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  #261  
Old 10-12-2018, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
A baronetcy would be ideal.. giving the eldest Brooksbank Son a title to inherit, [and I suspect] that is the minimum the DoY would angle for..
The difficulty with that is Andrew went on record to refute this when the reports of him asking for the Princesses' future husbands to be given titles. But I suppose that's only true until it's not.

Another thing I just remembered. If Chris' tweet is entirely based on the fact that Eugenie hasn't added Mrs. Jack Brooksbank to her title (I'm assuming that was his issue since he specifically mentioned Brooksbank not in her title as an issue in his tweet), that's actually not unprecedented. Princess Margaret never added Mrs. Armstrong Jones to her title either. She was just HRH The Princess Margaret.
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  #262  
Old 10-12-2018, 05:35 PM
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True about Princess Margaret - until Tony was given an Earldom and then she added Countess Snowdon. Tony wasn't give the title though until Margaret was expecting David.

I can see a knighthood as a way to give Eugenie an additional title 'Lady' which Princess Alexandra also has due to Angus being knighted. Tim Laurence was also knighted for service to Her Majesty so that is a possibility but how soon?? The other two men were married for many years before they were knighted. Mark, however, wasn't knighted despite nearly 20 years of marriage to Anne.
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  #263  
Old 10-12-2018, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Looks like there might be a title coming for Eugenie and Jack?? As of today she is still to be called HRH Princess Eugenie of York (not Brooksbank). However, it seems that might not remain the case in the near future ...

Via Chris Ship ITV Twitter
Does Mr. Ship mean that Princess Eugenie will continue to be styled Princess Eugenie of York for the moment, but will change to Princess Eugenie, Mrs. Jack Brooksbank/Mrs. Brooksbank in the near future? If the intention is that Princess Eugenie will take her husband's surname, what would be the reason for postponing the name change?
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  #264  
Old 10-12-2018, 11:25 PM
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Maybe the continuation of her styling is for public consumption via the media? As in 'we will continue to call her by the name the public knows her as for the time being'. Of course to friends and acquaintances she will most probably be known as Eugenie Brooksbank. Look how long it took the media to stop calling Kate by her former name.
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  #265  
Old 10-12-2018, 11:49 PM
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When did the media stop calling Kate by her former name? I regularly still see her called Kate Middleton and Meghan as Meghan Markle.

Princess Eugenie is different in that she hasn't stopped being Princess Eugenie. She has simply added her husband's name.

Princess Alexandra is rarely called Mrs or Lady Angus Ogilvy outside of something like the Court Circular. To the public and media she is always known a simply Princess Alexandra and I see no reason why Eugenie should be any different.
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  #266  
Old 10-13-2018, 01:59 AM
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It seems what Chris Ship meant is that Eugenie was called HRH Princess Eugenie of York (not HRH Princess Eugenie, Mrs. Jack Brooksbank) on the night of the wedding (I imagine he was discussing the evening reception hosted by the Duke of York).
But her name tonight is still HRH Princess Eugenie of York
http://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/stat...61385251508225
As far as I have heard, official information regarding how Princess Eugenie will be styled (HRH Princess Eugenie, Mrs. Jack Brooksbank, HRH Princess Eugenie, Mrs. Brooksbank, or HRH Princess Eugenie of York) has not been released yet.
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  #267  
Old 10-13-2018, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Looks like there might be a title coming for Eugenie and Jack?? As of today she is still to be called HRH Princess Eugenie of York (not Brooksbank). However, it seems that might not remain the case in the near future ...

Via Chris Ship ITV Twitter
https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/sta...66336312438785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
It seems what Chris Ship meant is that Eugenie was called HRH Princess Eugenie of York (not HRH Princess Eugenie, Mrs. Jack Brooksbank) on the night of the wedding (I imagine he was discussing the evening reception hosted by the Duke of York).
But her name tonight is still HRH Princess Eugenie of York
http://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/stat...61385251508225
The press release for the wedding photographs says:
Her Royal Highness Princess Eugenie of York and Mr Jack Brooksbank have released four official photographs from their Wedding day.

https://www.royal.uk/official-photog...sbanks-wedding
Apparently, Chris Ship was correct on Princess Eugenie continuing to be known as "of York" and not adding (for the time being) "Mrs. Brooksbank" or "Mrs. Jack Brooksbank".
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  #268  
Old 10-13-2018, 09:08 PM
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There may be a name change later or maybe it has already occurred and perhaps they have not updated her name yet.
Technically she is no longer "of York", right?

Publicly Eugenie of York, privately Mrs. Jack Brooksbank. Or so.
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  #269  
Old 10-13-2018, 09:29 PM
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Publically she is HRH Princess Eugenie of York, Mrs Jack Brooksbank..according to what I have seen/heard.


LaRae
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  #270  
Old 10-13-2018, 09:36 PM
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If they are going to give Jack a title why didn't they announce on the morning of the wedding like William and Harry? It looks like fear of backlash.
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  #271  
Old 10-13-2018, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippy View Post
Technically she is no longer "of York", right?
If the press release is accurate, Princess Eugenie remains "of York" as of today, although she may drop it in the future. Dropping the territorial designation on a princess's marriage is not a law, only a precedent from the marriage of Princess Alexandra of Kent, who dropped "of Kent" and became Princess Alexandra, the Hon. Mrs. Angus Ogilvy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippy View Post
There may be a name change later or maybe it has already occurred and perhaps they have not updated her name yet.
If I understand his meaning, Chris Ship is implying that there is likely to be a name change in the near future, but not now.

I expect the intention always was to publish the wedding photos after the wedding. The press release may have been prepared in advance, but if the princess intended to change her name on the wedding day, it would have been simple to word the press release using her married name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippy View Post
Publicly Eugenie of York, privately Mrs. Jack Brooksbank. Or so.
That is a possibility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Publically she is HRH Princess Eugenie of York, Mrs Jack Brooksbank..according to what I have seen/heard.

LaRae
May I ask where you saw/heard it?
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  #272  
Old 10-14-2018, 01:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
If they are going to give Jack a title why didn't they announce on the morning of the wedding like William and Harry? It looks like fear of backlash.
Because they’re not going to give Jack a title. There has been zero chance of this happening since the engagement was announced.
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  #273  
Old 10-14-2018, 01:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
If they are going to give Jack a title why didn't they announce on the morning of the wedding like William and Harry? It looks like fear of backlash.
When we go back and look at the Princesses of the BRF since the days of Edward VII we find that either they fall into four categories

1. Married foreign princes and went to live overseas - Princess Maud married Prince Charles and Denmark and they went on to become the King and Queen of Norway

2. Married men with existing titles - Princess Louise married Earl Fife - who was raised to Duke of Fife on his wedding day but he was already a member of the House of Lords, Princess Alexandra 2nd Duchess of Fife who married Prince Arthur of Connaught, Princess Maud of Fife married the future Earl of Southesk in 1923 and Princess Mary who married the Earl of Harewood in 1922. NOTE Princess Maud was no longer 'Princess Maud' but simply Lady Maud when she married as she gave up the HH Princess Maud when George V introduced the 1917 LPs. Princess Alexandra became HRH Princess Arthur of Connaught on her marriage in 1913 and didn't lose that distinction as Prince Arthur was a male line grandson of Queen Victoria.

3. Married men without titles - Princess Margaret, Princess Alexandra and Princess Anne. Princess Margaret insisted that Tony have a title when she was pregnant with David - not on their wedding day - so that her children would have titles; neither Princess Alexandra nor Princess Anne's husbands were given titles on or after their weddings.

4. Was the heiress presumptive to the throne - Princess Elizabeth who husband was given the titles Duke of Edinburgh, Earl of Merioneth and Baron Greenwich on his marriage to Elizabeth because of her position.

So only one Princess descended from Edward VII has had her husband given a title who wasn't the direct heiress to the throne and that was Princess Margaret - a daughter of the monarch. The others either married men with titles or remained with titleless men.

The precedent is therefore clear - no title for Jack or Eugenie, unless catastrophe hits the Wales branch of the family.
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  #274  
Old 10-14-2018, 02:49 AM
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Originally Posted by VictoriaB View Post
Because they’re not going to give Jack a title. There has been zero chance of this happening since the engagement was announced.
of course he was never going to get a titlte. I don't know why anyone thought he would. Pss Marg's husband was the last one to get a title on marrying a princess and even thn he didn't get it till she was pregnant. Mark Phillips didn't want a title.. and even if he had, I am not sure the public would have been keen on the idea of someone getting a titlte just because he had married into the RF...
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  #275  
Old 10-14-2018, 05:06 AM
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Only the male spouses to female heirs tend to get titles:
Daniel Westling
Henri de Laborde de Monpezat
Claus von Amsberg
Philip of Greece and Denmark
Bernhard zur Lippe-Biesterfeld
Félix de Bourbon de Parme
Heinrich von Mecklenburg-Schwerin
Albert von Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha

In Belgium the Archduke Lorenz of Austria-d'Este was created a Prince de Belgium in his own right, but that had more to do with the changes in the succession than with the wish to make him a Prince. At that moment neither Philippe nor Laurent were in a relationship while their sister Astrid already had a family.

In Spain the infanta Doña Pilar married a Spanish aristocrat: the Vizconde de la Torre. He did not get a new title. Also the infanta Doña Elena married a Spanish aristocrat: a younger son of the Conde de Ripalda, but as a younger son Don Jaime had no title on his own. He did not get a new title. The Infanta Doña Margarita and the Infanta Doña Cristina married commoners. Neither of their husbands received a title.

Conclusion: both on the Continent as well in the UK only a male spouse to a monarch or a heir will receive a title.
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  #276  
Old 10-14-2018, 05:11 AM
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What happens in other European countries is irrelevant to the situation in Britain - just as the rules etc that apply to the House of Windsor are irrelevant to what happens in other royal houses e.g. in Sweden all grandchildren of the King are HRH, while in Denmark they are HRH or HH but in Britain there are clear rules which relate to where a child is a male line or female line grandchild with Edward chooses to also say 'no thanks' for his children and so they don't have HRH either.

Each House has their own rules which bear no relationship to the rules of any other royal house. There is no need, therefore, to even bring in what happens in Europe as th precedence in Britain is what will decide things in Britain.
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  #277  
Old 10-14-2018, 05:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
What happens in other European countries is irrelevant to the situation in Britain - just as the rules etc that apply to the House of Windsor are irrelevant to what happens in other royal houses e.g. in Sweden all grandchildren of the King are HRH, while in Denmark they are HRH or HH but in Britain there are clear rules which relate to where a child is a male line or female line grandchild with Edward chooses to also say 'no thanks' for his children and so they don't have HRH either.

Each House has their own rules which bear no relationship to the rules of any other royal house. There is no need, therefore, to even bring in what happens in Europe as th precedence in Britain is what will decide things in Britain.
Irrelevant or not, the tendence is clear: male spouses to a female heir get a title. The rest of the males do not. In Britain and in the other monarchies. That is pretty clear.
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  #278  
Old 10-14-2018, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
If Mr Brooksbank is made an Earl 'i'll eat my hat'...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Only the male spouses to female heirs tend to get titles:
Daniel Westling
Henri de Laborde de Monpezat
Claus von Amsberg
Philip of Greece and Denmark
Bernhard zur Lippe-Biesterfeld
Félix de Bourbon de Parme
Heinrich von Mecklenburg-Schwerin
Albert von Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha

In Belgium the Archduke Lorenz of Austria-d'Este was created a Prince de Belgium in his own right, but that had more to do with the changes in the succession than with the wish to make him a Prince. At that moment neither Philippe nor Laurent were in a relationship while their sister Astrid already had a family.

In Spain the infanta Doña Pilar married a Spanish aristocrat: the Vizconde de la Torre. He did not get a new title. Also the infanta Doña Elena married a Spanish aristocrat: a younger son of the Conde de Ripalda, but as a younger son Don Jaime had no title on his own. He did not get a new title. The Infanta Doña Margarita and the Infanta Doña Cristina married commoners. Neither of their husbands received a title.

Conclusion: both on the Continent as well in the UK only a male spouse to a monarch or a heir will receive a title.
That's not necessarily so. Prince Philip may have been impoverished but he was nonetheless a Prince of Greece and Denmark. Not only did they make him renounce his title and his nationality and gave him the empty title of Duke of Edinburgh. His blood was just as royal as Elizabeth's and they didn't even make him Prince Consort which Margrethe husband Henrik was.
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  #279  
Old 10-14-2018, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post

In Spain the infanta Doña Pilar married a Spanish aristocrat: the Vizconde de la Torre. He did not get a new title. Also the infanta Doña Elena married a Spanish aristocrat: a younger son of the Conde de Ripalda, but as a younger son Don Jaime had no title on his own. He did not get a new title. The Infanta Doña Margarita and the Infanta Doña Cristina married commoners. Neither of their husbands received a title.
The husbands of the Infantas Pilar, Margarita, Elena, and Cristina were Dukes consort. The Infantas themselves did not use ducal titles, but received dukedoms to provide their husbands with the right to use a title.
The husbands of the Infantas María Luisa, María Luisa Fernanda, María Isabel, and María Teresa were created Infantes of Spain in their own right.
The husband of María de las Mercedes, the Princess of Asturias, was known as the Prince of Asturias until the death of his wife and was created an Infante of Spain in his own right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
What happens in other European countries is irrelevant to the situation in Britain - just as the rules etc that apply to the House of Windsor are irrelevant to what happens in other royal houses e.g. in Sweden all grandchildren of the King are HRH, while in Denmark they are HRH or HH but in Britain there are clear rules which relate to where a child is a male line or female line grandchild with Edward chooses to also say 'no thanks' for his children and so they don't have HRH either.

Each House has their own rules which bear no relationship to the rules of any other royal house. There is no need, therefore, to even bring in what happens in Europe as th precedence in Britain is what will decide things in Britain.
The practice of according royal titles to members of the king's family and the style of HRH were adopted from other European royal houses.
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  #280  
Old 10-14-2018, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
The husbands of the Infantas Pilar, Margarita, Elena, and Cristina were Dukes consort. The Infantas themselves did not use ducal titles, but received dukedoms to provide their husbands with the right to use a title.



But that is the normal way in Spain. That a husband of a Duchess also is the Duke Consort. Like the husbands of the late Duchess of Albara where referred as Duk of Alba.
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