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View Poll Results: When do you think Crown Princess Victoria will get engaged to Daniel Westling…
This autumn/winter (marriage 2006) 44 23.78%
In the spring/summer of 2006 (marriage 2006) 54 29.19%
In the autumn/winter of 2006 (marriage 2007) 32 17.30%
Never 55 29.73%
Voters: 185. You may not vote on this poll

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  #101  
Old 10-09-2005, 06:04 PM
Lena's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mixer2002de
Benny Johansson sold his shares in Mastergymn? Or did he get kicked out? Who owns his shares now?
Daniel (the majority) :)
I guess, how this could happen, will be a puzzle forever.


A general question (to all):
As fiancé/fiancée of a Royal entering the public light->would you personally rather want to

-start from the base cp Mary had (a lot of sympathies and praise in advance...e.g. that it would be written about you, that you are perfect in the new language, or that you had a top career or that you are intelligent)

-start from the base Daniel has (a lot of criticial opinions, being not really popular...but also not really unpopular) ???
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  #102  
Old 10-09-2005, 06:15 PM
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That's one tricky question!
On the one hand, it must be very depressing to get a lot of negative comments. Very discouraging. But then, you could become accepted as you learn the ropes and do your job (that's what happened to Mette-Marit, whose situation was a lot worse than Daniel's, I think). So people might be surprised and get to appreciate you as you go along.
On the other hand, if you get positive comments, it's encouraging and you won't be as nervous and shy as in the first case. People will be disappointed if you mess up things, but you will be very careful not to do that.

so I think starting out as Mary is far easier. Once people like you they'll stick to liking you, but it's not so easy converting prejudices or bad opinions into something positive.
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  #103  
Old 10-09-2005, 06:59 PM
Vicomtesse's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lena
A general question (to all):
As fiancé/fiancée of a Royal entering the public light->would you personally rather want to

-start from the base cp Mary had (a lot of sympathies and praise in advance...e.g. that it would be written about you, that you are perfect in the new language, or that you had a top career or that you are intelligent)

-start from the base Daniel has (a lot of criticial opinions, being not really popular...but also not really unpopular) ???
Female fiancees who aren't popular from the beginning can have the next heirs and their popularity will immediately IMPROVE.
They carry the babies, people watch their bellies grow, then the baby comes and people love them because the babies are so cute. Everybody loves a baby.
What can male fiancees do to improve their reputations? If they dominate a situation then are overbearing (Prince Philip). If they let their wives lead then they are weak (Prince Claus). Or they can have a hissy fit and be a big baby (Prince Henrik).
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  #104  
Old 10-09-2005, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lena
A general question (to all):
As fiancé/fiancée of a Royal entering the public light->would you personally rather want to

-start from the base cp Mary had (a lot of sympathies and praise in advance...e.g. that it would be written about you, that you are perfect in the new language, or that you had a top career or that you are intelligent)

-start from the base Daniel has (a lot of criticial opinions, being not really popular...but also not really unpopular) ???
You always ask the toughest questions Lena! :p And as you ask such thought-provoking questions, here is my long-winded answer!

I think it would be more apt to compare Daniel's circumstances with the likes of Letizia and Mette-Marit, both women who were native-born citizens of the respective countrise to which they became princesses, than Mary or Maxima who adopted new countries in becoming princesses.

Here's why I think this:
Mary and Maxima endured a greater process in becoming Crown Princesses as they both had to move to new countries very different from their native born countries, leave behind support systems of family and friends, jobs and co-workers, learn a new language, adapt to a new geographical climate, become familiar with a new culture, etc., all in addition to the princess schooling and royal court etiquette and protocol which any new person joining a royal family would've had to learn.

Mette-Marit and Letizia had the advantage of already speaking their future subject's native tongue, being familiar with the culture, religion, etc. In marrying their respective princes, they didn't have to leave behind their family or friends, who were tremendous support systems as they took on their new roles.

Mind you, Letizia and Mette-Marit had their own personal problems in gaining acceptance as future princesses -- a divorcee in a Catholic country and a single mom who did drugs. In comparison, Daniel is an angel with no real skeletons in his closet known thus far. So he rarely smiles, he isn't publicly affectionate with Victoria, he runs a private business which would have to be sold if and when he becomes a prince, he has greasy hair (or is that just my personal sentiments?!). I would say that such criticisms are minor and can easily be overcome. With some prince classes of his own, a transference of his business holdings, some well-timed longing gazes at Victoria, the public will come to like Daniel, or at least accept him, in due time.

For the most part, I think this has been the case for Letizia and Mette-Marit. Some good old fashioned hard work and a dedicated attitude, most things are forgotten about these women. I would say that I hardly hear anymore gripes about Letizia being divorced (maybe this is not the case in Spain) or Marius and Mette-Marit's drug usage in her youth as a major issue. For the most part, the public is focused on how hard Letizia works, how she dresses, and the impending birth, and how cute Ingrid Alexandra is and the imending birth.

I personally would find difficult about praise from the very beginning that when you are put on such a high pedestal, the slightest mistake means a significant fall from the public's grace. The public can be fickle -- they can easily put you up on a pedestal but just as easily knock you down. In Mary's case, this hasn't happened. Not in such an obvious manner. Some people aren't crazy about the numerous photo shoots and interviews granted, but with the news of the pregnancy and the several trips abroad (to the U.S., Japan, Australia, Greenland) as well as duties at home, mostly the photo shoots are an unfortunate thing of the past that is not dwelled on.

By the same token, when you start off low or with strong criticisms against you, you can only improve (hopefully). Consider all the strikes against Mette-Marit at the very beginning. I don't think many people had much faith or stock in her as a Crown Princess. But in due time, I think she has won some people over, although not all.

I would say that of all the Crown Princesses, it would be best to be in Maxima or Mathilde's positions. Mathilde won the public over with her simplicity, discretion and her elegance. Maxima won the Dutch public over in an opposite manner: For her sheer exuberance and enthusiasm and for that thousand watt smile of hers.

Did I answer your question Lena? Or did I totally diver elsewhere?!
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  #105  
Old 10-10-2005, 05:32 AM
KikkiB's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandria
You always ask the toughest questions Lena! :p And as you ask such thought-provoking questions, here is my long-winded answer!

I think it would be more apt to compare Daniel's circumstances with the likes of Letizia and Mette-Marit, both women who were native-born citizens of the respective countrise to which they became princesses, than Mary or Maxima who adopted new countries in becoming princesses. [...]
Just wanted to say, Alexandria, I couldn't have said this better myself :) It is just the same I've been thinking, reading posts in this forum. Namely, that you can't really compare CPs Mary and Maximas process of becoming Crown Princess to CPs Mette-Marit and Letizias, because their starting-points were different. So, thus you have to, as you point out, put Daniel in the same category as CPs Mette-Marit and Letizia. But then again, he is in a special position, he is male and he won't become Crown Prince, but Prince Consort, so there aren't that many to compare him with, since he will be the only "new" Prince Consort, since those of the now-reigning queens.
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  #106  
Old 10-10-2005, 04:44 PM
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Maybe he focuses on Mastergymn now and wont marry in the next time. Rememebr Viktorias Mum married at the age of 34. So she still has got some time....
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  #107  
Old 10-11-2005, 05:26 PM
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Thanks to all, who have answered my question. :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandria
Did I answer your question Lena? Or did I totally diver elsewhere?!
Oh yes...in the first part of paragraph 7. In the next paragraph you have pointed out an other aspect. So I don´t know, if I´ve gotten an answer :p BUT you came up with very interesting aspects. And that´s worth a lot. I agree with you and KikkiB, that the starting points of crown princes(ses) born in the country are different from those, who are foreigners. So maybe I should have included this into my question. Then again this would have not changed much. I wasn´t searching for the cause for popularity, but for the answer on the question, with what you could deal better. But I don´t exclude, that your own attitude would be maybe different, when you would come from an other country, or when you would have the feeling, that you have done all (most things) right in your life, or when you are a male.

Well, to answer my own question: I agree with Smilla (greetings to Vienna...maybe you are my neighbour Well, that´s stuff for PMs) I think in Europe you can fall deeper. The one day you are on the top, the next you are bashed. BUT I also made the experience, that this doesn´t apply for Royals. As soon as they have won the hearts of the people, they can be sure to be appreciated for years (or forever). So under these circumstances, I would clearly wish to start from Mary´s position.

And when I would be responsive to the aspects, you came up with...then I would want to be a foreign, noble female candidate with a 10000 watt-smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicomtesse
Female fiancees who aren't popular from the beginning can have the next heirs and their popularity will immediately IMPROVE.
They carry the babies, people watch their bellies grow, then the baby comes and people love them because the babies are so cute. Everybody loves a baby.
What can male fiancees do to improve their reputations? If they dominate a situation then are overbearing (Prince Philip). If they let their wives lead then they are weak (Prince Claus). Or they can have a hissy fit and be a big baby (Prince Henrik).
I agree on that...but I see also changes for the next generation. Mainly based on the general social changes (which are also noticeable in this generation of crown princes. They fill far more their parent-role than their fathers did) and based on my (current!) idea of Daniel. I could imagine him to be quite a good father. And I guess, when they would get a girl, he would pamper this kid endlessly I further guess, that he would also display this attitude in public from the very first day as father. No doubt, we women have the bellies and have to do the hard job, but while we recover, the dads can brag and can act as perfect daddies ...and also later in the life of the child, a lot of opportunities wait, where the fathers can show their skills. And since "showing their skills" is for some fathers still a taboo or something, that is simply annoying for them, a caring loving father can make easily points, when he cares for the child (for mothers, this is more seen as "matter of course"...even though this approach is IMO wrong)
Besides one shouldn´t forget, that it always takes two to make a heir As soon as Victoria would be pregnant, we know, that Daniel has fulfilled his "first duty"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixer
Maybe he focuses on Mastergymn now and wont marry in the next time. Rememebr Viktorias Mum married at the age of 34. So she still has got some time....
She was 32. And I think most couples don´t (want to) judge their relationship via their own age ("O, I´m 35...maybe it´s time to marry") but via the feelings, they have for the other person...and maybe via the (happy) time, they have had together as couple.
When we would take time as parameter, then Silvia was only 3.5 years with the king together, until he proposed. In winter Daniel and Victoria are 4 years together
And when we would now generally say, that 3.5 years are a good test for a Royal relationship (in fact most couples dated that long)...and when we would assume, that V&D would break up next summer, and when it would take then Victoria again (I´m refering to her "gap" between 2001-2002) a year to find a new relationship, then she would be at her wedding with Mr. X 33.5 years old. Then it would take her at an average 1-1.5 years to get pregnant, and she would be 35. From a medical point of view not the best age to start with babies.
Well, I will stop now with my little digression on "mathematics for Royal watchers".
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  #108  
Old 10-12-2005, 04:43 AM
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i am still amazed that so many thinks that they will not marry
  #109  
Old 10-12-2005, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josefine
i am still amazed that so many thinks that they will not marry
Me too

My possible explanations:

- They think, that Daniel can´t give up his business.

- They think, that the love between Victoria and Daniel doesn´t seem big enough.

- They don´t like the idea of a prince Daniel and have an other candidate in their minds.

- They (just like Mixer) compare Victoria´s age with the age of her mother (and the current crown princesses) at their weddings.

-They don´t follow the Swedish Royal family very much and don´t know about the state of affairs (that what we get to see and hear) between Victoria and Daniel.

-They follow the Swedish Royal family and think, that this kind of "open lived relationship" isn´t unusual for Scandinavian Royals.

Well, just a few ideas Maybe the "never"-voters can say something to that
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  #110  
Old 10-12-2005, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lena
Me too

My possible explanations:

- They think, that Daniel can´t give up his business.

- They think, that the love between Victoria and Daniel doesn´t seem big enough.

- They don´t like the idea of a prince Daniel and have an other candidate in their minds.

- They (just like Mixer) compare Victoria´s age with the age of her mother (and the current crown princesses) at their weddings.

-They don´t follow the Swedish Royal family very much and don´t know about the state of affairs (that what we get to see and hear) between Victoria and Daniel.

-They follow the Swedish Royal family and think, that this kind of "open lived relationship" isn´t unusual for Scandinavian Royals.

Well, just a few ideas Maybe the "never"-voters can say something to that
i can only tell opinion i have no idee if they will get married
  #111  
Old 10-12-2005, 04:22 PM
Lena's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josefine
i can only tell opinion i have no idee if they will get married
So you have also voted "never"?
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  #112  
Old 10-12-2005, 04:26 PM
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I think that i voted In the autumn/winter of 2006 (marriage 2007)

becouse somewhere i think they will get married but i am not sure at all
  #113  
Old 10-13-2005, 12:06 PM
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The poll results for the above question, "When do you think Crown Princess Victoria will get engaged to Daniel Westling" are now finnished and the poll is hereby closed. The poll results are as follows:

This autumn/winter (marriage 2006) 44 votes, 23.78%
In the spring/summer of 2006 (marriage 2006) 54 votes, 29.19%
In the autumn/winter of 2006 (marriage 2007)
32 votes, 17.30%
Never 55 votes, 29.73%
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