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  #321  
Old 02-21-2016, 01:51 PM
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So the goverment could decide to cancel the earmarked apanage? But they won´t. That should come from QMII or PH himself - and I don´t see that happen either ...
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  #322  
Old 02-21-2016, 02:00 PM
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The government is not going to cut PH's apanage by say 50%. That is simply not going to happen.
But the DRF might be "advised" to cut his apanage by 50% or allocate the money from PH to the rest of the DRF, after all they are standing in for PH.

It depends I guess. If PH is in the tantrum-mode, he may go ballistic if he see his allowance being halved - with all the family-trouble that ca lead to.
If PH's health is deteriorating, then the money may go to nurses keeping an eye on him 24/7. And that's expensive!
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  #323  
Old 02-21-2016, 02:02 PM
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Exactly, the whole issues could be sorted by saying that from now on 10% of what the Queen gets won't be earmarked for Henrik specifically. It wouldn't change the amount the Queen gets but just mean Henrik isn't entitled officially to 10% of it now he has given up his official role.
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  #324  
Old 02-21-2016, 02:06 PM
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Yes, tommy100, that was what I tried to say :) Thank you for saying it in a better way I must come here more often to kkep my English up to date
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  #325  
Old 02-21-2016, 02:14 PM
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[QUOTE=Muhler;1865371]Originally QMII got the entire apanage and that also covered expenses for PH. I.e. a secretary, a valet, transportation and clothing. There is after all a limit to how big a personal staff he needs.
The adjutant and drivers were covered either by the court or the military.

Anyway, PH complained that he found it bit humiliating to have to go and ask his wife for money, whenever it was needed. He preferred his own funds. Okay, fair enough, so it was decided that 10 % of the total apanage would be earmarked for PH and from that he could pay whatever expenses he had and still has./QUOTE]

Thank you. I had a vague recollection that I knew this.

If PH hadn't gotten his earmarked apanage, the money would have gone to QM anyway. That's why I think his apanage, or part of it, could go back to the QM, but not to the Danish "coffer".
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  #326  
Old 02-21-2016, 02:21 PM
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This situation has has certainly brought to the forefront various attitudes towards the concept of royalty, and by that I mean different attitudes within the DRF itself. Queen Margrethe, in her actions and words over the years, clearly thinks being royal is a fundamental part of who she is, and will be until she dies. Henrik, OTOH, seems to feel being royal is something he does - a job, the way other people are teachers or lawyers or police officers, etc.

The nice part about a job is that technically you can quit whenever you want, (especially if you're wealthy and don't have to worry about keeping a roof over your head), and when you get older you can retire and leave it all behind. The not so great part about a job is that if you stop doing it for whatever reason you generally stop getting paid!

I've always admired Queen Margrethe's work ethic and devotion to her role. I also think she's a smart, practical woman who realizes her family has a pretty nice set up for themselves because of an understanding between the royals and the Danes regarding how royalty behaves. Hopefully Frederik and Mary have a similar understanding and pass it down to Christian.
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  #327  
Old 02-21-2016, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by FasterB View Post
So perhaps PH doesn´t and will not suffer physically from dementia, "only" memory/intellectual wise. And THAT I believe is something we see with his constant "I want to be king." The court can´t control him/his disease anymore. It´s been in the pipeline with the flu at QMII´s birthday as the drop that maked the glass run over.

Perhaps a better phrase is: Senile dementia
But dementia is a physical condition. It is a progressive deterioration of the brain and it affects memory, thinking, language, understanding, and judgment. Eventually it affects movement and the ability to speak and swallow. If the person lives long enough, the deterioration in brain function will eventually cause their body to stop working completely. But it can take over ten years to reach that stage.

And it can take a long time to diagnose because in the early stages the afflicted person's behaviour can change very slowly, and the symptoms can be consistent with a number of things. In the early to moderate stages the person can live a relatively normal life as long as they have people around to watch them constantly, and indeed they can take great pleasure in life. It's only when they are left on their own that they get into trouble because, for example, they have forgotten how to make a cup of tea. Apparently that simple task actually involves several brain processes, and if the brain isn't working they way it should, those processes are interrupted and the afflicted individual will stand in the kitchen staring at the cupboards having no idea what to do next. And they might call their house a boat. But they are friendly and happy and can hold a conversation and enjoy their meals someone else cooks for them. And, of course, there is the safety issue of hotplates and gas being left on, etc.

People with moderate stage dementia can even function in an ostensibly normal manner even though they have forgotten precisely who you are. Not what your name is, just who you are in relation to them. You can, for example, take them out to an agricultural show and be sitting with them watching the woodchopping and having an ostensibly normal conversation with them and then they suddenly drop a clanger like, "That old woman I'm living with, that I call Mum, why does she have our mother's dressing table?" And they are deadly serious, and you are left feeling very unsettled for a few days, until they say or do something that unsettles you even more. Which they will, you can bet on that.

So I have no trouble believing that Henrik could - I stress "could", since we don't know - have early stage dementia and still be able to enjoy travel very much, as long as he has people with him who are familiar to him and who can keep an eye on him and make sure he has what he needs, when he needs it.

And if he does indeed have this condition, it was best that he retire now. For everyone's sake. If. There are a lot of ifs.
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  #328  
Old 02-21-2016, 05:25 PM
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I don't know but I'm starting to think he's just a grumpy old man.


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  #329  
Old 02-21-2016, 10:34 PM
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Out of respect for the long time dedication to his role and Henrik's age, I think the on going apanage should be discussed at the hightest level - affording the most dignity.
There should not be ambiguity.
A royal, like any other person, should be able to retire at old age with full expectation that their independent financial benefit is reasonable.
Their position needs to be stated, known and secure. Differing situations would mean different outcomes of course and they should be tabulated. Suspicion or judgement of the older person could be allayed.
No one knows with what hand one will be dealt at old age but privacy, freedom and dignity should be paramount.
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  #330  
Old 02-21-2016, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by King of the Jungle View Post
A royal, like any other person, should be able to retire at old age with full expectation that their independent financial benefit is reasonable.
.
Prince Henrik is hardly a struggling senior. He'll live in luxury for the remainder of his life, but it's not appropriate for him to continue to receive taxpayer funded money when he no longer intends to work on behalf of Denmark.
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  #331  
Old 02-22-2016, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post
Prince Henrik is hardly a struggling senior. He'll live in luxury for the remainder of his life, but it's not appropriate for him to continue to receive taxpayer funded money when he no longer intends to work on behalf of Denmark.
I think it depends on the "HOW" its done. If PH was Prince Philip, nobody would even think about cutting his apanage, even at the age of 80, when he cites old age, being tired etc etc for the reason to quit. Everybody understands and its ok to have an old man keep his "pension".

But Henrik didn't do that. He retired or was retired by his wife for unspecified reasons and is travelling the world now on never ending vacation. That is not supposed to be the attitude of a consort in the concept of royalty where the key word is "duty". Henrik has been very non-sensitive all his life towards issues like this and that is why I think it is fair to have a discussion about his apanage. Shoving his attitude into peoples faces is wrong and does harm to the monarchy. I hope those who have advised or been advised on Henrik to retire will again advise or be advise to cut his apanage to a reasonable amount.
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  #332  
Old 02-22-2016, 02:53 AM
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Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post
Prince Henrik is hardly a struggling senior. He'll live in luxury for the remainder of his life, but it's not appropriate for him to continue to receive taxpayer funded money when he no longer intends to work on behalf of Denmark.
It is usual for Senior Public Servants to have known retirement benefits, commensurate with their rank and service. They don't have to prove popularity and have a compliant nature.
No one would suggest giving an ex Prime Minister less because he had a higher wage and entitlements while in office. No one would expect a teacher to forego retirement payments if they happen be heir to a wealthy fortune nor if they were to win Tattslotto.
I am suggesting that there should be sensitive thought and good planning so that there is no uncertainty for Royals and the public.
Denmark seems to have a knee jerk way of reacting to divorce and now retirement payments for the DRF.
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  #333  
Old 02-22-2016, 04:52 AM
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It's a common misunderstanding that the apanage is the royal's salary. That is not the case.
The apanage is to cover the expenses of the individual royal (in QMII and Frederik's case the whole court) including "salary".

Now if we look at the info in this post: Costs, Income, Fortune and Expenditures of the Danish Royal Family
And apply them to PH. Then we can roughly assume that one fifth of PH's apanage constitute his salary.
Okay PH receive roughly 8 million DKK. One fifth of that is roughly 1.5 million DKK, that's not a lot for a man in his position, but he doesn't pay taxes, including vat.
And apart from a secretary and a valet he doesn't need to pay for additional staff. The driver, cleaners, cooks, footmen, advisors and so on are paid for by the court as a whole and that's QMII responsibility.
Nor does he need to pay for the upkeep of the palaces, furnishing, equipment, heating and so on.
The only expenses he has is travel expenses for his staff, including food and hotel bills and other day-to-day expenses.

Let's be generous and estimate that the salary for his valet and secretary working full time constitute 500.000 DKK each, including basic salary, overtime, insurance, pension, vacation and so on. That's one million DKK

Okay, PH apanage is 8 million DKK.
Minus salary: 1.5 million DKK.
Minus staff: One million DKK

As far as I can figure out that leaves roughly 5.5 million DKK for additional expenses, including travelling. - Keep in mind that PH according to this estimate is only paying for himself out of his own pocket. At reduced prices because he is not paying vat.

5.5 million DKK - for what? Now that he has officially retired.
So either some of that money is channeled back to QMII to cover the general expenses of the court or - What? Going into the piggy-bank?
The piggy-bank will soon be bursting!

To put it into perspective: For 5.5. million DKK after tax Mrs Muhler and I could live a very comfortable middle class life for eleven years. Without working. And if we didn't eat caviar more than once a week, we should easily be able to stretch that to fifteen years. (Including two brand new suitcases and tents for our children, so they have a good start in life... This estimate is for two adults).

So IMO a 50 % cut in PH's apanage is not unreasonable. I just believe the money should be transferred to QMII and not the state coffer.
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  #334  
Old 02-22-2016, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
And apart from a secretary and a valet he doesn't need to pay for additional staff. The driver, cleaners, cooks, footmen, advisors and so on are paid for by the court as a whole and that's QMII responsibility.


Let's be generous and estimate that the salary for his valet and secretary working full time constitute 500.000 DKK each, including basic salary, overtime, insurance, pension, vacation and so on. That's one million DKK

Okay, PH apanage is 8 million DKK.
Minus salary: 1.5 million DKK.
Minus staff: One million DKK
.
I think PH has a surprisingly big staff. Especially now that he has retired

"HANS KONGELIGE HØJHED PRINSGEMALENS HOFSTAT
Hofchef Michael Nellemann
Sekretariatschef, major Nils Nykjær
Sekretariatsfuldmægtig Olivier Lesenecal"



Up until early January, he had 4 people working for him. A clerk has disappeared from the list. I really don't understand why he has his own Chief of Court.
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  #335  
Old 02-22-2016, 05:16 AM
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Indeed. And that is just the administration, a valet and probably an additional secretary is not included.

The members of PH staff won't be unemployed. They'll be offered a new job within the state administration. That's part of the perks of being a state employee, certainly at this level.
But what are they otherwise going to busy themselves with now? I don't think they are particularly overworked as it is. So there has to be cuts in the staff and that is perhaps an ongoing process?

A Chief of Court is the daily manager, so that the royal doesn't have to be concerned with the day to day running of the court. That's useful in case the royal can't count to twenty without taking off his shoes. After all not everyone has administrative or leadership skills.
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  #336  
Old 02-24-2016, 10:49 AM
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According to the FrederiketMary blog, Henrik is in France resting up from his Egyptian trip. ''The Danish Prince...rests currently in treatment, at the Sofitel Biarritz.'' The 'treatment' part may be a quirk of the online translator - but if you want to rest and recover that's a pretty nice place to do it.
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  #337  
Old 02-24-2016, 12:28 PM
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I saw that too, wonder if its true.
Since Frederik is regent this week I wonder too if the Queen is with him
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  #338  
Old 02-24-2016, 12:34 PM
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I saw that too, wonder if its true.
Since Frederik is regent this week I wonder too if the Queen is with him
I doubt that. She usually go to Norway at this time of year.

ADDED: Wonder if PH will show up for the gala dinner? Or the welcoming at the airport, alternatively Fredensborg?
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  #339  
Old 02-24-2016, 06:04 PM
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Why does PH retirement bother me? I don't mean personally but it just seems selfish to me. Every time I see the Queen attending thing by herself, it bothers me. I know it's none of my business and I'm sure they have it all worked out between themselves but it still bothers me
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  #340  
Old 02-24-2016, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Rebafan81 View Post
Why does PH retirement bother me? I don't mean personally but it just seems selfish to me. Every time I see the Queen attending thing by herself, it bothers me. I know it's none of my business and I'm sure they have it all worked out between themselves but it still bothers me
It bothers me too:) I'm not Danish, so not sure why it should! For me it's because he has made such a stink about not being King Henrik, and I can't help but think his retirement has to do with that. I could be wayyyyy off base.
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