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  #301  
Old 09-27-2007, 06:18 PM
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But Letizia is the weakest link, and because of it easier open to criticism. The perfect family and the imperfect Letizia ... it is not credible. They all have their negative things and commit their mistakes.

This week, a journalist was commenting that if she should to support what the Princess has supported, she should become mad. The change of life, the pressure and the critique for the critique up to reaching the most absolute of the absurdities. And nevertheless, she has taken it with enough strength, up to in the worst moments. It is the whole mental process, to manage to separate what indeed matters, of what it is a demagoguery to do business. For a person who is developing well her role, which criticizes her for stupidities or invented rumors, it must be frustrating, more when it spreads to the persons that you love.

Often I doubt that other members of the Royal Family could bear this pressure without losing the nerves.

Last week I read several commentaries in press, of persons who had had the opportunity to speak with the Princess (several in the act of the Community of Madrid), and from these commentaries, one was coming to the conclusion from that though they were speaking to her about inconvinient or troublesome topics, she was capable of measuring up to talk of topics serious and from the absurd polemics taking with humor or irony. To come to this point is something marvellous for she.
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  #302  
Old 09-27-2007, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by lula View Post
This week, a journalist was commenting that if she should to support what the Princess has supported, she should become mad. The change of life, the pressure and the critique for the critique up to reaching the most absolute of the absurdities. And nevertheless, she has taken it with enough strength, up to in the worst moments. It is the whole mental process, to manage to separate what indeed matters, of what it is a demagoguery to do business. For a person who is developing well her role, which criticizes her for stupidities or invented rumors, it must be frustrating, more when it spreads to the persons that you love.
I agree with you, Lula. I have always thought that she is and has been extremely strong to withstand all the stuff that she has had to withstand due to a confluence of factors in Spain that are really beyond her control. And I have always admired her for this as well as all her other positive qualities.
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  #303  
Old 09-28-2007, 04:56 AM
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But Letizia is the weakest link, and because of it easier open to criticism. The perfect family and the imperfect Letizia ... it is not credible. They all have their negative things and commit their mistakes.

This week, a journalist was commenting that if she should to support what the Princess has supported, she should become mad. The change of life, the pressure and the critique for the critique up to reaching the most absolute of the absurdities. And nevertheless, she has taken it with enough strength, up to in the worst moments. It is the whole mental process, to manage to separate what indeed matters, of what it is a demagoguery to do business. For a person who is developing well her role, which criticizes her for stupidities or invented rumors, it must be frustrating, more when it spreads to the persons that you love.

Often I doubt that other members of the Royal Family could bear this pressure without losing the nerves.

Last week I read several commentaries in press, of persons who had had the opportunity to speak with the Princess (several in the act of the Community of Madrid), and from these commentaries, one was coming to the conclusion from that though they were speaking to her about inconvinient or troublesome topics, she was capable of measuring up to talk of topics serious and from the absurd polemics taking with humor or irony. To come to this point is something marvellous for she.
I am not spanish so this is just an outside opinion. As far as Letizia is concerned, I don't believe she is a decisive factor for survival or downfall of the monarchy. It's a much bigger picture, something like JC guided the country into democracy and now the monarchy has fulfilled its mission and outlived its purpose.

Back to Letizia, the problem for me is that she was - much much stronger than in any other monarchy - forced into a certain role and personality, defined by Zarzuela, and miles apart from who she obviously was, a self determined career woman. As a consequence, at least for me, she is lacking her own personality as her role is now reduced to being Felipe's accessoire and giving birth to children, denying her assets and own responsibilities and this definition of her role makes her an easy target for critizsm of all kinds.

People can hardly see what she is capable of and why she would be a good Queen, because until this day she hardly does any visible work. We can assume that she is involved in Felipe's work but do we know? I wonder how she feels about being treated like a child and her every move being controlled by Zarzuela as if they had not the slightest confidence in her abilities when she's on her own. For me, Letizia simply is the wrong person in the wrong place at the wrong time - something that's beyond her control and that went all the right way for Maxima, who - with a similar background (hard working career woman) became the strongest asset of the Dutch monarchy, simply because she was allowed to stay herself.
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  #304  
Old 09-29-2007, 04:41 AM
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Duke and Philippe: thanks a lot, you expressed things much better than I ever did
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  #305  
Old 09-30-2007, 07:27 AM
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ABC.es: opinion - la-tercera - Con el Rey, con la Constitución
IN ORDER to know the nature the attack against the King and Corona it is enough with identifying to those who head it: fanatical and separatist extremists. Of which it is deduced that the attacks to the King and the Institution that incarnates are it, in fact, to the own Constitution and the State and, really, Spain, whose unit and permanence represent and symbolize Don Juan Carlos and, in the future, Prince de AsturiasTaking advantage of the antimonarchical offensive untied these days, the speaker has gotten to say that "the best thing is than the King abdicated in the Prince". In his persistence to disqualify to Don Juan Carlos he has gotten to accuse to him of not being with the victims of the terrorism. Immediately, very significant voices of this group have answered to him reaffirming the inexhaustible support that Don Juan Carlos has contributed to them in all these years of sufferings. As referential testimonies as


ABC.es: nacional - nacional - Pinza radical contra el Rey

Even, foreign historians as the North American Spanish scholar Stanley Paine has detected the campaign beginning in our country. The own Payne warned a year ago from the University of Georgetown on the risks of the "new Spanish republican movement", headed in its opinion by the extreme left and some sector of the PSOE. However, the republican right has wanted to take advantage of this antimonarchical offensive to obtain its objectives, because it does not pardon to Corona the dismantling of the Francoism with which that right maintained a situation privileged.
The foreign press, in general, has followed until now expectant the Spanish reality, to the margin of any campaign, with the exception of the British newspaper "The Times", property of Rupert Murdoch (of whom is advisor the ex- president of the Government, Jose Maria Aznar), that the past August published an article with attacks to the King. The same journalist who seven months before had interviewed to the bloodthirsty ETA member Of Juana Chaos during his hunger strike, a journalistic practice very questioned, published a information under the title "the popular King who squashed a coup d'etat loses the support of his subjects". Without endorsing this affirmation in no sounding, the newspaper was limited to gather the declarations of the senator of the PNV Iñaki Anasagasti and the Secretary General of ERC, Joan Tardá, two known republican
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  #306  
Old 10-01-2007, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Back to Letizia, the problem for me is that she was - much much stronger than in any other monarchy - forced into a certain role and personality, defined by Zarzuela, and miles apart from who she obviously was, a self determined career woman. As a consequence, at least for me, she is lacking her own personality as her role is now reduced to being Felipe's accessoire and giving birth to children, denying her assets and own responsibilities and this definition of her role makes her an easy target for critizsm of all kinds.
If Letizia's role is the problem, then that is something that Zarzuela is to be blamed for, not the lady herself.

Just out of curiousity, when other Royal ladies attend functions with their husbands, are they merely "accessories" as well? Or is that a "privilege" for Letizia only?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade
People can hardly see what she is capable of and why she would be a good Queen, because until this day she hardly does any visible work.
If people want to see what she is capable of they need only look at her extensive and impressive CV. Letizia has proved, more so than some of the other CP's, that she is more than capable of achieving.

As for "visible work", she attends the most events of all the CP's, as her schedule is one of the busiest. She does exactly what Felipe does, except he sometimes makes a speech. She meets the same people, participates in the same conferences and shows the same amount of dedication. More importantly though, she has often done so under much more difficult circumstances.

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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade
We can assume that she is involved in Felipe's work but do we know?
Well Felipe has himself confirmed she is heavily involved with his work and often helps with his speeches.

How much more confirmation in needed?

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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade
I wonder how she feels about being treated like a child and her every move being controlled by Zarzuela as if they had not the slightest confidence in her abilities when she's on her own.
Judging from the numerous photos, both at work and in private, provided on this forum she seems to have no problem with her role.

It never ceases to amaze me how easily people are willing to dismiss the work Letizia does, purely because she often does it with her husband at her side.

None of the CP's work "alone" in the truest sense, all have advisers, assistants, some have Ladies -in-waiting etc. Ultimately they have masses of help and preparation before each event and often are noly required to show up, smile, wave and perhaps mingle with the public.

How is that any different to Letizia?
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  #307  
Old 10-01-2007, 11:28 AM
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Probably the problem, it is that Duke does not read the suitable information, there is numerous news of press, of newspapers, which refer to the attitude of the Princess in the acts to that she comes with the Prince. Commentaries on how she takes part in the acts, her nearness, her conversations, the informed well that is of the topics that treat, what she asks, her worry for attending to the whole peolpe, or the good memory that has to remember information and persons.

Often in the articles of press, these things are commented. It is true that the majority they are in Spanish, and in this forum already can´t be write the complete translations.
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  #308  
Old 10-01-2007, 11:51 AM
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[quote=Little_star;673612]
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If Letizia's role is the problem, then that is something that Zarzuela is to be blamed for, not the lady herself.
Exactly, I have never blamed her.
Quote:
Just out of curiousity, when other Royal ladies attend functions with their husbands, are they merely "accessories" as well? Or is that a "privilege" for Letizia only?
No, you are right. All of them are accessoires when being with their husbands = heirs. They are the ones who are important. The difference with Letizia is that she's the only CP who is reduced to this accessoire role as all others have more or less their own fields of activity and their own profile, just to name Maxima, Mathilde, Mette Marit etc.

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If people want to see what she is capable of they need only look at her extensive and impressive CV. Letizia has proved, more so than some of the other CP's, that she is more than capable of achieving.
I totally agree - and what has become of it after marriage? It's such a waste not to make use of her assets.

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As for "visible work", she attends the most events of all the CP's, as her schedule is one of the busiest.
You are right no question about her schedule being one of the busiest but assisting Felipe is not the kind of work I referred to earlier.

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She does exactly what Felipe does, except he sometimes makes a speech. She meets the same people, participates in the same conferences and shows the same amount of dedication.
I don't agree here. No way she does exactly what Felipe does. He's the heir, must be in the drivers' seat, does the speeches, the important talking, prize presentation etc. Letizia is there to assist and do small talk, that's her role and all other female CPs do the same, but not ALL THE TIME. This is what I critizise. There are fields of interest that she could occupy such as journalism and media, very suitable and different from the usual children's issues, mostly occupied by Queen Sofia and the Infantas.

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More importantly though, she has often done so under much more difficult circumstances.
It's true but life is life, other royals suffer blows as well and they have to deal with it too. She dealt with it gracefully but that must be it.

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Well Felipe has himself confirmed she is heavily involved with his work and often helps with his speeches.
How much more confirmation in needed?
Oh, well, Felipe confirmed then it must be true not so sure as royals work as much on their image as celebrities do. Regarding Felipe's speeches, I doubt he does any of them himself, as most other royals. People from Zarzuela's staff will do it for him while he can give input or do some editing. Keeping that in mind, I wouldn't overestimate Letizia's influence on Felipe's speeches. I said earlier that I assume that Letizia is involved in Felipe's work but if it's "heavily" or not I still don't know. Besides, if a certain press writes things in favour it might as well be exaggerated as if a certain press writes things in disfavour. Don't know how people feel in Spain but I don't believe too much of what the papers write, no matter what source, at least here in the UK.

Quote:
Judging from the numerous photos, both at work and in private, provided on this forum she seems to have no problem with her role. It never ceases to amaze me how easily people are willing to dismiss the work Letizia does, purely because she often does it with her husband at her side.
I don't know if she has a problem with her role or not although I don't believe that Letizia knew from the beginning how much restriction it would include. She's probably fine with her role but only because she knows there is nothing she can do about it. Please remind me of an event where Letizia did the work / was in charge with her husband by her side. Whenever I see them it's the other way around and this is how it should be at the vast majority of the events. All I am wondering about is why Letizia is not allowed to have her own field of interest where she can be in charge. It's just natural as she has the appropriate knowlegde and assets.

Quote:
None of the CP's work "alone" in the truest sense, all have advisers, assistants, some have Ladies -in-waiting etc. Ultimately they have masses of help and preparation before each event and often are noly required to show up, smile, wave and perhaps mingle with the public.

How is that any different to Letizia?
Totally agree. The difference is an own profile. All other ladies are able to represent their royal houses on their own, in an own field of interest. Of course they have all the help as you stated above - Letizia would have the same assistance - but I find it important for a CP who will be Queen to have her own respected personality and stand for a field of interest that represents her personality and background.
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  #309  
Old 10-01-2007, 12:02 PM
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I think Zarzuela wants to enhance the importance of Filipe (future King) and the submission of Letizia.
Of course Zarzuela has all the blame, they want things like that!
She doesn't seam involved in Filipe's work, if she is involved she should show that to the public, but again IMO Zarzuela doesn't let her speak to mucht in order not to superimpose Filipe's work!
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  #310  
Old 10-01-2007, 12:50 PM
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Yes, I blame Zarzuela for not allow her to be part of the official activities, and I think it is beacause they don't want Princess Letizia overshadow her husband, an it is so stupid, in that way People never gonna have a idea of the princess work, nethier Respect her, I think King JC has the fault, he distributes the activities for all the people in CR, and I don't know why He doesn't give princess Letizia some activities, in my opinios is sooooooooooooooo selfish from the kING.
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  #311  
Old 10-01-2007, 08:54 PM
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I don't agree here. No way she does exactly what Felipe does. He's the heir, must be in the drivers' seat, does the speeches, the important talking, prize presentation etc. Letizia is there to assist and do small talk, that's her role and all other female CPs do the same, but not ALL THE TIME. This is what I critizise. There are fields of interest that she could occupy such as journalism and media, very suitable and different from the usual children's issues, mostly occupied by Queen Sofia and the Infantas.
Felipe has been working hard to raise his media profile, which is a must for him since in Spain media (not including the yellow press) and politics are so tightly together. So he and Letizia share the media sector together, I see it very appropriate, good for Felipe, thus it's good for Letizia since her destiny is certainly tied to his. I think you put too much importance on who is reading a speech from a piece of paper.
My observation, Letizia takes on children's acts, Felipe on business, they share the media, culture/language sectors. But I do like seeing her having more acts related to children. Hillary Clinton used to work for the Children's Defense Fund. I don't think children's issues are degrading anyone's intellectual capacity, it really depends on what you are actually doing.
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  #312  
Old 10-01-2007, 10:51 PM
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Just read spanish media these days, there are some really interesting articles around...

Estrella Digital*28/09/2007*-*OPINIÓN:*¡Larga vida a Su Majestad!
La España sin pulso que Ibarretxe ha puesto en evidencia - elConfidencial.com
La Entesa solicita que el presidente sustituya al Rey como jefe del Ejército | España | Accesible | elmundo.es
Dios salve al Rey (de algunos monárquicos) · ELPAIS.com


There are other great articles, but you have to have the login to be able to read them, if anyone is interested, please PM me

The press is on fire right now and that's something the latest El Jueves' cover shows:

http://estaticos01.cache.el-mundo.ne...91252421_0.jpg

Let's see what happens now
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  #313  
Old 10-02-2007, 04:35 AM
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You have reason, there are many articles, hundred. Personally I prefer not placing any, because the choice of some or others can give a vision different enough from the topic.

A little while ago a journalist defining this situation like a circus, circus that only has an end the elections of March. This is not a serious debate, they are groups of radical or persons of extreme ideas who have found a way of being made notice. And they all enter the circus, because it is an element of confrontation politics and because it gives pull to the press. And later, there are the million Spanish who have moderate positions, and that believe that there are things that matter more, that this "circus" that is going to go to no place.

On the topic of the King and the Army, it is one more, the Catalan or Basque nationalists are expert at promoting things that know that they are not going to take place, or in promoting processes that move away from the legal thing. There are million Spanish who live in another zones of Spain and are bored of these histories.

Later there are absurd things, if in an act there are 200 applauding and 10 protesting ... it is news this 10. Because ultimately it seems that those who do more mess, which create scandal, or even they break the laws ... they deserve more advertising. In the last weeks, and as response to these protests voices of support go out every day to the Monarchy, civilized voices, which defend their opinions with the word, but that like they do not burn anything they are not interested so much . Politicians, bishops, businessmen (the included Catalans), victims of the terrorism, military, syndicalists ...

But ultimately, this type of situations believe uncertainty in most of the population, that what wants is that the State, the Institutions and the politicians do their work, and that stop creating these "circuses" that ultimately slightly positive contribute the citizens.

Only the time will say in that this finishes, if really it damages to the Monarchy of a serious form, or ultimately it produces the opposite effect.
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  #314  
Old 10-02-2007, 05:51 AM
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[quote=donnaK;673826]
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I think you put too much importance on who is reading a speech from a piece of paper.
Doing a speech is a statement, people can see what you stand for or what your opinion or view on a certain topic is and the speeker will find himself or herself in the center of attention. I find it a huge difference in terms of public acknowledgement if Felipe does the speech with Letizia sitting there and listening or the other way around. If it wasn't important why would Zarzuela take so much care that Felipe does the speeches, even in Letizia's fields of interest?

Quote:
But I do like seeing her having more acts related to children. Hillary Clinton used to work for the Children's Defense Fund. I don't think children's issues are degrading anyone's intellectual capacity, it really depends on what you are actually doing.
I am with you, no disrespect meant regarding children's issues. It's important and a great topic to occupy and that's what most Queens or CPs do. But what I would like to see is a topic that comes along naturally, because it either reflects the background or a special interest. It gives a CP her own profile, respect and credibility because she knows what she's talking about and is personally involved. I can't think of one CP who does not occupy such a topic these days - there are plenty of examples (it's another question what topics are more important than others so I'll leave it here ). I find it sad that Letizia is not allowed to do the same as she could easily find a suitable topic for herself, be it journalism or media or even related to her own tragic experience, the death of her sister Erika.
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Old 10-02-2007, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Little_star View Post
Just out of curiousity, when other Royal ladies attend functions with their husbands, are they merely "accessories" as well? Or is that a "privilege" for Letizia only?
No they're not and letizia is much more than mere accessory but only because we know she is smart, pretty and wears good outfits. if she was ugly, fat and stupid we wouldnt even notice her.

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If people want to see what she is capable of they need only look at her extensive and impressive CV. Letizia has proved, more so than some of the other CP's, that she is more than capable of achieving.
a cv doesn't mean that much. a person can have a great cv and doesn't fit royalty. same logic: someone can be a great royal and be stupid in professional life. you can't compare a cv with royal performances. be a good jourlaist doesn't implie you'll be a good queen...

Quote:
As for "visible work", she attends the most events of all the CP's, as her schedule is one of the busiest. She does exactly what Felipe does, except he sometimes makes a speech. She meets the same people, participates in the same conferences and shows the same amount of dedication. More importantly though, she has often done so under much more difficult circumstances.
exactly. she does the same felipe does, shes not adding anything new. i believe arab queens are more participating in public acts than letizia.

Quote:
Well Felipe has himself confirmed she is heavily involved with his work and often helps with his speeches.
how do you know she often help him with his speeches?
you see maxima talking about micro-credit, you see mary creating a foundation you heard mette marit talking about childrens problems. what about letizia?
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  #316  
Old 10-02-2007, 08:58 AM
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The Princess of Asturias already has begun to develop her own activities linked to the infancy. And her activities will continue increasing with the passage of time. Though the priority has been and is different.

Every Royal House decides since the things have to work, for the Princess of Asturias her country must be the priority, must know her country, the institutions, the social organisations, have contact with all the areas of the society ... and the best way of doing it, is to do it next to her husband. The certain thing is that the Prince, with the exception of any military or managerial acts does not have acts he only either. At this moment, that the Princess has a global vision of Spain, and that the people perceive to the Princes as an team that works for the country ... it is more important for the Royal House, that the Princess develops a charitable activity. This activity that she has started developing linked to the infancy, will be growing with the time.

For the present time, the Princes have an intense enough agenda. The own Princess has commented that her intention is to know diverse organizations and projects that had presenting her, but that until she does not have time to interfere in a serious and active way in one of them, is not going to promise with any.
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  #317  
Old 10-02-2007, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Doing a speech is a statement, people can see what you stand for or what your opinion or view on a certain topic is and the speeker will find himself or herself in the center of attention. I find it a huge difference in terms of public acknowledgement if Felipe does the speech with Letizia sitting there and listening or the other way around. If it wasn't important why would Zarzuela take so much care that Felipe does the speeches, even in Letizia's fields of interest?
It's important for Zarzuela because of the protocol, the formality, Felipe being the heir; it's not so important for some since the speech is still read from a piece of paper, the real substance is the contents. Indeed, media is the interest of Letizia, but it can also be the interest of Felipe. I remember Felipe mentioned that if he were not the heir to the throne, he would have wanted to be a journalist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I am with you, no disrespect meant regarding children's issues. It's important and a great topic to occupy and that's what most Queens or CPs do. But what I would like to see is a topic that comes along naturally, because it either reflects the background or a special interest. It gives a CP her own profile, respect and credibility because she knows what she's talking about and is personally involved. I can't think of one CP who does not occupy such a topic these days - there are plenty of examples (it's another question what topics are more important than others so I'll leave it here ). I find it sad that Letizia is not allowed to do the same as she could easily find a suitable topic for herself, be it journalism or media or even related to her own tragic experience, the death of her sister Erika.
She does share the media sector with Felipe. There is no proof that the children's topic didn't come naturally for her. I can't imagine Hillary was interested at children's issues by simply looking at her.
There were too many rumors on Erika's death. One rumor was that the family denied that Erika died of depression.
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Old 10-02-2007, 09:55 PM
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a cv doesn't mean that much. a person can have a great cv and doesn't fit royalty. same logic: someone can be a great royal and be stupid in professional life. you can't compare a cv with royal performances. be a good jourlaist doesn't implie you'll be a good queen...
All those Cpsses are playing the roles the royal houses want them to play. They are not the Queens yet. The time they become the Queens, they will have to run the royal household, work ethic and intelligence will come to play more. For Letizia, likely she will have more freedom to play her Queen's roles since the boss will be her husband, not her father-in-law.

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exactly. she does the same felipe does, shes not adding anything new. i believe arab queens are more participating in public acts than letizia.
Not true. Since the marriage, their engagements yearly (under normal circumstance) inside Spain has trippled compared to Felipe's single days. Lots of invitations were for both, not just Felipe.

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Originally Posted by Myriam View Post
how do you know she often help him with his speeches?
It has been mentioned by Felipe, at the media too. Over the years, Felipe had always been the person who liked to alter the speeches, sometimes he even completely rewrote the speeches, that had made Zarzuela nervous at times. Considering Letizia's journalist background, it doesn't surprise me that they work at the speeches together. Anyway, both are detail persons, perfectionists at work, in a sense they are quite alike at work, perhaps that's why they enjoy working together.
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Old 10-03-2007, 09:28 AM
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Demonstrators protest against the Spanish monarchy outside the inauguration of a Barcelona book fair by Spain's Prince Felipe and Princess Letizia, 02 October 2007. Spanish prosecutors on Tuesday today 15 months' jail for two Catalan separatists who burned photos of King Juan Carlos and his wife Queen Sofia earlier this month.

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Old 10-03-2007, 02:17 PM
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that the people perceive to the Princes as an team that works for the country
People's perceptions differ. For some people, it looks less like "teamwork" and more like "follow the leader." Some of that is naturally in play with Felipe being the heir and Letizia the consort, but it's tricky to try to establish a "team image" with a "she's not good enough to do things by herself" strategy.

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The own Princess has commented that her intention is to know diverse organizations and projects that had presenting her, but that until she does not have time to interfere in a serious and active way in one of them, is not going to promise with any.
She couldn't promise with anything even if she wanted to. Surely her lack of involvement isn't due to lack of interest. Like someone else mentioned, she's got her role to fill like all of the other Crown Princesses so she'll be "serious and active" when Zarzuela tells her that she can be "serious and active." No different from any of the other houses.

People keep mentioning her CV, but what good is a CV full of things that you did four, five, six years ago when you aren't being given the freedom to use those skills independent of your husband? For all of the talk of what's done "behind the scenes," there comes a time when some evidence of that ability needs to be shown in public. That's why it's a good thing that she is finally getting a few opportunities to do things without Felipe at her side. Zarzuela is the problem not Letizia, but she is the one that their decisions reflect upon.
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catalonia, future of the monarchy, juan carlist, juan carlos i, royalist, spain, spanish nobility, spanish royal family


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