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  #41  
Old 06-01-2011, 03:22 AM
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Originally Posted by SandwichSheik View Post
Not at all. I'm not denying that she's South African of course she is. I'm merely trying to point out that people are painting in awefully broad strokes by refering to her African heritage. Being born on the continent doesn't give you some unique insight into somebody from Nigeria if you're South African especially if you're a white South African. The only thing you have in common is being born on the same continent. There's no shared sensibility.

Charlene is South African for sure but she also grew up during the apartheid years in an all white neighborhood attending an all white school when blacks were second class citizens. That right there gives her a different perspective on life than the majority of South Africans.



lol true especially when you consider how some make their millions by releasing their sextapes and reality tv ala the Kardashians. No class there.
I couldn't agree more with you SandwichSheik! I've never been to South Africa, but my husband did several times for work, besides two cousins of his emigrated to South Africa and came back home three decades ago.
One of them married a black lady from Soweto, but they had to get married here in Italy because of apartheid.

Charlene grew up like any other girl in the western emisphere. She's very little to share with the people from Soweto or other places like that.
If you watched the 2010 World Cup taking place in South Africa, you'd have probably noticed that whilst the stadium terraces were packed up with black people, the white went to watch the Rugby World Championship. So I guess
Charlene has lived in a bubble, like you said.

BTW my cousin not only learned Italian in a few months, but also the local dialect, whilst as far as I can see Charlene still can't speak French fluently despite her 4 year long stay in Monaco.
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  #42  
Old 06-01-2011, 03:39 AM
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Well, very soon, Charlene won't have any excuse left not to improve her French, let alone the local dialect(s).
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  #43  
Old 06-01-2011, 07:54 AM
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Sandwich I agree with you 100 %. (...) Continue to speak the truth.
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  #44  
Old 06-01-2011, 09:26 AM
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But, surely, now that we have a South African almost-Royal, we are bound to be talking about apartheid and similar topics ?

When I started this thread, it was because of the opportunity to find out more about South Africa as a country, and the South Africans who live there, especially one particular South African :-)
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  #45  
Old 06-01-2011, 11:22 AM
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Charlene was born in the former Rhodesia, grew up and spent most of her life in South Africa. Therefore she holds full claim to an African heritage -- irrespective of her experience as a white person. Just because she might not have the "insight" and a "different perspective" (to underprivileged black people), as pointed out by SandwichSheik, doesn't make her any less African. As a matter of fact, her African heritage is something she is clearly very proud of.
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  #46  
Old 06-01-2011, 11:52 AM
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As far as I'm concerned, this discussion as to whether Charlene is a "true" African or not is superfluous.

I'm a white guy that has lived in middle class America all my life. The discussion is trying to make the point that just because a black woman who has lived on welfare most of her life and I don't have the same experiences one of us is not American. That's silly!
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  #47  
Old 06-01-2011, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by smdouglas View Post
As far as I'm concerned, this discussion as to whether Charlene is a "true" African or not is superfluous.

I'm a white guy that has lived in middle class America all my life. The discussion is trying to make the point that just because a black woman who has lived on welfare most of her life and I don't have the same experiences one of us is not American. That's silly!
Totally agree. That's the point I tried to make too.
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  #48  
Old 06-01-2011, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by smdouglas View Post
As far as I'm concerned, this discussion as to whether Charlene is a "true" African or not is superfluous.

I'm a white guy that has lived in middle class America all my life. The discussion is trying to make the point that just because a black woman who has lived on welfare most of her life and I don't have the same experiences one of us is not American. That's silly!
I don't think that was what Sheik was saying at all.

Even a White woman who has lived most of HER life on welfare in Appalachia or Missisippi will have a different American experience than a Black woman who has lived most of her life in New York on welfare...but it doesn't make either woman less American.

The only thing that they really have in common though besides that is their sex..AND their low socio-economic status.

BTW...I am certain that you meant no bias by the example you used, but Black women are not the only people in this country who benefit or have benefited from welfare.

I am not even sure that the majority of the people in this country on public assistance are Black.
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  #49  
Old 06-01-2011, 02:32 PM
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Of course, Charlene will have had plenty of encounters with black people in France and Monaco and Italy.
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  #50  
Old 06-01-2011, 03:17 PM
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You are right, but people are people and many of the same "background" , will percieve things, idfferently, too.
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  #51  
Old 06-01-2011, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
I don't think that was what Sheik was saying at all.

Even a White woman who has lived most of HER life on welfare in Appalachia or Missisippi will have a different American experience than a Black woman who has lived most of her life in New York on welfare...but it doesn't make either woman less American.

The only thing that they really have in common though besides that is their sex..AND their low socio-economic status.

BTW...I am certain that you meant no bias by the example you used, but Black women are not the only people in this country who benefit or have benefited from welfare.

I am not even sure that the majority of the people in this country on public assistance are Black.
You take me too literally. Every single one of us has different experiences. Part of life is exploring those. The point of my comments is that in any group (South African, left handed mechanics, or purple cross-eyed taxi drivers) is made up of people with different experiences. I think part of what we are discussing are those differences.

I'm intrigued by the info provided by several of us in this thread. Although the palace has provided some biographical info on the Princely Wedding Site (Biographical details for Ms. Charlene Lynette Wittstock), the details provided by others is even more interesting to me.
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  #52  
Old 06-02-2011, 10:09 AM
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When I started this thread, I did initially look for information about what it must have been like to have to move from Zimbabwe to Benoni. Now, the journey has broadened out, and new challenges are in the offing.

CW will experience many more people and places than she may have expected.
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  #53  
Old 06-03-2011, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smdouglas View Post
You take me too literally. Every single one of us has different experiences. Part of life is exploring those. The point of my comments is that in any group (South African, left handed mechanics, or purple cross-eyed taxi drivers) is made up of people with different experiences. I think part of what we are discussing are those differences.

I'm intrigued by the info provided by several of us in this thread. Although the palace has provided some biographical info on the Princely Wedding Site (Biographical details for Ms. Charlene Lynette Wittstock), the details provided by others is even more interesting to me.

I didn't find anywhere informations about her education. Which university did Charlene attend in South Africa? What is her degree?
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  #54  
Old 06-04-2011, 09:55 AM
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Please note that posts regarding Charlene's education have been moved to Charlene Wittstock's Education & Swimming Career .

All off topic posts regarding racism have been deleted.

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  #55  
Old 06-10-2011, 01:06 PM
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Madrid, I think we have established that she did not attend university.

We might have to give her the benefit of the doubt, and to hope that she will improve herself, with the endless interesting opportunities she will have.

It's worth pointing out that a university degree is not mandatory. There are other chances to broaden one's knowledge of people, literature etc.
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  #56  
Old 06-10-2011, 01:19 PM
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I'll second that, Renata. But, there are some areas that do require it. I don't think a prerequisite for a Princess is a university degree.
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  #57  
Old 06-12-2011, 04:23 AM
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Well, it would help .... but it's not essential, IMO.

Charlene could acquire knowledge about the various disabilities of Special Olympics competitors.

She could take tailor-made courses in Sport Science. There are universities with such programmes, short/medium/long.....

She could learn to counsel athletes.....
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  #58  
Old 06-21-2011, 12:06 PM
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Future Princess of Monaco is a descendant of pirates

Article in French
English translation
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  #59  
Old 06-21-2011, 01:13 PM
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WOW!!! Even more to like about Charlene!
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  #60  
Old 06-27-2011, 06:14 AM
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Jason Hartman is a singer from South Africa, and he will be singing before the Eagles Concert.
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