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  #581  
Old 04-07-2013, 07:45 AM
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I've said it in another thread, what is the alternative for a monarchy? The parties are not interested in changing the constitution at all because their own shortcomings might be exposed by an elected Head of State. There is so much nepotism going on and it's convenient to have the royals who take the heat or deflect with the nice pictures etc from the parties' problems.

Question is, do the royals want to spend their lives being looked at like zoo animals as cash cows for the media, take the heat for political shortcomings or be bullied or booed at by the public?

In general, I don't see Spain so much as a monarchy but rather as a republic whose Head of State happens to be a monarch.

Spaniards used to be Juancarlists and I dont see where all the Felipistas should be coming from. So its basically a stillstand for the countrie's development, you might end up with a monarch who is more or less tolerated but not popular because the system proves unchangable.

The Spanish weren't even able to change the constitiution in order to have the firstborn as King or Queen, unlike other European countries, very embarrassing in the 21st century, where men and women are supposed to be equal.
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  #582  
Old 04-07-2013, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post

Spaniards used to be Juancarlists and I dont see where all the Felipistas should be coming from. So its basically a stillstand for the countrie's development, you might end up with a monarch who is more or less tolerated but not popular because the system proves unchangable.
From El Pais:
Quote:
This credit plummeting citizen now also affects the figure of the King: a novelty as disturbing as untimely. For nearly three decades, King Juan Carlos took systematically in the top listings such citizen evaluation. With case Noos (which came to be added the unfortunate trip to Botswana) the degree of detachment, and even angry citizen, with the head of state has not only grown, especially in the case of younger (including King evaluative balance has now been in a spectacular -42). Are you at risk the monarchy? Rather it seems to be producing a rapid replacement of the hitherto dominant juancarlismo for Felipismo thriving.


Indeed, the wear of image that is hurting the King (which increasingly seems less easily reversible) is presented together with a good basic stability assessment citizen deserves the Prince Philip, who in this wave of Barometer gets a balance +28 (-13 against the King: 41 points away). In addition, seven out of 10 citizens believe that Philip is already sufficiently prepared to exercise fully guaranteed as head of state, and a similar proportion believes that Don Juan Carlos should set a date-not far-to hand it down. All this, of course, while it is recognized and appreciated, by an ample majority formidable mode that King has operated for so many years and so complex. It is an open question whether, at some point and in case of referral, this wear-now controlled by the Crown, may also end up affecting the figure of the Prince.
Objetive points.
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  #583  
Old 04-07-2013, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by ANNIE_S View Post
Fresh news about new polls:

Support for the King falls, especially among the young.
The Prince has an aproval rating among citizens well above his father.

article:
Traductor de Google
And the Prince's approval rating is falling as well, just not as dramatically as his father's and despite the fact that he did not provide any scandals.
This does indeed not look good for the monarchy in Spain.
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  #584  
Old 04-07-2013, 08:53 AM
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Are there reliable numbers about the percentage of Spaniards supporting the monarchy?

While I have no doubt that Felipe has become more popular than his father, is this in general or only among those people who are pro-monarchy anyway?
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  #585  
Old 04-07-2013, 08:57 AM
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The first poll is divided between PP (conservative) voters and PSOE (liberals) voters, also between ages.

The results are very different if you look at each group.
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  #586  
Old 04-07-2013, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANNIE_S View Post
And more:
Traductor de Google

About the Monarchy/Republic debate: Traductor de Google

This last article strenghten my personal opinion that, if the Monarchy wants to continue being the political system in Spain, the King must abdicate soon. If things continue like they are they´re now, we´ll see many more articles like this one in the next months.

Things are changing very fast, I think.
Thanks for all your links and updates Annie,I really hope the king and royal family can overcome this very turbulent period and maintain the Spanish Monarchy.

These are very difficult and drak days for the Spanish Borbóns,things are not looking good but I can't see any benefit in swapping a King for a President right now for Spain!
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  #587  
Old 04-10-2013, 02:47 PM
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Even the Economist raises the question of an abdication:

At a recent royal dinner for international Olympic officials attended by our correspondent, the king, Princess Cristina and her sporting husband (an Olympic handball double-medal winner) were conspicuously absent. Prince Felipe, standing in for his convalescent father, was self-assured and knowledgeable on the day's topic. He is obviously prepared for the job. But will his father stand down?

... conspicuously absent ...

Europe's royal families: Should the Spanish king abdicate too? | The Economist
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  #588  
Old 04-10-2013, 04:17 PM
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Thanks for "The Economist"´s article, Avicenna
I´m so tired of reading the same old, same old from the Spanish media, but it´s always interesting learning how they´re talking about it in other countries.
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  #589  
Old 04-10-2013, 04:26 PM
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I would read that as "boring article about some boring officials - how can I spice it up and get some interest?"

as for conspicuously absent - I thought JC was still recovering from his back operation, and (generally speaking) I thought that Inaki and Cristina lived and worked in the US and would not necessarily have been there.

Were they invited, expected and failed to turn up or is this more journalese.
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  #590  
Old 04-10-2013, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
I would read that as "boring article about some boring officials - how can I spice it up and get some interest?"

as for conspicuously absent - I thought JC was still recovering from his back operation, and (generally speaking) I thought that Inaki and Cristina lived and worked in the US and would not necessarily have been there.

Were they invited, expected and failed to turn up or is this more journalese.
Cristina & Inaki returned to Spain last summer, because Inaki wanted to prepare for his likely trial / Telefonica wanted him to take a break.
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  #591  
Old 04-14-2013, 12:02 PM
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Not a good news... According to news reports, thousands of people protest in Madrid against monarchy and want their state to turn into republic, even Russian news reported this.
Multitudinaria marcha por la III República en Madrid
Maybe someone from Spain could report the facts better.
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  #592  
Old 04-14-2013, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Avicenna View Post
Even the Economist raises the question of an abdication:

At a recent royal dinner for international Olympic officials attended by our correspondent, the king, Princess Cristina and her sporting husband (an Olympic handball double-medal winner) were conspicuously absent. Prince Felipe, standing in for his convalescent father, was self-assured and knowledgeable on the day's topic. He is obviously prepared for the job. But will his father stand down?

... conspicuously absent ...
This is a classic hyperbole by Economist.
Come on, any person who underwent a recent surgery will be absent, and so will be any couple facing court charges.
And when a King is absent, for whatever reason, it will obviously be "conspicuous".
And any Crown Prince standing in for the monarch will obviously be "self-assured and Knowledgable" about that day's topic.
And any heir working full-time for over a decade will obviously be "well-prepared" for the job.
These are the most natural things, which dont even need a specific mention.
But simply highlighting them a lot and then hinting at abdication is just ridiculous..
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  #593  
Old 04-14-2013, 12:19 PM
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Not a good news... According to news reports, thousands of people protest in Madrid against monarchy and want their state to turn into republic, even Russian news reported this.
Multitudinaria marcha por la III República en Madrid
Maybe someone from Spain could report the facts better.
I fear for Spain not just the monarchy but the country as a whole.
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  #594  
Old 04-14-2013, 12:27 PM
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The monarchy doesnt fall because of one demonstration but it is no surprise that it is easier to "blame" the monarchy rather than the politicans or be realistic about the situation they are in.

I'm not very knowledgeable about Spanish politics but from what I have read recently the real risk is that in losing the monarchy, Spain as a single entity could be lost as the regions strive for independence. And all that would mean is that for the sme population there would be even more government costs and no economy of scale.

So I agree with Royalistbert - it doesn't look good for the country


Question - how many people were in that demonstration?
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  #595  
Old 04-14-2013, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Multitudinaria marcha por la III República en Madrid
Nothing to fear ...for the moment.

the april 14 is the annual spanish republican concil. There is the same demonstration every year. It's hardly a spontaneous protest !!
The only thing is that they were a bit more than usual this year.
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  #596  
Old 04-14-2013, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
The monarchy doesnt fall because of one demonstration but it is no surprise that it is easier to "blame" the monarchy rather than the politicans or be realistic about the situation they are in.

I'm not very knowledgeable about Spanish politics but from what I have read recently the real risk is that in losing the monarchy, Spain as a single entity could be lost as the regions strive for independence. And all that would mean is that for the sme population there would be even more government costs and no economy of scale.

So I agree with Royalistbert - it doesn't look good for the country


Question - how many people were in that demonstration?
According to this French news site, more than 8 000 people .
Espagne : des milliers de manifestants demandent une république - Le Point
Spain: thousands of protesters demand a republic - The Point
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  #597  
Old 04-14-2013, 01:40 PM
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8000 isnt many. We've had demonstrations and marchs in the UK in the past running into 100,000's and governments haven't fallen.

Nico quote: the april 14 is the annual spanish republican concil. There is the same demonstration every year. It's hardly a spontaneous protest..."

These are the "already converted" - its when more people join the republican movement it might get interesting.

Also, the media in the Uk do cover worldwide news and the problems within the SRF regarding the corruption case have been mentioned by the BBC, Times, Telegraph etc. This protest hasnt been mentioned at all. The focus at the moment is Portugal's economic woes and the coach crash in Belgium that killed 5.
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  #598  
Old 04-14-2013, 01:58 PM
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Nico is right. 14th April is the anniversary of the II Spanish Republic proclamation (the II Republic lasted from 1931 to the Civil War in 1936).

It´s the day that the republican movements do mobilizations. It happens every year. But this year, there are more people than usual (nothing we couldn´t have guessed, on the other hand).
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  #599  
Old 04-14-2013, 02:21 PM
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As discussed, 8000 isn´t that much.
Given the last 12 months news and scandals, it is not really surprising, whereas I do not see a drama here - yet.
Annus Horribilis for Spain, but things will change as well..... so let´s wait and see, what the next 12 months will bring.
BYe Bine
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Old 04-14-2013, 02:53 PM
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Euronews report in English about protests:
Marchers call for new Spanish republic | euronews, world news
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