What do you think of Charlene?

[Jaya]

Thanks paca

Thanks paca for the insightful aforementioned posts on athletes and what CW may have faced herself.
It is notable that the modern Greek poet I speak of had a wife who lived to be a hundred years old and was always asking us if we are Olympians when we visited their house.The poet I speak of is :Giorgos Seferis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
and in his books of essays he speaks at length analytically about athletes and Olympics.
your contributions have enriched our perspectives on CW and the challenges she may have faced and I a can only say how humbly& much I appreciate this.

 

[Zonk]

Okay...let's move on from the detour.

 

[NGalitzine]

Well after reading through this thread I can see people feel quite strongly and mostly negatively about poor Charlene. I am not entirly sure what the justification is as I assume few if any members have ever met her or talked to her. Most of the information seems to come from tabloids and glossy picture magazines. People say she doesnt train as a swimmer but she seems to have regained her South African champioship in the 50M backstroke and then placed 3rd in a international event over the last couple of months, so unless she in unnaturally gifted I would bet that some training was involved. Even if she never makes it to another Olympic Games she has already demonstrated a level of commitment and achievement very few ever achieve. Then there is the discussion on the age gap. 20 years is indeed a large gap, but not the first time it has ever happened. Do not the Duke and Duchess of Braganza have a large age gap as well and he wasn't exactly young when they married and started a family. Her fashion choices have not always been on the mark but I doubt there is a man or woman alive who has not committed more than one fashion faux pas over the years. I don't know if they wll ever marry, but I bet if they do the same people who have been so quick to criticize will sing her praises once they pop a tiara on her head and dress her in Chanel and Dior. I am curious through if anyone knows if she speaks French or is taking lessons, that after all is one thing that will be required of her if they marry. Grace had to learn it, and never really felt comfortable with the language in interviews.
I think we should give her a break and wait to see if they do marry and she then becomes Princess of Monaco. In the end, no matter who Prince Albert marries they will suffer in comparison to the public image of his mother.

 

[hibou]

Well after reading through this thread I can see people feel quite strongly and mostly negatively about poor Charlene. I am not entirly sure what the justification is as I assume few if any members have ever met her or talked to her. Most of the information seems to come from tabloids and glossy picture magazines. People say she doesnt train as a swimmer but she seems to have regained her South African champioship in the 50M backstroke and then placed 3rd in a international event over the last couple of months, so unless she in unnaturally gifted I would bet that some training was involved. Even if she never makes it to another Olympic Games she has already demonstrated a level of commitment and achievement very few ever achieve. Then there is the discussion on the age gap. 20 years is indeed a large gap, but not the first time it has ever happened. Do not the Duke and Duchess of Braganza have a large age gap as well and he wasn't exactly young when they married and started a family. Her fashion choices have not always been on the mark but I doubt there is a man or woman alive who has not committed more than one fashion faux pas over the years. I don't know if they wll ever marry, but I bet if they do the same people who have been so quick to criticize will sing her praises once they pop a tiara on her head and dress her in Chanel and Dior. I am curious through if anyone knows if she speaks French or is taking lessons, that after all is one thing that will be required of her if they marry. Grace had to learn it, and never really felt comfortable with the language in interviews.
I think we should give her a break and wait to see if they do marry and she then becomes Princess of Monaco. In the end, no matter who Prince Albert marries they will suffer in comparison to the public image of his mother.

With all due respect, what we say about her will be nothing once the press first builds her up then tears her down, and yes whoever he marries will be compared to Grace. However, a smart and cleaver girl will cut her own path in the woods. So as as far as I'm concerned, we are just the warm up act for what she can expect. If she can't take the heat then she should get out of the kitchen. After all when you read the threads on the other royal ladies, this group is rather mild. JMO

 

[NGalitzine]

With all due respect, what we say about her will be nothing once the press first builds her up then tears her down, and yes whoever he marries will be compared to Grace. However, a smart and cleaver girl will cut her own path in the woods. So as as far as I'm concerned, we are just the warm up act for what she can expect. If she can't take the heat then she should get out of the kitchen. After all when you read the threads on the other royal ladies, this group is rather mild. JMO

Perhaps, but since she isn't running away I would assume that she can indeed take the heat. Sorry, I didnt realize that commenting on "royal ladies" was a blood sport.

 

[hibou]

Perhaps, but since she isn't running away I would assume that she can indeed take the heat. Sorry, I didnt realize that commenting on "royal ladies" was a blood sport.

Your new here, go read the other threads you'll see what I mean! No Charlene isn't running away, so she seems to take the heat and if she does get the tiara she can laugh her way to the bank! But she will have to speak French in order to communicate to her subjects and on that you are correct we have not read nor heard from our posters who live in and near Monaco whether or not she can speak their language. I'm sure now that we've posted our complaints we will read from one of the tabloids (Bunte) that she is studing hard and is now fluent in French. It seems to work that way too many times to be a coincidence on this board. Just my observation. In fact there was one time that paca made a very insightful post and not a week later it looked like they lifted it right off the thread. Of course we can't prove a thing but it certainly raised eye brows! Welcome to the board and happy posting!

 

[paca]

Well after reading through this thread I can see people feel quite strongly and mostly negatively about poor Charlene. I am not entirly sure what the justification is as I assume few if any members have ever met her or talked to her. Most of the information seems to come from tabloids and glossy picture magazines. People say she doesnt train as a swimmer but she seems to have regained her South African champioship in the 50M backstroke and then placed 3rd in a international event over the last couple of months, so unless she in unnaturally gifted I would bet that some training was involved. Even if she never makes it to another Olympic Games she has already demonstrated a level of commitment and achievement very few ever achieve. Then there is the discussion on the age gap. 20 years is indeed a large gap, but not the first time it has ever happened. Do not the Duke and Duchess of Braganza have a large age gap as well and he wasn't exactly young when they married and started a family. Her fashion choices have not always been on the mark but I doubt there is a man or woman alive who has not committed more than one fashion faux pas over the years. I don't know if they wll ever marry, but I bet if they do the same people who have been so quick to criticize will sing her praises once they pop a tiara on her head and dress her in Chanel and Dior. I am curious through if anyone knows if she speaks French or is taking lessons, that after all is one thing that will be required of her if they marry. Grace had to learn it, and never really felt comfortable with the language in interviews.
I think we should give her a break and wait to see if they do marry and she then becomes Princess of Monaco. In the end, no matter who Prince Albert marries they will suffer in comparison to the public image of his mother.

As to her gaining a title, that is not too difficult when all the major competition calls in absent after on the spot preparation for the more important worldchampionships which ended the week before in Melbourne if I recall the timing correctly. So no mystery or miracle swim there, just lack of competition.

As to her learning French, well Albert said himself as they were approached by Bunte journalists in Kitz this winter that she speaks English, not French or German. In the volunteers canteen she did not manage to get a meal without help from a bodyguard and one of Alberts helps. Considering that all she had to do was point at what she wanted, I assume that after 1 and a half years of intensive learning of French and protocol lessons with Mme Gallico (according to Bunte), she is still incapable to order a meal on her own (she spoke English from what I overheard), dress appropriately and manage knife and fork accidentfree with the correct hand whilst maintaining the food in its appropriate places (either plate or mouth, but not going back and fourth between the two) I should assume that by now she will be an expert in catholizism since she flunked aforementioned classes and that was the other one that Bunte claimed she was spending much time on. Seeing that she spent the night sharing a cabin with her boyfriend on board though, I think that she flunked that one too, as I do not recall that part of the catechism Guess she spend the last 18 months improving other skills or she just doesn't improve or is having very poor or disinterested teachers. whichever it is, it is not playing in her favor as I have heard nothing positive mentioned from anyone who met and observed her. And people had plenty of time on their hands to do so. I suppose Albert exposed her so much that people would actually get to know and like her. Too bad for him that it didn't work out that way.

 

[scooter]

Personally,I think it's a moot point. At this point, I doubt Albert will ever marry. I do think that Charlene is an improvement over the last two he procreated with. If he is not going to marry, there needs to be some preparation for Caroline's eldest, which there does not seem to be much evidence of.

 

[Lillia]

Well after reading through this thread I can see people feel quite strongly and mostly negatively about poor Charlene. I am not entirly sure what the justification is as I assume few if any members have ever met her or talked to her. Most of the information seems to come from tabloids and glossy picture magazines. People say she doesnt train as a swimmer but she seems to have regained her South African champioship in the 50M backstroke and then placed 3rd in a international event over the last couple of months, so unless she in unnaturally gifted I would bet that some training was involved. Even if she never makes it to another Olympic Games she has already demonstrated a level of commitment and achievement very few ever achieve. Then there is the discussion on the age gap. 20 years is indeed a large gap, but not the first time it has ever happened. Do not the Duke and Duchess of Braganza have a large age gap as well and he wasn't exactly young when they married and started a family. Her fashion choices have not always been on the mark but I doubt there is a man or woman alive who has not committed more than one fashion faux pas over the years. I don't know if they wll ever marry, but I bet if they do the same people who have been so quick to criticize will sing her praises once they pop a tiara on her head and dress her in Chanel and Dior. I am curious through if anyone knows if she speaks French or is taking lessons, that after all is one thing that will be required of her if they marry. Grace had to learn it, and never really felt comfortable with the language in interviews.
I think we should give her a break and wait to see if they do marry and she then becomes Princess of Monaco. In the end, no matter who Prince Albert marries they will suffer in comparison to the public image of his mother.

I did not see CW name on this list of SA women swimmers that ranked in the 50M backstroke. Maybe it is there...

Individual Top Times by Stroke/Distance (short)

Individual Top Times by Stroke/Distance (long)

the links are for 2006-2007 South African swim team rankings. It shows as of November 2006 (just 6 mo ago)

Here is the website:
Swimming South Africa - www.swimsa.co.za - The official home of swimming in South Africa

and they have named the SA National and Olympic squad it seems:

Swimming South Africa - www.swimsa.co.za - The official home of swimming in South Africa

I did see her name on the SA National team for 2007/2008. But not the SA Olympic team for 2007/2008.

It looks like the Masters will be next spring in Australia.
FINA - Index

Here are more international swimming results for the 50M backstroke. Maybe CW is there?

www.fina.org | Official FINA Website | swimming

you have to select "backstroke" and "women" to see the 2006/2007 rankings. It is possible to see up to 150 different names in the different events along with the rank.

I have to say that I am glad that CW has the ability to do whatever she wants, because she has lot of flexibility to make these kinds of choices about what she wants for her future

 

[Lakshmi]

Seeing that she spent the night sharing a cabin with her boyfriend on board though, I think that she flunked that one too, as I do not recall that part of the catechism

I still find this hard to believe that these two ever really dated. This relationship seems hoax. They spend night on the ship, but it doesn't have to mean they shared cabin. BTW I recall what Stevie Parker, Albert's former lover(real one) told, that when she was traveling with Albert they always slept in separate rooms, b/c t was "appropriate".

 

[NGalitzine]

I have to say that I am glad that CW has the ability to do whatever she wants, because she has lot of flexibility to make these kinds of choices about what she wants for her future

True, but of course we all have choices in life, its having the courage to pursue them that is the real test of a person. As someone once said, you have to decide whether you want to be a star in your own life or a supporting actor in someone elses.

It was a SA guy on my rugby team who mentioned that she had won the event back in April, not positive on her event (breast or backstroke). I'll have to ask him if he provide a SA news link. In any case making a national team still requires some level of dedication and turning in results to qualify for the team, especially as she ages and competes against younger and younger swimmers .

 

[Lillia]

True, but of course we all have choices in life, its having the courage to pursue them that is the real test of a person. As someone once said, you have to decide whether you want to be a star in your own life or a supporting actor in someone elses.

It was a SA guy on my rugby team who mentioned that she had won the event back in April, not positive on her event (breast or backstroke). I'll have to ask him if he provide a SA news link. In any case making a national team still requires some level of dedication and turning in results to qualify for the team, especially as she ages and competes against younger and younger swimmers .

I do not disagree that it takes focus and determination, something that CW clearly has used to gain olympic status in the past. The quality is not something that comes and goes easily. I still think that she is not training to be a serious competitor SA olympic swim team (maybe a stand-by), unless they have some idea that she can live halfway around the world in MC, swim seperate from the actual SA team in a minimum of qualifying meets then join the Olympic team that way.

I think it would be unusual to do something like that, but with PA as her friend, maybe they make exceptions. If swimming with the SA team is a guideline and not a regulation, guidelines cannot really be enforced.

Maybe it does not matter where one lives in the world, then all bets are off for competing with the team. Maybe she can live in MC, but swim for SA?

 

[Jaya]

I do not disagree that it takes focus and determination, something that CW clearly has used to gain olympic status in the past. The quality is not something that comes and goes easily. I still think that she is not training to be a serious competitor SA olympic swim team, unless they have some idea that she can live halfway around the world in MC and swim seperate from the actual SA team in a minimum of qualifying meets then join the Olympic team that way.

I think it would be unusual to do something like that, but with PA as her special friend, maybe they make exceptions. If swimming with the team is a guideline and not a regulation, guidelines cannot really be enforced.

Maybe it does not matter where one lives in the world, then all bets are off for competing with the team. Maybe she can live in MC, but swim for SA?

That is defeating the ethical purpose by possibly denigrating the Olympic ideal .maybe?

 

[Lillia]

That is defeating the ethical purpose by possibly denigrating the Olympic ideal .maybe?

Again, I would think it unusual if something like that would happen. I mean no disrespect to MC team or SA team by posing the question either (honest)

So, as usual we will have to wait and see what unfolds and best of luck to her with it .

 

[Jaya]

Possibly Princess Caroline as matriarch of the family could avail herself of this piece of fascinating technology available in North America to solve the discrepancy of whether Miss Wittsock is successful in her efforts to attain the level of the Olympian:
The Official Site of the TeleZapper
This is an effective tool in eliminating those that should not have telephoned in the first place.
My best wishes to Miss Wittsock in all her efforts.

 

[ysbel]

I think it is very unusual for swimmers to go back into topnotch Olympic competitions after being out of it for awhile.

She probably competed in the Olympics, realized she didn't have the talent to get a medal and decided to pursue something else.

The difference between someone who is an Olympic athlete and someone who isn't is very great but I would also say that the difference between someone who is an Olympic athlete without a medal and someone who has won the medal is also very great.

It may have been a gap that she decided she couldn't overcome. The majority of athletes never get to go to the Olympics but its also true that the majority of Olympic athletes never get the medal.

 

[Jaya]

I think it is very unusual for swimmers to go back into topnotch Olympic competitions after being out of it for awhile.

She probably competed in the Olympics, realized she didn't have the talent to get a medal and decided to pursue something else.

The difference between someone who is an Olympic athlete and someone who isn't is very great but I would also say that the difference between someone who is an Olympic athlete without a medal and someone who has won the medal is also very great.

It may have been a gap that she decided she couldn't overcome. The majority of athletes never get to go to the Olympics but its also true that the majority of Olympic athletes never get the medal.

Here I would like to say that Miss Wittsock tried [maybe not her best] but she did and in certain manner she is an "Olympian"at heart[with dignity] surely for having honored Olympia even once.

Again, I would think it unusual if something like that would happen. I mean no disrespect to MC team or SA team by posing the question either (honest)

So, as usual we will have to wait and see what unfolds and best of luck to her with it .

If we wait for this to unfold we might want to read this in the meantime:
Rip Van Winkle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ysbel]

Here I would like to say that Miss Wittsock tried [maybe not her best] but she did and in certain manner she is an "Olympian"at heart[with dignity] surely for having honored Olympia even once.

I agree with you there. I come from a family of athletes and none of us has ever reached the Olympics so just to reach the Olympics is definitely an accomplishment.

 

[Jaya]

I agree with you there. I come from a family of athletes and none of us has ever reached the Olympics so just to reach the Olympics is definitely an accomplishment.

It is an accomplishment to think as wisely as you do and that is being an "Olympian". Since it still affects you to speak of it you uphold the ideal. You are Olympian.Of course the distinction of winning and losing is there in that Olympic competition but that is daunting and like in any sphere of excellence reaching for the ideal is sometimes elusive.
Ysbel, I decree to all the Greeks wherever that you join the Olympian ranks this day.May you live forever in that glory that you carry so wisely in your heart.

 

[hibou]

I think what the objection has been is that for the past year we have had her give statements to Bunte and others about her training. Then she turns up with Albert here there and everywhere. Then we hear more about her training. Then more here there and everywhere. Even young swimmers can't keep that kind of schedule. So I think the objection is the integrity of her statements as she seems to say one thing and then do another. Obviously she swam enough to get a third place finish but as paca pointed out the top SA swimmers were not there. Had she not surfaced all over the place with Albert, I'm sure we would applaud her effort. It is hard to applaud the effort when it appears not to be there. Again I am not saying she didn't train, I am saying it appears she did not put her best effort into it. If I were a fellow athlete spending my life in a pool trying to qualify I would resent her. JMO

 

[Jaya]

NGALITZINE
Firstly there isn't anything poor or impoverished about Charlene the "official companion" of Pa.Negativity is what we mirror back from our interiority. It would not exist as a perception if we did not have it to begin with..and were projecting it on others in a passive aggressive manner.I have girlfriend that has met CW and has spoken with her about her and her and her.....
She has not demonstrated any level of commitment or high achievement as a high school drop out who has allowed herself to be proclaimed the "official keep" of Prince Albert.Is walking and chewing gum too difficult and what kind of a message does this send to youngsters about the importance of education? High& extraordinary achievement is working at Nasa and she does not work there.In fact this high achiever has never joined the proletariat as they go to earn their bread and butter.Very few nowadays when it is the easiest time in history to enter higher education have failed this in a globalized world that is highly literate.Where is Lady Bird Johnson when you need her with her literacy campaign?Whereabouts on the literacy Richter scale do you estimate Miss Wittsock?
The age gap is addressed because it is unnatural.This is not Picasso with Francoise Gilot who were both pinnacle artists.The age gap is also reflected in the difference of what each intends and expects.And therein there appears to be a blatant absence of egalitarianism of one towards the other and vice versa.
You cannot wax rhapsodic even with Chanel and Dior because it is superimposed and fake.Miss Wittsock has no aptitude in this area as athletes have a jock fashion sense and I do not think a Chanel suit or tiara will assist ever.[the attitude must change]
You say you are "curious"[bad manners] and you should instead be "interested" to know instead about Miss Wittsock's French immersion.
One would think that having played this devil's advocate you would know but most girls with a fair bit of education know French already as the language of the salon from their finishing schools.No she cannot read L'Etranger[The Stranger orThe Outsider} by Albert Camus[1942] yet maybe twenty years from now.Most individuals with a willingness to learn French have studied enough to read this by sixteen years of age.God forbid we discover who l'etranger is.....But if Miss Wittsock does read this she may discover who she is as I did.and all who have read it.So let us not go to whether she has read Rene Daumal, Francis de Miomandre,and Reverdy etc.I am old for exercises in futility.
I think you should speak for yourself in giving her a break at recess.By the way NGalitzine any relation to the Italian couturier?
There are plenty of "virtuous" educated, beautiful, and cultured women who in today's epoch can stand beside the image of Princess Grace not as suffering invalids of reality and myth but endowed with the splendid capability to thrive
but endure.And I certain having known Princess Grace that that is how she would have had expectations of it too.


.

 

[Elspeth]

High& extraordinary achievement is working at Nasa

Not any more, it ain't.

 

[Jaya]

Not any more, it ain't.

Hello Elspeth,
and touche

 

[ysbel]

There are plenty of "virtuous" educated, beautiful, and cultured women who in today's epoch can stand beside the image of Princess Grace not as suffering invalids of reality and myth but endowed with the splendid capability to thrive
but endure.And I certain having known Princess Grace that that is how she would have had expectations of it too.
.

Has anyone ever stopped to think that Albert doesn't WANT a virtuous, educated, beautiful, and cultured woman who could stand beside the image of Princess Grace? It sounds a little gross, as if Albert were marrying his own mother.

And Princess Grace thought Ernst August of Hannover would be an ideal companion for her daughter and I am sure that Ernst makes Caroline happy but he is rather boorish acting and doesn't act very well educated or cultured. So Grace's judgment of character isn't 100% correct.

And as far as the assertion that Charlene has accomplished nothing but being able to chew gum and walk at the same time then all I can say is that some must have forgotten the discussion here about her inclusion in the Olympic team

Once all the members here can get on an Olympic team with no preparation and no work, then yes, I would say that getting on an Olympic team shows no merit or achievement whatsoever; however until then, I think you are wrong.

 

[Jaya]

Has anyone ever stopped to think that Albert doesn't WANT a virtuous, educated, beautiful, and cultured woman who could stand beside the image of Princess Grace? It sounds a little gross, as if Albert were marrying his own mother.

And Princess Grace thought Ernst August of Hannover would be an ideal companion for her daughter and I am sure that Ernst makes Caroline happy but he is rather boorish acting and doesn't act very well educated or cultured. So Grace's judgment of character isn't 100% correct.

And as far as the assertion that Charlene has accomplished nothing but being able to chew gum and walk at the same time then all I can say is that some must have forgotten the discussion here about her inclusion in the Olympic team

Once all the members here can get on an Olympic team with no preparation and no work, then yes, I would say that getting on an Olympic team shows no merit or achievement whatsoever; however until then, I think you are wrong.

Charlene's Wittsock's inclusion in the Olympic team has been noted and lauded if you please read past posts.But enough, one's life should not be defined by this one achievement again and again as if life had no other dimensions just the re-iteration of this event which has been duly noted and praised.
Princess Grace thought Prince Ernst August as one of the potentials for Princess Caroline and he and Cw have a lot in common with being boorish,not acting very well educated or cultured.Grace's judgement appears flawed but would have prevented Caroline from entering two other marriages that did not work out; so in fact it is not.
Regarding Albert and the possibility that he has an Oedipus complex because a woman may have some of his mother's characteristics I think is gross as interpreted by anyone .Should he then loathe the gross image of anyone like his mother to prove he has no Oedipus complex?
Once all the members here can stop harping on this one achievement[like it is the second coming of Christ] and attain Nobel status then I will be hopeful for humanity otherwise I know why we are all enamoured with that which is slightly hyperbolic.Time, that frenzied sculptor of men will tell who is wrong and why.

 

[paca]

Maybe it does not matter where one lives in the world, then all bets are off for competing with the team. Maybe she can live in MC, but swim for SA?

Of course she can. Many of her team mates live in the US. Basically there is no requirement to be actually living inthe country that you intend to represent. Dirk Nowitzki plays for the NBA, makes a lot of money and stil joins the German National team for Olympics etc. All that is necessary is that you have the required performance and in teams sports that you are available for certain training times and events. The better the player, the more likely they are willing to make exceptions. With a swimmer she only needs to qualify and have the required times. As she will be performing on her own there is no need for her to actually know people on her team. Team in this case is just to sum up the contingent of athletes counting present in that particular sport. Nothing like in teamsport. Even their relays they don't have to train together. In athletics at least you have to practice to hand over the baton, whereas in swimming all you need to remember that you are only allowed to jump in when your team mate has touched the wall. I guess that won't be too difficult for her to do.

As to being able to join an Olympic team, that all depends on your country and which sport it has focused on supporting mostly. Australians are incredibly big in swimming as are the Netherlands. But what do we know about swimming in SA? Is it very popular? do they receive lots of government funding? what is the situation of sports in general in the country? If you look at Monaco, you will see that recently they had a team of 30 athletes of which only 3 were Monegasque. The team members by representing Monaco do not even have the right to attend school in Monaco. The Monaco officals actually claim that they have no way of proving that an athlete lives in the vicinity of Monaco (they claim that Beausoleil and Cap d'ail need to be considered as part of Monaco, but refuse to proof to officials from other participating countries that they do indeed live there). So the majority of their team consists of athletes that would not even do very well in the French national competitions. They are just like the average Joe getting their regular work out and participating at a sportsevent. When it comes to really participating in the Olympics where they can not bend the rules to their liking, they surprisigly turn up with less then a handful of athletes. Of course those athletes who really are able to compete on higher levels would not even bother sticking around to win a medal for Monaco. They are off elsewhere to train seriously in highclass facilities with the best possible coaches. the sports facilities in Monaco are on a good level for regional purposes and to instill in children the interest in sports, but none of them would be considered good enough for an athlete as a daily training facility if he or she wants to compete in the Olympics. The track is in not a particularly good shape. It is actually quite slow and you would not see famous swimmers or athletes competing at the mare nostrum or the Herculis, if they weren't paid for it. Not to mention that no one likes to compete in an empty stadium. The facilities, when they were new where actually high standard and there were worldrecords broken. But unfortunetely most of the money went into exchanging the lawn several times and none was invested in other facilities. The roof in the pool had to fall on peoples heads in order to cause some awareness. This is the situation in Monaco, what things are like in SA I don't know, but I suppose that SA as well as many other countries has more important problems to look into then insuring the well being of a handful of athletes. Sports facilities are expensive to be built and maintained or even being brought up to a certain standard. At present SA is preparing the football worldchampionships. i doubt that they will be easy on the money for other associations, especially if it doesn't get them on the frontpage for winning a gold. maybe at present SA keeps her in their team (national not olympic) because she attracts media and media means sponsors. It doesn't matter whether she swims or not, but whenever it is mentioned that she swims, she raises awareness for the sport. I am sure that these are difficult times for sports in SA and unless you have worldclass athletes that keep winning gold, you won't see much of government funding. So I think her association and other swimmers might not even think that bad of her as her dating Albert might result in some cash in their pockets. After all in this world most things are about money and sports, although the Olympic spirit does not suppor this, is no exception to the rule. when decisions about sportsfunding are being made it is about medals and the popularity of your sport. Of course olympic gold usually gives a push in popularity ( in France judo and fencing have gained a lot due to their performances, whereas athletics seems to be getting less and less popular due to athletes behaviour, doping cases in general etc etc), but an association that can claim a large number of members is more likely to get money then one that has won a number of medals but is not a popular sport. Some sports might receive next to no funding due to a countries policies. In sports a little has to go along way and the smaller and poorer the country the less funds and the bigger the sacrifices that an athlete and their families have to go through to actually achieve a certain level. As i said I have no way of knowing what the situation is like in SA but even if they deep down do not approve her way of "training", they are probably very happy to take the publicity.

 

[Avalon]

.....
As to being able to join an Olympic team, that all depends on your country and which sport it has focused on supporting mostly. Australians are incredibly big in swimming as are the Netherlands. But what do we know about swimming in SA? Is it very popular? do they receive lots of government funding? what is the situation of sports in general in the country? If you look at Monaco, you will see that recently they had a team of 30 athletes of which only 3 were Monegasque. The team members by representing Monaco do not even have the right to attend school in Monaco. The Monaco officals actually claim that they have no way of proving that an athlete lives in the vicinity of Monaco (they claim that Beausoleil and Cap d'ail need to be considered as part of Monaco, but refuse to proof to officials from other participating countries that they do indeed live there). So the majority of their team consists of athletes that would not even do very well in the French national competitions. They are just like the average Joe getting their regular work out and participating at a sportsevent. When it comes to really participating in the Olympics where they can not bend the rules to their liking, they surprisigly turn up with less then a handful of athletes. Of course those athletes who really are able to compete on higher levels would not even bother sticking around to win a medal for Monaco. They are off elsewhere to train seriously in highclass facilities with the best possible coaches. the sports facilities in Monaco are on a good level for regional purposes and to instill in children the interest in sports, but none of them would be considered good enough for an athlete as a daily training facility if he or she wants to compete in the Olympics. The track is in not a particularly good shape. It is actually quite slow and you would not see famous swimmers or athletes competing at the mare nostrum or the Herculis, if they weren't paid for it. Not to mention that no one likes to compete in an empty stadium. The facilities, when they were new where actually high standard and there were worldrecords broken. But unfortunetely most of the money went into exchanging the lawn several times and none was invested in other facilities. The roof in the pool had to fall on peoples heads in order to cause some awareness. This is the situation in Monaco, what things are like in SA I don't know, but I suppose that SA as well as many other countries has more important problems to look into then insuring the well being of a handful of athletes. Sports facilities are expensive to be built and maintained or even being brought up to a certain standard. At present SA is preparing the football worldchampionships. i doubt that they will be easy on the money for other associations, especially if it doesn't get them on the frontpage for winning a gold. maybe at present SA keeps her in their team (national not olympic) because she attracts media and media means sponsors. It doesn't matter whether she swims or not, but whenever it is mentioned that she swims, she raises awareness for the sport. I am sure that these are difficult times for sports in SA and unless you have worldclass athletes that keep winning gold, you won't see much of government funding. So I think her association and other swimmers might not even think that bad of her as her dating Albert might result in some cash in their pockets. After all in this world most things are about money and sports, although the Olympic spirit does not suppor this, is no exception to the rule. when decisions about sportsfunding are being made it is about medals and the popularity of your sport. Of course olympic gold usually gives a push in popularity ( in France judo and fencing have gained a lot due to their performances, whereas athletics seems to be getting less and less popular due to athletes behaviour, doping cases in general etc etc), but an association that can claim a large number of members is more likely to get money then one that has won a number of medals but is not a popular sport. Some sports might receive next to no funding due to a countries policies. In sports a little has to go along way and the smaller and poorer the country the less funds and the bigger the sacrifices that an athlete and their families have to go through to actually achieve a certain level. As i said I have no way of knowing what the situation is like in SA but even if they deep down do not approve her way of "training", they are probably very happy to take the publicity.

It was very interesting to read your post, especially about the state of swimming in Monaco.

But while I respect your opinion about the SA Olympic swimming team (of which Charlene was a member of), I have to disagree. The team ended 5th in the Final, that is no easy task for any team representing any country. Of course countires like USA, Australia and Great Britian are only aimed at gold, but finishing 5th for South Africa was an achievement. And it was largely due to Charlene they finished in the 5th placed - she was the last to swim and did best of the 4 South African ladies, in my opinion (in the semi-final, Charlene was also the best, securing the spot in the final). That 5th place was the best for South African swimming team in general (both for men and women).

 

[sandsla]

Well after reading through this thread I can see people feel quite strongly and mostly negatively about poor Charlene. I am not entirly sure what the justification is as I assume few if any members have ever met her or talked to her. Most of the information seems to come from tabloids and glossy picture magazines. People say she doesnt train as a swimmer but she seems to have regained her South African champioship in the 50M backstroke and then placed 3rd in a international event over the last couple of months, so unless she in unnaturally gifted I would bet that some training was involved. Even if she never makes it to another Olympic Games she has already demonstrated a level of commitment and achievement very few ever achieve. Then there is the discussion on the age gap. 20 years is indeed a large gap, but not the first time it has ever happened. Do not the Duke and Duchess of Braganza have a large age gap as well and he wasn't exactly young when they married and started a family. Her fashion choices have not always been on the mark but I doubt there is a man or woman alive who has not committed more than one fashion faux pas over the years. I don't know if they wll ever marry, but I bet if they do the same people who have been so quick to criticize will sing her praises once they pop a tiara on her head and dress her in Chanel and Dior. I am curious through if anyone knows if she speaks French or is taking lessons, that after all is one thing that will be required of her if they marry. Grace had to learn it, and never really felt comfortable with the language in interviews.
I think we should give her a break and wait to see if they do marry and she then becomes Princess of Monaco. In the end, no matter who Prince Albert marries they will suffer in comparison to the public image of his mother.

I too find the age gap disturbing, as she is so immature for her own age, I don't see how anyone can take her serious, or Albert for that matter, which is where his problem is in just dating her & where it will be magnified if he decides to marry her?

We have repeated this ad nauseum, but there are always new people on the board where we have to repeat ourselves. So for those who are new only & have not witnessed interviews or photos, etc...

If you do not get the justification of our negative opinions for poor Charlene, maybe you should go back & read her first interview when she chose to introduce herself to us, by going to the media and giving a detailed account of her first date with Albert (which is published on the web for you to read if you choose to). Imo, no women with any self respect or respect for the person who was kind enough to ask her out in the first place, would do such a thing? Especially in Albert's position? She was competing in a swimming event in Monaco yet she apparently did not recognise the accomplishment in her swimming, but rather in her having a date with Albert, that she was proud of enough to detail to the public. I find this behavior ignorant, immature, and of very low character.

If that was not enough to form an opinion, she then chooses to introduce herself to the world at the Olympics, (the first time she will be seen with him in public, widely publicised & televised all over the world) by choosing to hang all over him (like a cheap suit) she even lays her head in his lap while staring into a camera lense? Considering it was just months after he came to reign, amongst some unflattering baggage. I would think this exactly the wrong kind of image he needed at that time & not what he would have wanted to promote? Her exaggerated gestures & even the flattering press described her always as "giggling loudly" everytime he spoke to her? The photos of her seemed to show that she craved publicity as she seemed to play to the camera in a very unattractive & desperate way. She then confirms my opinion once again by her first public comment she chooses to make when asked "How she was enjoying the Olympics in Turin" she answers "It's a great place for lovers" ??? Just in case she was not clear enough in the photos & someone could have missed it? This from a former Olympian, accompaning another former Olympian who is a current member of the IOC? She mentions nothing about the sports at the Olympics??? She pretty much tells us which is the bigger accomplishment for her? When a reporter calls out & ask if they are getting married. She replies, "not yet"? This is her first appearance with him?

Imo, again it seems she does not possess integrity, or even respect for herself in being an athlete? I then came across a previous quote/interview, that must have been at a swimming event in front of the swimmers. When her coach is asked if the SA team will be attending a particular event/competition, he replies "They will be on the bus" but Charlene shoots back, that SHE will be on a yacht! It may or may not have been with Albert, but that does not matter. She is more impressed with herself for being on a yacht instead of her swimming, and she wants everyone to know it.

She has no humilty - She only shows how common & simple minded she really is, imo. She then chooses to let herself be promoted on the cover of Paris Match where she gives an interview, I think it is clear a French publication is not interviewing a South African Swimmer that came in 5th or 3rd place (??) in a relay two Olympics past, 6 yrs prior? She obviously is being promoted by her association with Albert for the reason she so elegantly gave us in Turin. But if that still is not enough necessary for us to form an opinion of her, she again chooses to introduce herself in her first official public appearance in Monaco, where she is accompaning the Reigning Monarch (who is wearing a coat & tie). She shows up inapproprately dressed hanging over the balcony with a cigarette. She shows the same physical behavior, as if she is afraid she is not getting enough focused attention. Always Her hand, on his thigh in public? Of course this is directly after the Maldive photo's appear, which they sued for? I do not put the Maldive expose' on Charlene, but she shows she seems to always be the aggressor, making herself look desperate instead of letting Albert take the lead in showing affection in public, if they feel they must. (Which hinders any efforts for suing for intimate pictures, if they behave in public the way they do in private)

She never seems to be able to accept her status as a guest, instead she acts as if she is the star. Nor does she ever error on the side of being safe or modest in her actions or her manner of dress. She attends the Amade event (childrens charity) dressed up like a carnival ride & was reported to have walked in after Caroline??? The problem is she does not seem to understand that she is just a guest at an event & that SHE is not the event! Her quotes to the press are immature, & meant to cause speculation. Just a month ago, when she asked about her relationship with Albert she claims she is prevented by "royal protocol" from talking (if that wasn't enough) she continues to tell all, apparently "royal protocol" did not prevent her from talking, or worse neither did any since of dignity prevent her from talking? I'm sure there is still more I have left out. But all the public interviews, quotes, & photos are out there for you to read & you can form your own informed opinion of her, and then you may understand why so many of us share the sentiments we do about Charlene.

I really do not care much that she does not have a formal degree, or to what level she participated in the Olympics, or that she does not have a sense of style.

I do not care for Charlene, because she shows she is adolescent, and that she lacks character, and respect for herself or others and she seems to be completely self absorbed. I do not believe she is very genuine and so I cannot believe a designer dress or any amount of training in protocol is going to reverse this. Integrity is something you have, not something you learn. And at her age she should have it & be able to behave like an adult women whomever she dates.

She continually talks about the problems of the SA Team & her own remarks make her appear that she thinks she is above them or she always has an excuse for her lack of attendance or performance - If she is not blaming the SA Team for them.

She shows no humility and imo, has an inflated sense of self importance, without any reason to warrant it.

Many of you seem to give her more credit for her accomplishment in being an athlete than she gives herself - From her own words, she seems to think her accomplishments lie elsewhere?

I think from the last few events for the most part, she finally seems to be able to sit still like a normal person, without trying to draw too much attention to herself, but I hardly think she deserves accolades for it. It's too little, too late & we have had a year and a half to form our opinions. As the saying goes...

It's one thing to be thought a fool, and another to open your mouth and prove it!

 

[WindsorIII]

originally posted by Jaya

Charlene's Wittsock's inclusion in the Olympic team has been noted and lauded if you please read past posts.But enough, one's life should not be defined by this one achievement again and again as if life had no other dimensions just the re-iteration of this event which has been duly noted and praised.

Very true, Very true. I think it is very apparent that no one is disputing that it is commendable that CW when to the Olympics in 2007. But come on people, it was 7 years ago and since then she has done nothing with her life but become a mistress to PA. That is a bit dismal.

Furthermore, her claims to be training and accepting sponsorship monies etc, while she is really just partying IMO is very dishonest and hense shows me that she did not entirely take on all the admirable characteristics of an Olympian.

After reflecting on all of this writing about Olympic athletes I went to our neighbor who is a skater and asked her opinion. She pointed me to the official site of the Olympic movment so I will put those links here.

She explained in great detail how The Internatnional Olympic committee is focusing many of its programs to facilitate life after the Olympics. She said the IOC President, (ironically the man sitting on the other side of PA and CW during the opening of the Games of the Small States last week,) has made it his mission to get the message out that the worst reflection on the Olympic Movement besides drugs, is to have an entire generation of Olympic bums who do nothing with their lives after the Games.

The IOC is spending millions of dollars to make sure athletes don’t turn out like Charlene and will go on to do something else, not just live off the past glory of one event.

http://www.olympic.org/uk/organisation/commissions/athletes/full_story_uk.asp?id=2053

INTERNATIONAL OLYMPIC COMMITTEE - ORGANISATION - STRUCTURES

INTERNATIONAL OLYMPIC COMMITTEE - ORGANISATION - STRUCTURES

The strangest thing of all is, if you look at this commission who is forming these programs and fighting the hardest to encourage athletes to get educations and careers after their sports career is over, Prince Albert himself is part of.

 

[paca]

Avalon, There is an advert, I believe by mercedes, which assembles former champions in their sports (Boris Becker, mika Hakkinen etc etc) who are sitting together discussing sports and winning. One of the older ones says: it is all about winning and being number one. No one wants to be number 2. you give me a number 2 and I show you a loser. And that is basically summing it up. It adds up in the count to win a silver or bronze and is admittedly an achievment to finish in the top ten, some athletes are content when they achieve a personal best and are being allowed to compete with the very best ( the are often just as starstruck as the regular audience), but ultimately the gold is the only metal that counts. even very young children understand that and burst into tears when they don't get it. And it is very disappointing when you are not on top of your abilities or even injured to compete for the gold. My own grandfather was qualified for the Berlin Olympics running the 100m in less then 11secs. He unfortunetely was injured briefly before and could not compete. He never put his running shoes on after the war. He never went to watch his daughter compete in the nationals or any other competition. Only when we were training he would come near the track, but never to see a competition (unless he was secretly hiding in the bushes). All I knew as a child was that he used to be crazy about sports when he was young. He always watched it, like most people I knew, on TV, even the summer he died it appeared as if he had waited for the athletic world championships to be finished. I only learned at the funeral about his sportive past. Not being able to compete was a defeat that he has never overcome. My mother never got over the fact that her children lacked the abilities to compete at least at national level. She saw that as her own personal failure as much as ours. We children ended up, doing nothing related to athletics once we had our own say, not even getting our children signed up. My niece signed herself up and seems to have some talent for her age, so my mother is reconciled with the world, but indeed the fact that my grandfather was not able to compete due to his injury can be felt even generations afterwards. Personally of course I think he should have gotten over it and made the most of it, but that's not who he was. I wonder if Charlene as well had to struggle afterwards due to only being fifth. We know that her relationship broke down afterwards and that she suffered an injury. Now she seems to be hanging on to ALbert for dear life inspite of his infidelities and the humiliations she is being exposed to. Her life might have had a totally different course had she won the gold. Do you think that then she would have accepted to be cheated on or being ignored by Caroline and her family? I even think that these things wouldn't have happened to her in that case. A medal does not change who you are but it changes the way that you are being perceived and of course it gives an incredible boost to your confidence. So without wanting to put down her sportive achievements, there is a large difference between 1st and 5th in the Olympics and not only does the world know it, but most of all she knows it. And IMHO she has not put it aside yet. Otherwise she would not repetitively point out that she wants to be in Beijing. If it was finished in her head she could move on and do sth else with her life. Albert is just sth like an insurrance to her. She needs him more then he needs her ad that makes for quite an imbalanced relationship.