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  #701  
Old 02-24-2012, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Morphine View Post
No one here wants him to die or is hoping for the worst. We're not monsters. What we're doing is discussing all possible outcomes, removing him from life support being one of them. Several of us here have already said we've been in similar situations to what Friso's family is in right now, and have had to make painful choices. All we're doing is saying we understand what they're going through and what the road in front of them is like.

Also, just because they're talking about moving him to a rehab facility doesn't mean there's necessarily hope for survival. Of course they want him to live, everyone wants a loved one who is in this position to live. That doesn't mean though, that he will live. You can't go through life only ever seeing one option when you come to a fork in the road. You have to know, understand, and accept that there might be decisions to make that are difficult and uncomfortable.

This is all valid discussion, but if you don't wish to participate then you don't have to. Don't tell the rest of us we can't.
I never told anyone what to do - so please don't get personal on such a serious issue.

I understand that people want to go through all possibilities. But as some who might have more medical knowledge pointed out here, we do not know whether or not he is on life support. I am not a doctor - I can't judge on matters like these and I don't want to judge on them. All I am thinking of is the decency of the family who at this point, where the prognosis is so devasting, goes through hell most likely.

.
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  #702  
Old 02-24-2012, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by kalnel View Post
I thought that was one of the most shocking statements he made -- it sounded almost like he was criticizing the efforts of the team that kept trying to resuscitate Prince Friso. Very unusual to hear doctors speak critically (at least in front of patients) about care.

That's right. Give a young, strong, healthy man every chance for a miracle. There's plenty of time to decide he's done. And, sadly, anyone in such a state would have many medical issues that could change things even without a decision.

I find this a curious statement. What do you mean "he's done."? Do you wait years and years like the Terry Schiavo case in America, then decide it's time to pull the feeding tube out? How fair is that to his children? How do you explain to his children that "Daddy's not getting better, even though he's had a feeding tube for X number of years. So, we've decided to pull the feeding tube out and let him starve to death"?

"He's done" makes him sound like a steak on the grill.

What makes you think he is not being given every chance for a miracle at this moment?

This not meant as a personal attack, just responding to your statement "he's done."
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  #703  
Old 02-24-2012, 09:48 PM
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From what I've understood, the medical prognosis is that Friso has suffered massive brain damage and also went into cardiac arrest. At this point they are yet unsure that he will ever come out of the coma.

Although this news is very saddening and I've had Friso and his family in my thoughts and prayers today, I can't help but hold onto a little glimmer of hope. I see that there is a big difference between massive brain damage (which was what was stated) and brain dead or PVS (perhaps insinuated??). Do we even really know that he is on life support of any kind?

My mind keeps drifting back to the movie "Regarding Henry". I finally looked up information on it, and to me, the similarities between "Henry" and Friso are somewhat eerily similar.

Running out to buy cigarettes one night, he is shot when he interrupts a convenience store robbery in progress. One bullet hits his right frontal lobe, which controls some behavior and restraint, while the other pierces his chest and hits his left subclavian vein, causing excessive internal bleeding and cardiac arrest. He experiences anoxia, a lack of oxygen to the brain, resulting in brain damage.

I know Regarding Henry is a work of fiction... a movie and no two cases are alike or treated alike and there are all kinds of different factors but to me it does offer a glimmer of hope. Just the word damaged alone to me suggests possible rehabilitation of some kind perhaps.
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  #704  
Old 02-24-2012, 09:59 PM
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I have spent the last 2 days on the swedish board and to come in hear is like going from a family "living on clouds" to family who are "living in the deepest dark". I've read through the thread so i know what has happened and I feel so sorry for Mabel, Their daughters, Beatrix, W-A, Constantijn and the whole dutch royal family. I pray that Frisos body and soul will find peace, wether it os hear with us or with his father in gods heaven. I also pray that god will keep the dutch royal family in his holy light and give them the strength and power they need to be able to go through this.
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  #705  
Old 02-24-2012, 10:02 PM
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What terribly sad news. This is a most delicate situation and saying this might seem inappropriate but I wonder if they will decide Prince Friso's new location depending on the laws and the ways some decision regarding termination of life support, etc. are handled. I lean toward thinking that they'll bring him to the Netherlands as soon as it is possible to move him.
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  #706  
Old 02-24-2012, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
I was wondering about that: is it usual in such cases to resustitate?

Or did the team do so only because he was royalty?
In many cases there's an unspoken Do not resusitate order, because they already know the odds of someone surviving without brain damage after being deprived of oxygen for so long. Perhaps being a VIP worked against Friso.??
I took "one can say too long" to mean being buried for 25 minutes without oxygen, not the 50 minutes of resuscitation.

I agree there is a big difference between massive brain damage and being brain-dead. However, quality of life is what matters. Not just for Friso, but for Mabel, the girls, and the entire family. It's not a life to go see you husband or father every day in a hospice and not be able to receive a hug or kiss, or know that they understand when you're telling them about your day.
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  #707  
Old 02-24-2012, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naggi View Post
I understand that people want to go through all possibilities. But as some who might have more medical knowledge pointed out here, we do not know whether or not he is on life support. I am not a doctor - I can't judge on matters like these and I don't want to judge on them. All I am thinking of is the decency of the family who at this point, where the prognosis is so devasting, goes through hell most likely.
People will speculate, whether it is in an open forum as this or at home/work etc in a more private setting or in newspapers, and I think the DRF are aware of people are interested in prince Friso's condition and will speculate about what will happen in the future, maybe the information given Friday was a way to prepare the public for what may come.
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  #708  
Old 02-24-2012, 10:42 PM
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I agree, Countess, the road ahead is anything but easy. I wish Princess Mabel strength..My own mom was in an artificially induced coma ( after she broke down with pulmonary embolism and was dead for 5 min) yet she came out of it but lost her battle in the end after fighting for 4 months.. Hard months with definite brain damage..:(Family support is very important and the Dutch royal family seems to be very close knit..
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  #709  
Old 02-24-2012, 11:03 PM
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Some of the Americans here might remember the case of Martha "Sunny" von Bulow, the unfortunate heiress who went into insulin shock, a coma and then persistent vegetative state for 25 years before dying(Her husband was accused of withholding the insulin and sending her into shock. A movie was made with Jeremy Irons in the role of Claus von Bulow, her husband)

In a persistent vegetative state, the patient is not technically dead, but they are not alive either. Mrs Von Bulow's children visited her daily at Lenox Hill Hospital in NYC to talk to her, sing to her, read to her. She obviously received the best attention money could buy...but other than blink her eyes and respond to very basic stimuli the poor woman was gone the minute she entered that coma in 1979.

Friso is younger than SVB and could possibly stay in a PVS for many years...but I don't want to think about how awful that would be for himself and his family. I am terrified for Queen Beatrix, she looks as if she has aged 10 years in one week.

May the Lord have mercy on his poor distraught family, and on the prince himself.

One week ago tonight he was a young man in his prime with everything you could want...health, lovely children, an apparently happy marriage...and now it's all over.

Life is so precious and so fragile.
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  #710  
Old 02-24-2012, 11:11 PM
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There is also his corporate family in the UK who will now have to look for a new leader.
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  #711  
Old 02-24-2012, 11:11 PM
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I pray . . . May all members of the family be strengthen in their faith and be united in heart and mind, as they journey through this tragedy.
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  #712  
Old 02-25-2012, 12:12 AM
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It is really unbelievable, how absolute happiness (Princess Estelle) and deeper then deep sorrow (Prince Friso) in 2 Royal Families are happening so close to each other.
Whereas my heart jumps with CP Victoria I am sooooo sad about what happened to Prince Friso and the dreadful and devastating news after one week of mixed hope and pain.
BYe Bine
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  #713  
Old 02-25-2012, 12:22 AM
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How sad for the Dutch Family! My condolences goes to them. Prince Friso is so young too.
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  #714  
Old 02-25-2012, 01:31 AM
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Poor Mabel, she looks so devistated and those poor little girls. I can't imagine what they must be going through right now.
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  #715  
Old 02-25-2012, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duchess of Durham View Post
I find this a curious statement. What do you mean "he's done."? Do you wait years and years like the Terry Schiavo case in America, then decide it's time to pull the feeding tube out? How fair is that to his children? How do you explain to his children that "Daddy's not getting better, even though he's had a feeding tube for X number of years. So, we've decided to pull the feeding tube out and let him starve to death"?

"He's done" makes him sound like a steak on the grill.

What makes you think he is not being given every chance for a miracle at this moment?

This not meant as a personal attack, just responding to your statement "he's done."
I'm sorry the language offended you, but I didn't mean it disrespectfully. I meant "done living."

Apart from that, you're jumping to a lot of conclusions and reading into what I said.

I am not implying that he's not being given every chance. My point was just to agree with an earlier post that said there's no reason for the family to rush through this process.

I'm not suggesting that the family should or shouldn't act at all, especially on any particular timetable. That's for them to decide.
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  #716  
Old 02-25-2012, 02:32 AM
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What tragic news, in the prime of his life! so sad hope for a miracle!and strenght for this fanily!
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  #717  
Old 02-25-2012, 03:23 AM
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Looking at the fact that the prince had to be resucitated for nearly an hour (50 min) and the devastating dammage to his brain caused by the lack of oxygen, the possibility of waking up out of the coma are practically nihil.
To wake up out of such a coma would be a miracle.
That means medically that after two weeks from now on the prince will dy or fall into a PVS.
I understand that the cardiac arrest took place before the body cooled to a temperature that could have permitted to reduce brain dammage. That was what gave them hope.
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  #718  
Old 02-25-2012, 03:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Some of the Americans here might remember the case of Martha "Sunny" von Bulow, the unfortunate heiress who went into insulin shock, a coma and then persistent vegetative state for 25 years before dying(Her husband was accused of withholding the insulin and sending her into shock. A movie was made with Jeremy Irons in the role of Claus von Bulow, her husband)

In a persistent vegetative state, the patient is not technically dead, but they are not alive either. Mrs Von Bulow's children visited her daily at Lenox Hill Hospital in NYC to talk to her, sing to her, read to her. She obviously received the best attention money could buy...but other than blink her eyes and respond to very basic stimuli the poor woman was gone the minute she entered that coma in 1979.

Friso is younger than SVB and could possibly stay in a PVS for many years...but I don't want to think about how awful that would be for himself and his family. I am terrified for Queen Beatrix, she looks as if she has aged 10 years in one week.

May the Lord have mercy on his poor distraught family, and on the prince himself.

One week ago tonight he was a young man in his prime with everything you could want...health, lovely children, an apparently happy marriage...and now it's all over.

Life is so precious and so fragile.
I have never heard of this story. The only story I have heard of in depth is Terri Shiavo. I also recall reading a story about 2yrs ago of a woman waking up from some sort of coma, PVS, or being brain dead, but after a few weeks she went back into it. With Mrs von Bulow it sounded like she was still in there for the 25yrs but her quality of life was....not "good". Gawd I would never want that to happen to me. But I could see how her family would be unwilling to cut off life support for someone who is showing signs of being still in there somewhere.
As for Friso, why has the conversation all of a sudden turned to this direction? I haven't been glued to this subject like others, so I don't know why the hope of a few days ago has turned into talk of PVS and quality of life.
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  #719  
Old 02-25-2012, 03:45 AM
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Is it correct that we dont know whether Friso can breathe freely (what means let nature take its way until he either dies or wakes up what can take years or decades) or is on life support (what means that at some point the decision would be taken to switch off or not)?
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  #720  
Old 02-25-2012, 04:08 AM
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