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  #21  
Old 04-20-2019, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
There are probably quite a few children who were acknowledged by the woman's husband that were not actually his biological children, especially if they were "spares". I read a book once that claimed it was common and often the King knew about it but accepted them so as not to be mocked as a cuckold or have his heir's legitimacy questioned. Not entirely sure if that was the actual case or not.
I should not think it was common for Kings to look the other way, over an illegitimate child....Of course it might occasionally happen that he iddn't know he wasn't the father....
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  #22  
Old 04-20-2019, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
There are probably quite a few children who were acknowledged by the woman's husband that were not actually his biological children, especially if they were "spares". I read a book once that claimed it was common and often the King knew about it but accepted them so as not to be mocked as a cuckold or have his heir's legitimacy questioned. Not entirely sure if that was the actual case or not.
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I should not think it was common for Kings to look the other way, over an illegitimate child....Of course it might occasionally happen that he iddn't know he wasn't the father....
In most judicial systems no acknowledgement from the husband would be required as, under most circumstances, a child birthed by a married woman was and still would be considered in law to be the child of her husband.
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  #23  
Old 04-21-2019, 03:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
There are probably quite a few children who were acknowledged by the woman's husband that were not actually his biological children, especially if they were "spares". I read a book once that claimed it was common and often the King knew about it but accepted them so as not to be mocked as a cuckold or have his heir's legitimacy questioned. Not entirely sure if that was the actual case or not.
A good example would be the later children of Grand Duchess Wilhelmine of Hesse, wife of Louis II of Hesse. The marriage was unhappy; there was a wide age difference between the two and Louis had his own extramarital affairs. After Wilhelmine provided an heir and a spare (the future Louis III and Prince Karl, respectively) she moved into Heiligenberg Castle. After embarking on an affair with Baron August von Senarclens de Grancy in 1820, she gave birth to an additional four children. Louis acknowledged them as his own, but it was well-known that the Grand Duke and Grand Duchess were not even living together.

Only the two youngest, Alexander and Marie, survived to adulthood and made a rather spectacular mark on history. Marie became Empress of Russia as the wife of Tsar Alexander II. Reportedly when courtiers tried to whisper to Alexander about the rumors of Marie's parentage, he responded with the allegations that his own ancestor Paul I wasn't the actual son of Peter III. Meanwhile, Alexander morgantically married Countess Julia von Hauke, Princess of Battenberg. Among his descendants are King Felipe of Spain and Prince Philip.
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  #24  
Old 04-21-2019, 03:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
In most judicial systems no acknowledgement from the husband would be required as, under most circumstances, a child birthed by a married woman was and still would be considered in law to be the child of her husband.
That's not what I meant
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  #25  
Old 04-21-2019, 07:26 AM
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A good example would be the later children of Grand Duchess Wilhelmine of Hesse, wife of Louis II of Hesse. The marriage was unhappy; there was a wide age difference between the two and Louis had his own extramarital affairs. After Wilhelmine provided an heir and a spare (the future Louis III and Prince Karl, respectively) she moved into Heiligenberg Castle. After embarking on an affair with Baron August von Senarclens de Grancy in 1820, she gave birth to an additional four children. Louis acknowledged them as his own, but it was well-known that the Grand Duke and Grand Duchess were not even living together.

Only the two youngest, Alexander and Marie, survived to adulthood and made a rather spectacular mark on history. Marie became Empress of Russia as the wife of Tsar Alexander II. Reportedly when courtiers tried to whisper to Alexander about the rumors of Marie's parentage, he responded with the allegations that his own ancestor Paul I wasn't the actual son of Peter III. Meanwhile, Alexander morgantically married Countess Julia von Hauke, Princess of Battenberg. Among his descendants are King Felipe of Spain and Prince Philip.
I'd say though that this was very rare. There might be the occasional husband who would look the other way if he did not want to divorce his wife, or cause a scandal.. but I really find it hard to believe that a LOT of royal wives had fully consummated affairs resulting In children. Even in the later 19th C when there was a bit more leniency...
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  #26  
Old 04-21-2019, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
I think I first read the information about the lack of a legal acknowledgement on the website of the Italian region of Emilia-Romagna.

Montenuovo Albertina — Pari opportunità

The article states that Count Neipperg mentioned the children in his will together with his desire for Duchess Maria Luigia to adopt them after his death (which I imagine would be unnecessary if they had already been legally recognized). It further says the Duchess acknowledged their births in a secret document but never legally adopted them.

But if either of you have found a more reliable source stating differently, please share it.



I'm sorry I don't know, but my guess is that it was the Austrian emperor.
Thanks for the link Tatiana Maria, it was a fascinating read. I learned a lot of new information. Interestingly, the link mentions two sons. I've seen no mention of a second son anywhere else, only a daughter who died young.

I think your standards for what constitutes an acknowledgement are far more stringent than mine. To me, the fact that they were not given up for adoption, had contact with their mother throughout their lives and were given titles that referenced their paternal heritage ( & now their being acknowledged in von Neipperg's will) is acknowledgement enough.
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  #27  
Old 04-21-2019, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Yeine View Post
Thanks for the link Tatiana Maria, it was a fascinating read. I learned a lot of new information. Interestingly, the link mentions two sons. I've seen no mention of a second son anywhere else, only a daughter who died young.
I'm glad that you enjoyed reading it! I found it an interesting read as well. Actually, after a second glance, it seems to mention only two children (Albertina and Guglielmo) who were born to Duchess Maria Luigia of Parma and Count von Neipperg, but that may very well be because any other sibling(s) did not survive. I think the two sons mentioned are the sons of Albertina.

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Originally Posted by Yeine View Post
I think your standards for what constitutes an acknowledgement are far more stringent than mine. To me, the fact that they were not given up for adoption, had contact with their mother throughout their lives and were given titles that referenced their paternal heritage ( & now their being acknowledged in von Neipperg's will) is acknowledgement enough.
In my earlier posts I stipulated that I was addressing legal acknowledgement. The discussion began with the topic of their legitimacy; in order to be the legitimate children of the Duchess it would have been necessary that she become their legal mother and not only their biological mother. But to the children themselves, as you pointed out, it may have been more meaningful to have an actual relationship with their birth mother than to seek to have their maternity acknowledged in the judicial system.

From a modern perspective, it is interesting that numerous royals of the past provided their children born out of wedlock with unofficial acknowledgement and privileges without granting a judicial acknowledgement, whereas in present-day Europe the opposite seems more frequent.
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  #28  
Old 04-21-2019, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Yeine View Post
Thanks for the link Tatiana Maria, it was a fascinating read. I learned a lot of new information. Interestingly, the link mentions two sons. I've seen no mention of a second son anywhere else, only a daughter who died young.

I think your standards for what constitutes an acknowledgement are far more stringent than mine. To me, the fact that they were not given up for adoption, had contact with their mother throughout their lives and were given titles that referenced their paternal heritage ( & now their being acknowledged in von Neipperg's will) is acknowledgement enough.
I would agree that they weren't acknowledged. I think at the time it would have ben impossible for ML to acknowledge them.. It was of course known by the court and also probably by the people that she had children by Neipperg but she could not have come out and said so officially.. Her marriage had to be morganatic, and the children born before it, were looked after and kept close to their parents but that wasnt' acknowledgement
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  #29  
Old 04-21-2019, 05:07 PM
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Princess Marianne of the Netherlands, Princess of Orange-Nassau (1810-1883) was the youngest child and only surviving daughter of King Willem I and Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands born Princess of Prussia.

In 1830 Princess Marianne married her cousin Prince Albrecht of Prussia. Despite the fact that the two knew each other since childhood, the marriage was not a happy one, especially due to extramarital escapades of the Prince. The couple got five children, three survived into adulthood.

The marriage was so bad that Princess Marianne did separate from Prince Albrecht in 1845. Her brother, King Willem II of the Netherlands refused a divorce. In 1848 Princess Marianne bought a stately home near The Hague. There she openly had a liaison wirh her coachman Johannes van Rossum.

When the Princess was pregnant in 1849, her brother King Willem II finally agreed in a divorce. However he ruled that his sister should preferrably not live together with her lover and child. Princess Marianne then bought Schloss Reinhartshausen near Erbach in the Dukedom of Nassau.

There the Princess lived openly with her partner Johannes and her illegitimate son, who was named Johann Wilhelm von Reinhartshausen (approved by the Duke of Nassau). The boy died at the age of 12, on Christmas Day 1861. (See picture of the boy: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...artshausen.jpg)

Princess Marianne ordered the construction of the Johannes Church in Erbach where her son is interred (see picture https://img.fotocommunity.com/erbach...pg?height=1080)
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  #30  
Old 04-21-2019, 06:52 PM
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The first thing that entered my mind after reading the title of this thread was the ever popular and ongoing theory that Sir Francis Bacon is, in fact, the son of Queen Elizabeth I.

Bacon's Royal Parentage
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  #31  
Old 04-22-2019, 02:36 AM
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The Landgravine Eleonora Catherine of Hessen-Escwege, born a Countess Palatine of Pfalz-Zweibrücken and considered a Princess of Sweden after her brother Karl X ascended that throne, had an illegitimate daughter in 1647 only a few months after her marriage to the Landgrave Friedrich. She had confessed to her husband early on in their marriage that she was pregnant with the French lute player Beschon. Her husband asked her to keep quiet. The daughter named Margareta didn't even live a year.
In a strange twist of fate the couple's daughter Landgravine Juliana, who had been sent to Sweden to be raised and eventually marry her cousin Karl XI, got pregnant with the already married Count Lillie but managed to hide it until she got into labour while riding in a carriage with the Queen Dowager Hedvig Eleonora. Juliana was banished to a country estate and the boy was put in foster care.
Things didn't end there - in 1679 Juliana was found pregnant with the Dutch commoner Johann Jakob Marchand. After the birth of their son they were allowed to marry and Johann was given the title Baron von Lillienburg. The family left for Haarlem and was according to some sources given an estate near IJsselstein by Prince Wilhelm III of Orange.
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  #32  
Old 04-22-2019, 04:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
The first thing that entered my mind after reading the title of this thread was the ever popular and ongoing theory that Sir Francis Bacon is, in fact, the son of Queen Elizabeth I.

Bacon's Royal Parentage
never heard of this. there were rumours that Elizabeth had a child.. at various times.. but Ive never heard of her beign Bacon's mothe
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  #33  
Old 04-22-2019, 01:48 PM
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Here's a list of additional names:


Royal women who gave birth while unmarried


#1 Juliana of Hesse-Eschwege (1652-1693)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juliana_of_Hesse-Eschwege


#2 Marie Louise Elisabeth of Orleans (1695-1719), widow of Charles Duke of Berry

https://www.historyofroyalwomen.com/...hess-of-berry/


#3 Maria Leopoldina of Austria-Este (1776-1848), widow of Charles Theodore, Elector of Bavaria

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archdu...f_Austria-Este


#4 Anastasia Mikhailovna of Russia (1860-1922), widow of Grand Duke Friedrich Franz III of Mecklenburg-Schwerin

Anastasia Mikhailovna of Russia, Grand Duchess of Mecklenburg-Schwerin | Unofficial Royalty

https://www.historyofroyalwomen.com/...and-who-lived/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_...ovna_of_Russia



#5 Kira of Leiningen (1930-2006) gave birth in 1961 to a daughter, Lavinia Marie. In 1963 she married her daughter’s father, Prince Andrew of Yugoslavia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince..._of_Yugoslavia

Also: Marlene A. Eilers, Queen Victoria’s Descendants (Rosvall Royal Books, 1997), p. 148.


#6 Clarissa of Hesse (born 1944), daughter of Prince Christoph Hesse & Princess Sophia of Greece [sister of Prince Philip Duke of Edinburgh] gave birth in 1980 to a daughter, Johanna Sophia von Hessen.

Source: Marlene A. Eilers, Queen Victoria’s Descendants (Rosvall Royal Books, 1997), p. 135.


#7 Lavinia Marie of Yugoslavia (1961- ), daughter of #5 above, gave birth in 1987 to a daughter, Nadya Marie, fathered by Roy Rexford Finnimore.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince..._of_Yugoslavia

Also Marlene A. Eilers, Queen Victoria’s Descendants (Rosvall Royal Books, 1997), p. 148.


Married royal women with children not fathered by their husbands


#1 Anna of Saxony (1544-1587), second wife of William the Silent Prince of Orange

https://www.historyofroyalwomen.com/...mate-daughter/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_of_Saxony

#2 Eleonora Catherine of Zweibrucken (1626-1692), wife of Frederick Landgrave of Hesse-Eschwege

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counte...eibr%C3%BCcken


#3 Maria Franziska of Sulzbach (1724-1794), wife of Frederick Michael, Count Palatine of Zweibrücken-Birkenfeld.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counte...ka_of_Sulzbach



#4 [possibly] Bathilde of Orleans (1750-1822), wife of Louis Henri Duke of Enghien

https://www.historyofroyalwomen.com/...oyenne-verite/

https://www.historyofroyalwomen.com/...mate-daughter/



#5 Therese of Mecklenburg-Strelitz (1773-1839), wife of Karl Alexander Prince of Thurn und Taxis

https://www.historyofroyalwomen.com/...burg-strelitz/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duches...nburg-Strelitz



#6 Juliane of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld (1781-1860), wife of Grand Duke Konstantin Pavlovich of Russia

https://www.historyofroyalwomen.com/...burg-saalfeld/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince...oburg-Saalfeld


#7 Hortense de Beauharnais (1783-1837), wife of King Louis [Bonaparte] of Holland, mother of Emperor Napoleon III

https://www.historyofroyalwomen.com/...arnais-part-2/


#8 Wilhelmine of Baden (1788-1836), wife of Grand Duke II of Hesse & the Rhine

Wilhelmine of Baden, Grand Duchess of Hesse and by Rhine | Unofficial Royalty


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince...lmine_of_Baden


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August...lens_de_Grancy


#9 Maria Sophie of Bavaria (1841-1925), wife of King Francis II of the Two Sicilies

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Sophie_of_Bavaria


Married royal women with children suspected of not being fathered by their husbands

#1 Eufemia of Kiev (c1096-1138), wife of King Coloman of Hungary

https://www.historyofroyalwomen.com/...-and-adultery/


#2 Beatrice d’Este (c1212-1245), second wife of King Andrew II of Hungary

https://www.historyofroyalwomen.com/...-and-adultery/


#3 Isabella of Castile (1355-1392), wife of Edmund Duke of York

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isabel...uchess_of_York


#4 Joan of Portugal (1439-1475), wife of King Henry IV of Castile

https://www.historyofroyalwomen.com/...ndalous-queen/

https://www.historyofroyalwomen.com/...la-beltraneja/


#5 Maria Luisa of Parma (1751-1819), wife of King Charles IV of Spain

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Luisa_of_Parma


#6 Louise of Austria-Tuscany (1870-1947), wife of King Frederick Augustus III of Saxony


https://www.historyofroyalwomen.com/...incess-saxony/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archdu...ise_of_Austria


#7 Marie of Edinburgh (1875-1936), wife of King Ferdinand I of Romania

https://www.historyofroyalwomen.com/...queen-romania/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_of_Romania
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  #34  
Old 04-22-2019, 11:15 PM
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More names:


Royal women who gave birth while unmarried

#1 Blanche of Portugal (1259-1321)

https://www.historyofroyalwomen.com/...egitimate-son/

#2 Germaine de Foix (c1488-1538), niece of King Louis XII of France and widow of King Ferdinand II of Aragon

https://www.historyofroyalwomen.com/...el-of-castile/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germaine_of_Foix

#3 [allegedly] Sophia Albertina of Sweden (1753-1829)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophia...of_Quedlinburg


Married royal women with children not fathered by their husbands


#1 Augusta of Brunswick-Wolfenbuttel (1764-1788), wife of King Frederick I of Wurttemberg

https://www.historyofroyalwomen.com/...-wolfenbuttel/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duches...k-Wolfenbüttel

#2 Maria Pia of Savoy (1934- ), daughter of King Umberto II of Italy, married (1) Prince Alexander of Yugoslavia and (2) Prince Michael of Bourbon-Parma

In 1963, while married to Prince Alexander, she gave birth to twins (Serge and Helene), fathered by Prince Michael, who was also married. Following their divorces from their respective spouses Maria Pia and Michael married in 2003 but Prince Alexander is still recognized as the children’s legal father.

See the Nobiliana forum, specifically:
March 7, 2018 post by Eurohistory (Arturo Beeche, royal author) in “Umberto Emmanuel Dimitri Karageorgevich” thread.

November 21, 2010 post by Marlene (Marlene Eilers Koenig, author & royal genealogy expert) in “Princess Maria Pia of Savoy's autobiography” thread.


Married royal women with children allegedly not fathered by their husbands


#1 [rumors only] Sophia Magdalena of Denmark (1746-1813), wife of King Gustav III of Sweden

https://www.historyofroyalwomen.com/...-munck-affair/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophia...ena_of_Denmark

#2 [rumors only] Sophia of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1758-1794), wife of Hereditary Prince Frederick of Denmark & Norway

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duches...nburg-Schwerin

#3 [rumors only] Sophie of Sweden (1801-1865), wife of Grand Duke Leopold of Baden

Her youngest daughter Cecilie (later Olga Feodorovna), wife of Grand Duke Michael Nikolaevich of Russia was allegedly fathered by Samuel von Haber (a Jewish banker)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Cecilie_of_Baden

Also the “Paternity of Cecile of Baden, Grand Duchess of Russia” thread in the Nobiliana forum, September 2016.

#4 [unsubstantiated speculation] Maud of Great Britain (1869-1938), wife of King Haakon VII of Norway

BBC NEWS | Europe | Norway royal bloodline 'British'

#5 Edda-Charlotte von Stephani-Marwitz (1905-1986), wife of Duke Joachim Ernst of Anhalt

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eduard,_Prince_of_Anhalt

Also, the “Duke Eduard of Anhalt’s Paternity” thread in the Nobiliana forum, September 2005

#6 Maria Kirillovna of Russia (1907-1951), wife of Karl, 6th Prince of Leiningen

Two posts by Marlene (Marlene Eilers Koening, author & royal genealogy expert) in the “Duke Eduard of Anhalt's paternity” thread, Nobiliana forum, September 8, 2005: "The elder children were most certainly fathered by the Prince. Most certainly, the youngest son Peter who died as an infant was not fathered by the prince -- and perhaps Kira" and "the youngest son of Grand Duchess Maria Kirillovna was most likely not fathered by her husband -most likely the gardener or the chauffeur.”
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  #35  
Old 06-14-2019, 04:50 PM
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Though it cannot be ascertained with absolute certainty without a genetic test of the remains of the child and her suspected father, there is a strong possibility that Grand Duchess Anna Petrovna of Russia, first daughter and second child of Catherine II of Russia, was actually the biological daughter of Stanisław II Augustus of Poland, rather than of Peter III of Russia.
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  #36  
Old 06-14-2019, 05:40 PM
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I am currently reading Evelyn Farr's Marie Antoinette and Count Axel Fersen: The Untold Love Story.

The author's rather shocking assertion is that the queen's two younger children Louis-Charles, Duc de Normandie and Princess Sophie(who died in infancy) were fathered by Fersen and not Louis XVI.

This is the first time I've heard this.
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  #37  
Old 06-14-2019, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
I am currently reading Evelyn Farr's Marie Antoinette and Count Axel Fersen: The Untold Love Story.

The author's rather shocking assertion is that the queen's two younger children Louis-Charles, Duc de Normandie and Princess Sophie(who died in infancy) were fathered by Fersen and not Louis XVI.

This is the first time I've heard this.
There is a saying in French which goes : A beau mentir qui vient de loin It means when you are far away (distance and time) you can lie as much as you want.

I think it is easy to say anything when you are so far in time.
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Old 06-14-2019, 09:18 PM
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Farr bases her theory on almost purely circumstantial evidence...the timing of MA's pregnancies when Fersen was known to be in her company at Versailles or the Petit Trianon(there were 4...two ended in miscarriage) as well as the couples' love letters written to one another in invisible ink and deciphered with the aid of modern technology. I Love You Madly is a new release by the author which deals exclusively with letters between the two.
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  #39  
Old 06-17-2019, 06:07 PM
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Some key biographers have put forth the possibility that Princess Louise of the United Kingdom (fourth daughter and sixth child overall of Queen Victoria), before she became the Duchess of Argyll, may have had an illegitimate child by her brother's tutor. The evidence is scant, but that does not necessarily mean it didn't happen—we know from what occurred in the case of Princess Thyra of Denmark's illegitimate child exactly how a princess being impregnated out of wedlock in the Victorian era would have panned out: She would have been sent somewhere far away to give birth to the child, who would have immediately been adopted out to a common family while the Royal Household worked overtime to erase all evidence that the pregnancy had ever occurred; and that's assuming the pregnancy didn't end in a miscarriage or the Royal Household didn't, in panic mode, procure an abortion to avoid scandal.
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Old 06-17-2019, 07:05 PM
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It does seem very likely that the future Catherine the Great's daughter, who died young, was fathered by the future King of Poland. She definitely had an illegitimate son, Alexis Bobrinsky, by Grigori Orlov. And it's quite possible that her son Paul was fathered by her lover Sergei Saltykov, but it's probably best not to go there because it'd mean none of the Romanovs since were actually real Romanovs! One of George III's daughters, Princess Sophia, is also supposed to have had an illegitimate child, and that seems a lot more likely than the Princess Louise story.
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