people who do not agree with the State leadership system, and are entitled to express themselves, but there's no need to boo the King.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

The Royal Family has been booed many times in recent years or decades, there is and has always been a strong anti-monarchy sentiment within the country.
These days they will be booed or worse eg in Catalonia or other independency-seeking parts but I agree that Spain has more pressing issues than getting rid of the monarchy.

 

[Blog Real]

Although the Royal family has been booed often, we also saw many demonstrations of people supporting the Royal family. The monarchy has a lot of support in Spain and I have noticed that, although there is a part of the Spanish that you don't support the monarchy.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Members of radical left-wing Catalan independentist political party CUP (Popular Unity Candidates) burns a picture of Spain's King Felipe during a anti-monarchy demonstration in Barcelona, on December 12, 2016.

King Felipe Vi Spain Politics Catalonia Royals Pictures and Photos | Getty Images

 

[Marty91charmed]

Gosh, this is pure exstremism, if you think that terroristic associations burn photos, too. I wish this barbaric were legally punishabale....shame on them!

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Members of radical left-wing Catalan independentist political party CUP (Popular Unity Candidates) burns a picture of Spain's King Felipe during a anti-monarchy demonstration in Barcelona, on December 12, 2016.

King Felipe Vi Spain Politics Catalonia Royals Pictures and Photos | Getty Images

Fewer Royals seem to be more hard working and/or well-intentioned than King Felipe. I don't follow the SRF particularly closely but his love for Spain and desire to be a good monarch comes through loud and clear.

These demonstrators should be careful what they wish for. They are barking up the wrong tree.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

In my opinion it has little to do with Don Felipe himself and everything with what he symbolizes: Spain. Separatists wanting to break with Spain burning a portrait with THE embodiment of Spain -the King- is a pretty easy-found target.

 

[Fürstin Taxis]

^That's the point, yes.

Felipes future as King is very rocky and the seperation will imo eventually decide about it. How can you continue when an important part of Spain leaves? Very chaotic years are ahead I fear :/

 

[Blog Real]

This is what happened in Spain is very sad. The King, the Royal family and the monarchy are among the few things that unites Spain still. The question of the independence of Catalonia is complicated and I don't believe that will happen in the next few decades.
I think most parties cannot defend independence.

 

[An Ard Ri]

A group of people gather to support separatists who burned photos King Felipe during the National Day of Catalonia 'Diada' as their trial continue at the National Court in Madrid, Spain on December 13th, 2016.

King Felipe Vi Trial Of Seperatists In Madrid Pictures and Photos | Getty Images

 

[Al_bina]

How totalitarian of democratic enlightened European Spain to arrest people, who just wished to express their opinion.

On a different note, the Spanish government has to find a way to settle the Catalan question. To the best of my knowledge, Catalans were vocal in calling for a possible referendum after King Juan Carlos' abdication.

 

[lula]

How totalitarian of democratic enlightened European Spain to arrest people, who just wished to express their opinion. On a different note, the Spanish government has to find a way to settle the Catalan question.

The opinion must be expressed non-violently, without making threats or inciting hatred. The freedom of expression of a person ends where the fundamental rights of another person begin.

They were not arrested for burning the photos, they were arrested for not having fulfilled their obligation to go to testify to a court.

 

[Blog Real]

A new association will be dedicated to promoting the monarchical sentiment among the Spaniards: the Union Nacional Monárquica de España. Its main objective is to "foster the history of the Monarchy and loyalty to the current Monarchic institution and the values that emanate from it for the benefit of the Kingdom of Spain and all Spaniards."

Nace una nueva asociación para fomentar la lealtad a la Corona

 

[An Ard Ri]

A new association will be dedicated to promoting the monarchical sentiment among the Spaniards: the Union Nacional Monárquica de España. Its main objective is to "foster the history of the Monarchy and loyalty to the current Monarchic institution and the values that emanate from it for the benefit of the Kingdom of Spain and all Spaniards."

Nace una nueva asociación para fomentar la lealtad a la Corona

Here's a translation,in future please post an English translation with your link if the article is not in English.

https://translate.google.com/transl...d-Corona_0_2830516951.html&edit-text=&act=url

 

[JR76]

Given the current situation in Catalonia one wonders what would happen with the monarchy if parts of Spain gained independence. Could the constitutional process initiated by such a thing happening lead to a republic?

 

[Pranter]

That situation in Spain is interesting to watch.


LaRae

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Absolutely shocking pictures, how can you think that police violence can prevent anything. Catalans wanted to be heard, a majority possibly would have voted no anyway. Now this has escalated to no end and there will be worse tension than ever. Not only moderate Catalans are appalled but also the rest of Spain and the civilized world.
Catalans 'vote for independence' in 'illegal' referendum | Daily Mail Online

Felipe is sworn to political neutrality but has made clear that there is no other way than a unified Spain, same position like the central government in Madrid. But I am sure he strongly disagrees with any violence.
Rajoy is a hate figure for many now, I don't think this will reflect on Felipe in any way, but monarchy has never been popular in Catalonia, what could even be seen after the recent attacks when Felipe got booed, and it certainly won't get any better now.

 

[Marengo]

AFAIK Cataluña was never an independent country. I do not see why every province and region in Europe should gain independence.

I do not think violence is the answer to anything and I wonder if Rajoy is able to stay on, considering the mess his government has made of this. It is unlikely that he can be helpful in a deescalation of the conflict, but the same goes for Puigdemont. Both men have been looking for confrontation, in the hope of electoral gain. Let's hope that moderate voices on both sides will stand up soon.

The Spanish constitution is clear, it is "based on the indissoluble unity of the Spanish Nation, the common and indivisible homeland of all Spaniards". The court-of-justice as such is correct in declaring the referendum illegal.

The only thing the king can do is to stay away from this mess. But in the end he is the symbol of Spain and as such his role will always be controversial to seperatists.

 

[Iluvbertie]

When you say it is in the Constitution - did the people approve the constitution in a referendum? How can the constitution be changed?

In Australia, for instance, our constitution was approved by a referendum to begin with and can only be changed via a referendum. Works well down here as it allows the entire population to have a say in any changes rather than simply a few elected people. In 44 referenda since Federation we have changed the constitution 8 times.

In a democracy surely the people should have a say in the rules by which they are governed?

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Both are to blame and totally ruthless using the people as pawns for their own political power games. Compromise was never seriously discussed.

Puigdemont put a questionable populistic law through the Catalan Parliament, against the advice of independent legal experts or opposition. Alone with the majority of his own mandates, only thanks to a very specific election law. Less then half of the Catalans did not vote in favour if I recall correctly.

Puigdemont knew from the start that the referendum would only trigger a violent conflict with Madrid, that the constitutional judges would declare it illegal for Catalans to participate, and that the scandal would only benefit him, mobilizing his own troops, the other side left divided: those who boycot and those who say NO. With escalation, a majority of YES could be calculated.

Rajoy has done everything to become the hate figute of Catalans. He went before the Constitutional Court against a new autonomy law for Catalonia, with success. Then he blocked all requests from Barcelona to renegotiate the money transfers to Madrid. Regarding a referendum, he always said NO, without any empathy for the people. Instead of trying to find a compromise, he only came up with the law, prosecutors, judges, policemen making his dirty work. The massive use of police violence, injuring defenseless people with batons and rubber boots - far too much and unnecessary. Nobody in Europe would have recognized this referendum because it is unconstitutional and violates the principle of a free, secret or democratic election.

I know that the Scottish referendum is different, at first they allowed it because and overwhelming majority did not want to split from UK, but in the end it became too tight for politicians to be relaxed about it. Maybe it would have worked in Catalonia at an earlier stage, let them vote trusting they vote NO, not recognizing a YES anyway.

 

[Marengo]

Thanks for the additional information DoM Indeed, both sides have been using people as pawns. The difference of course is that the Catalan government did not use force while the Spanish government did. Images of state thuggery will do nothing to improve the position of Madrid. This kind of violence is rare in our part of the world and thus rather shocking. We even saw the national police beating firemen who tried to protect demonstrators.

When you say it is in the Constitution - did the people approve the constitution in a referendum? How can the constitution be changed?

The constitution can be changed indeed, but it can only be done at a national level. A regional party, representing only a few percent of the Spanish electorate, can not change the constitution on its own. The 1978 constitution was approved in referendum, also by the people of Catalunya.

Since the Spanish constitution was ratified in 1978, it has been amended twice. It can be changed by a majority in the Cortes, though I do not know how large the majority needs to be. Seperatists are free to try to gain seats in the Cortes and work with other parties to achieve their goal.

 

[lula]

They had violence, because violence is what the Catalan independentists wanted to sell their story... everything was organized.

It is not the Spanish government who prohibits, it is the Spanish Constitution, the laws and the judges who have declared that this was an illegal activity.

A judge of a court in Catalonia, has been who ordered days ago that polling stations should be closed and voting avoided.

It was the Catalan government who encouraged families to lock up with their children in schools to prevent the court order being enforced, and some have reported in the press how they were instructed to confront the police (there are allegations in the public prosecutor's office for this use of children). It was the police dependent on the Catalan government who did not comply with the order of the judge (they are also reported in court for not doing their job), forcing the Spanish police to act. That police did not act by direct order of the Spanish government, acted like judicial police by order of a judge of a court of Catalonia.

The millions of Catalans who yesterday decided not to participate in this lie are not heard, and the independence government seems to continue committed to non-complying with Catalan, Spanish and international law.

It is not strange that they boo the King, he represents the Spanish State, the enemy. The Catalan government controls education, and children have been educated in hatred of Spain... many families must struggle because their children are not allowed to study in Spanish. In Catalan television they insult the Royal Family and Spain constantly. The Catalan independents burn flags of Spain and photos of the King and nothing happens.

It is also true that all this has also had a reaction in the rest of Spain. Millions of Spaniards have taken their flag to the balcony, something that until now was only usual in sporting events. In the last public events of the king, he was accompanied by cheers and many flags of Spain.

Many Spaniards are tired, for decades Basque and Catalan independentist have gained benefits threatening to organize things like these. By the electoral system, their votes are worth more than the votes of other regions of Spain. They increasingly have more independence, more concessions, more money (in the end it was always solved with more money)... and the rest of Spaniards have to shut up.

They demand rights that are above the rights of the rest of Spaniards, they do not comply with the law that the rest of the Spaniards are obliged to comply with.

They pretend to impose the opinion of 2 million Catalans, to the 3 million who did not participate in this and that of almost 40 million Spaniards .

In order to change the most important articles of the Spanish Constitution, it is necessary that 2/3 of the Parliament approve it, and that these changes be submitted to the vote of all Spaniards. No political party, no government can change the Constitution if most of the Spaniards disagree.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Spanish National Day Celebrations 2017 will be one to watch seeing as what happened in Barcelona yesterday.

Little wonder there are no official acts this week.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I think to go in front of the cameras to say 'there was no referendum' and talk about law and police and justice when looking at people being beaten bloody is as deluded as to say 'we have won the referendum and will have our own state'.
Nobody seems to learn anything. The scenes were horrible, I saw on TV this morning a man holding a flower up to a policeman and he was hit straight into the face. Excessive force will lead to nothing, as we can see in many examples before.
There has to be a compromise of some kind, we'll see what role the King can play.

 

[Mirabel]

I think to go in front of the cameras to say 'there was no referendum' and talk about law and police and justice when looking at people being beaten bloody is as deluded as to say 'we have won the referendum and will have our own state'.

I agree.

And frankly, I don't see why Catalans should not be allowed such a referendum.
It's fine to say well, it's due to the Constitution, but from what I have read, it would be a labor of Hercules to get the Constitution changed.

In effect, Catalonia is being held prisoner, and that seems very wrong.

 

[Mbruno]

When you say it is in the Constitution - did the people approve the constitution in a referendum? How can the constitution be changed?

Yes, the Spanish constitution was approved in a referendum in 1978. A constitutional amendment has to be passed by a qualified majority of three-fifths of the members of each of the two houses of Paraliament, Once an amendment is passed by Parliament, it is submitted to a national referendum for ratification if so requested by at least one tenth of the members of each house.

In other words, Catalonia cannot unilaterally declare its independence under the constitution, but , to put matters in context, Scotland couldn't do it either under the British constitution. Nevertheless, the UK government agreed to let Scotland hold a legally non-binding referendum, upon which, if the result had been a majority for secession, the UK and the Scottish governments would enter into negotiations for an orderly separation that would then be properly ratified by the UK parliament.

 

[Mbruno]

AFAIK Cataluña was never an independent country. I do not see why every province and region in Europe should gain independence.

I suppose the Netherlands should revert then to Spanish rule. After all, it had never been independent before the 16th century and its unilateral declaration of independence in 1581 (?) was clearly illegal, wasn't it ?

Now, seriously, Catalonia was part of the Kingdom of Aragon, which entered into personal union with the Kingdom of Castile in the late 15th century, but remained a separate kingdom until the Bourbon king Philip V issued the Nueva Plantas decrees between 1707 and 1716. So, in a sense, you can say Catalonia, together with other parts of Spain, was once independent.

As for the future of the monarchy, I am afraid that, if Catalonia leaves and becomes a republic, the rest of the country will soon descend into republicanism as well.