The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #381  
Old 07-05-2009, 08:09 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto (ON) & London (UK), Canada
Posts: 5,261
Succession is by primogeniture...Caroline and her 4 children and then Stephanie and her first 2 children (Camille is not in the line of succession). Only legitimate children may succeed so Camille could only enter the line if Stephanie were to marry the father. In the event a minor were to succeed to the throne a Regent would need to be appointed. Rainer made Grace the Regent should Albert have succeeded as a minor.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #382  
Old 07-05-2009, 10:11 PM
oxygen's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, United States
Posts: 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by starnightsky View Post
If Princess Caroline dies before her brother, then what is the chain of succession? Does it go to Princess Stephanie or to Andrea?
Andrea for he is in line after his mother.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #383  
Old 10-03-2010, 08:44 AM
texankitcat's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dallas, United States
Posts: 693
Line of Succession Monegasque throne

The fact that Prince Albert is in his 50's and has yet to produce a legitimate heir to the throne of Monaco, I have wondered what will happen to the line of succession. According to the line of succession below, the throne would pass to Caroline and then to her children should Albert pass prior to producing an heir. Of course now that Albert is to be married to Charlene next year, any children resulting from the marriage would be in direct line to the throne.

Albert will be 53 when he weds Charlene. Providing Charlene becomes pregnant within a year or two after their marriage, Albert would be 55 or 56 before he produces a legitimate heir. That is rather old to start a family when you are a Reining Prince. Taking this into consideration, if he were to pass before his heir was old enough or matue enough to take over the throne, and if Caroline were to also pass prior to that time, would it then pass to Caroline's eldest son (currently #2) until the legitimate heir is of age?









Current Monarch: Albert II
  1. HRH The Princess of Hanover, Hereditary Princess of Monaco, elder sister of the Prince
  2. Andrea Casiraghi, elder son of the Princess of Hanover and Stefano Casiraghi
  3. Pierre Casiraghi, younger son of the Princess of Hanover and Stefano Casiraghi
  4. Charlotte Casiraghi, daughter of the Princess of Hanover and Stefano Casiraghi
  5. HRH Princess Alexandra of Hanover, daughter of the Prince and Princess of Hanover
  6. HSH Princess Stéphanie of Monaco, younger sister of the Prince
  7. Louis Ducruet, son of Princess Stéphanie and Daniel Ducruet
  8. Pauline Ducruet, daughter of Princess Stéphanie and Daniel Ducruet
All of the above would be moved down the list if Albert II were to father a legitimate child.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #384  
Old 10-03-2010, 09:50 AM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Carlton, York, United Kingdom
Posts: 17,106
Quote:
Originally Posted by texankitcat View Post
Of course now that Albert is to be married to Charlotte next year, any children resulting from the marriage would be in direct line to the throne.

Albert will be 53 when he weds Charlotte. Providing Charlotte becomes pregnant within a year or two after their marriage,
He's marrying Charlene Wittstock, not Charlotte Wittstock.
__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #385  
Old 10-03-2010, 09:59 AM
Stefan's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Esslingen, Germany
Posts: 2,337
Quote:
Originally Posted by texankitcat View Post
The fact that Prince Albert is in his 50's and has yet to produce a ligitimate heir to the throne of Monaco, I have wondered what will happen to the line of succession. According to the line of succession below, the throne would pass to Caroline and then to her children should Albert pass prior to producing an heir. Of course now that Albert is to be married to Charlotte next year, any children resulting from the marriage would be in direct line to the throne.

Albert will be 53 when he weds Charlotte. Providing Charlotte becomes pregnant within a year or two after their marriage, Albert would be 55 or 56 before he produces a legitimate heir. That is rather old to start a family when you are a Reining Prince. Taking this into consideration, if he were to pass before his heir was old enough or matue enough to take over the throne, and if Caroline were to also pass prior to that time, would it then pass to Caroline's eldest son (currently #2) until the legitimate heir is of age?






Current Monarch: Albert II
  1. HRH The Princess of Hanover, Hereditary Princess of Monaco, elder sister of the Prince
  2. Andrea Casiraghi, elder son of the Princess of Hanover and Stefano Casiraghi
  3. Pierre Casiraghi, younger son of the Princess of Hanover and Stefano Casiraghi
  4. Charlotte Casiraghi, daughter of the Princess of Hanover and Stefano Casiraghi
  5. HRH Princess Alexandra of Hanover, daughter of the Prince and Princess of Hanover
  6. HSH Princess Stéphanie of Monaco, younger sister of the Prince
  7. Louis Ducruet, son of Princess Stéphanie and Daniel Ducruet
  8. Pauline Ducruet, daughter of Princess Stéphanie and Daniel Ducruet
All of the above would be moved down the list if Albert II were to father a legitimate child.
If Albert passes away before a child from his and Charlene is 18 this child will become the new Prince/Princess but a regency is needed. Don't know how it is in Monaco if Charlene would then become the Regent )like in the Ndetherlands when Queen Emma became Regent for her daughter Wilhelmine) or the next adult in line of succession as it is in some other monarchies.
__________________
Stefan

Royal Travel and Events

Reply With Quote
  #386  
Old 10-03-2010, 11:45 AM
texankitcat's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dallas, United States
Posts: 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
He's marrying Charlene Wittstock, not Charlotte Wittstock.
My apologies. I will correct. :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
If Albert passes away before a child from his and Charlene is 18 this child will become the new Prince/Princess but a regency is needed. Don't know how it is in Monaco if Charlene would then become the Regent )like in the Ndetherlands when Queen Emma became Regent for her daughter Wilhelmine) or the next adult in line of succession as it is in some other monarchies.
I wouldn't think Charlene would be qualified to act as Regent. She was not born or raised in Monaco and does not have the education or training required to act as Regent. Monaco is unique in that the Reining Prince has legislative, constitutional, judiciary and executive power. Albert was well educated and trained for this role. Caroline would be the most qauilfied to act as Regent should anything happen to PA prior to a legitimate heir being ready to assume the Regency, however she is also older than Albert.

It's an interesting scenario to ponder considering Albert is marrying at 53 and does not currently have a legitimate heir.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #387  
Old 12-06-2010, 02:43 PM
MRSJ's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: ******, United States
Posts: 1,844
Well in all likelihood many of us we'll probably get to see this play out at least some what considering how old PA is, and we will know in a few years whether CW and him have kids so....we may very well get to see Andrea crowned or PA's children....
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #388  
Old 12-06-2010, 02:46 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Posts: 1,398
Well, technically Monaco doesn't have a crown, so Andrea cannot be "crowned" Besides why would he be crowned when his mother is still alive and if women cannot inherit the throne, then how come PCaroline is the Hereditary Princess right now?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #389  
Old 12-06-2010, 02:57 PM
MRSJ's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: ******, United States
Posts: 1,844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte_Aster View Post
Well, technically Monaco doesn't have a crown, so Andrea cannot be "crowned" Besides why would he be crowned when his mother is still alive and if women cannot inherit the throne, then how come PCaroline is the Hereditary Princess right now?

Opps sorry- meant takes the throne-

Sorry should have mentioned in my post I am assuming if PA dies without heir and Caroline pre-deceases myself (or anyone else who is prob so young she'll be assume throne and then so will Andrea)-so we may get to see her inherit the throne and then Andrea- like in England, assuming Charles is crowned he could only be King a few years and considering I am William's age, barring some huge diaster I will probably live to see both Charles and William crowned- I didn't mean to skip PCaroline, That's what I meant by see this play out-sorry for confusion.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #390  
Old 12-06-2010, 03:11 PM
lancchick's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 419
Men have children in their 50s. It happens. What's up the age discrimination?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #391  
Old 12-06-2010, 04:08 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Posts: 1,398
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRSJ View Post
Opps sorry- meant takes the throne-

Sorry should have mentioned in my post I am assuming if PA dies without heir and Caroline pre-deceases myself (or anyone else who is prob so young she'll be assume throne and then so will Andrea)-so we may get to see her inherit the throne and then Andrea- like in England, assuming Charles is crowned he could only be King a few years and considering I am William's age, barring some huge diaster I will probably live to see both Charles and William crowned- I didn't mean to skip PCaroline, That's what I meant by see this play out-sorry for confusion.
That's OK!
But I have a question. I read that according to the succession law, the sovereign prince must bare the name Grimaldi. That's why, if Caroline becomes Sovereign Princess of Monaca, she has to revert to her maiden name, whilst being able to keep her HRH title. However, would Andrea need to change his lastname from Casiraghi to GRrimaldi?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #392  
Old 12-06-2010, 04:37 PM
MRSJ's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: ******, United States
Posts: 1,844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte_Aster

That's OK!
But I have a question. I read that according to the succession law, the sovereign prince must bare the name Grimaldi. That's why, if Caroline becomes Sovereign Princess of Monaca, she has to revert to her maiden name, whilst being able to keep her HRH title. However, would Andrea need to change his lastname from Casiraghi to GRrimaldi?
Oh I just read this on Wikipedia and I believe it said he would have too. It also said he would become HSH and can not carry the HRH since the title is his mothers by marriage :) Please some correct me if I sm wrong because Wiki is not always reliable
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #393  
Old 12-06-2010, 04:54 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 1,320
If PC became ruler all of the Casiraghis automatically become Prince/Princess and their names will be changed to Grimaldi. Not trying to kill off PA.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #394  
Old 12-06-2010, 04:58 PM
Lenora's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 2,056
Quote:
Originally Posted by FanofMonaco View Post
If PC became ruler all of the Casiraghis automatically become Prince/Princess and their names will be changed to Grimaldi. Not trying to kill off PA.
I wonder why their surnames are not Casiraghi-Grimaldi,as for example are Bhutto-Zardari or Windsor-Mountbatten
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #395  
Old 12-06-2010, 05:43 PM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Carlton, York, United Kingdom
Posts: 17,106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenora View Post
I wonder why their surnames are not Casiraghi-Grimaldi,as for example are Bhutto-Zardari or Windsor-Mountbatten
Because Caroline chose to allow her children to have her husbands surname, seeing as they don't have royal titles why have the surname?
__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #396  
Old 12-10-2010, 04:01 AM
Bones's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Laredo, United States
Posts: 459
One difference is that the Grimaldis are not an actual "royal" house but were a noble family raised to princely status. Princess Caroline married a commoner (albeit an elite one and totally normal for the Grimaldis) and thus their children bore the surname of their father. If any were to succeed to the throne, say if Andrea were to become "Prince Albert III" he would have to take the name Grimaldi. This all goes back far into the history of the dynasty to Seigneur Jean I of Monaco who put forward their first law of succession on April 5, 1454 which restricted the succession to legitimate male offspring of the Grimaldi family in order of birth. It further stated that any man, not of the family, would have to renounce his own house and take for himself and his descendants the surname and coat of arms of the House of Grimaldi.

It is, however, not uncommon to find family lines named in such a way by historians to avoid confusion. For example they will at times refer to the recent line of the Princely Family as 'Grimaldi-Mantignon' to refer to the line descending from Prince Jacques I or 'Grimaldi-Poliganc' to refer to Prince Rainier III and Prince Albert II who are descended from the Duc d'Polignac.

__________________
"Oh, God, I could be bounded in a nutshell, and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams".
Reply With Quote
  #397  
Old 12-10-2010, 10:53 AM
Nathalie Cox's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: in a corner of ..., Argentina
Posts: 2,702
If Andrea were to take the throne some day (let's suppose) he would change his surname to Grimaldi....and his siblings? They would still be Casiraghis? Andrea could name them Prince/ss? Is that up to him?
__________________
* * The eyes are the mirror of the soul* *
The Impossible is what the mind can not imagine ...
Reply With Quote
  #398  
Old 12-10-2010, 11:18 AM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 1,320
They would be Grimaldis and Prince/Princess automatically.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #399  
Old 12-24-2010, 12:38 PM
Nathalie Cox's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: in a corner of ..., Argentina
Posts: 2,702
Quote:
Originally Posted by texankitcat View Post
I wouldn't think Charlene would be qualified to act as Regent. She was not born or raised in Monaco and does not have the education or training required to act as Regent. Monaco is unique in that the Reining Prince has legislative, constitutional, judiciary and executive power. Albert was well educated and trained for this role. Caroline would be the most qauilfied to act as Regent should anything happen to PA prior to a legitimate heir being ready to assume the Regency, however she is also older than Albert.

It's an interesting scenario to ponder considering Albert is marrying at 53 and does not currently have a legitimate heir.
Exactly, Charlene is not qualified, she lacks of education to act like a regent, and supposing that Albert dies (God forbid) when his kid is minor, but Caroline is still alive...it's up to Albert to decide (previous to his death, of course) who he wants to act as regent. As Caroline will be older too, maybe he would choose Andrea or Pierre to act as regent till his kid is 18 years old or more.
__________________
* * The eyes are the mirror of the soul* *
The Impossible is what the mind can not imagine ...
Reply With Quote
  #400  
Old 01-05-2011, 09:35 PM
CasiraghiTrio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Burbank, United States
Posts: 6,402
The 1911 constitutional centennial is this year. Prince Albert said in his New Year address that he won't "erase neither past nor present, but will prolong them." He eluded however to each generation adding a stone to the structure, from a desire to make improvements and do better than their predecessors. He did not mention the 2002 revision but this is what I immediately thought about. I wonder if he has any intentions of making improvements of his own. I think restoring some of the 1911 rules makes a lot of sense. Doesn't the 2002 constitution erase the 1911 adoption clause and make it impossible for "natural" descendants to inherit the throne? Another thing I'd love to see changed is the primogeniture! Monaco should have the equal geniture succession law that other monarchies (I know Monaco is a principality) like Norway adopted. I think this would be a great improvement on past generations! Then the succession would be: 1) Caroline, 2) Andrea, 3)Charlotte; instead of 3) being Pierre over Charlotte.
__________________

__________________
Chewsteraghi on Tumblr. Schmichaelira on Twitter. Tumblr aka obsessivechewsteraghidisorder. Be warned: I'm weird.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Stuart Succession and Jacobite Pretenders hillary_nugent British Royal History 132 06-30-2014 09:55 PM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
birth bourbon-parma charlene chris o'neill crown prince felipe crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events engagement fashion grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta elena infanta sofia jewellery jordan kate middleton king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg olympics ottoman picture of the month pieter van vollenhoven pom prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince felipe prince floris prince maurits prince pieter-christiaan princess alexia (2005 -) princess anita princess ariane princess beatrix princess catharina-amalia princess charlene princess laurentien princess letizia princess mabel princess madeleine princess margriet princess mary princess of asturias queen anne-marie queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit wedding



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:40 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]