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  #1061  
Old 03-26-2012, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EIIR View Post
The footballer Fabrice Muamba suffered a cardiac arrest on the pitch, stopped breathing and his heart stopped beating for 78 minutes. He has, however, made a good recovery so far and is sitting up and able to speak.

Maybe the 2 situations are completely different, but does anyone with medical knowledge know why Muamba has apparently come through but Friso has not?
I would assume that it has something to do with the fact that Muamba got almost immediate attention, whereas Friso did not receive attention for several minutes because he was buried under the snow. But I am no doctor, so perhaps someone else could comment if they know better than I do.
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  #1062  
Old 03-26-2012, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luisianna

I would assume that it has something to do with the fact that Muamba got almost immediate attention, whereas Friso did not receive attention for several minutes because he was buried under the snow. But I am no doctor, so perhaps someone else could comment if they know better than I do.
Yea, they started resuscitation efforts almost immediately so his brain wasn't deprived of oxygen like Friso's.
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  #1063  
Old 03-26-2012, 11:18 AM
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But, if his heart's not beating for 78 minutes, surely there's no oxygen reaching his brain as the blood isn't pumping. Forgive me if this is a stupid question, my medical knowledge is non-existant.
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  #1064  
Old 03-26-2012, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by EIIR
But, if his heart's not beating for 78 minutes, surely there's no oxygen reaching his brain as the blood isn't pumping. Forgive me if this is a stupid question, my medical knowledge is non-existant.
CPR keeps the blood artificially circulating. As soon as CPR was started, his brain was receiving oxygen.
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  #1065  
Old 03-26-2012, 01:32 PM
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I personally think the questions regarding Mumba are legitimate.

I am not a doctor, but from what I can gather...the difference in the condition of Mumba and Prince Friso is that took some time to resuscitate Prince Friso. I thought Mumba was out for 78 seconds not minutes and Friso was out for about 30 minutes to an hour.
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  #1066  
Old 03-26-2012, 02:03 PM
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Thank you, Zonk. Perhaps I'm not so stupid as certain posters think.

No, Muamba was out for 78 minutes, his heart didn't begin beating again until after he arrived at hospital. I had read in numerous articles that doctors were worried about brain damage because he had been deprived of oxygen for some time. That's where I thought the comparison with Friso came in.
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  #1067  
Old 03-26-2012, 02:17 PM
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Friso was buried for 25 minutes without oxygen and then when he was taken out of the area, it took another 50 minutes to rescusitate him. Those 25 minutes were very critical. The other fellow received immediate care and CPR.
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  #1068  
Old 03-26-2012, 02:17 PM
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I do remember reading that there was concern that Muamba had experienced brain damage as well. I thought he wasn't out as long as Friso.

I am sure there is probably more information regarding Friso's condition that we are not privy to that is making the difference. Maybe it was the difference in body temp? With these type of accidents or even brain damage I am sure there are no two cases that are exactly alike.

Either way, its a shame that Friso's outlook isn't the same as Muamba's.
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  #1069  
Old 03-26-2012, 02:20 PM
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Friso was buried for 25 critcal minutes, before they rescued him and then underwent 50 minutes of resuscitation. That makes a big difference.
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  #1070  
Old 03-26-2012, 02:26 PM
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Yes perhaps that was it.
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  #1071  
Old 03-26-2012, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
I personally think the questions regarding Mumba are legitimate.

I am not a doctor, but from what I can gather...the difference in the condition of Mumba and Prince Friso is that took some time to resuscitate Prince Friso. I thought Mumba was out for 78 seconds not minutes and Friso was out for about 30 minutes to an hour.
Totally agree, the two are related if for no other reason than both are well know people who suffered very public accidents involving a stopped heart. Mumba is said to be doing very well, if only we could say the same for Friso. I think the difference was that Mumba received immediate care and his heart was kept going artificially from within minutes where as Friso was under the snow without nay help and a stopped heart for much much longer. Hopefully Friso will make at least some small steps towards recovery soon.

I think we all need to remember that the forums are an open FORUM for people to share their thoughts and ideas and shouting people down because they don't agree with some one else in unhelpful, unkind and unnecessary.
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  #1072  
Old 03-26-2012, 03:08 PM
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Friso's recovery is probably not possible. But we have no idea what the family is thinking or going through. And Lucien is a very nice fellow, he is just sensative to this.
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  #1073  
Old 03-26-2012, 03:27 PM
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Muamba was also incredibly lucky in that a cardiologist Spurs fan was in the crowd and was allowed onto the pitch to tend to him. The cardiologist actually works in the hospital where Muamba is now being treated. I suppose on an off piste ski slope the chances of this kind of luck are much reduced.

Muamba's recovery is still being described as a miracle though. It's so sad that it appears Friso has so little hope of the same good fortune.
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  #1074  
Old 03-26-2012, 03:33 PM
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Apples and oranges. No comparison, except it was a major cardiac arrest. The prince suffered extreme hypoxia.
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  #1075  
Old 03-26-2012, 04:00 PM
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Did we discuss this before....what is extreme hypoxia?

Definitely there is a difference between the conditions of Friso and Muamba, but at the core it appeared that for both of them...the heart stopped beating for a period of time. Of course the major differences are the circumstances of the incident's, the temperature and everything else that happened as a result (ie. Friso was buried, Muamba collapsed, how quick they received medical attention, etc.)

But from what I can understand, if you take the everything else out of it....at some point both of their hearts stopped beating....I think its a fair question to ask why one has a chance of recovery and one does not. But as previously pointed out all the "other stuff (for lack of a better phrase) makes a huge difference.

Yes, you can be sensitive to the subject but that doesn't mean that you can act any way you want. That's not cool.
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  #1076  
Old 03-26-2012, 04:08 PM
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Hypoxia is deprivation of oxygen to the body. It actually causes the cells to die. In Friso's case- he went with no medical attention for about half an hour, which means his brain cells were deprived of oxygen for that period. Those cells died off and that damage is irreversible.

In the other case- medical attention was administered right away. He could not breathe on his own and his heart couldn't beat, but CPR was administered and so was artificial respiration so the cells were still getting oxygen, which kept them from dying and causing permanent damage.

This is why everyone should learn CPR and other basic first aid. When done properly, it does change outcomes and save lives.

It's unfortunate that the circumstances around Friso's accident didn't allow for a better outcome.
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  #1077  
Old 03-26-2012, 04:13 PM
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Thank you HRHHermonie! So definitely the key minutes when they were digging Friso out made a difference.
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  #1078  
Old 03-26-2012, 04:19 PM
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Oh, absoluetly. In those 25 minutes, which for the brain is huge, the denial of oxygen causes severe, irreversible damage.
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  #1079  
Old 03-26-2012, 04:22 PM
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Thank you for your clear explanation, HRHHermione. I didn't mean to annoy anyone with my question.
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  #1080  
Old 03-26-2012, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EIIR View Post
Thank you for your clear explanation, HRHHermione. I didn't mean to annoy anyone with my question.
I've been wondering about similarities between Prince Friso and Muamba's cases as well.
For some time, given Muamba's recovery, I thought there might still be hope for the Prince; unfortunately, HRHHermione and Countess's highly informative posts dashed those hopes.
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