The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #1521  
Old 06-15-2017, 02:08 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,024
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I think that David's love for Wallis was more of a self serving love than anything else. He had an emotional obsession with Mrs. Simpson that he just could not let go of. Wallis enjoyed every minute of it in the beginning as she was also self serving and whatever raised her in society suited her just fine. They suited each other so well as they both benefited from the relationship.

Their marriage, when it did happen, suited them both. Frick and Frack and two peas in a pod without a care in the world except for if it affected them and their lifestyles. A superficial life isn't rewarding for most people but was the perfect setting for David and Wallis.
I would say lots of people are happy with a superficial life. But with regard to David, I think that he did love her, and I don't quite see how it is self serving, except in terms that he got her to marry him and thus provided himself with a wife who was there all the time. That fulfilled his needs.. and perhaps he subconcsiously was looking for a way out of being king.
I think she was not TOO happy with the marriage, there were times when she got fed up with his clinging cloying adoration.. and she had at least one relationship with Jimmy Donahue that was emotional if not physical -. I think she grew closer to him as time wnet on but for a long time he was the one who kissed and she offered the cheek...
and boht of them were indeed selfish and didn't really want to do much other than enjoy themselves...
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #1522  
Old 07-06-2017, 11:28 AM
eya eya is online now
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: -, Greece
Posts: 8,456
Photograhs seen The then Prince of Wales who was travelling in the Royal carriage during a visit to Australia in 1920 when the train suddenly derailed.


Edward VIII: Photographs show royal escaping train crash | Royal | News | Express.co.uk
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #1523  
Old 07-06-2017, 01:44 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 4,479
The train was going very very slowly due to a cow on the line.
Reply With Quote
  #1524  
Old 07-08-2017, 05:24 PM
duchessrachel's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Birmingham, United States
Posts: 279
Ziegler's official biography

I am about 100 pages into Philip Ziegler's biography "King Edward VIII" Oh my goodness!!! Prince Edward (late Duke of Windsor) is the biggest complainer. I want to scream "Man up, will you!!" I just had to vent and I knew all of you would understand. Nevertheless, I can't put the book down.
Reply With Quote
  #1525  
Old 07-08-2017, 06:33 PM
AdmirerUS's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 4,950
Quote:
Originally Posted by duchessrachel View Post
I tried to delete this and repost it, but it is not letting me delete it. Thus, there are two of the same post, this one and the one below.

I am about 100 pages into Philip Ziegler's biography "King Edward VIII" Oh my goodness!!! Prince Edward (late Duke of Windsor) is the biggest complainer. I want to scream "Man up, will you!!" I just had to vent and I knew all of you would understand. Nevertheless, I can't put the book down.
I quite agree. And from most bios, most credible accounts. Spoiled. Ill informed. Lacking curiosity. Demanding toadyism. And it is quite like watching a car crash happen - you don't want to watch but cannot turn away. In many ways, I always found her to be the better functioning adult.

And, to be clear, I never think of him as evil or bad. Just indulged and believing that was the natural order of things. His steadfast love of her is always what redeems him, IMHO. It really is an awesome, if tragic love story.
__________________
The Force is my tiara.
Reply With Quote
  #1526  
Old 07-09-2017, 05:31 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,024
His love for her? Mostly IMO dependence and very sad and pathetic. And I think that while he adored her, she did not reciprocate..
Reply With Quote
  #1527  
Old 07-11-2017, 01:50 AM
eya eya is online now
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: -, Greece
Posts: 8,456
A letter written by Edward VIII foreshadowed his abdication 17 years before he was crowned King.

Edward VIII letter FORESHADOWED his abdication 17 years before he was crowned King | Royal | News | Express.co.uk
Reply With Quote
  #1528  
Old 07-11-2017, 03:45 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 4,479
The tenor of the letter doesn't surprise me at all. It follows the usual form of David's communications to Freda Dudley Ward in the years following World War One. Moaning about the Royal round and his life generally, complaining about having to be away from his true love, supercilious about the people he met whom he thought disagreeable for the most part.

Edward actually was made for the self indulgent, pointless life he and Wallis lived after the Second World War. What an eye opener living in a small house in 1919 with wife and kiddies, having a dreary nine to five job and allowing about five shillings a week pocket money out of his wage to spend on himself, would have been, and how lucky he was not to have experienced it. That is, if he hadn't been killed in the trench warfare of 1914-18 beforehand.
Reply With Quote
  #1529  
Old 07-11-2017, 04:07 AM
Osipi's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 8,957
I believe that David actually saw a "normal" life to be idyllic and a true freedom much like many people today gaze upon the lifestyles of the rich and famous and believe their lives would be so much better if they could live like them. The old "grass is greener on the other side of the fence" concept. He saw all the advantages that would relieve him of the disadvantages he saw in royal life but had no concept of the hardships, the struggle of day to day living and the total difference of society outside of the circles he frequented.

Even after the abdication, David very much disparaged at how they were treated. Instead of being relieved that he could live his life as he chose to, he whined about the lack of money, the lack of a HRH for his wife and the fact that he was no longer necessary in the UK. He got his other side of the fence somewhat and once again, the grass was greener back where he was to begin with.

He was typically the sort of person that wanted his cake and eat it too.
__________________
“In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him.”
~~~Ralph Waldo Emerson~~~
Reply With Quote
  #1530  
Old 07-11-2017, 02:09 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,024
well I'm sure most of us are like that. I don't greatly like David but I would hardly say that whinging about one's job, or feeling that life would be beter if one had a differet job or life or more money/less money etc is hardly unusual.
He saw the disadvantages of fame and fortune. Those of us who work hard for a meager lving might well think "If I only had some of that fame and fortune.."
Reply With Quote
  #1531  
Old 07-11-2017, 09:22 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 4,479
Yes, of course people yearn for more or less than what they have sometimes. And that's the operative word, Sometimes. However, most of us don't keep at it constantly for years and years and years.

It's been a long while since I read a book that was published that was full of David's letters to Mrs Dudley Ward, but as far as I can remember it was about 95% full of his moaning about his lot.

If it was just letting off steam to his lover and confidante it would be different but there were other letters, other reminiscences from friends and acquaintances and members of his staff etc that show that whining about his Royal role, the tours of the Empire, the people he met on engagements, his parents particularly his father, etc, were part of his nature.

David may not have been nervy, as the Duke of York was, but he was a great deal more dissatisfied with his life than any other member of his family and that included the King his father, who had far greater responsibilities.
Reply With Quote
  #1532  
Old 07-12-2017, 01:50 AM
Osipi's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 8,957
The more I read, the more I am inclined to believe that David was the original role model for "Party Prince". Its what he did best.

You're right, Curryong, in remembering that Ziegler's biography has loads of the letters he wrote to Mrs. Dudley Ward and that they were constantly filled with bemoaning his state of affairs and how unhappy he was with them. There was a lot of moaning and groaning about just about everything. Its almost as if this person focused more on the negative things of life rather than the positives and was always wanting things to be different.

With reading the *huge* Shawcross biography of the Queen Mum now, during the first years of her marriage to Bertie, her letters are different and filled with how amazing she has found some things to be (such as going on safari) and I hadn't realized before that at that time, Elizabeth and Bertie were really quite fond of David and close with him and very often stepped out for the evening with him. Three really good friends. I haven't gotten up to the part about Wallis and the abdication yet but if what I've read so far is any indication, it will contain some really good insights into how it affected these three people personally.
__________________
“In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him.”
~~~Ralph Waldo Emerson~~~
Reply With Quote
  #1533  
Old 07-12-2017, 02:17 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 4,479
Yes, from Shawcross and everyone else I've read about the Queen Mother, she was always very much a zesty, 'cup half full' sort of person. I'm sure all three were marvellous friends. However, from what I've read the Yorks saw much less of Edward after the romance with Wallis became serious.

The book I was referring to in my earlier post was one solely made up of letters to the (IMO) long suffering Freda Dudley Ward in the 1920's and a little before. I think it was 'Letters from a Prince: Letters from Edward Prince of Wales to Mrs Freda Dudley Ward' edited by Rupert or Robert Godfrey.

I think they were found by a relative of Mrs DW and made up into a published book. I remember starting it with great anticipation, but fair dinkum, if I wasn't a history buff, and it didn't contain new info and photos I probably wouldn't have finished it! The letters, (mostly from him AFAIR) were a mixture of whining and complaining and baby talk of the most nauseating kind!
Reply With Quote
  #1534  
Old 07-12-2017, 02:31 AM
Osipi's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 8,957
Oh sheeesh. I hated that baby talk. Maybe he thought it was cute but in reality it was nauseating. I think I'm going to give the letters book a miss but then again, it may nag at me until I actually buy it and read it. Any insight is good insight in getting the whole picture.
__________________
“In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him.”
~~~Ralph Waldo Emerson~~~
Reply With Quote
  #1535  
Old 07-12-2017, 04:27 AM
Queen Claude's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: USA, United States
Posts: 503
I am a much bigger admirer of George V than David / Edward VIII / Duke of Windsor but vis a vis David, George V was the father from hell turned boss from hell. To be sure David was a whiner but he was awesome at the public side of a job that he hated, questioned the relevance of and for which he got no recognition or validation from his boss and yet the boss would not hesitate to direct nit-picky criticisms his way.

IIRC during that timeframe David occasionally shirked his duties, and again whined a lot, but overall he took on the work he was given and, in numerous ways, did an exemplary job and contributed significantly to the BRF "brand" during the 1920s and early 1930s.
Reply With Quote
  #1536  
Old 07-12-2017, 05:16 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 4,479
Yes George V terrified his sons. However he directed harsh criticism towards all of them, not just David. And it's true that the Prince of Wales was THE glamorous figure of the Royal family between the wars and performed his public role well.

Privately and behind the scenes however, Edward really was an absolute disgraceful person, even by the very different standards of the earlier 20th century.

Fractured Fairy Tale: An Archive of a Royal Romance - The New York Times

'What I wouldn't give to chuck in this P of W. job. I'm so fed up with it you know and don't fit in.'

From his letters to Freda: any woman paying him attention is 'a bitch'.
Beggars in India are 'the scum of the East' (though he pays attention to them in order to annoy his handlers.)
Prince Regent Hirohito of Japan is 'a prize monkey', the Chinese 'breed like rabbits' and the Maltese are 'the worst dagoes possible'.

Now I'm sure some of Edward's views were unfortunately shared by others at the time, but here is the future Governor of the Church of England's opinion on taking Communion---'Sentimental sordidness.'

According to this article some of Freda's missing letters back to him probably included exhortations to buck up, to cheer up, to take on worthwhile charities she was interested in. One certainly hopes so!
Reply With Quote
  #1537  
Old 07-12-2017, 02:19 PM
duchessrachel's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Birmingham, United States
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
The more I read, the more I am inclined to believe that David was the original role model for "Party Prince". Its what he did best.

You're right, Curryong, in remembering that Ziegler's biography has loads of the letters he wrote to Mrs. Dudley Ward and that they were constantly filled with bemoaning his state of affairs and how unhappy he was with them. There was a lot of moaning and groaning about just about everything. Its almost as if this person focused more on the negative things of life rather than the positives and was always wanting things to be different.

With reading the *huge* Shawcross biography of the Queen Mum now, during the first years of her marriage to Bertie, her letters are different and filled with how amazing she has found some things to be (such as going on safari) and I hadn't realized before that at that time, Elizabeth and Bertie were really quite fond of David and close with him and very often stepped out for the evening with him. Three really good friends. I haven't gotten up to the part about Wallis and the abdication yet but if what I've read so far is any indication, it will contain some really good insights into how it affected these three people personally.
I just finished the Shawcross book. It is really good. I too was really surprised at how close Elizabeth, Bertie,and David were early on. I am currently reading the Ziegler book.
Reply With Quote
  #1538  
Old 07-12-2017, 03:04 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,024
I didn't exactly think of David as a party lover per se. I think he liked "home life" as well, lazy life of course, just hanging out with his girlfriend and her kids a lot of the time. I think he worked fairly hard at his job as Prince in his youth, even if he was getting more and more fed up with the job as time went on, and he was always spoiled and selfish. but I didn't see him as a wild partier.. I got the feeling that at least when married to Wallis, his parties were formal dinner parties and balls, of course by then he was a bit old for coke sniffing or dancing the Black Bottom.
Reply With Quote
  #1539  
Old 07-13-2017, 09:45 AM
Furienna's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Örnsköldsvik, Sweden
Posts: 1,339
Not that I have read that book, that has been discussed lately in this thread. But I feel a need to nevertheless step in here and yet again defend David a little.

Yes, some people are "whiners". And yet again, I have not read these letters. But my gut instinct about a person, who seems to never be satisfied with anything, would be that he's deeply unhappy with his life, and maybe that he's got a melancholic disposition. And again, I can't really say if that was true of Edward VIII or not. But I leave it open as a possibility.

And as for those remarks about other cultures, that would be seen as racist today... Did you expect anything better from a person from that era, whether he was the Prince of Wales or not?
Reply With Quote
  #1540  
Old 07-13-2017, 11:15 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 4,479
Not everyone who was an adult between the wars was a racist. Yes, there was more racism about then among all classes of society but that doesn't mean that everyone should be tarred with the same brush.

I've never heard for example that Edward's brother Bertie, then Duke of York, let loose with epithets about other races. And for Edward that sort of thing didn't finish with the war.

Lilli Palmer, the actress, knew him well and the Windsors visited her and her husband Rex Harrison in Italy. She wrote in her autobiography that he was fond of labelling people 'yids' and she often heard him use the term in conversation, (she herself was Jewish) and that was in the 1950's, long after everyone knew about concentration camps, gassings etc.

I don't know whether Edward suffered from clinical depression or not. However there is no evidence that he ever sought treatment for it, nor did Wallis ever urge him to seek it.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
abdication, britain, duchess of windsor, duke of windsor, edward viii, king edward viii, wallis simpson


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Duchess of Windsor Jewellery micas Royal Jewels 210 09-03-2017 01:19 PM
The Duke of Windsor and Wallis Simpson - 3 June 1937 aussiechick12 Historical Royal Weddings 26 05-01-2015 11:42 AM
Prince Richard, Duke of Gloucester and Miss Birgitte van Deurs: 8 July 1972 Scott Royal Weddings 15 11-20-2014 10:41 AM
Books on The Duke and Duchess of Windsor Duchess Royal Library 106 07-15-2013 11:49 AM
The Duke and Duchess of Gloucester Current Events 1: October 2003-January 2006 A.C.C. Current Events Archive 132 01-13-2006 09:37 PM




Popular Tags
albania best outfit birthday carl gustaf chris o'neill crown princess mary crown princess mary fashion crown princess victoria current events denmark fashion poll general news hereditary grand duchess stéphanie hereditary grand duke guillaume infanta cristina infanta leonor infanta sofia ińaki urdangarín king felipe king felipe vi king philippe letizia monarchy news november 2016 october 2016 picture of the week prince alexander prince carl philip prince charles prince daniel prince felix prince gabriel prince nicholas prince oscar princess claire of luxembourg princess estelle princess leonore princess madeleine princess mary princess mary fashion princess of asturias princess sofia princess victoria queen elizabeth ii queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen mathilde queen mathilde daytime fashion queen mathilde fashion queen maxima queen maxima casual wear queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima fashion queen maxima hats queen maxima style queen rania queen silvia state visit stephanie succession sweden swedish royal family the duchess of cambridge casual wear the duchess of cambridge daytime fashion the duchess of cambridge fashion the duchess of cambridge hats victoria


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:04 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017
Jelsoft Enterprises