Restoration of Monarchy in Portugal


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fearghas said:
In a democracy the head of state should be chosen by the people.
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Actually in some democratic republics in Europe such as Germany and Italy the Head of State is not elected by the people but by the parliament, but as you said anyone (not really, you'll always need to make the right political choices and right connections) in a democratic republic could be president.
 
tdarlene said:
Actually in some democratic republics in Europe such as Germany and Italy the Head of State is not elected by the people but by the parliament, but as you said anyone (not really, you'll always need to make the right political choices and right connections) in a democratic republic could be president.
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In Germany the Presdient is not elected by the parliament but by a special Assembly of People which are the members of Parliament and the same number of people send by the federal States (they don't have to by members of the federal parliaments but can also be Sportstemn or other, for example Bavaria has also send Fürstin Gloria of Thurn und Taxis at last once).
 
fearghas said:
One thing that will always work against a monarchy in a democratic country is that the position is decided by birth. In a democracy people are taught that they could be anyone, a president for instance, but if I'm born into the wrong family I can never be King. In a democracy the head of state should be chosen by the people.
That is why monarchy is on the outer at the moment. And I think monarchists who also believe in democracy will always struggle with this. Hence why you have the different ty[es of monarchists that you mentioned.
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When you look at the list of the most democratic nations you will find an awful lot of monarchies. Power lies with the people through Parliament. The people elect their governments and therefore the Head of Government and the monarch remains as Head of State, a symbol of the nation above politics.
 
A Monarchy can be more democratic than a republic, especially with a neutral head of state, but most people do not see that they think of Monarchy as absolute rule and Tyranny. The only way to ever have a serious thought of the restoration in Portugal or any other country is to make the people less ignorant on the topic of monarchy.
 
NGalitzine said:
When you look at the list of the most democratic nations you will find an awful lot of monarchies. Power lies with the people through Parliament. The people elect their governments and therefore the Head of Government and the monarch remains as Head of State, a symbol of the nation above politics.
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I agree that there is that contradiction where there are really democratic countries with monarchies (I think of the Scandanavian countries as a good example) but it is still a powerful arguement in favour of republicanism.
 
jonc93 said:
A Monarchy can be more democratic than a republic, especially with a neutral head of state, but most people do not see that they think of Monarchy as absolute rule and Tyranny. The only way to ever have a serious thought of the restoration in Portugal or any other country is to make the people less ignorant on the topic of monarchy.
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This is what I neglected to mention, that there is this idea that a monarchy is about autocracy. I think that for Portugal this will be a hard sell
 
jonc93 said:
A Monarchy can be more democratic than a republic, especially with a neutral head of state, but most people do not see that they think of Monarchy as absolute rule and Tyranny. The only way to ever have a serious thought of the restoration in Portugal or any other country is to make the people less ignorant on the topic of monarchy.
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I doubt there is anyone in Europe that thinks of monarchy as an absolute rule and tyranny. I think you have either wrong century and/or continent. The main argument against monarchies is the succession. It may be democratic to chose to have a monarchy but that gets very touchy when the issue of succession is brought up. It is simply not democratic to have a system where the head of state is born to the position. So the blending of the traditions of monarchy and a democratic society is surviving because the tradition and culture is woven into the fabric of peoples lives and associations with their country's history. With each generation that association becomes weaker and eventually the idea of a monarchy will simply not make any sense. Whether it will happen at the next change in regent we will just have to wait and see. We may see another generation or two of royal regents but my guess is that would be the maximum.
 
@fearghas: If I may speak freely, a Republic isn't more or less democratic than a Monarchy. You need to study each case, and obtain a conclusion. If I grab Saudi Arabia and Venezuela - goodness me, I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

I believe that it's up to each nation and its population to decide what regime suits their needs, history, culture, traditions, etc better.

For 21 years I lived in Portugal - and I lived 1 year in Spain. And I tell you - both of the nations are equally democratic. And guess what - one's a Republic and the other one's a Monarchy.

And that argument is much like a trap, honestly. I'm not in a political party - so I would never EVER be able to become President, even if I wanted to. That's why the Republic is severely crippled - the President attaches himself to a party. The King on the other hand, is guarded - through the "incovenience" of being a member of the Royal Family - from political lobbies, interests, etc. And he clearly has a long-term vision regarding government policies, contrasting with that of a President, which has a limit of 4, and with some luck, 8 years. And the King wouldn't make an idiot out of himself, by pushing himself forward to an election, where he promises things everyone knows he doesn't have the powers to comply (I call all Portuguese here to remember the last Presidential campaigns which were utterly ridiculous).

A King, a Prime-Minister, a Parliament and a Constitutional Court. All powers and institutions - the State and Portuguese people represented in its perfection.
 
Davids I am a monarchist and agree with everything you said, except for one thing. IN a democratic republic, if we followed the right course you or I could be Head of State, the possibility is there, no matter how unlikely. In a monarchy unless we were born into the right family we would never be able to. And that is the crux of the arguement against monarchies and one that cant be argued against in our fashion for meritocracy. Why should someone, who just happens to be born to a certain set of parents have an inalienable right to be Head of State and no one else.
 
fearghas said:
Davids I am a monarchist and agree with everything you said, except for one thing. IN a democratic republic, if we followed the right course you or I could be Head of State, the possibility is there, no matter how unlikely. In a monarchy unless we were born into the right family we would never be able to. And that is the crux of the arguement against monarchies and one that cant be argued against in our fashion for meritocracy. Why should someone, who just happens to be born to a certain set of parents have an inalienable right to be Head of State and no one else.
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Because that is how monarchy works and if a country by democratic means have chosen to be a monarchy than that is how the position will be passed on.
 
grevinnan said:
I doubt there is anyone in Europe that thinks of monarchy as an absolute rule and tyranny. I think you have either wrong century and/or continent.
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Many people who live in rural parts of Portugal and other European Countries who are not very educated do believe Monarchy to be the King as head of state with all the power vested in him, I know as I am from there...
 
Causa Real is an association of monarchists that promotes, defends the idea of monarchy in Portugal. Sometimes per year they are all together (or some of them) to discuss issues related to the insitution and others. That meeting is called Congresso =congress
 
julliette said:
Causa Real is an association of monarchists that promotes, defends the idea of monarchy in Portugal. Sometimes per year they are all together (or some of them) to discuss issues related to the insitution and others. That meeting is called Congresso =congress
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Do you know how many members there are
 
Are you asking about the number of people that belong to Causa Real or the number of people that usually attend the crongress?
In any case, I don't know any of the numbers, sorry. But there are for sure many more members that people in Portugal may imagine.
Causa Real is constituted by 11 Reais Associações (Royal Associations). Each Real Associação can represent a city (in case of Lisbon or my city Viseu) or a region (like Baixo Alentejo) depending on the number of members and other criteria. If you want to be a member of Causa Real you have to contact the nearest Real Associação. I searched on their website and couldn't find information about the number of members but here (LINK) you have a list of the people who belong to the governing bodies and you see that's quite a lot of people.
Not all the members attend the congress of course. I actually think only a few of them do. Perhaps people from the governing bodies and not more
 
julliette said:
Are you asking about the number of people that belong to Causa Real or the number of people that usually attend the crongress?
In any case, I don't know any of the numbers, sorry. But there are for sure many more members that people in Portugal may imagine.
Causa Real is constituted by 11 Reais Associações (Royal Associations). Each Real Associação can represent a city (in case of Lisbon or my city Viseu) or a region (like Baixo Alentejo) depending on the number of members and other criteria. If you want to be a member of Causa Real you have to contact the nearest Real Associação. I searched on their website and couldn't find information about the number of members but here (LINK) you have a list of the people who belong to the governing bodies and you see that's quite a lot of people.
Not all the members attend the congress of course. I actually think only a few of them do. Perhaps people from the governing bodies and not more
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Thank you. Do you or anyone for that matter have a statistic on how many people are in favor of a monarchy?
 
Well, my monarchist friends keep telling me about a poll made some years ago that concluded that around 10% of the people were in favour of the monarchy, around 10% were in favour of the republic and the other 80% didn't care about if we lived in a republic or a monarchy. I could never find that poll nor any other so I'm not sure if these numbers are reliable.... Perhaps other portuguese members here know about other statistics
 
I met Prince Bertrand recently (also styled, like his brother, as His Imperial and Royal Highness). He seemed to me to be a most agreeable and benevolent soul much dedicated to Tradition in Faith and Society. When I mentioned the current socialist Brazilian president and his friend in Venezuela, Chavez his charming and gracious countenance was at once changed to anger. He was obviously no friend of theirs which is a good thing from my point of view since I too tend to be counter-revolutionary. Does anyone here know where I might find good, reliable information on D. Luiz, D. Bertrand and their relations. Thank you so much!

" HI&RH D. Luiz - Or Louis - has two big problems:

1-He´s a very ill man: At the childhood, he lost the motion of a leg and couldn´t even go to her mother burial - He had a big crisis.
2-HI&RH D. Luiz, as his brother D. Bertrand is member of a secret society called "Evergreen". The marriage isn´t allowed among them. it´s a group closed to the "catholic" brazilian elite. I could make a post about them..."[/QUOTE]
 
I wonder will he get much attention or support?
 
What do the polls say about the number of those who support Monarchy in the country?
 
Polls? I don't remember any serious poll being done in this issue for many years. I've heard some monarchists talking about a poll once made which resulted in 10% supporting monarchy and 10% supporting republic with the rest being indifferent. But, to be honest, I never "saw" the results of that poll. Anyway, the general idea I have is that monarchists are in a bigger number than most people think but the majority of the people doesn't care about this issue.
 
I think that the Portugese are very proud about their history and immense patrimonium. They take great efforts and pride in that. Yesterday we saw how President Cavaco Silva received the Spanish guests with a stunning grandeur. The acknowledge the role which was played by the House of Braganca in their history. They do that by respecting the position of the Duke of Braganca. And that is it. I don't think the Portugese want to go further than that. So no restoration of the monarchy indeed.
 
julliette said:
Polls? I don't remember any serious poll being done in this issue for many years. I've heard some monarchists talking about a poll once made which resulted in 10% supporting monarchy and 10% supporting republic with the rest being indifferent. But, to be honest, I never "saw" the results of that poll. Anyway, the general idea I have is that monarchists are in a bigger number than most people think but the majority of the people doesn't care about this issue.
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Yes. I think that was never made a serious poll on the subject.
Also I think there's more to monarchists than people think. And there are also people who are indifferent about the matter.

Another question, are people who doubt the rights of d. Duarte as head of the Portuguese Royal House...
 
Blog Real said:
Another question, are people who doubt the rights of d. Duarte as head of the Portuguese Royal House...
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Is there any other serious claimant? The current Braganca branch of Dom Duarte Pio is the only one left.
 
There is no other serious claimant. There have been some other pseudo-claimants but they've never been credible, most monarchists didn't take them seriously and the rest of the population didn't even noticed they exist.
 
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