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  #361  
Old 11-27-2016, 06:27 PM
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Is the judje writting an encyclopedia as sentence ?
Are they laughing at the public ?????
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  #362  
Old 11-30-2016, 07:58 AM
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Not surprising at all - an extremely complicated case on top of other workloads. Takes a long time to sift through the law and facts, often conflicting.
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  #363  
Old 12-16-2016, 09:47 PM
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more on cristina in this article, titled with what she said in court: 'i can't wait for this to be over so that i don't need to step on this country ever again'

disappointing behaviour for who was formally (and still is 'unofficially' as no one really takes her seriously anymore and was discarded from any official representation) a 'princess of spain'. [madam, if you think spain is not a country you want to 'step in ever again', why not renouncing to your infanta title?]

in the article, they mention that cristina has a good relationship with her mother and sister, but not with her father or brother. speaking as to her family rejecting her she said 'Do you know how hard it is to have to ask permission to get a glass of water in what has been my home for life? ".

cristina and inaki blame letizia for all their evils.

they also say that cristina and inaki 'still don't think they did anything wrong', and she is cited saying that she didn't do anything 'that any other spanish person wouldn't do'. on her leasing of property illegally for the noos foundation she said 'who doesn't do things like these?'. the article says 'she does not show the least remorse or repentment'.

the article also talks about how bad juan valentin has taken this experience.

regarding her presence in this case, Cristina de Borbón replied: "At the beginning of this process they told me not to worry and to be calm because they would not impute me and imputed me; then they told me not to worry because the matter would not go to trial, and I was seated in the Then the court would admit the previous question - the famous doctrine Botín that was used by his lawyers - and that I could go, and here I am ... But, come on, I'm calm". she has internalized that inaki will enter prison, but she isn't giving up her dynastic rights.


Infanta Cristina: "Qué ganas tengo de que acabe esto para no volver a pisar este país" | loc | EL MUNDO


these two make me want to vomit....
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  #364  
Old 12-16-2016, 11:10 PM
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Wow that's terrible
No happy families there then


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  #365  
Old 12-17-2016, 02:08 AM
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If the quotes are actually hers, I can just say: wow!

Did she really say all this or do 'sources' claim she says/thinks it?
She must be under a lot of stress and seems to be burning her brigdes if these quotes are real ones.

Did she actually mention her sister-in-law or is it an interpertation by the newspaper?
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  #366  
Old 12-17-2016, 02:22 AM
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It is a very understandable reaction of an utterly exhausted person after, as the article mentioned: "61 sessions in Court, together lasting 164 days, in six months time". And it is even more understandable seeing what the Infanta Doña Cristina herself is actually accused of. Any other Spanish citizen with the same accusation would see this case administratively dealt or maybe has to spend one afternoon in a tribunal. This was pure class justice, but then in the reverse meaning of the word.
  #367  
Old 12-17-2016, 03:34 AM
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I have been in and of this thread, so I haven't following the scandal as others have.

Why would Cristina blame Letizia for her misfortune. Does she think that she called the authorities on her or that she pressured Felipe not to assist her. I really don't get it.

If its true...I can see why she said it. More out of frustration and despair than actually meaning it. Kind of like...will someone rid me of this tiresome person but not really expecting anyone to do it. Sometimes when one is stressed and under pressure you say things you don't mean. If she said it probably wasn't that smart to let someone hear it.
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  #368  
Old 12-17-2016, 03:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
It is a very understandable reaction of an utterly exhausted person after, as the article mentioned: "61 sessions in Court, together lasting 164 days, in six months time". And it is even more understandable seeing what the Infanta Doña Cristina herself is actually accused of. Any other Spanish citizen with the same accusation would see this case administratively dealt or maybe has to spend one afternoon in a tribunal. This was pure class justice, but then in the reverse meaning of the word.
I have to agree with you. The more actual facts I read about this trial and what Cristina is accused of, (and who is accusing her), the more I think she's been set up as a whipping boy by individuals and organizations that are themselves the very definition of the word "corrupt." And for every solid fact about the case I've found, I've had to wade through pages upon pages of malicious gossip, second hand rumors and angry vitriol on the level that's usually reserved for war criminals or serial rapists. Add to that her father's inflammatory "justice is equal for all" statement which he had to have known would be interpreted as referring to his daughter and son in law, and to Felipe taking away her ducal title despite her not having been convicted of a crime, and I can absolutely see why she might want to distance herself from Spain right now. That's provided the article is true, of course, and not still more rumor mongering.

I don't have much sympathy for Inaki Urdangarin, however. While I don't think he was the amoral devil that's been described in the press, I do think he was overconfident and he got himself in way over his head with things he was unqualified to be dealing with in the first place. He also made the biggest mistake someone who's married in to a royal family can make, IMO - he forgot that his privileged lifestyle was dependent on his wife and her family, and therefore he needed to watch his step. I don't doubt that, in the end, the Spanish royals will circle the wagons around Cristina and her children. Inaki? Not so much.
  #369  
Old 12-17-2016, 04:02 AM
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I think the point with Cristina is that she is morally guilty but not legally, and people would have expected from her to show some remorse, humility or common sense. But she didn't show that but insisted stubbornly on her privileges. Felipe took away her title, what he can do based on morals, and other institutions tried to make an example of that because its always great to direct the anger of the public onto somebody else.

I always found it questionable of both JC ('above the law') and Felipe (taking away the title) sticking their necks out on moral grounds. Regarding JC and morals, no comment, and Felipe is his son, he will be no stranger to his fathers' dealings of the past (the economic raise of Spain) and obviously it took years for both to do something about Inaki, being well aware what he was doing, only when it became a public relations matter he was thrown under the bus (followed by the stubborn Infanta). And he was only thrown under the bus because it seems he is stupid and arrogant beyond belief, refusing all possible (lucrative) lifelines along the way down.

Therefore Inaki is a different matter because it looks that he is legally guilty.
  #370  
Old 12-17-2016, 04:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I think the point with Cristina is that she is morally guilty but not legally, and people would have expected from her to show some remorse, humility or common sense. But she didn't show that but insisted stubbornly on her privileges. [...]
The "privileges" of the Infanta Doña Cristina are that she can sit "61 sessions in Court, together lasting 164 days, in six months time" for an alleged misdemeanour of which the Public Prosecutor has requested a discharge (!) because of insufficient supporting facts and for which an ordinary Spaniard -if guilty- gets an administrative sanction.

The Infanta should show remorse, humility or common sense? But she considers herself innocent of the alleged misdemeanours. So why showing remorse, humility or common sense? Seen from her stance she has no reason for that.

Then the King taking away her title Duquesa de Palma de Mallorca: a shameful and cowardly act. While it is not at all for sure that the Infanta will be convicted for anything, he already sacrificed his sister on the altar of the public opinion. What will Don Felipe do when the Tribunal follows the Public Prosecutor and discharges the Infanta? Restore her as Duquesa de Palma de Mallorca? No... the bitter words of the Infanta are very understandable indeed.
  #371  
Old 12-17-2016, 04:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The Infanta should show remorse, humility or common sense? But she considers herself innocent of the alleged misdemeanours. So why showing remorse, humility or common sense? Seen from her stance she has no reason for that.
Well, it became clear already years ago that Inaki was involved in criminal dealings what had an impact of the daily life of the Infanta (the big house, lifestyle etc) Nobody believes that she didn't know what Inaki was doing, even if it cannot be proven in a court of law.
And in this situation, knowing that your husband is involved in criminal dealings, or at least being told by a lot of people over months or even years, the expected reaction would be to, lets say, avoid the limelight or attention, yet Cristina did the opposite and all this in the worst recession the country had seen for a long time. She is a person of royal status and should have known better: in this situation to brag about position, money or social status is just wrong.

For me, the SRF as a whole is not better when it comes to morals, for me Cristina is just an example of what is really going on in the family behind closed doors, it's a different matter when it comes to image, of course. Then they are trying to sell that they are whiter than white, what a joke.
  #372  
Old 12-17-2016, 05:20 AM
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El deseo de la Infanta Cristina: "Qué ganas tengo de que acabe esto para no volver a pisar este país" - Bekia


https://translate.google.com/transla...-pisar-pais%2F
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  #373  
Old 12-17-2016, 05:55 AM
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Duke, I do not believe that any Royal Family is white and pure, as in all classes of society they do not escape problems, and having power and influence the risk of taking advantage of certain privileges is always there.

Cristina's problem has always been that obsessed in her pride and accustomed to a life of privileges ... she has never seen reality. Iñaki was unintelligent, too ambitious, and Cristina's big mistake was to look the other way.

She lives in Switzerland, working for fabulous salaries in jobs that she has obtained and maintained by friends of Juan Carlos and with protection of the Spanish police. According to the press, also Juan Carlos and Sofia help to finance the exclusive education of her children. What else does she want?

On the title of nobility, the duchy was an honor ... and Iñaki used that honor to do business, and filled his pockets with public money from the citizens of that city. For the city of Palma de Mallorca was an offense that they used that title, they had already eliminated the street of the "Dukes of Palma" and wanted to officially ask the Royal House to withdraw the title ... was inevitable. Cristina is still Infanta of Spain that is a greater honor, and that is a title that her husband can not use.
  #374  
Old 12-17-2016, 06:55 AM
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What happens to the Infanta (great jobs, good salaries) happens to almost all royal children in reigning monarchies. It comes with the package of belonging to a family in the top of the social pyramid.

Doña Cristina already lived a luxury lifestyle before Urdangarín became an executive of NOOS, so the big house and big lifestyle was not connected to NOOS per sé.
  #375  
Old 12-17-2016, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
What happens to the Infanta (great jobs, good salaries) happens to almost all royal children in reigning monarchies. It comes with the package of belonging to a family in the top of the social pyramid.

Doña Cristina already lived a luxury lifestyle before Urdangarín became an executive of NOOS, so the big house and big lifestyle was not connected to NOOS per sé.
I agree with you - usually 'golden jobs' are given to family members by friends and connections, eg the job Cristina currently holds, provided by the Aga Khan. Elena's husband Jaime held a similar job during the marriage.

Inaki is different, because he was too arrogant and stupid to accept such a job (he turned down a 200.000 Euro per year job at Laureus because he felt it it was not good enough), he wanted to provide all the luxury life by himself, so he started doing shady deals involving public money because of his status, son in law of the King, and the 'business' went well. He funded the extra-luxurious lifestyle on stealing public money (JC even recommended him). Yes, Cristina is a rich woman (she'll become really weathly when her parents pass away), but Inaki wanted more, he wanted to show off what he created, what a great business guy he was and his wife looked the other way. People already started asking questions when they bought and renovated the Pedralbes house, way over the top for Inaki.

In the end the King had to force Inaki to take a 'golden job', Telefonica in Washington, to get him out of the way, but it was already too late, because the economic situation was turning to the worse and the King thought it was a good idea to shoot an elephant in Africa, both incidents made public opinion change and people taking a closer look to the dealings of the SRF. Cristina became a scapegoat because she did not want to do what the public relation department asked her to do, back down and be quiet.

You are right lula, no RF is white and clean, but over the years people could witness some difference of behaviour with all family members, when in public and in private, what leads to the thought that they are all hypocrites:

Juan Carlos: travelling to Africa with his mistress and shooting an elephant, nobody would have known had he not broken his hip, in times of economic hardship
Sofia: travelling to Washington and posing with Inaki, who was already accused of stealing public money, for pictures, smiling, after the scandal broke, in times of economic hardship
Felipe: not doing anything about it for years, still posing smiling with Inaki on his birthday shortly before the scandal became public
Letizia: not in connection with Cristina and Inaki but her yoga friend, involved in a credit card scandal, labelling the magazines writing about it as 'sh*t', assuring her friendship, 'to hell with the rest', meaning everybody outside their circle = the public.
  #376  
Old 12-17-2016, 08:31 AM
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The big house was bought with money from Noos, help from Juan Carlos and a mortgage loan very beneficial to them from the bank where Cristina works. Before they lived in a flat, in a nice neighborhood, but much smaller... The doubt of how they were able to buy that great house and pay for the great reform always existed.

For example, Infanta Elena and Marichalar lived for many years renting in a flat that was owned by a friend, it is known that Jaime de Marichalar was able to buy his own house with the help of an inheritance he received from an aunt.

Iñaki was a handball player, that in Spain is a secondary sport, did not win the money of a soccer player. It was when he left the sport, that he started with business ... he wanted to succeed and earn money fast, without the necessary experience and intelligence to handle those businesses.
  #377  
Old 12-17-2016, 08:46 AM
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[...] ... he wanted to succeed and earn money fast, without the necessary experience and intelligence to handle those businesses.
In all alleged corruption cases in all countries it shows that also people with necessary experience and intelligence to handle those businesses are waaaaay open for "deals". It happens to the best and the brightest. Manipulation of the LIBOR interest rate by the top banks. Manipulation of the software of Volkswagens so that test results of diesel pollution would be more favourable than in reality. Fannie Mae and Lehman Brothers trading in worthless mortgages. Etc. The governing Partido Popular is buried in corruption. This did not prevent them to remain by far the biggest political party in Spain, by the way.

Morale of the story: whether Urdangarín was up to the job or not, experienced or not, intelligent or not: most experienced, most intelligend and most capable CEO's in the world have been open to corruption, simply because they could not resist the seduction of great wealth streaming their way.
  #378  
Old 12-18-2016, 05:45 AM
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It is a very understandable reaction of an utterly exhausted person after, as the article mentioned: "61 sessions in Court, together lasting 164 days, in six months time". And it is even more understandable seeing what the Infanta Doña Cristina herself is actually accused of. Any other Spanish citizen with the same accusation would see this case administratively dealt or maybe has to spend one afternoon in a tribunal. This was pure class justice, but then in the reverse meaning of the word.
Sorry but this is crap. She is a privileged woman living a privileged life thanks to working and middle class Spaniards. She abused her royal status thinking her husband and her had card blanche because she was an infanta. Wrong.

The wheel of justice in Spain is slow but inexorable. For everyone. Most importantly she'a been judged publicly - we don't want her in Spain. Neither the King nor the Parliament can't control her dynastic's rights, they belong to her. However, this will change when amendments to the Spanish Constitution are made following political parties' discussions on the way.
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Old 12-18-2016, 06:00 AM
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If the quotes are actually hers, I can just say: wow! or make that WOW!

Did she really say all this or do 'sources' claim she says/thinks it?
She must be under a lot of stress and seems to be burning her brigdes if these quotes are real ones.

Did she actually mention her sister-in-law or is it an interpertation by the newspaper?
The stuff about her sister in law is the dramatic interpretation from the newspaper to make the story more interesting. Letizia sells so if she can be enmeshed in the article so much the better. LOC is the gossip section of El Mundo. What they don't know they invent or embellish. Kind of like Daily Mirror.
  #380  
Old 12-18-2016, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post

You are right lula, no RF is white and clean, but over the years people could witness some difference of behaviour with all family members,N when in public and in private, what leads to the thought that they are all hypocrites:
There are hypocrites everywhere:

Prince Phillip - he's had several affairs along the years. Loves hunting.
Prince Andrew - he's selling his name to whoever buys it. Loves hunting.
King Gustav - several affairs. Loves hunting.
Prince Bernhard of Holland - Nazi sympathizer and "founder of WWF" - he shoot anything that moved.

Prince Phillip is quite popular despite being a misogynist, sexist and racist self.

Frankly, they can all go to hell. I want my Head of State to have principles and Felipe is a principled man.
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