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  #61  
Old 07-20-2007, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan View Post
You're missing the point. Spain condemned the protests about the Muhammed cartoons, it's actually committing the same 'offense' by reacting this way to a cartoon. It's excessive and it's wrong. The cartoon isn't spreading lies, it's mocking two public figures. And that's now a crime? Jees.
Pardon, by very amused that is, to say that Prince Felipe does not work, it is a lie…

This is not a question of which the public opinion thinks, there is people to whom it will seem well and there is people to whom it will seem bad.


But evidently, the obligation of a public prosecutor and a judge is to cause that the law is fulfilled; and if they consider that there is a crime, will apply the law. And if they have made their work badly the higher commands will suspend to them, and if it has done it well there will be a judgment.
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  #62  
Old 07-20-2007, 06:51 PM
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Felipe and Letizia are not the ones to have the magazine removed, the judge is. If they were going to complain about something wouldn't it have been all those nasty reports about Leonor? Or Letizia's alleged eating disorders? A friend of mine has a theory that the government has decided to have a go at this magazine as a way of removing attention away from some government problems with ETA.( Of course this friend thinks just about eveything is a conspiracy , so take from that what you will. It would not be the first time a government has tried to deflect attention from one thing to another) I just think before anyone points a finger at Felipe and Letizia or the royal house we should be clear about who filed the complaint and why. Could someone that lives in Spain or is a much better Spanish speaker than me clear any of this up?
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  #63  
Old 07-20-2007, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan View Post
And will you applaud when they start book burning? That's the next step by your logic. Nobody is above criticism, absolutely nobody and if Felipe and Letizia can't stand a harmless cartoon then I'd suggest they reconsider taking on the role of King and Queen.

I respectfully disagree. I think a line needs to be drawn somewhere. Criticism and sacrificing ones dignity are two different things. In no way, shape, or form does this cartoon criticize(unless you want to count the comment about the most work Felipe has ever done). But in my opinion this cartoon just makes fun of something that they had nothing to do with and all for the sell, the MONEY.
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  #64  
Old 07-20-2007, 06:56 PM
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It's a lie but surely he's a grown man who can deal with it? Prince Frederik is called lazy, so are 99.9% of Royals. You deal with it, you don't take people to court and ban their work. It's pathetic and if Felipe thinks censoring the media is acceptable to protect his ego then quite frankly, I pity the people who have to call him King one day.
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  #65  
Old 07-20-2007, 07:08 PM
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But Beatrixfan, it's not Felipe doing this. It's the Spanish government to my knowledge Felipe hasn't said anything about this incident. This is higher up then Felipe. And being called lazy and being shown in cartoon form having sex with your wife is different. One is a criticism and one is not. Do you see the difference? Look at the bigger picture here this is not a cartoon about Felipe's work ethic really, it's about a new decision that the government has made to add an incentive for families to have bigger families. And to help make their point this magazine chose to use public figures, which is obviously for the shock factor that it would bring.
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  #66  
Old 07-20-2007, 07:10 PM
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Beatrix, once again, the PROBLEM IS NOT THE CRITIC, is more to say than the Prince does not work is habitual in the jokes, although it is a lie, is one more a joke than assumed. The subject of the drawing, is the payment by children whom Zapatero has promised… so to use the cartoon of the Princes did not have relation with the subject… but as the sketcher is republican decided to use to the Princes instead of a the president of the Government. The problem is that to make one “criticizes”, have represent of a way rather little worthy to two people. And there it is the limit… you can criticize, but for it it is not necessary to resort to images that can suppose an interference in private or the dignity of the people. The same image without representing anybody would not suppose any problem, the same critic with another type of image… but what they have done it exceeds the limits.

For whom it commented the ETA subject… yes, although it is sad, have obtained that the news of the fled ETA members has happened to background. In addition, this controversial does not let have strange things, the office of the public prosecutor, the judge… very long to explain.
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  #67  
Old 07-20-2007, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan View Post
Why? Why on earth should they be fined for printing a cartoon? And what do they deserve? You're talking as if this is the 15th century. What you're actually suggesting is that every form of art or media should be censored and surely you see how outrageous that is?
Insulting the King and his family is prohibited by law. IMO fine is the right punishment since the magazine mainly did it for money. I don't support to put the author into jail.
Nobody has suggested that the media should be censored, and they are not censored in Spain, otherwise the likes of Penafiel would have been banned long ago.
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  #68  
Old 07-20-2007, 07:12 PM
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I see the difference, however, I don't see the justification for using dictator-methods to silence what is essentially, tasteless humour. If Felipe doesn't care and hasn't complained, why should the Spanish Government come down so hard? At the end of the day, it sets a nasty precedent and something that I can't see ever being a benefit.
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  #69  
Old 07-20-2007, 07:13 PM
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Insulting the King and his family is prohibited by law.
And that's right is it?

Quote:
Nobody has suggested that the media should be censored
That's exactly what banning this cartoon is. Censoring the media, curtailing freedom and generally being extremely hypocritical.
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  #70  
Old 07-20-2007, 07:17 PM
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Well I believe just the opposite. It sets a precedent that this type of tastless humor concerning public figures will not be tolerated. These are much more then just the Prince and Princess of Spain. These are human beings, this a mother and a father, a sister, a brother, a aunt, a uncle, etc. Why couldn't the magazine had used just regular people to depict this? They could have chosen that route but they went for the shock value instead!
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  #71  
Old 07-20-2007, 07:17 PM
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Beatrix, if you haven´t it clear the Royal House, does not have relation with this subject. They never denounce nothing by great that is the barbarism.

The public prosecutor acts of office following the Penal Code, the judge accepts the denunciation, investigates and takes measures.
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  #72  
Old 07-20-2007, 07:21 PM
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Then if they don't denounce it, why should the Government? You're telling me what the law is, I know what the law is, I'm questioning the law.
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  #73  
Old 07-20-2007, 07:25 PM
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There is a specific law on the Royal Family, and for that reason the office of the public prosecutor acts directly, it exists mainly as far as defense of the image of the institution like Headquarters of the State, and of the defense of the people who exert a public position.

But in the same way, any anonymous person, who considers that their rights are not fulfilled or that its dignity is attacked must right to go to a court, and the judge, if she considers it opportune, would act in the same way. Since I have commented the excesses of the yellow press has taken to that some images of television are retained until the judge does not verify that they do not attack the dignity of certain famous personage.
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  #74  
Old 07-20-2007, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan View Post
And that's right is it?
You certainly can hold your opinions on this law, but it's the law the judge could exercise and he apparently did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan View Post
That's exactly what banning this cartoon is. Censoring the media, curtailing freedom and generally being extremely hypocritical.
This case the border line has been crossed.
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  #75  
Old 07-20-2007, 07:30 PM
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Once again, I know the law regarding the Royal Family. Repeating the fact that there is a law is not the discussion we're having here, what we're discussing is, is that law right when Spain portrays itself as democratic at the EU and UN. With laws like this that censor the media and the arts, surely Spain is lacking on the democracy front?
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  #76  
Old 07-20-2007, 07:33 PM
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I've been through the last few pages of the thread and removed links showing the magazine cover in question. I understand that there's a freedom-of-speech issue here, in terms of whether the magazine should have printed that cartoon and whether our members should be posting it in the threads.

While the debate about whether the cartoon should have been published is a legitimate topic of discussion here, our rules are clear as far as the cartoon itself is concerned. This is a privately owned forum and, as such, freedom of speech is limited by the Terms of Service of the parent company of the forum and by the forum rules. The Terms of Service include the following:

You hereby agree to refrain from engaging in any inappropriate conduct when using the Websites. Inappropriate conduct will not be tolerated and may result in the termination of member privileges. Inappropriate conduct is any conduct deemed by the Company to be harmful to the online community, including not limited to the following:
  • posting any content deemed by us to be obscene, sexually explicit, vulgar, threatening, harassing, or abusive;
  • posting content containing nudity or violence;
  • providing a hyperlink to any website containing nudity or violence;
which is also stated at the beginning of the forum rules. Since the Terms of Service forbids the posting of hyperlinks to pages containing nudity - and doesn't specify that the nudity has to be in the form of photos - all links to web pages showing the cartoon have been deleted.

Please don't post any more links to pages showing that magazine cover.

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  #77  
Old 07-20-2007, 07:43 PM
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Some people mistooks "democracy" with allow people to do what they wants, even if they offends other persons. Some get unusually offended when a person goes to church, but can't understand that others gets offended by a continuous use of nudity, encouraging of drugs, and broken of the family. Democracy is NOT to do what you wants. It's to be responsible about your rights and knows what are you doing and why.

vanesa.
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  #78  
Old 07-20-2007, 08:32 PM
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Totally in agreement. In this life, it is not possible to be lived without laws and to do what you want. There are limits that are not due to exceed.
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  #79  
Old 07-20-2007, 10:43 PM
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I always thought that cartoons were meant to be amusing and fun, not humiliating and downright insulting. The artist should definitely be made to, at the very least, apologise for his bad taste. A line has to be drawn and, (in my opinion) I think this line has been stepped over.
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  #80  
Old 07-20-2007, 11:29 PM
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This cover is tasteless and crass at its best. It's a serious offence to the Princely couple and to the institution of the monarchy . Obviously the person who made it has no idea about Felipe's work and his contribution to the creation of a good image of Spain. I wish these wanna-be serious journalists travelled to Latin America and other parts of the world and they'd be surprised about how well the Spanish Royal Family is regarded and much of the respect and admiration given to Spain by foreigners comes directly from the work performed by the SRF.
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