The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #1361  
Old 12-10-2016, 05:11 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 7,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
[...] a King who didn't know the meaning of the word "diplomacy" and couldn't be bothered to read his boxes!
You think Queen Elizabeth II reads her boxes?

The Motor Vehicles Regulations 2016. The Value Added Tax Relief Order 2016. The Acces To Medical Treatments Innovation Act 2016. The Psychoactive Substances Act 2016. The Criminal Cases Review Commission Act 2016.

Yes, Her Majesty has read them all..., those piles of regulations.



A constitutional monarch simply goes to the dot line where he/she has to sign. After all there is a whole machinery behind him/her which ensures that every Act, Decree, Order, Warrant, letter, whatever has gone to all required steps before the Royal Assent is given.

When King Edward VIII did not read the red boxes, he had a 100% realistic view on his constitutional role: just sign.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1362  
Old 12-10-2016, 06:55 AM
muriel's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London / Guildford, United Kingdom
Posts: 7,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
You think Queen Elizabeth II reads her boxes?

The Motor Vehicles Regulations 2016. The Value Added Tax Relief Order 2016. The Acces To Medical Treatments Innovation Act 2016. The Psychoactive Substances Act 2016. The Criminal Cases Review Commission Act 2016.

Yes, Her Majesty has read them all..., those piles of regulations.



A constitutional monarch simply goes to the dot line where he/she has to sign. After all there is a whole machinery behind him/her which ensures that every Act, Decree, Order, Warrant, letter, whatever has gone to all required steps before the Royal Assent is given.

When King Edward VIII did not read the red boxes, he had a 100% realistic view on his constitutional role: just sign.
I have no doubt HM reads her red boxes.

Her boxes contain all that the government wants her to read. They do not contain every piece of legislation is full, but will contain summaries of the key provisions.

In addition to legislation, the boxes also contain briefing materials on various aspects of government: from financial matters, social policy, hiomeland security matters, foreign affairs, defence and security etc etc.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1363  
Old 12-10-2016, 07:26 AM
Lee-Z's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Heerlen, Netherlands
Posts: 2,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
You think Queen Elizabeth II reads her boxes?

The Motor Vehicles Regulations 2016. The Value Added Tax Relief Order 2016. The Acces To Medical Treatments Innovation Act 2016. The Psychoactive Substances Act 2016. The Criminal Cases Review Commission Act 2016.

Yes, Her Majesty has read them all..., those piles of regulations.



A constitutional monarch simply goes to the dot line where he/she has to sign. After all there is a whole machinery behind him/her which ensures that every Act, Decree, Order, Warrant, letter, whatever has gone to all required steps before the Royal Assent is given.

When King Edward VIII did not read the red boxes, he had a 100% realistic view on his constitutional role: just sign.
When you first joined these forums (yes, I remember it well) you're favorite queen was Q.Beatrix of the NL, who is known for being very involved in all matters put in front of her and certainly wasn't one to just sign and look pretty (to quote some of your other posts).
You tended to ridicule other monarchs (like QEII) when they did things differently than Q.Beatrix.

Does your post above mean that you have come to the conclusion that Q.Beatrix did things wrong after all?

__________________
Wisdom begins in wonder - Socrates
Reply With Quote
  #1365  
Old 12-11-2016, 04:33 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 7,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
When you first joined these forums (yes, I remember it well) you're favorite queen was Q.Beatrix of the NL, who is known for being very involved in all matters put in front of her and certainly wasn't one to just sign and look pretty (to quote some of your other posts).
You tended to ridicule other monarchs (like QEII) when they did things differently than Q.Beatrix.

Does your post above mean that you have come to the conclusion that Q.Beatrix did things wrong after all?

I have not claimed anyone doing wrong. I claim that Queen Elizabeth II does not read her red boxes. For the simple fact that only 24 hours go into a day. Reading everything in one red box is more than a full 24 hours. And the Queen gets several red boxes a week. Make your own calculation...

So when the blame is that Edward VIII did not read his red boxes: he was completely right and very wise to do so. It is an utter waste of time to read things one has to sign anyway, whether one agrees or disagrees with it. Think alone of the endless list of Birthday Honours or the appointment of an extra load of Peers into the cramped House of Lords. Really, it is just scratch, scratch and there it is: 'Edward R' (or 'Elizabeth R'). Next document.

Of course we may assume that the King -and it will not be different to his niece Elizabeth II- took care in his personal correspondance, that he indeed did read when it was about his finances or about appointments in the Household.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1366  
Old 12-11-2016, 04:49 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 7,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by muriel View Post
I have no doubt HM reads her red boxes.

Her boxes contain all that the government wants her to read. They do not contain every piece of legislation is full, but will contain summaries of the key provisions.

In addition to legislation, the boxes also contain briefing materials on various aspects of government: from financial matters, social policy, hiomeland security matters, foreign affairs, defence and security etc etc.
With all respect. The list with Acts, Decrees, Orders in Council, Statutory Rules and Statutory Instruments is endless, endless and endless. I am sure that neither King Edward nor his niece Queen Elizabeth read any of these documents and (did) trust completely on the competence of the departments that all what is laid in the red boxes can be provided the Royal Assent indeed.

I have taken the effort to look it up for you. On April 23rd this year the current Queen, a niece of Edward VIII, signed the following (just an outtake):
An Act to make provision about improved access to finance for businesses and individuals;
An Act to make provision about regulatory provisions relating to business and certain voluntary and community bodies;
An Act to make provision about the exercise of procurement functions by certain public authorities;
An Act to make provision for the creation of a Pubs Code and Adjudicator for the regulation of dealings by pub-owning businesses with their tied pub tenants;
An Act to make provision about the regulation of the provision of childcare;
An Act to make provision about information relating to the evaluation of education;
An Act to make provision about the regulation of companies;
An Act to make provision about company filing requirements;
An Act to make provision about the disqualification from appointments relating to companies;
An Act to make provision about insolvency;
An Act to make provision about the law relating to employment; and for connected purposes.



You really, really believe that Her Majesty has read one page of any of these Acts? Dream on. It is also physically impossible because she simply would run out of time when she would really read all of these documents.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1367  
Old 12-11-2016, 05:37 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 2,689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
You think Queen Elizabeth II reads her boxes?

The Motor Vehicles Regulations 2016. The Value Added Tax Relief Order 2016. The Acces To Medical Treatments Innovation Act 2016. The Psychoactive Substances Act 2016. The Criminal Cases Review Commission Act 2016.

Yes, Her Majesty has read them all..., those piles of regulations.


.
In the old footage below (from the 1990s I believe), the Queen refers to her boxes and claims to be "a quick reader".

https://youtu.be/ZDd7I8V38e8?t=28
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1368  
Old 12-11-2016, 08:33 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 7,309
Sometimes I have to replace a colleague in the company and then I have to go with the documents' book to the director. It is a thick map, sometimes three maps have to be signed in one session. Every tab is a document which needs a signature. Every tab has a 'guiding note' attached to it with a paperclip. The director almost signs every document 'blind', completely trusting on the signed initals in that 'guiding note', meaning that the organization has completed all underlying steps in the procedure.

Scratch.
Next.
Scratch.
Next. Oh, a well-wishing card.
Scratch.
Next.
Scratch.
Next.
Etc.

I am sure it is no different for the CEO of United Kingdom Ltd.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1369  
Old 12-11-2016, 04:37 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 11,112
Anyone who signs something without reading it thoroughly is a total fool. If your boss was doing than then they were an idiot as they could have been signing anything.

The boxes take about four hours, on average, to read - and the legislation doesn't take that long. I have read a number of pieces of legislation and it takes about 10 - 20 minutes most times to read each one.

That list of legislation you identified above wasn't the first time the Queen would have come across those papers as she only approves legislation 10 - 11 times a year (at the Privy Council meetings) but during the preceding months she would have read the legislation, discussed it with the PM and/or the relevant minister as well as with her private secretary.

Yes she does read all legislation and draft copies are often returned with notes in the margins from her with questions she wants explained. When I did a tour of the Houses of Parliament the guide even showed us a piece of draft legislation with those notations in the margin. She also told us that it was a good six months after that draft went to The Queen before the final form of the legislation was approved.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1370  
Old 12-11-2016, 05:02 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 9,670
Thanks so much for that in depth explanation of the process of the legislations, the Queen's involvement and notations. Its been interesting for me to read because it explains more in depth of what the job of a constitutional monarch involves. She may not influence legislation or interfere with it but she knows what is going on, asks questions that arise and then advises her PM from there.

As much as over the past 60 and some years we've heard how ingrained the sense of duty is with The Queen, I don't think she'd do any less than fulfill the whole kit and kaboodle and that would involve reading each and every paper that is sent to her for her attention. I think Charles will be even more so when it comes time to turn in his blue boxes for the red boxes.
__________________
“In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him.”
~~~Ralph Waldo Emerson~~~
Reply With Quote
  #1371  
Old 02-04-2017, 12:41 AM
Sun Lion's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,206
A very interesting article from an old magazine where the Duchess of Windsor describes the house in France known as "The Mill", where she and the Duke lived at times.

The Peak of Chic®: The Mill, Part One

The Peak of Chic®: The Mill, Part Two
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1372  
Old 02-04-2017, 12:53 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 4,917
What a fascinating look at a beautiful old property! Thank you for posting, Sun Lion. All the same, although the Duchess's interior decorating skills were much praised (and those of the designers she consulted) all I could think when I looked at some of the rooms was 'Busy, busy, busy'! Perhaps its just that I'm more used to the more minimalistic furnishings and polished floorboards look of today.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1373  
Old 02-04-2017, 02:49 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 7,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Anyone who signs something without reading it thoroughly is a total fool. If your boss was doing than then they were an idiot as they could have been signing anything.

The boxes take about four hours, on average, to read - and the legislation doesn't take that long. I have read a number of pieces of legislation and it takes about 10 - 20 minutes most times to read each one.

That list of legislation you identified above wasn't the first time the Queen would have come across those papers as she only approves legislation 10 - 11 times a year (at the Privy Council meetings) but during the preceding months she would have read the legislation, discussed it with the PM and/or the relevant minister as well as with her private secretary.

Yes she does read all legislation and draft copies are often returned with notes in the margins from her with questions she wants explained. When I did a tour of the Houses of Parliament the guide even showed us a piece of draft legislation with those notations in the margin. She also told us that it was a good six months after that draft went to The Queen before the final form of the legislation was approved.
I see you still believe in fairytales but allez... a monarchy is a sort of fairytale anyway. The Queen has practically no other role than to sanction legislation passed through both Houses of Parliament. If you believe that Her Majesty reads the whole legislation about the qualification requirements of non-EU paramedics to fill the gaps in NHS-staffing, about model calculation schemes for air pollution in the city, about the transparency of financial products offered to consumers, about the accountancy regulations for offshore firms and God knows what more, so be it.

In reality it is simply impossible for one human being to get the flood of state paperwork read. There are only twenty-four hours in a day, even for this ninety years old veteran. The red boxes are opened, the Queen signs where her signature is required. And the red boxes are closed again. Often the red boxes are already back into Whitehall the very same day, which would make Her Majesty the world record holder in how to read thousands and thousands of pages in between feeding the corgis and receiving the Ambassador of Uruguay...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1374  
Old 02-04-2017, 07:36 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is offline
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 3,407
I find it silly to believe that the Queen is being presented with the legislation just the day she has to pass it. I mean, I'm inclined to believe that the Queen doesn't read through the entirety of each piece of legislation that is passed (it looks like there's about 2,000 pieces passed a year, which does lead to a fair amount of reading). But to say she just rubber stamps it all with no knowledge of what it says is also rather silly.

It's far more realistic to think that the Queen is given a Coles notes edition of the legislation she's signing, reads that along with the briefings regarding other legislation and whatever else the government is planned.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1375  
Old 02-04-2017, 08:08 PM
Daenerys Targaryen's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: The Blue Ocean, United States
Posts: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
What a fascinating look at a beautiful old property! Thank you for posting, Sun Lion. All the same, although the Duchess's interior decorating skills were much praised (and those of the designers she consulted) all I could think when I looked at some of the rooms was 'Busy, busy, busy'! Perhaps its just that I'm more used to the more minimalistic furnishings and polished floorboards look of today.
Yes! Even though 'antiques' are out of fashion at the moment, were they in a house with a subtle monochromatic palette, lets say in pearl grey, it would be very elegant. The photos are somewhat deceptive regarding the scale of the rooms. Many look very small, until one reads the text where it says the mirror over the mantle is 10' tall.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1376  
Old 02-04-2017, 11:35 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 4,917
Yes, I suppose the photographs do deceive. However, lovely as some individual pieces of historic value are, (I'd love some of their antiques) the whole effect just looks choked to me, and sometimes clashing colours don't help.

I suppose the Duchess and her designers were aiming for a French provincial cum English country house look, but unfortunately sometimes it just doesn't hit the mark. For instance I have to admit I'm no fan of floral chintz coverings and curtains at the best of times so perhaps I'm prejudiced, but glaring chintz drapes and two different coloured floral rugs on the floor of the big hall. Really?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1377  
Old 02-07-2017, 08:04 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 714
Those decor of those rooms always has always struck me as a bit hectic. Florals and stripes and plaids and gilded furnishings; medallions and trompe l'oeil and tassels - overdone even in its era, I feel.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1378  
Old 02-08-2017, 11:08 PM
Sun Lion's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Lion View Post
A very interesting article from an old magazine where the Duchess of Windsor describes the house in France known as "The Mill", where she and the Duke lived at times.

The Peak of Chic®: The Mill, Part One

The Peak of Chic®: The Mill, Part Two

And links to magazines carrying the photos and the Duchess' words.


http://trove.nla.gov.au/aww/read/222...ge/11/mode/1up

http://trove.nla.gov.au/aww/read/222...ge/16/mode/2up

http://trove.nla.gov.au/aww/read/222...ge/18/mode/1up

http://trove.nla.gov.au/aww/read/220...ge/16/mode/2up

http://trove.nla.gov.au/aww/read/220...ge/18/mode/2up

http://trove.nla.gov.au/aww/read/220...ge/16/mode/2up

http://trove.nla.gov.au/aww/read/220...ge/28/mode/2up
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1379  
Old 02-08-2017, 11:36 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 4,917
A chef AND an assistant chef in the kitchens! My, my! No wonder the Dook, as his wife called him, was reputedly always worrying about his investments!

It's a great find, Sun Lion. Thanks for posting these great links.

As I've said, a lovely house, but...more than a bit of hankering for lost glories going on there, I feel. Perhaps the tartan and plaids evoked memories of dear old Balmoral, even if the Duke hadn't liked it very much!
__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
abdication, britain, duchess of windsor, duke of windsor, edward viii, king edward viii, wallis simpson


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Duchess of Windsor Jewellery micas Royal Jewels 210 09-03-2017 02:19 PM
The Duke of Windsor and Wallis Simpson - 3 June 1937 aussiechick12 Historical Royal Weddings 26 05-01-2015 12:42 PM
Prince Richard, Duke of Gloucester and Miss Birgitte van Deurs: 8 July 1972 Scott Royal Weddings 15 11-20-2014 11:41 AM
Books on The Duke and Duchess of Windsor Duchess Royal Library 106 07-15-2013 12:49 PM
The Duke and Duchess of Gloucester Current Events 1: October 2003-January 2006 A.C.C. Current Events Archive 132 01-13-2006 10:37 PM




Popular Tags
birthday british royal history carl gustaf chris o'neill crown princess mary crown princess victoria crown princess victoria hats current events denmark duchess of brabant duchess of cambridge earl of snowdon family general news grand duke henri hereditary grand duchess stéphanie hereditary grand duke guillaume infanta cristina infanta leonor infanta sofia iñaki urdangarín jewels king felipe king felipe vi king philippe king willem-alexander letizia liechtenstein lord snowdon love monarchy monarchy versus republic news official visit paris prince alexander prince carl philip prince daniel prince felix prince gabriel prince harry prince harry of wales prince nicholas prince oscar princess beatrice princess claire of luxembourg princess estelle princess leonore princess madeleine princess of asturias princess sofia princess victoria queen elizabeth ii queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen mathilde queen maxima queen maxima casual wear queen silvia question soderberg spanish royal family state visit stephanie sweden swedish royal family victoria zog



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:32 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017
Jelsoft Enterprises