Prince Louis and Princess Tessy to Divorce: January 18, 2017

[carlota]

So sad news...


Does Tessy still keep her title?

this is unclear at this stage - although it looks like she won't keep her title, based on previous precedent on when helene vestur divorced prince jean.

 

[maria-olivia]

I suggest to have a look on Marcin Lobacz facebook , the Glory of his Model HRH Princess Tessy of Luxembourg.....Not that Royal dresses.

 

[moby]

What sad news. I rooted for them.

Couples grow apart all the time, especially ones who married young. Kudos to them for raising what seem to be happy kids and for treating each other well. Couples of mature age and who have kids after marriage get divorced a lot too, so I have to hand it to Tessy and Louis for lasting and for trying. They also seem to have been good for each other. I think Tessy is an ambitious young woman, which is something I understand and perhaps why I find her relatable. I hope they continue to develop into the best version of themselves for themselves and of course, for their kids.

 

[Countessmeout]

this is unclear at this stage - although it looks like she won't keep her title, based on previous precedent on when helene vestur divorced prince jean.

There is some question. Unlike Helene, Tessy did not gain her title by marriage, it was granted to her. By changes in the house law a few years ago, she should still return to Miss Anthony but the law isn't clear if this applies retroactively. It seems it will likely fall to Henri to decide.

It seems odd to see them stripped completely. At least in the UK, she would be Tessy, Princess of Luxembourg until she remarried. Considering what Sn asset she has been to thecfamilybover the past years, her work with UN AIDS and other groups, it would be a shame for her to lose it completely.

 

[bertie5252003]

Ye I too was rooting for them but it did appear that thinge were a little rougher over the last 12 mths ... I agree totally with your comments moby and really it is sad

 

[Mbruno]

Ye I too was rooting for them but it did appear that thinge were a little rougher over the last 12 mths ... I agree totally with your comments moby and really it is sad

I wonder how the staunchly Catholic Grand Duke and Grand Duchess would react if Louis wanted to remarry in the future.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

They would probably react the same way they did when their teenage son announced to them that he was to become an out of wedlock father...by being as supportive as possible and maintaining a dignified and united family front.

The LRF could give many other Royal families lessons in that area.

 

[Pranter]

Mbruno I'm guessing not very well ...and he would need to go thru the annulment process and see if he's even eligible to marry in the Church. No idea how they'd react to a marriage outside the Church...not happy I'm sure.


LaRae

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Going for annulment would be totally ridiculous in this case, imo.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I agree Duke of Marmalade...unless some sordid, fantastic detail about the relationship emerges which I can't imagine we'd ever know about anyway. They are an extremely discreet family.

I don't get it....why would the news that their son has found happiness again make them more unhappy than the news that he was going to be a teenage baby daddy in the first place?

Louis is older and (we hope) more mature. He should not be condemned to life alone because he made a mistake when he was a vulnerable teenager. There is no public statement or behavior by HT or Henri..zilch, zero, nada..to cause anyone to believe that they are that rigid, that doctrinaire.

Henri and MT's devout Catholicism does not mean that they would take a hard line with Louis if he wished to remarry some day. On the contrary the way they handled the pregnancy seems to indicate to me that they are pragmatic parents...loyal, loving and pragmatic. I think they understand that Louis is unlikely to obtain an annulment or even want to go through the emotionally draining annulment process.(unless as I said earlier, there is some revelation down the pike that would render the entire sacrament null from the get go)

I think the only thing making them unhappy is the breakdown of the marriage itself. They seemed to be very fond of Tessy, and they love their grandsons deeply.

 

[moby]

I think the family would be very supportive, as they always seem to be, should Louis meet someone else and wish to marry. Although Church marriage would be difficult the second time around, I wouldn't be surprised if they (the Lux RF) find a way to get an annulment for Louis' first marriage. There are enough loopholes in the grounds for annulment granted by the Catholic Church that I do think that if someone is influential and determined enough to go through that process, they can certainly get an annulment.

Possibly off topic but I know little about when Louis gave up his succession rights and those of his two sons but did he only renounce the rights of, specifically, all his children with Tessy or all his future children? Does he need to do the latter explicitly when he and his future wife have kids? What if future wife comes from one of those old European noble families like the de Lannoys, would that affect the treatment of the child's succession rights?

 

[Mbruno]

Mbruno I'm guessing not very well ...and he would need to go thru the annulment process and see if he's even eligible to marry in the Church. No idea how they'd react to a marriage outside the Church...not happy I'm sure.


LaRae

Although I am no expert on church law, I can't possibly imagine any grounds for an annulment in Louis and Tessy's case. So, any second marriage would have to be a civil marriage only, not blessed by the Church.

@Moonmaiden23: when Louis got Tessy pregnant, his parents eventually made him do what the Church would recommend, i.e. get married so that his child would not be brought up out of wedlock. The situation if he decided to remarry in the future would be exactly the opposite though, as he would be acting against the teachings of the Church.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Mbruno, how do you know that Louis's parents "made" him get married as opposed to the young couple simply deciding that they were in love and wanted to make a family with their baby?

Felix and Claire lived together outside marriage for years before they married. His parents apparently did not make a stand against it, even though Felix and Claire were openly violating the teachings of the Church by doing so.

As for annulment, one of the grounds for the process as clearly set down in canon law is if one or both parties were too immature to understand what they were undertaking in the first place. That was part of grounds of Caroline of Monaco's annulment from Junot. Frank Sinatra got his first marriage annulled on similar grounds.

As another poster put forth, there is indeed a loophole and opening for annulment if Louis or his family decided to aggressively pursue but I honestly can't see it happening(annulment)

 

[Pranter]

I have no idea if he would have grounds for an annulment. That would be up to a marriage tribunal.

Not sure either if he did remarry outside the Church how any other children would be viewed by the 'rules' that govern the monarchy there? Do children born in marriages outside the Church (which in his case would not be recognized at all) fall into the line of succession (if Louis was reinstated)..?


LaRae

LaRae

 

[moby]

Mbruno, how do you know that Louis's parents "made" him get married as opposed to the young couple simply deciding that they were in love and wanted to make a family with their baby?

As for annulment, one of the grounds for the process as clearly set down in canon law is if one or both parties were too immature to understand what they were undertaking in the first place.

As another poster put forth, there is indeed a loophole, but I honestly can't see it happening(annulment)

I do think it's unlikely at this point that they'd seek an annulment but if they want to, I think they could get one with the above mentioned as possible grounds. However, if Louis meets somebody from a family that's equally Catholic as his and it's the woman's first marriage, I think it's likely he will seek an annulment from the RC Church.

 

[Countessmeout]

I have no idea if he would have grounds for an annulment. That would be up to a marriage tribunal.

Not sure either if he did remarry outside the Church how any other children would be viewed by the 'rules' that govern the monarchy there? Do children born in marriages outside the Church (which in his case would not be recognized at all) fall into the line of succession (if Louis was reinstated)..?


LaRae

LaRae

Louis is not going to be reinstated so that isn't a concern. There is no need for him to be reinstated, there are plenty of heirs. It is also said one if the reasons he gave up his place in succession, was because he didn't want his kids treated differently. Noah would have been in line for the throne as he was born in wedlock, Gabriel never could be in line as he wasn't. Why would he accept reinstatement if ever possible, and allow future children to have a different place then his sons? Really is a moot point, with Louis currently fifty in line, there is no reason to even looking into reinstating him.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I have no idea if he would have grounds for an annulment. That would be up to a marriage tribunal.

Not sure either if he did remarry outside the Church how any other children would be viewed by the 'rules' that govern the monarchy there? Do children born in marriages outside the Church (which in his case would not be recognized at all) fall into the line of succession (if Louis was reinstated)..?


LaRae

LaRae

If Louis foregoes an annulment and simply decides to get married civilly, any children from the new marriage would have the same status (according to canon law) that they would have if he was simply living together with someone. They would be considered born out of wedlock.

As far as Succession rights they would have none. Louis signed away his rights and the rights of his descendants at the time of the birth of his second son.

 

[Pranter]

Ok I thanks, wasn't sure!

LaRae

 

[principessa]

But Gabriel and Noah will keep their titles as "Princes of Nassau"?

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Yes.

The only one who might possibly lose her title of Princess is Tessy, but I am far from sure about how that will play out.

My belief is that it depends on things we have no way of knowing..was Tessy the one pushing for divorce? What is the quality of her relationship with Louis and more importantly with his parents now?

As I've said before this family is so discreet and the Press in the Grand Duchy so respectful towards them that all we will probably ever have is speculation.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I dont see an annulment because I don't think they were forced to marry but decided to marry AFTER Gabriel was born so it is likely their marriage was based on love or at least they had thought carefully about their decision and knew what they were doing. They had a second child and Tessy got titles after a few years ... I don't see any possible reason for the catholic church to accept for an annullment.

 

[carlota]

There is some question. Unlike Helene, Tessy did not gain her title by marriage, it was granted to her. By changes in the house law a few years ago, she should still return to Miss Anthony but the law isn't clear if this applies retroactively. It seems it will likely fall to Henri to decide.

It seems odd to see them stripped completely. At least in the UK, she would be Tessy, Princess of Luxembourg until she remarried. Considering what Sn asset she has been to thecfamilybover the past years, her work with UN AIDS and other groups, it would be a shame for her to lose it completely.

i think helene also got her title post marriage, ie. she was helene vestur even after her wedding, just as it happened for tessy, if i remember well.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I dont see an annulment because I don't think they were forced to marry but decided to marry AFTER Gabriel was born so it is likely their marriage was based on love or at least they had thought carefully about their decision and knew what they were doing. They had a second child and Tessy got titles after a few years ... I don't see any possible reason for the catholic church to accept for an annullment.

Very good point.

But then again there have been annulments granted that made no sense to me at all and it's important to remember that the Tribunal hearing marriage cases has the option of keeping records sealed ... there are facts we may never be made aware of.

Also, Catholic Royals have the right to appeal their cases directly to the pope, as happened with the Grimaldi in Monaco with Caroline. I don't see Pope Francis taking as hard line as his predecessors if this case comes to him, given some of his previous statements regarding divorce and remarriage etc for Catholics.

John Paul II dragged his feet with Caroline of Monaco and only granted the annulment after the tragic death of Stefano so that her three little children could be legitimized.

 

[Pranter]

For those who don't know...a annulment is based on circumstances/situations going on at the time of the marriage vows. Not based on events during the marriage. There would have to be something at the time the marriage took place to make it null. Such as parents forcing a teen to marry...or something like undisclosed vices/addictions (porn, drugs etc etc).


LaRae

 

[Countessmeout]

i think helene also got her title post marriage, ie. she was helene vestur even after her wedding, just as it happened for tessy, if i remember well.

Yes, in 1995 a new act was passed which said any prince who married without permission, his spouse round be countess of Nassau.

Interesting though is that tessy was never granted that title. Age should have been countess of Nassau on marriage but wasn't. her own title at marriage and later were both independent decrees. It stands to be seen how the tyke after divorce us handled as her title us an unique situation.

 

[cepe]

FOund it interesting that this was reported in The Times

Former soldier and her prince decide to divorce | News | The Times & The Sunday Times

I particularly like the headline as shown in the link

 

[Countessmeout]

I can't read the article as I don't plan to sign up, but definitely unique title. Yes she was once a soldier, but definitely not the headline one expects.

 

[HRHHermione]

FOund it interesting that this was reported in The Times

Former soldier and her prince decide to divorce | News | The Times & The Sunday Times

I particularly like the headline as shown in the link

That headline is perfect. Yay for headlines that are accurate and not sexist!


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community mobile app

 

[Moonmaiden23]

For those who don't know...a annulment is based on circumstances/situations going on at the time of the marriage vows. Not based on events during the marriage. There would have to be something at the time the marriage took place to make it null. Such as parents forcing a teen to marry...or something like undisclosed vices/addictions (porn, drugs etc etc).


LaRae

EXACTLY.

An annulment is exactly that...it means that factors existed at the onset of the marriage that nullified the sacrament from the beginning.

Someone else forcing or coercing a person to marry is one of those factors, as is a person being mentally/emotionally incompetent. Also if they were drunk or stoned at the altar.

There are just too many things that we don't know here.

 

[Princess B]

Initially I wasn't particularly fond of either Princess Tessy or Prince Louis. I'd thought of them to be rather reckless (given his lineage). But Tessy grew on me. She conducted herself with grace and dignity and they seemed like a couple who'd go a long way.

This divorce is sad, especially for the boys. I also feel bad for Louis who renounced his and his descendants place in the order of succession (though the chances of him acceding were neglible, even more now).