What do you think of Charlene?

[Zonk]

And maybe that's the problem....everyone wants another Grace Kelly. From where I stand...thats a pretty high standard. She was a great princess and in death she has become a legend.

And really thats unfair to Albert (expecting him to marry someone like his mother) and anyone that he dates (constant comparisons to Grace).

If he enjoys Charlene's company, and is upfront with her regarding the status of their relationship (i.e. the other women he dates) and has flat said he will not marry. I don't understand why him "dating" Charlene is a problem. As already mentioned, the succession is secure. She appears with him at social events...its not like she is meeting world leaders.

 

[fandesacs2003]

And maybe that's the problem....everyone wants another Grace Kelly. From where I stand...thats a pretty high standard. She was a great princess and in death she has become a legend.

And really thats unfair to Albert (expecting him to marry someone like his mother) and anyone that he dates (constant comparisons to Grace).

That's true
Comparison to Caroline is also heavy. Imagine the poor candidate, squized between the two

If he enjoys Charlene's company, and is upfront with her regarding the status of their relationship (i.e. the other women he dates) and has flat said he will not marry. I don't understand why him "dating" Charlene is a problem. As already mentioned, the succession is secure. She appears with him at social events...its not like she is meeting world leaders.

I did not follow very well, but why Charlene is SOOOOO insuitable??

After that, Monaco is small place, without a real strategic importance in that Earth??? What is wrong with Charlene??

In Norway they took Mette Marit, having everything wrong and against her, and finally the country has survived

 

[LadyS]

I don't see anything wrong with Charlene as a person (from what little I know of her).I think the problem arises when she is compared with Princess Grace and unfortunately falls short.

Although Monaco is small the main problem (IMO) is that everyone would like Albert to marry someone who could bring back to Monaco a little bit of "magic" and glamour that Princess Grace brought with her.

Unfortunately the type of women Albert is obviously attracted to aren't the types who people perceive as "princessy". He appears to prefer the sporty, outdoor type and if you look at Charlene she fits the bill (like Alicia Warlick).

I personally think that nothing can't be changed if you have enough money and resources - so there could be hope for Charlene. A stylist and mini-makeover, instruction in etiquette might make her appear more suitable.

Maybe we could expect an announcement on the anniversary of when they first appeared in public - February, I think (just joking, ha, ha)

 

[maryellen1539]

LadyS, Do you as someone from South Africa think that Charele is a serious contender for the Olympics? I'm begining to think she is a fake.

 

[LadyS]

To be honest I'm not very into sports and I had never heard of Charlene Wittstock until she was spotted with Prince Albert at the Olympics. Then she was on the front page of our daily newspapers. I mean I live in Benoni and had never heard of her.

I know about our gold medal winners so I'm not completely oblivious (ie Penny Heyns, Natalie du Toit, Ryk Neethling etc)

As for being a serious contender I would have thought that 28 or 29 is a little old but then I am certainly no expert about sports and swimming. (this is of course my personal opinion)

 

[sashajones]

I often wonder what the IOC members think of Prince Albert' s relationship with Charlene Wittstock. IM sure it does not make either one look good in the eyes of the members or the athletes.

 

[Lady Jennifer]

I personally think that nothing can't be changed if you have enough money and resources - so there could be hope for Charlene. A stylist and mini-makeover, instruction in etiquette might make her appear more suitable.

Doesn't this normally occur when the woman is engaged to be married? You wouldn't spend thousands on just anyone. It would have to be "the" one. Sadly anyone Albert dates will be compared to Grace, just like anyone William and Harry date will (in some way) be compared to Diana.
To me she seems to be a young lady who is having fun and enjoying a nice relationship with Albert. And I'm sure she knows about the other women & maybe doesn't care (because she could be dating other men). They could have a totally open relationship- one with no strings attached. Or maybe she (& any other women) are a smoke screen for a real relationship he is having with someone else.

 

[sandsla]

Yep, very true. But I hold Albert responsible for this as well He is not an innocent bystander. If he didn't agree with her and her actions, he would have broken up long ago. He is still seeing her, I have a hard time believing he doesn't know about the interviews, her behaviour and her talking to everyone who wants to hear, so I suppose he is ok with it. Sad but true. And yet again the norm is lowered.

I couldn't agree more, This is why I mentioned the age difference before also. I know men her age who would find her wannabe personality bothersome, all the camera preening & blabbing to the press is just really revealing to her character & agenda to me?. So someone in Alberts position at almost 49 - I just don't understand. I'm in the entertainment industry in LA & her actions & behavior would be a problem for men in my town & they could afford to date that personality type if they wanted but they find it a real turn-off & they are not a head of state where they need to be taken that seriously.

and for the posters who think it's just not being able to measure up to Grace:

Yes I feel sorry for any one in that position who is always going to be compared to Grace Kelly, but aside from some being blonde that is the only comparrison i can see with any one he's dated.

I agree if they are both mature enough to understand the relationship & he kept her out of the press instead of parading her around no harm done. But I think he was just having some fun when he ended up with two unwanted children & women he thought betrayed him? I'm sure they did -but then he chooses to date women like this? So I think it's hard for people to take him seriously?

I think there are many women out there that are not Grace Kelly but still possess some integrity at least in the company of Prince Albert & the press. That is why we have a problem with Charlene, not that she doesn't have a formal education, or the fact that she seems to have focused her life so far solely on herself, but it's that she can't show an ounce of discretion or maturity & it doesn't speak much to Albert's.

 

[hibou]

I couldn't agree more, This is why I mentioned the age difference before also. I know men her age who would find her wannabe personality bothersome, all the camera preening & blabbing to the press is just really revealing to her character & agenda to me?. So someone in Alberts position at almost 49 - I just don't understand. I'm in the entertainment industry in LA & her actions & behavior would be a problem for men in my town & they could afford to date that personality type if they wanted but they find it a real turn-off & they are not a head of state where they need to be taken that seriously.

and for the posters who think it's just not being able to measure up to Grace:

Yes I feel sorry for any one in that position who is always going to be compared to Grace Kelly, but aside from some being blonde that is the only comparrison i can see with any one he's dated.

I agree if they are both mature enough to understand the relationship & he kept her out of the press instead of parading her around no harm done. But I think he was just having some fun when he ended up with two unwanted children & women he thought betrayed him? I'm sure they did -but then he chooses to date women like this? So I think it's hard for people to take him seriously?

I think there are many women out there that are not Grace Kelly but still possess some integrity at least in the company of Prince Albert & the press. That is why we have a problem with Charlene, not that she doesn't have a formal education, or the fact that she seems to have focused her life so far solely on herself, but it's that she can't show an ounce of discretion or maturity & it doesn't speak much to Albert's.

Amen! Sandsla you hit the hail on the head. I don't think anyone expects Albert's wife to fill Grace's shoes she was one of a kind. This person will have to have the brains and maturity to cut her own path like Queen Rania did who followed the ground-breaking Queen Noor. I know that comparison sounds silly to compare Albert's wife with those two but it's just an illustration as to how it can be accomplished.

 

[Zonk]

Yes I feel sorry for any one in that position who is always going to be compared to Grace Kelly, but aside from some being blonde that is the only comparrison i can see with any one he's dated.

This is true....blonde is the only thing that Charlene and Grace appear to have in common. But how often in these threads do we not hear/read...she isn't like Grace, why can't he marry someone like Grace, etc. So while its true that it appear he is not dating someone like Grace, Charlene and other women he has dated are being held up to the Grace Kelly standard nonetheless. And its interesting to note, that Grace's past wasn't so clean as well. I wonder what we will think of Charlene in 20 years or so?

 

[paca]

I wonder what we will think of Charlene in 20 years or so?

Nothing - unless she stays in the limelight as either Alberts companion or for some other reason. If they were to split up now and Albert would be happily married with kids to someone else, no one would think of her. Or do people still have an interest in any of Caro's and Steph's men? ( Apart from those they have children with)

 

[Zonk]

My point was/is...back in the day Grace did not have a spotless repuation. She did somethings that were somewhat scandalous as well.

IF Albert did marry Charlene..and she behaved in a Princess Grace like fashion...twenty years from now...would be people be talking about how inappropriate her behavior was prior to her marriage. Or would any potential wife of a son (born to Albert and Charlene) be compared to Princess Charlene?

 

[Doña Alicia]

Personally, I think if Princess Grace had not met such a sudden and tragic end, the comparisons wouldn't be made as much. I think the question would be "Is she good enough for him? or "Is he good enough for her?" I think Albert would have had more direction of Grace were still alive. I doubt he would still be a bachelor. There are plenty of women out there that would be suitable for him on both sides of the pond. As far as the words "Princess Charlene"; they make me shudder. As I have said before, she probably is a great person once you get to know her. But, her behavior thus far does not say "I am the next Princess of Monaco". I know this may upset some of you who really like CW. I am just expressing my opinion.

 

[pinklady1991]

Grace's less than spotless reputation was pretty much kept hidden from the press in the 50's. While it may have been an open secret in Hollywood, the public at large wasn't aware that Grace was anything less than a perfectly behaved lady from a good Philadelphia family.

I agree with Dona Alicia -- I'm sure Charlene is a fun person to be around but whether or not she can remake herself into a more "serious" person is questionable at this point. What I'd like to know is what is she passionate about other than swimming? The article in Paris Match last year talked about her love of travel as well but I am thinking what does she feel passionate about outside her own immediate likes and dislikes? Why does she admire Nelson Mandela so much? I want substance, not just style. JMO.

 

[Zonk]

I see your point but I disagree somewhat.

While there is no way to compare the way news is being handled now and the 1950's......back in the day....there was speculation and gossip magazines (you had the two gossip queens...Louella Parsons, Hedda Hopper and that magazine that ended many a Hollywood career) and they touched on Grace's relationship with married men. So while it was most likely not COMMON knowledge (and the news was not readily accesible 24/7)....middle America had an inkling that she wasn't the perfect lady.

 

[LadyMacAlpine]

Not having the pleasure of displeasure whatever the case could be my opinion of her is she seems to have something Albert can't get enough of because they keep showing up together. Maybe she will be the one to get the gold or silver metal around her ring finger.

 

[Jaya]

Not having the pleasure of displeasure whatever the case could be my opinion of her is she seems to have something Albert can't get enough of because they keep showing up together. Maybe she will be the one to get the gold or silver metal around her ring finger.

We may hear of an announcement or have a better inkling later on this year.
I think the Prince finds her natural and certainly not flashy.I think his father may have influenced this choice in that he had stated that the wife not necessarily be intellectual. I think this a go substance or no.As for her having spoken to the press I think it was with the consent of the Prince because they didn't break up. They have been together since 2001 and it is 2007. I say dust off your clothes there is going to be a marriage.

 

[sandsla]

This is true....blonde is the only thing that Charlene and Grace appear to have in common. But how often in these threads do we not hear/read...she isn't like Grace, why can't he marry someone like Grace, etc. So while its true that it appear he is not dating someone like Grace, Charlene and other women he has dated are being held up to the Grace Kelly standard nonetheless. And its interesting to note, that Grace's past wasn't so clean as well. I wonder what we will think of Charlene in 20 years or so?

A lot of the rumors about Grace were just that, because you read something in a book doesn't make it true, unless you know something more than the people that grew up in LA in the industry do? She was 26 yrs old & an Oscar winning actress that was also quite beautiful. There were a lot of people who would have liked to take her down - The tell all books were conveniently published after she died. I've yet to hear anyone who knew her testify (except to negate them) to all the rumors in an interview or otherwise? I doubt she was a goody two shoes, but she still managed to keep above the fray for some reason? So at least she was mature enough to be discreet. I think it's the media trying to make a comparison to Grace more than anyone. I think there are some on this board that just think Albert's bride should be P-r-e-t-t-y? and be able to dress her up like a barbie. I think the posters that have problems with Charlene go directly to her character & behavior that we've seen & read in the press with our own eyes. She's yet to refute being misquoted? She's almost 30 yrs old so I imagine her behavior will be much the same in 20 yrs? Just like Tamara (imo) doesn't seem to have grown any & still defines herself by her affiliation with Albert by the use of her daughter & the press?

I just think a lot of us would simply like to see Charlene or some women act like an adult & less impressed with the media attention & more impressed with Albert as a man. Do you really think she would be interested in Albert if he didn't have the title or the money? Also Grace did not go after Rainier she was interested in another actor while she was at Cannes during the time she met Rainier. The new archbishop? or bishop? in Monaco at the time had just been sent from Philidelphia & he was the one that helped Rainier pursue Grace. She wasn't a wanna-be like so many of Albert's women seem to be, she obviously had a lot of options & didn't need Rainier for money or fame, she already had that on her own. That is the only comparison I would make, however I don't care how established Charlene or another woman is, how much money she has or what her formal education is - Really I think someone that can behave like a nice normal women whould be fine if they were both truly in love with each other. Most women could or should be able to fit that bill? I think we just don't understand why he is so taken with the ones that seem so opportunistic. I think we just can't see Charlene's appeal? That's all

 

[Tzu An]

I don't think Albert will be able to snag a smart, hardworking, successful in her own right female who has it together. No female in her right mind worth her weight on gold is going to want to go near him with a ten foot pole, money and power or no money and power. Too much trouble and two women, each with children of their own and agendas for each. If Albert died and left her with the mess then it would be hard, if not impossible to prevent a major problem from occuring.



On the other hand, it would make tabloid investors rich.

 

[paca]

They have been together since 2001 and it is 2007. I say dust off your clothes there is going to be a marriage.

They have not been together continously since 2001!! Remember that he was still with Nicole and managed to have a son with her? They met first in 2001 and then again 2002. He has been with many women between 2001 and 2006. And even after he did not keep his hands to himself as photos from last summer showed rather clearly. So please don't try to make people believe that they had a constant normal relationship since 2001. for all we know the most constant woman in Alberts life has been Nicole. And she wasn't exclusive either as he was dating Alicia and Tasha and various others at the same time. If she is still there in 5 years, that might be a different story, but so far he hasn't done anything with her and to her, that he hasn't done with other women before. He only did it more discretely while his father was alive. That is the only difference that I see between Charlene and all the others before her. I might be wrong, but I firmly believe that if Albert would have found the woman he wants to marry, he would have behaved differently with her then he did with the others. And it would have been noticeable to everyone. JMO

 

[libra65]

I don't think Albert will be able to snag a smart, hardworking, successful in her own right female who has it together. No female in her right mind worth her weight on gold is going to want to go near him with a ten foot pole, money and power or no money and power. Too much trouble and two women, each with children of their own and agendas for each. If Albert died and left her with the mess then it would be hard, if not impossible to prevent a major problem from occuring.



On the other hand, it would make tabloid investors rich.

Just what mess would he be leaving her with?? As long as he has a will (I am sure he already does), and both kids are mentioned, all is well. By French law, he has to leave 50% to his children (correct me if I'm wrong Paca). Should he have 1 child by a wife, he could get probably legally get away with leaving these children a token inheritance & the rest to the legitimate child. I don't think he would do that though. Also remember, the bulk of his wealth is tied to the Principality and automatically will go to the next sovereign. Rainier saw to it that it was set up that way.

 

[BurberryBrit]

I don't think Albert will be able to snag a smart, hardworking, successful in her own right female who has it together. No female in her right mind worth her weight on gold is going to want to go near him with a ten foot pole, money and power or no money and power. Too much trouble and two women, each with children of their own and agendas for each. If Albert died and left her with the mess then it would be hard, if not impossible to prevent a major problem from occuring.



On the other hand, it would make tabloid investors rich.

More importantly, if HE doesn't think he deserves such a woman or that such a woman would have him, I can see why he would settle for Charlene. She seems very content to go along with the status quo. That has to be appealing in some regards.

 

[sandsla]

Just what mess would he be leaving her with?? As long as he has a will (I am sure he already does), and both kids are mentioned, all is well. By French law, he has to leave 50% to his children (correct me if I'm wrong Paca). Should he have 1 child by a wife, he could get probably legally get away with leaving these children a token inheritance & the rest to the legitimate child. I don't think he would do that though. Also remember, the bulk of his wealth is tied to the Principality and automatically will go to the next sovereign. Rainier saw to it that it was set up that way.

I think most of us understand the legalities & are talking about something different, for instance giving up your citizenship of your own country, your anonymity, life as you know it in general, being put in a very lonely place if you lose your husband & then relegated to some marginal status in Monaco, escpecially if there is not a child. Do you stay in Monaco or continue your life somewhere else? I just think there are a lot of concessions Albert's wife (if she is worth anything) is going have to make. Money is not everything & if that is what certain women aspire to, there are a lot of other ways & relationships available to attain that without all the constraints. I agree I think he knows that a smart women may not see it as such an attractive proposal - I hope he doesn't settle for someone like Charlene because of it. I'm a libra too

 

[Tzu An]

Not just that, but always having two other women bragging about their kids and their supposed 'rights' to the throne of Monaco. Now legally they wouldn't have any, but still it would cause a headache that any sensible woman would avoid.

Money is not everything

Exactly, especially in this situation. The Grimaldis have a lot of money and power in Monaco, but they are largely Eurotrash. No respectable princess has ever married any Grimaldi and the only reason Ranier married Grace was because she was willing. If the royal houses of Europe had produced a royal bride willing to marry Ranier, Grace would have never been considered. Grace was part of society, but not really a real member of the American aristocracy that wouldn't sacrifice one of their daughters to the jet set tax evasion haven that is Monaco.

 

[Lalla Meriem]

Does Charlene have a education? Did she even complete high school?

 

[paca]

Just what mess would he be leaving her with?? As long as he has a will (I am sure he already does), and both kids are mentioned, all is well. By French law, he has to leave 50% to his children (correct me if I'm wrong Paca). Should he have 1 child by a wife, he could get probably legally get away with leaving these children a token inheritance & the rest to the legitimate child. I don't think he would do that though. Also remember, the bulk of his wealth is tied to the Principality and automatically will go to the next sovereign. Rainier saw to it that it was set up that way.

By French law he can not make a difference between ay of his children. THey are all entitled to the same share. But Monaco is not France and French law does not apply. They made the announcement with regards to questions from the press and to prevent any public discussions about what his children will have and what not. Ultimately it will be Albert in his will who decides who is getting what and how much. He will surely provide for them and they wo't want for anything, but what they will ultimately inherit is sth that Albert will decide alone and no contract that he has made previously to this respect with any of the mothers will be valid then. I doubt that any court of law would actually take the case to dispute the heritage of a head of state and besides only a MOnegasque court would have that jurisdiction.... in any case so far Albert is alive and has not produced a legitimate heir. So the big part of his heritage would pass to Caroline as it has to stay with the ruling prince/princess (palace, car collection basically all valuables) as you have correctly said and only his private fortune would be up for distribution which is far less then people think. anyways at present all is just speculation...

 

[Empress]

Well, in both cases, I do not think that any inheritance law would apply, as it appears that neither child is a citizen of Monaco, and do not reside there, so they are not subject to, nor can they benefit from, whatever the law may be in Monaco. Or at least, that is my understanding. It would seem logical that way.

I can't see any reason why such a law, were it a law of Monaco, compel him to leave anything to citizens of another country, over whom they have no jurisdiction.

 

[libra65]

By French law he can not make a difference between ay of his children. THey are all entitled to the same share. But Monaco is not France and French law does not apply. They made the announcement with regards to questions from the press and to prevent any public discussions about what his children will have and what not. Ultimately it will be Albert in his will who decides who is getting what and how much. He will surely provide for them and they wo't want for anything, but what they will ultimately inherit is sth that Albert will decide alone and no contract that he has made previously to this respect with any of the mothers will be valid then. I doubt that any court of law would actually take the case to dispute the heritage of a head of state and besides only a MOnegasque court would have that jurisdiction.... in any case so far Albert is alive and has not produced a legitimate heir. So the big part of his heritage would pass to Caroline as it has to stay with the ruling prince/princess (palace, car collection basically all valuables) as you have correctly said and only his private fortune would be up for distribution which is far less then people think. anyways at present all is just speculation...

Thank you Paca. I knew I could count on you for the correct answer. I thought that French law did have some jurisdiction-sorry,my error. Very smart move making it so the vast part of the inheritance must and should stay with the ruling prince/princess. Very smart move. Hopefully this won't be an issue for a very long time.

Well, in both cases, I do not think that any inheritance law would apply, as it appears that neither child is a citizen of Monaco, and do not reside there, so they are not subject to, nor can they benefit from, whatever the law may be in Monaco. Or at least, that is my understanding. It would seem logical that way.

I can't see any reason why such a law, were it a law of Monaco, compel him to leave anything to citizens of another country, over whom they have no jurisdiction.

Empress, I think Monagasque inheritance law comes in to play because Albert is a citizen of Monaco. It would be his will being probated so it makes no difference where the kids live.

That is just my interprtation of it though. As I said above, I hope it is not an issued for a long time. Hopefully 35 or 40 years.

 

[Lalla Meriem]

By French law he can not make a difference between ay of his children. THey are all entitled to the same share. But Monaco is not France and French law does not apply. They made the announcement with regards to questions from the press and to prevent any public discussions about what his children will have and what not. Ultimately it will be Albert in his will who decides who is getting what and how much. He will surely provide for them and they wo't want for anything, but what they will ultimately inherit is sth that Albert will decide alone and no contract that he has made previously to this respect with any of the mothers will be valid then. I doubt that any court of law would actually take the case to dispute the heritage of a head of state and besides only a MOnegasque court would have that jurisdiction.... in any case so far Albert is alive and has not produced a legitimate heir. So the big part of his heritage would pass to Caroline as it has to stay with the ruling prince/princess (palace, car collection basically all valuables) as you have correctly said and only his private fortune would be up for distribution which is far less then people think. anyways at present all is just speculation...

Caroline has an enormous fortune of her own. I doubt Albert will be leaving anything to either of his sisters or their chidren.

I've long said that no matter what he says now Albert will do like his great grandfather if he fails to have legitimate children he will take the necessary steps to give succession righs to his own children before he allows it to pass to his sister. While Rainier may have wanted to make sure Caroline could succeed Rainier I doubt Albert is concerned with making sure Caroline not his own children inherit.

Property that is owned by Albert in other countries could fall under another jurisdiction. However, I suspect Albert will likely (if not already) put most of his assets including the Palace (which is his not the state's) into a trust for his heir, and transfer them to said heir before he dies to limit drainage of the estate by any addition children that may pop due to his apparent irresponsible "behavior" concerning protection.

Monaco, also, has no law that states that the property including the Palace, artwork and jewels must be transferred to the head of state. There are only documents with France stating what will happen to these things if there is a complete lack of heirs (which is not likely to ever happen given The Sovereign Prince's ability to alter the succession laws at any time).

Monaco may not have inheritance laws similar to those of France and Germany where each child will get a certain minimum precentage of an estate no matter what you will. Under Monaco law (which I'm sure is all that will apply given the head of state status) Albert or anyone else may be free to leave their entire estate to charity, their cat, or their long time mistress while leaving not one penny for any of their children. I'm going to make it a point to find this out tonight!

 

[tbhrc]

Okay this thread is a great deal too much off topic. Remember this thread is about Charlene and not about Prince Albert's kids and their possible inheritance. So please stay on topic. Any future posts about those issues will be deleted.

Thanks for your cooperation,

tbhrc
Monaco Moderator