Prince and Princess Akishino have a son: Prince Hisahito

[soCal girl]

I totally agree that female monarchs are just as good as male monarchs and my support for Akishino and Kiko do not reflect an opinion that males are better. But I have a problem with singling out Japan when many monarchies have these same rules of succession--involving gender and religion with a couple of recently married princesses having to convert to the religion represented by their respective royal families. Japan currently has a male-only succession. It has over a thousand years of history and that's hard to shake even if one does believe in equalizing the monarchy between males and females.

Btw, I happen to think that QEII, Margrethe II and Queen Beatrix are fantastic monarchs and I am excited about all the new little princesses in Europe who will become future heads of state but each country and society has to develop and advance at their own pace not everyone else's pace.

I agree that every country must develop at their own pace. But at what expense? Could Kiko have just become pregnant on her own with no special fertility treatments and it just happened to be a boy? Absolutely. However, the timing and circumstances seem too suspicious. Yes, other countries do have male-only inheritance laws but they haven't been faced with a succession problem this big as in Japan where no male has been born in almost half a century.

Aiko will never lead a "normal life." Princesses in Japan still have to listen to the IHA and marry a man they approve of. Also, they lose their title upon marriage to a commoner and have to pay taxes and so forth. But the IHA will never completely disappear from their lives.

 

[CrownPrinceLorenzo]

I was merely copying down what it said. I am not familiar with Japanese Imperial terminology. On the chart that lists all the Emperors/Empresses in Japanese history, she was listed as Regent.

I wouldn't just make it up.

Except Regents are called "Regents" not "Tenno" or "Heavenly Sovereign/Emperor". She never had the title of regent EVER.

 

[sara1981]

Japan succession debate to go on
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5320224.stm

Japan rejoices as male heir to the throne is born
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=K33M1JW5UKFKXQFIQMGCFGGAVCBQUIV0?xml=/news/2006/09/07/wjapan07.xml

First boy royal for 40 years
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006410520,00.html

Japan's Princess Kiko Has a Baby Boy
http://people.aol.com/people/article/0,26334,1531905,00.html

 

[ILOVEABBA]

The Succession in Japan

It is great that a baby prince has been born in Japan. But I think it only postpones the problem of the succession not solves it. the little prince is the only boy born in almost half a century. he is the one and only ultimate heir to the japanese monarchy. one day in the future when his sisters and cousins marry and become commoners and his parents, grandparents and uncles and aunts are dead, he will be the only living member of the Japanese Imperial Family. he will be very lonely. with no other members of the imperial family to help him. anything could happen. god forbid the little prince could die, he might not want to get married, he might not even be able to have children of his own when that time comes. he badly needs a brother! i think the Japanese monarchy remains very much in danger of becoming extinct. and will remain so for many decades to come until the little prince marries and has son(s) of his own. the only real solution i feel, is to allow princesses to remain within the Imperial Family when they marry and to have succession rights. i think it is such a shame that the IHA seems to be so hidebound and ultra traditional in its thinking. they seem to be to be slowly killing the very institution they are supposed to serve and protect. i hope some responsible person in Japan realizes that the institution of the monarchy remains very fragile and that it is a huge burden to place all the hopes for its survival on one tiny baby boy.

i hope the debate on changing the sucession laws carries on. and lets hope that next year the little prince might have a brother or even a little male cousin. the more heirs the better.

 

[Furienna]

We just have to hope, that this boy survives and has children. Otherwise, his sisters Mako and Kako and his cousin Aiko and their children have to be considered for the thrown.

 

[CrownPrinceLorenzo]

hope the debate on changing the sucession laws carries on. and lets hope that next year the little prince might have a brother or even a little male cousin. the more heirs the better.

Ummmm, I'm happy the baby's healthy and everything but come on, let's not get carried away.... they have plenty of possible heirs, they're just female...

 

[Toledo]

We just have to hope, that this boy survives and has children. Otherwise, his sisters Mako and Kako and his cousin Aiko and their children have to be considered for the thrown.

Problem is, if they marry they are out of the imperial family. So the family will end with this new child. The Imperial Household cannot afford to continue to live on denial if they are to save the imperial family from this bottleneck situation imposed by General McArthur's constitution. Somewhere down the line one minister has to be brave enough and restore the extended family members back to their titles, allow the imperial family to get out more often and own their own fortune rather than these pocket change hand outs they get.

 

[monica17]

Any news or pictures on other members of the family visiting Princess Kiko and the new baby?

 

[USRoyalist]

Well, that didn't take long.....

Japan's Newborn Prince Already Faces Pressure to Produce Heir

By John Brinsley
Sept. 6 (Bloomberg) -- The newest heir to the world's oldest monarchy is less than a day old and already has a significant duty to perform: produce a prince of his own....

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601080&sid=ay.ahELH.SpM&refer=asia

They seem to be learning from experience. Reproducing is a primary function in an hereditary system. Naruhito married and started trying to breed way too late, which is what caused the crisis. If Akishino and Kiko hadn't waited fourteen years to start shooting (sorry) for a son, a lot of anxiety could have been prevented. I don't want to sound mean and crude, but this is a basic rule royalty world-over has understood for centuries.
Masako is a lovely, brilliant, talented person who has not been treated very well, and we all feel for her travails, but the fact remains she failed at the one function she absolutely had to perform. The IHA is not going to let that happen again.

 

[USRoyalist]

It was strongly rumoured, although I don't know how authoritative the knowledge was, that Princess Aiko's birth was due to IVF, so there would have been a precedent.

If true, this is serious cause for concern. It is starting to appear the imperial house has a fertility problem. There have been news stories lately suggesting that the Japanese people in general have very low sperm counts, possibly as a result of industrial pollution. Too many people have been blaming "career women" for Japan's plumetting birth rate when the problem could be mechanical.

 

[CrownPrinceLorenzo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingu_of_Japan

Now that's an Empress Regent!

 

[USRoyalist]

I think we should not only blame IHA for wanting to have a male heir to imperial throne. It is very long tradition (1500 or something years) that only a man can inherit a throne. Why it's so difficult for some to accept Japanese imperial tradition and that they don't want to change it easly? Why does each monarchy have to modernize the way as Western monarchies do.

And I'm happy for Kiko and Akishino. I can't wait till September 12 to know the name of a baby boy and I hope they will publish pictures of a boy soon, but probably not before 12th.

Well said. I am amazed so few people on this forum see the irony in wanting to democratize an hereditary institution. Opening opportunities in business and education for all women is important and (I think) unarguable, but "opening" the Imperial law of succession will benefit a total of three people, who are probably just as happy to be left out! Sayako certainly didn't have any qualms about exiting the Palace.

It's also important to note that the Emperor is head of the Shinto religion which only has male priests. It is very unclear how an Empress regnant could perform the function.

 

[CrownPrinceLorenzo]

Well said. I am amazed so few people on this forum see the irony in wanting to democratize an hereditary institution. Opening opportunities in business and education for all women is important and (I think) unarguable, but "opening" the Imperial law of succession will benefit a total of three people, who are probably just as happy to be left out! Sayako certainly didn't have any qualms about exiting the Palace.

It's also important to note that the Emperor is head of the Shinto religion which only has male priests. It is very unclear how an Empress regnant could perform the function.

Right... because we all now sexism is justified...

 

[USRoyalist]

The IHA is the Imperial Household Agency, which is the branch of the bureaucracy in charge of matters relating to the imperial family. If you look through some of the general threads, you'll find some more information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Household_Agency

By all accounts, they exert a degree of control over the Japanese royal family that's far greater than goes on in the European monarchies.

The IHA's own site http://www.kunaicho.go.jp/eindex.html is one of the best on the web.

 

[Elspeth]

I've deleted some posts that had descended into a fight, and I'm reopening the thread. I already asked yesterday for people to cool down and stop getting personal, and I'm saying it again now. We're going to have to close the thread permanently if people can't manage to behave like adults.

Elspeth

Japan moderator

 

[bekalc]

I understand people's concerns, but honestly my feelings are premised on the idea that there is nothing "equitable" or democratic about monarchies anyways.

Monarchies are not rewarded to people based on merit, they are rewarded based on blood and tradition..When you think about it the fact that Aiko's father is the heir and well the new little prince's father isn't the heir isn't necessarily "fair" to begin with. They have exactly the same blood. Even though from what I've read the IHA and the current emperor would perfer the second son. But tradition is tradition. No matter how anyone feels about that one, surely people can agree that the best royal isn't necessarily the oldest. One only has to look at Queen Elizabeth II"s father and uncle to see that one clearly. Then, there's the fact that the monarchy isn't open to everyone!

So since the monarch is based on Tradition and blood, if the tradition has alwasy been that the monarchy is based on through the male line. I don't see what the big deal is. Maybe its discriminatory, but the the fact that the possibility of being Emperor someday isn't open to everyone is discriminatory as well!

For 1500 years of Tradition. The Japanese monarchy has been based on the male line. That's been their tradition and it is an unbroken line. Then, there is the factor that the Monarch isn't just the head of state in Japan. The monarch is also the High Priest of the Shinto religion, and he use to be regarded as a god! I hear that some Japanese quitely still view the emperor as a god (the more traditional ones.) So, it means that you have a situation which is certainly tense at best, and certainly something that shouldn't be messed with by Westernors but should only be dealt with by the Japanese people anyways.

My feelings are that it would be one thing to change the rule while there was no young boy who was an heir. But now that there is this young boy. It seems kind of unfair to take away what is now his birth right (out from under him) According to the Consitution, 1500 years of Tradition. This young boy's father is legally entitled to be the Crown Prince's heir, and this young boy his father's heir. It's unfair to the Crown Princess brother and to the little guy for this role to be changed. In my book, nothing really is being "stolen" from Aiko because she never had the right to become Empress in the first place. Besides why would she want that job?

In the end what makes people keep monarchies is the traditional/history aspect. When you just "do a way with Tradition left and right, it may make people say hey why do we need a monarchy after all!

 

[Smilla]

Frankly, I think Aiko and her parents might be quite glad about the boy being born. It will mean less restrictions for Aiko, who might be allowed to live a life of her own choosing.

 

[Princess Felicia]

Hey someone. I wanna ask u. What is Prince Akishino's son's name ?

And if someone has his pic. please give me hi...hi... ^__^ thanks

 

[Sister Morphine]

Hey someone. I wanna ask u. What is Prince Akishino's son's name ?

And if someone has his pic. please give me hi...hi... ^__^ thanks

The child is not named until 7 days after its birth, so we won't know until next week what his name is.

 

[monica]

when we can see the face of this baby?

 

[zarat]

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/20060907TDY11002.htm

The name of the boy will be decided at special ceremony to be hold on tuesday

 

[merampo]

when we can see the face of this baby?

We can see his face when Princess Kiko leaves hospital,about September 16.
I can't wait

 

[monica]

We can see his face when Princess Kiko leaves hospital,about September 16.
I can't wait

Ok,thanks you

 

[Laviollette]

They seem to be learning from experience. Reproducing is a primary function in an hereditary system. Naruhito married and started trying to breed way too late, which is what caused the crisis. If Akishino and Kiko hadn't waited fourteen years to start shooting (sorry) for a son, a lot of anxiety could have been prevented. I don't want to sound mean and crude, but this is a basic rule royalty world-over has understood for centuries.
Masako is a lovely, brilliant, talented person who has not been treated very well, and we all feel for her travails, but the fact remains she failed at the one function she absolutely had to perform. The IHA is not going to let that happen again.

I think this is what followers of royalty who believe it is all about fairytales don't understand. It is about tradition, protocol and above all, it is all about the heir, and who qualifies as heir depends on the present laws and constitution of that particular country. It doesn't mean the law can't be changed but the male-only succession is the law right now as it was when Kiko and Akishino married and when Masako and Naruhito got married.

 

[CrownPrinceLorenzo]

I think this is what followers of royalty who believe it is all about fairytales don't understand. It is about tradition, protocol and above all, it is all about the heir, and who qualifies as heir depends on the present laws and constitution of that particular country. It doesn't mean the law can't be changed but the male-only succession is the law right now as it was when Kiko and Akishino married and when Masako and Naruhito got married.

Yeah? Well tradition doesn't always mean right. And AGAIN, this male-only thing was NEVER their tradition.

 

[Laviollette]

Yeah? Well tradition doesn't always mean right. And AGAIN, this male-only thing was NEVER their tradition.

But it is the law as of right now.

 

[CrownPrinceLorenzo]

But it is the law as of right now.

Still doesn't mean it's right.

 

[bekalc]

Yeah? Well tradition doesn't always mean right. And AGAIN, this male-only thing was NEVER their tradition.

Yes, there was 8 Empress. But the difference was their children weren't allowed to inherit (unless their kids father was part of the imperial line.)

So while having Empress Aiko would not be a break with Tradition, having Empress Aiko's kids inherit the throne (without their daddy being a member of the Imperial family) would be a break with tradition..

 

[magnik]

Yes, there was 8 Empress. But the difference was their children weren't allowed to inherit (unless their kids father was part of the imperial line.)

So while having Empress Aiko would not be a break with Tradition, having Empress Aiko's kids inherit the throne (without their daddy being a member of the Imperial family) would be a break with tradition..

1. Empress Suiko 593-628; 3 daughter of Emperor Kimmei, consort of her half-borther Emp. Bidastu, but after his first wife died she became his official wife and given the title of official wife of the emperor.At a time when imperial succession was generally determined by clan leaders, rather than the emperor, Suiko left only vague indications of succession to two candidates while on her deathbed. One[ prince Tamura, was a grandson of Emperor Bidatsu and was supported by the main line of Sogas, including Soga no Emishi. The other, prince Yamashiro, was a son of Prince Shōtoku and had the support of some lesser members of the Soga clan.
2. Ruled twice: 1 as Empress Kogyoku 642-645 and 2 as Empress Saimei 655-661; was a wife and Empress Consort of Emperor Jomei and had three children future Emp. Tenji, Emp. Temmu and Princess Hashihito.
3. Empress Jito 686-697; was the daughter of Emp. Tenji and took the throne after of her husband Emp. Temmu's (also her uncle) death, in order of her granddson Emp. Mommu. Abdicated.
4. Empress Gemmei 707-715; daughter of Emp. Tenji, eife of CP Kusakabe no Miko - son of Emp. Temmu and Empss Jito. He was also her cousin and nephew. She succeded the throne after their son Emp. Mommu dead, in hopes of holding it untill her grandson Emp. Shomu reached maturity. Abdicated in favor of Mommu's sis Empss Gansho.
5. Empress Gensho 715-724; sister of Emp. Mommu, daughter of Prince Kusakabe and later Empss Gemmei, grandaughter of Emp. Temmu and Empss Jito by her father and granddaughter of Emp. Tenji after her mother.Her succession was mainly for the purpose to hold the throne until Prince Obito, the son of her deceased younger brother Mommu, later Emperor Emp. Shomu - to mature enough ascend to the throne.
6. Reigned twice: 1 as Empress Koken 749-758 and 2 as Empss. Shotoku 764-770. Abdicated.
7. Empress Meisho 1620-1643; 2 daughter of Emp. Go-Mizunoo and Tokugawa Kazuko, daughter of 2nd shogun-Tokugawa Hidetada. Abdicated.
8. Empress Go-Sakuramachi 1762-1771; 2 daughter of Emperor Sakumarachi.
In 1762, she acceded to the throne by a special decree of Emperor Momozono, whose son Prince Hidehito (later Emperor Go-Momozono) was only 5 years old. By her enthronement, she became the first reigning empress in her own right in 119 years.

 

[wheefi]

Congratulations to the Prince and Princess!