York Family News and Pictures 1: September 2003-September 2015

[Diarist]

I went racing today at Ascot [see other thead] and I bumped into two old friends who told me that Sarah is apparently heading off shortly for what was described to me as 'her usual summer luxurious jaunt to the sun'. Andrew and the Princesses are going too....

I know no more details and anyway at this stage I am treating the whole thing as speculation; if it is true, then I am reminded of the novel Vanity Fair' and the chapter entitled ' How to live on nothing a year'........not bad to be contemplating a luxury holiday when you are apparently penniless......

Alex

I see that the information that I received at Ascot was correct as I understand that Sarah has just returned from a week's holiday at Richard Branson's Necker Island and is now vacationing with Beatrice and Eugenie in Sotogrande..........

Not bad for someone who has almost been bankrupt......


I am sorry to sound cyncial

 

[Diarist]

Beatrice is now on holiday in Sotogrande with Eugenie and Sarah, Duchess of York.

Alex

 

[Lumutqueen]

Pictures? Articles? I wonder if Andrew will appear.

 

[Princess of Durham]

Thus far this is the only thing I could dig up ... no pictures.

A pucker escape to Sotogrande | Olive Press Newspaper | News

 

[Russophile]

Not cynical Alex, I wonder who's footing the bill myself.

 

[Charlotte1]

I see that the information that I received at Ascot was correct as I understand that Sarah has just returned from a week's holiday at Richard Branson's Necker Island and is now vacationing with Beatrice and Eugenie in Sotogrande..........

Not bad for someone who has almost been bankrupt......


I am sorry to sound cyncial

Not cynical but bitter, why begrudge Sarah the fact that she has rich friends who support her!? I don't understand the desire to be negative until you see Sarah living in a cardboard box on the Embankment. Paddy McNally has remained friends with Sarah since her divorce he has given her the use of his chalet for a winter holiday and house in Spain for a summer holiday. Lucky her, she doesn't pay for it, move on people. Richard Branson also gives her free accomodation, last year another friend flew her down to Nekker Island is his private plane. Again lucky her, why should total strangers be bitter?

Sarah had a business that failed and accured huge debts,(this time round it wasn't her spending but rather the failure of her Hartmoor business that caused her debt problem) well so did Prince Edward, his Ardent productions lost people a lot of money. Sarah's creditors got 25p to the pound, Edward's got 1p to the pound. Sophie Wessex's PR firm also went into liquidation, her creditors also didn't get all that they were owed. Sarah has a lavish lifestyle with much given to her for free, so the little green monsters start up, why should she get free holidays? Well that's the way it is!

 

[Midwestern Mom]

Well said Charlotte.


MM

 

[Princess of Durham]

True, Sarah's business went under but the problem is that despite all this she continues to "spend" large amounts of money on designer luggage, clothing and expensive restaurants. Even if friend buys all this for her it's just plain tacky and being a leech. In reporting or questioning how all her vacations are being paid for is NOT being bitter IMO. The point is, she continues to cry poor and needy on international talk shows and then goes on luxury vacations. Whether she pays for them or not, it is foolish and greedy and lacking in integrity and her cash for acess had little to do with her failing business. In the eyes of most people she is far past the point of needing to be defended and living in the Royal Lodge hardly qualifies for a homeless status. Oh, and she also plays fast and loose with the truth. Speaking the truth is not being either bitter or jealous.

 

[Daisiesforever]

In spite of the the "free" holidays and luxuries which are given to her, I do tend to agree with the Princess of Durham. Please do not "cry poor" on talk shows whilst entertaining a lavish lifestyle. The way in which she is plays on her two girls' sympathies is rather tactless as well. It is sad that she has had failed business ventures but then again many people experience that in todays economy and are literally forced to "cut their coat according the cloth".

 

[Meadow]

That is so true Princess of Durham. If Sarah didn't go around saying how broke and on the verge of homelessness which she has done many times it wouldn't be an issue. I don't think it is inappropriate to point out the hyprocrsy when flying around the world in first class for vacations others are paying for and crying poor mouth at the same time. Sarah has always been known for these lavish vacations that is where she got the name Freeloading Fergie it is a shame these friends don't offer her a place to live. But then she couldn't milk her links to Andrew and wouldn't have a Royal address. Not all the debt was Hartmoor there was also her own staff and businesses including chefs and bills from Royal Lodge. A split of what debt was the business and what was hers would be interesting to see.

 

[Charlotte1]

True, Sarah's business went under but the problem is that despite all this she continues to "spend" large amounts of money on designer luggage, clothing and expensive restaurants. Even if friend buys all this for her it's just plain tacky and being a leech. In reporting or questioning how all her vacations are being paid for is NOT being bitter IMO. The point is, she continues to cry poor and needy on international talk shows and then goes on luxury vacations. Whether she pays for them or not, it is foolish and greedy and lacking in integrity and her cash for acess had little to do with her failing business. In the eyes of most people she is far past the point of needing to be defended and living in the Royal Lodge hardly qualifies for a homeless status. Oh, and she also plays fast and loose with the truth. Speaking the truth is not being either bitter or jealous.

But how do you know that she's spending large sums of money on designer luggage, clothing and expensive restaurants. She's been photographed once leaving a restaurant in London with her daughters, the luggage she's had in years and I can't see the shopping for new clothes, since she's wearing the same long dresses for evening engagements that she's had for years. She doesn't cry poor on international talk shows, all she's said about money is that she's now for the first time debt free. She also points out that she needs to work, that's not crying poor, most people do need to work, she hasn't got a trust fund set up for her.
Having friends who invite you to holiday with them or give their homes so you can holiday with your children is not greedy. And yes it does sound bitter if that's what you're criticising Sarah for. Should she say no to her friends' offers and spend her holidays in that cardboard box at the Embankment?!

When Sarah moved out of Sunninghill after she and Andrew separated, she paid rent on the house she and her daughters moved in to. Andrew didn't pay for their living expenses, even after their divorce he just paid for the girls' school fees (admittedly quite a bit of money since they went to private schools) but Sarah paid the rest. (And got into heavy debt, since the living costs included a nanny's salary) A few years after their divorce Sarah and the girls moved back to Sunninghill and that reduced what she paid in living costs, but by then she was spending most of her time working in the US and rented an apartment in New York. After Andrew moved into Royal Lodge she continued to rent her New York apartment (she's subleasing it currently) and rent 2 different houses in the Windsor area. The girls moved into Royal Lodge, she was given a suite there since the girls for security reasons could not stay overnight at her rented houses nearby. Two years ago after a fire in the home she was renting she just stayed at Royal Lodge and didn't rent another house. (Mainly because she couldn't afford to since by that time her business had failed and she was in debt).

Her divorce package from Andrew, she agreed to sign over her share of Sunninghill (which Andrew then sold at a huge profit, Sarah got none of that money) The Queen agreed to buy a house for Sarah to live in, but it was to be placed in Beatrice and Eugenie's names. It was never to be Sarah's house, one was found that was suitable by the Queen's staff, since it had the necessary security. Sarah said no since she couldn't afford the staff to run the house, no other house was ever offered to her.

How can you say that her access for cash had nothing to do with her failing business!!? It was because of that business failing that she was heavily in debt! Prior to that she had quite lucrative contracts with Weightwatchers, so lucrative, that for a few years she even paid for Andrew's staff Christmas parties. Along with all her daughters' 'extras' Cash was being offered to her, she needed the money. Probably not her finest moment but she needed the money so it seemed a way of getting it. Not making any moral judgement on what she did, just stating a factual view of what she did.

If one wants to stand in moralistic judgement of Sarah (she lied etc) fine, but I prefer not to 'casting the first stone' and all that!

 

[expat]

I could never be a defender of Sarah, I highly disapprove of her, but one thing I must add, which in a way, is to her defense, she has no idea, and probably never will have any understanding of what "being poor" actually is. She has always had everything given to her, this continued when she lived with the very rich Paddy McNally. Then
as the wife of a royal she lived a very rich life indeed, with the added bonus of being given the respect and diffidence that is given automatically to those who are born or married to royals. She has no idea how other people live at all and I doubt very much whether she could ever understand the real meaning of poor or even "not very well off".

 

[kakieanne]

Sarah may be staying at one the most beautiful places on earth, living in complete luxury but it won't bring her peace in her heart. No matter how far she runs, she can't get away from herself. For a girl, who once appeared to have everything, I doubt that there is anyone here who would want to trade places with her now.

 

[camelot23ca]

IMO there are worse things Sarah could be doing than vacationing at the expense of her wealthy friends. It's true, sometimes these gifts come with strings, but if we're to apply that standard to Sarah then we need to apply the same standard to anyone who's ever accepted favours from friends. I'm sure there are instances of current members of the royal family accepting the eagerly given hospitality of their rich acquaintances. Better for Sarah to be off on someone's yacht or vacation home than to be trying to sell access to her ex or otherwise getting into trouble.

 

[Diarist]

I see where you are coming from Camelot23ca about double standards but IMHO the difference with Sarah is that by virtue of her marriage she is almost uniquely placed to be a useful contact and....Oh dear me, do you see where I am inadvertently heading?.........the cash-for-access scandal is almost rearing its head again......

Just to make it crystal clear, I do not wish Sarah any ill will, but the problem is that she has had a good number of 'holidays' in the past year or so and I think that now would be an excellent time for her to 'lie low'. Holidaying in the very upscale Sotogrande is a bit of a difficult issue for any member of the Royal Family at the moment in view of the recession and I feel that when the inevitable photos of ' Beatrice and Eugenie luxuriating in Sotogrande' hit the press, it is going to invite adverse comment: Beatrice has already had a holiday in St Tropez and both girls will no doubt be making their way up to Balmoral before long.....Wonderfully tempting though Sotogrande is, I think that Sarah and the girls would have done better to avoid Sotogrande altogether this year....

Just my thoughts

Alex

 

[ladongas]

As Mel Brooks said...

"It is good to be the King" (or Duke, or Princess, or...).

Lucky old them to be in a position to get so many holidays in so many beautiful places. In the states, poor President Obama is being criticized for daring to go to Martha's Vineyard for 10 days, and of course he takes his work with him.

How uninterested would we all be if the Royals were all work and no play? Go for it, kids! You will be criticized for whatever you do, so go ahead and enjoy the life you were born into.

 

[luluflossie]

The thing is, Sarah wants to be a part of a group/society to which she really does not belong. She somehow manages to keep appearing at various events as though she is some sort of "special person" and she is not. She is merely the ex-wife of the Duke of York and the Mother of Beatrice and Eugenie and that does NOT qualify her as a special person in society. She loves the press attention, I suspect she truly feels she is nothing without it. Her girls are adults and yet she still manages to hold their hands in public as if they were children and in this case she is the child. I don't see her letting go of them easily because if she did she wouldn't get the press that goes along with them. I know that sounds harsh and I don't mean that she consciously does this but there is no doubt that when she is with them she manages to get attention. The longer this goes on the more pathetic she appears. I'm sure she has enough money to live quite well IF she didn't feel entitled to a very, very extravagrant lifestyle. She is really appearing very desparate.

I don't think she ever has to let her girls go, she'll always be their mother, but all the other things she does for attention is cringe worthy. Especially parading her daughters on that awful American tv show. Living with Prince Andrew as she does, means any money she earns can be spent on herself. Lucky lucky.

 

[Charlotte1]

First things first; I don't want to see Sarah living in a cardbox box and of couse she will not be reduced to this. And I am not 'jealous' either - indeed, I have nothing to be jealous of! What I do want to see is Sarah living with an appropriate degree of humility at the moment, because however you dress it up, it is her immense sense of entitlement coupled with greed that has bought shame to the Royal family and has caused a lot of pain to many of those who have lost out financially.

My objection to Sarah's vacation is because it seems the height of bad manners and poor taste to holiday in this way, regardless as to whether the house and flights etc are being provided by a third party when you have in VERY recent memory you have been unable to pay your staff the money to which they were entitled. It seems that although two of her most senior staff did receive around 80% of what Sarah owed them, The [London] Times and The Daily Telegraph have reportedly frequently that Sarah had a total of 15 staff and that the majority of them received only 25% of what Sarah owed them. It also seems that the staff who received this low settlement figure were not highly paid or wealthy.....

For my own part, if I was owed money by my employer and then only received 25% of what I was entitled to, I would be angry if I then saw him on an all-expenses paid jaunt.

The Telegraph has reported that since the 'Fake Sheikh' 'sting' that Sarah has had 20 trips and holidays abroad. Perhaps it would be better if she had spent August in Beautiful Berkshire.

Side Issue - it is all very well accepting 'free hospitality', but we always say that 'there is no such thing as a free lunch'. I always wonder whether those wealthy foreigners who host Sarah are really doing for the best reasons or whether they have some kind of ulterior motive. Sarah is no longer royal, but she is the mother of two Princesses, and I fear that to some hosts, that could be quite an advantage. Many are wealthy businessmen; at some stage if they have a new factory or a property development or anything where association with Royalty could be useful, the Princesses could find themselves under an awkward obligation at 'pay back time'

Second side issue; on her marriage and up to the time of her divorce [and indeed for some years afterwards] Sunninghill Park was NOT owned by Prince Andrew outright - and Sarah NEVER had a legal share in the property. The Queen was the beneficial owner, having taken a LEASE of the property from the Crown Estate. It was some years after the divorce [and Sarah's settlement] that the Queen bought the freehold from the Crown Estate and apparently transferred the beneficial ownership to Andrew.


Just my views

Alex

Never mentioned the word 'jealous'. But the first paragraph, again it's your opinion, she's not living with humility. I would say she is since she's had to make that excruciating Oprah documentary (complete with reediting since the first version was 'too boring') because she needed the money. Pre fake sheik expose, she was pouring what money she had (her fee from the Young Victoria film, she was executive producer and income from her children's books) to propping up Hartmoor. She certainly learnt humility when she was booked for public speaking engagements in a tent in the middle of winter in Canada. (all to earn money to keep herself afloat) And then there's the very public humiliation of the whole expose and the constant rehashing as she's doing PR to try and sell her book. There is a certain amount of humble pie involved, I've watched a number of her recent interviews, including the Australian 60 minutes and she's certainly not loving having to relive what she did in the past.

Sarah on the 2 occasions she got heavily in debt could have chosen the easy way out. That is declare herself bankrupt and just walk away, in that case all her creditors would have got nothing. Instead she worked and in the 1990s debt paid all the creditors, so rather than caning her for the fact her some of her creditors this time didn't get their full amount. How about acknowledging that they got some money rather than nothing. Would you feel any better had you been Edward's creditor for Ardent and only got 1p to the pound for the money you invested, or Sophie's and got nothing? And they still live in a huge estate rent free and have nice holidays. Less press follows them, but they too have a yearly ski trip, summer holidays in Italy. It's all relative, Sarah's creditors got something, which is better than nothing which is why they settled. The procedings could have gone on and they got nothing. Sarah is on holidays at the moment but how much press coverage are they receiving in the UK? None as far as I can see from the major papers at least.

Did you bother to read who paid for the many trips Sarah has done this year? The latest one was to Argentina for the Hello photo spread, Hello magazine paid for that one. The various trips in the US and Canada were all paid for by the Oprah network since it involved work on her TV series. Here's where the distortion comes in, how dare Sarah travel the world! What with? Well she was paid for the Oprah documentary and presumably paid an advance for her book as well so she has been earning money. TV appearances are also paid, public speaking engagements the travel expenses are part of the deal as well. So along with the friends who provide the free travel comes the travel where she is working. She's certainly not sitting infront of the TV eating bonbons!

The free hospitality Sarah is receiving is from long time friends Paddy McNally with a house in Spain and Verbier, Richard Branson with Nekker, guy whose name I've forgotten in The Hamptions (one with private jet). Christmas time she goes to Norway to stay with the family of the guy who was rumoured to be her boyfriend for a number of years. She's sticking with a small group of people she's known for years.

Sunninghill Park was given to Andrew and Sarah as a wedding gift. The site was originally one which had a house that was supposed to be for the newly wed Elizabeth and Philip. The house burnt down before the could move in and lay derelict, sometime after they were married the Queen handed over the land (fair enough crown estate land) to them and the house was built as a wedding gift. They didn't pay for the house the Queen did, but the house belonged to them both. (even if the land didn't) Part of her divorce settlement Sarah had to sign over her claim to the house (afterall it was on crown land), she was to be compensated in that a house was to be bought and placed in Beatrice and Eugenie's names. This house was never bought. When Andrew wanted to sell Sunninghill Park (since he was given the use of Royal Lodge after the Queen Mother's death) then it was removed from crown land so he could sell it and make money from it, but the house originally belonged to them both.

 

[kakieanne]

In defense of Prince Andrew (and I am certain that Sarah would agree with me), he does not owe her one pound. Since their divorce, he has been more than generous to her. Sarah has had free room and board in a palace no less, for years and years. And after that scandal (I don't want to mention it again), when most men would have thrown her out on the street, he not only publically supported her, but he also paid off her debts (millions of pounds).

In defence of Edward and Sophie, their money problems were years ago. Since then they have been hard-working royals, who have a budget and live within it.

And in defense of Diarist most of us thoroughly enjoy her posts. They are well-written, interesting and informative. We are all different people, from different countries and backgrounds and it is only natural that we are going to have different opinions. Hopefully, when we disagree, we are able to do it in a nice way.

On that note Charlotte1, you and I obviously have different opinions on the definition of the word "humility".

 

[Diarist]

I've done a 'cut and paste' job from another thread in order to answer this question:

Diarist can you confirm what she is supposed to called. Should she be called The Duchess or is it Sarah? I thought it was now supposed to be Sarah Ferguson, Duchess of York. But everyone who interviews her still calls her The Duchess. It drives me crazy!

The correct form of address for the former wife of a Duke is quite simply 'Madam'. This is NOT abbreviated to 'Ma'am' (which is correctly only used when addressing the Queen and Royal Highnesses.)

I think that the reason why interviewers address Sarah as ''Duchess'' stems from the fact that the correct way to address a [non-royal] Duchess who is still married to (i.e. not divorced from) her ducal husband is 'Duchess'. This sounds strange to many of us, as of course one does not address the wife of an Earl as 'Countess'. But there you have it, the correct way to address a married duchess is 'Duchess', [just as the correct way to address her husband is 'Duke'; yes, honestly, this is true]. There is however one slight refinement to this: an employee will address his or her ducal master or his wife as 'Your Grace'.] Nowadays, even after a divorce, socially some people do continue to address the divorced duchess as 'Duchess', but the correct formal form of address is 'Madam'.

Since Sarah's 'title usage' [as I should call it] takes place in a business context [i.e. not a social context] I think that she should only ever be called 'Madam'.

One point that I should mention here is this; when considering the correct way to address any divorcee, consideration should ALSO always be given to what titles they themselves bear; Sarah is the daughter of a 'gentleman' and so she bore no title before her marriage. Sometimes in England, you find a divorced wife of a Duke calling herself (say) 'Lady Helen Smith'. Before automatically thinking this is wrong, check carefully: Lady Helen could have been the daughter of a Duke, a Marquess or an Earl herself!! Therefore, on her divorce from the Duke, Instead of styling herself Helen, Duchess of Wherever, she is quite entitled to revert back to her own ''style''.

Finally, if it is any of any consolation, titles confuse nearly everyone in England; even the Royal Family, come to that, for George VI, when granting Prince Philip the Title of 'Duke of Edinburgh' presumed [wrongly] that he was also making him a Royal Prince. He was not, and the error had to be rectificed subsequently, otherwise Prince Charles could hav been born ony a Lord!!!


Hope this helps

Alex

 

[Diarist]

Never mentioned the word 'jealous'..

Sorry; I inferred this from your earlier post about 'green eyes', which I took in the English way as referring to jealousy.

But the first paragraph, again it's your opinion, she's not living with humility. I would say she is since she's had to make that excruciating Oprah documentary (complete with reediting since the first version was 'too boring') because she needed the money. Pre fake sheik expose, she was pouring what money she had (her fee from the Young Victoria film, she was executive producer and income from her children's books) to propping up Hartmoor. She certainly learnt humility when she was booked for public speaking engagements in a tent in the middle of winter in Canada. (all to earn money to keep herself afloat) And then there's the very public humiliation of the whole expose and the constant rehashing as she's doing PR to try and sell her book. There is a certain amount of humble pie involved, I've watched a number of her recent interviews, including the Australian 60 minutes and she's certainly not loving having to relive what she did in the past.

I suppose it is a matter of opinion as to what counts as humility. Personally, and this is of course only my own opinion, when I watch the excerpts on Oprah etc, I do not see any humility at all. In my humble opinion, what I see is a girl who will do and act in (almost) any way for money. To me, Sarah is so desperate for money that she will do anything within reason - for example, she did tell one interviewer that she appeared in the Oprah documentary because of the opportunity for therapy and advice from Dr Phil and Suze. Since therapy and advice would have been available to her free in the UK under our National Health Service and our Debt Counselling programmes, I rather got the impression that it was money that was driving Sarah forward, not humility. And I also think that one has to distinguish between 'humility' and 'humble behaviour': again, it is a matter of opinon, but I think that to me, living it up in a lavish, lavish place is not humble behaviour in my book, and although you are entirely correct I am sure about the source of £ for Sarah's trips ['Hello' and the like] again, I feel that humility is maintaining a low profile and not appearing in the world's expensive hotspots, regardless of who is paying. To me, it seems wrong that Sarah's staff, who were blameless, have to watch their erstwhile employer holidaying in such luxury. We hvae an English expression about 'not rubbing their noses in something' and, to me, with Sarah globetrotting in the way that she is, it is inappropriate conduct when people have suffered financially from Sarah's follies, principally her greed and mismangement.

 

[Diarist]

Sarah on the 2 occasions she got heavily in debt could have chosen the easy way out. That is declare herself bankrupt and just walk away, in that case all her creditors would have got nothing. Instead she worked and in the 1990s debt paid all the creditors, so rather than caning her for the fact her some of her creditors this time didn't get their full amount. How about acknowledging that they got some money rather than nothing. Would you feel any better had you been Edward's creditor for Ardent and only got 1p to the pound for the money you invested, or Sophie's and got nothing? And they still live in a huge estate rent free and have nice holidays. Less press follows them, but they too have a yearly ski trip, summer holidays in Italy. It's all relative, Sarah's creditors got something, which is better than nothing which is why they settled. The procedings could have gone on and they got nothing. Sarah is on holidays at the moment but how much press coverage are they receiving in the UK? None as far as I can see from the major papers at least. ..............................................................................
The free hospitality Sarah is receiving is from long time friends Paddy McNally with a house in Spain and Verbier, Richard Branson with Nekker, guy whose name I've forgotten in The Hamptions (one with private jet). Christmas time she goes to Norway to stay with the family of the guy who was rumoured to be her boyfriend for a number of years. She's sticking with a small group of people she's known for years.

Actually, in my humble opinion, had Sarah declared bankruptcy, I expect that her creditors could have done equally as well or perhaps even better with regard to money. Australian bankruptcy I know nothing about, but in England and Wales, the bankrupt's Trustee in bankruptcy then takes over most of a person's property [basically leaving you the 'tools of your trade']. Sarah would immediately have lost her collection of exquisite and valuable jewellery. The famous Louis Vuitton luggage that you have mentioned would have gone, as would her designer clothes. Such items, as well as their instrinsic vintage worth, would have had an enhanced value because of their provenance. Sarah also owns some nice items of valuable furniture apparently. Bang!! All that would have gone under the Auctioneer's hammer. But the real loss would apparently be her real estate: it is always not entirely clear what Sarah owns, but it seems that there is her mother's estancia and its lucrative polo pony breeding business, and there has been mention in the British press about an appartment in new York, property in England and in Italy. She is also reputedly the beneficiary of a portion of her late father's will; the Dummer Farmhouse and remaining land, presently the home of her stepmother Susan, has reputedly been left to Susan for life and then to Major Ferguson's children, Sarah and her sister Jane and his children by Susan. I therefore think that it was a HUGE advantage to Sarah in not declaring bankruptcy - her debts have been settled by others and her own capital apparently remains intact....

Ardent and RJ-H are different in my opinion. Prince Edward's company, as you so rightly say, went into receivership. Ditto RJ-H. But to me, the difference is that these were businesses that tried to trade. Sarah's financial woes - as wiser forum members than me have posted here - are the result of years and years of uncontrolled personal spending. As we know, Ardent was a film maker and RJ-H was a PR company. Sarah's company, Hartmoor, might well have been a victim of the recession, but the real reason for its demise must surely lie in the fact that it was UK analysts have described:- it was a flawed business model right from the start, as its 'stock in trade' was ''the Sarah brand' '', not the bona fide business of film making and PR. Hartmoor was set up in 2006 to manage Sarah's principally American-based career in publishing, media and public speaking. But, if we are really honest, Sarah may well be an excellent public speaker and she has published books and appeared on numerous TV programmes, but isn't the real reason for the public success she has met in this area her connection with Royalty? This is not to say that her books etc aren't good at times, but the point is this -other talented people have failed to get the same significant amount of exposure with their books etc and the reason for this is because Sarah has her 'royal profile', and that is why there was always this flaw in Hartmoor's operation: as every year passes, Sarah's connection with Royalty diminishes; she married in 1986 and separated in 1992; she has been separated and divorced from Andrew for nearly 20 years - there is a limit to how 'Royal' she can be; IMHO she does what she can to 'promote' her 'connection' with Royalty, whether it is calling herself 'The Duchess of York' on her business cards, clutching the hands of her unfortunate grown-up daughters, stressing that she is living in 'Royal Lodge' and about her 'closeness to Andrew' and her Admiration of 'The Top Lady' [The Queen]. But the fatal flaw is always there and Hartmoor was always going to be ultimately vulnerable to this: Sarah is no longer royal and her connection to the Royal Family diminishes with every passing week and indeed the stage is now set for the following generation: Catherine and William. And IMHO, it is obvious who America has now taken to their hearts the most, regardless of Sarah's bleeding-heart pronouncements. And as for Sarah's chance of being taken seriously as a business professional: what savvy business professional admits that she has not the faintest idea of elementary financial basics - the famous recent declaration by Sarah that she has never understood money..........?

And as for holidays: I still think that Edward and Sophie's Portuguese bucket-and-spade holiday was far less lavish than Sarah's jaunts... and let me say again, I still have a continuing unease about the amount of benefit her well-heeled 'hosts' derive from visits by the holidaying Sarah and her two Royal 'meal-tickets'; for a start, Branson is charming, but his Necker Island is a commercially run enterprise - I suppose 'haunt of Royalty' looks ok when spouted by the realtor dealing with the vaction rental of the property......... And she is certainly putting a 'Royal Stamp' on Sotogrande!!

 

[Diarist]

Did you bother to read who paid for the many trips Sarah has done this year? The latest one was to Argentina for the Hello photo spread, Hello magazine paid for that one. The various trips in the US and Canada were all paid for by the Oprah network since it involved work on her TV series. Here's where the distortion comes in, how dare Sarah travel the world! What with? Well she was paid for the Oprah documentary and presumably paid an advance for her book as well so she has been earning money. TV appearances are also paid, public speaking engagements the travel expenses are part of the deal as well. So along with the friends who provide the free travel comes the travel where she is working.

I have answered much of this already but will say again that I think it would have been infinintely more classy for Sarah to have been maintaining a lower profile when it comes to 'Hello'. I just do not think that maintaining a high public profile to generate money is an appropriate career - she is just continually trying to cash in on her once-royal status.

She's certainly not sitting infront of the TV eating bonbons!

I have to answer this with a joke - I am sure that I am not the only member of TRF who saw Sarah being chauffered in the back seat of a Limo past Buckingham Palace popping sweetie after sweetie [candy] into her not-so-little mouth! It reminded me of the story that the papers published when Sarah lost her Weightwatchers contract. Sarah's alleged reason was that she wanted to move on with her career; Weightwatchers apparently were concerned that she actually did not really seem to be representative of a weight-loss success story!!

Sunninghill Park was given to Andrew and Sarah as a wedding gift. The site was originally one which had a house that was supposed to be for the newly wed Elizabeth and Philip. The house burnt down before the could move in and lay derelict, sometime after they were married the Queen handed over the land (fair enough crown estate land) to them and the house was built as a wedding gift. They didn't pay for the house the Queen did, but the house belonged to them both. (even if the land didn't) Part of her divorce settlement Sarah had to sign over her claim to the house (afterall it was on crown land), she was to be compensated in that a house was to be bought and placed in Beatrice and Eugenie's names. This house was never bought. When Andrew wanted to sell Sunninghill Park (since he was given the use of Royal Lodge after the Queen Mother's death) then it was removed from crown land so he could sell it and make money from it, but the house originally belonged to them both.

A very interesting point Charlotte, but in fact, however much we all like to think otherwise, Sarah NEVER had any legal interest in Sunninghill's legal title. You are certainly correct that the house is described as a wedding gift to Andrew and Sarah - this is the way that the Royal family 'works' - houses that are described as 'wedding gifts' to the non-royal spouse are in fact never conveyed into their name. This was first seen in respect of the Queen's children when Gatcombe Park was 'given to Princess Anne and Mark Philips' by the Queen as a 'wedding gift'. But poor old Mark Philips NEVER had any legal interest in the property, which was put into the name of Anne alone [source; The Times]

The above is not meant to offend. I do not dislike Sarah at all; I have met her in a social context many times over the past 30 years from long before she got married to Andrew. I just wish that she tried to find a way - in conjunction with her family if necessary - of trying to find a less-controvsial way of existing - one with NO public profile at all..........

Alex

 

[Zonk]

Please note that this is the York Family thread to discuss activities when there are more than two Yorks at an event.

That way, we don't need to discuss the most recent vacations in Sarah, Beatrice and/or Eugenie's thread. There is one central location.

Let's keep the Sarah talk in her threads, the York marriage and divorce in its own thread, etc.

 

[NotAPretender]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte1
Not cynical but bitter, why begrudge Sarah the fact that she has rich friends who support her!? I don't understand the desire to be negative until you see Sarah living in a cardboard box on the Embankment. ...


...Sarah has a lavish lifestyle with much given to her for free, so the little green monsters start up, why should she get free holidays? Well that's the way it is!
--------------------------
That's a very, as we say on another forum, interesting assumption on your part.

--------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte1
... Should she say no to her friends' offers and spend her holidays in that cardboard box at the Embankment?!!

------------------------
How very dramatic. Do please provide the source wherein Diarist speaks of wishing to see Sarah "at the Embankment" - that that you have accused her in purple prose of doing so - twice. I certainly have not seen it, but perhaps you have additional sources not presently in this public domain.
------------------------
I think it's in terribly poor taste for Sarah to be galivanting 'round the globe when she's crying poor in her show and book, and I also foresee considerable difficulty as "the girls" outgrow the need for their mother to "dress" them (as she claims she wanted to do before the wedding in April.)

She can enjoy her holidays to her heart's content; it seems that she does. But she can't talk out of both sides of her mouth. "I'm so terribly innocent and put upon" she cries. Yet she's shrewdly able to swing from free holiday to free holiday, like Tarzan through the trees, grasping from freebie to freebie.

I find her antics amusing and the defense of them by her deeply devoted "fans" to be terribly overreaching. There's just so much rewriting of history and distortion of facts that it begs to be refuted. My profession as a consultant directly relates to this; I'm a hired professional skeptic, for lack of a better way to express it. And when I see shrill personal attacks amongst posters on a board like this, it tends to be wonderful smokescreen for obfuscating facts and fact-finding. Much like Sarah's tantrum on 60 Minutes!

I enjoy the discourse here and Diarist's postings.

I have always enjoyed the "hobby" of Royalty for a lot of reasons, one of which is the mathematical precision of genealogy and its far messier ramifications. One if which is that Sarah has given birth to a child who has grown up to look a heckuva lot like Queen Victoria while herself acting like the culmination of that Queen's nightmares.

Alex....IMO, Sarah's current events should include as quiet of a life as possible. IMO, if she wants to greedily swing from vine to vine on her grasping world tours, then good for her. BUT - as you say - she can't do that while stiffing the help, lying about how wrongly she was "done" to, denigrating the Queen by misrepresenting the rather fine divorce settlement and gift of a future back in 1996. It's simply disgraceful.

 

[Meadow]

I want to thank you so much Diarist for clearing up her correct title for me and for your wonderful insights. It always bothers me when she is referred to as The Duchess still. I do wonder if she is aware of her correct title being Madam and just doesn't want to use it or as some of us think she uses it to continue to milk her links with the RF. I think going on so many holidays free or not does not look good for anyone. Especially in these times. Sarah is just out of debt but she stiffed a lot of people who will be lucky to get one holiday this year. I like you wonder what these friends expect in return there is no such thing as a free lunch as they say. It also doesn't look good that she continues to hang on to the girls the way she does. They are all together on a holiday after most of them have all just been on a holiday. What Sarah does next will be telling I don't see her going away quietly she just needs the attention and the Oprah show did nothing but line Sarah's pockets. Not sure if there is anything she can really do it has also been clear to many that she really has very little connection with the RF except her daughters and Andrew. I do wonder if Beatrice's boyfriend is included in these holidays he has been around for awhile and actually got invited to the last wedding. The girls need to start showing up to events without Sarah tagging along it is starting to look pathetic and I agree about the Sarah wanting to dress them. Sarah isn't exactly known for her dress sense anyway and they are too old for their mum to pick out their clothes.

 

[Grandma828]

In my old grandma's mind I would like to see Sarah retire from public life entirely, She could live privately at Royal Lodge, do her own cooking and housework and then start doing local charity work. Either at a hospital, daycare, library, school, literacy council etc. But privately, then she would begin to build up her own self esteem and eventually realize that she does have something to offer the world. There are always babies to be rocked, or children to be read too. Or kids in the hospital that could use entertaining .She might surprise herself.

 

[Susanna Wynne]

I second Diarist and others who appreciate the insights she shares with us. Please, Diarist, keep them coming!

As for those who support and excuse the behaviour of Sarah, Duchess of York: I cannot. I do feel a sense of pity for her.

But she was reasonably well educated, had been exposed to the royal family through her father's work for the Queen, and one could assume that she should be/have been smart enough, and aware enough, to understand the damage her outre and often wretched behaviour could do to her husband, her daughters, her Queen and her country. Viewed from that perspective, it is wrong to make any excuses for her. One could "forgive" her, but then she betrays her lack of sense by continuing her endless rounds of thoughtless, embarrassing and disgraceful actions. She NEEDS to STOP and maintain a very low profile for about five years; she should do many acts of kindness and selflessness for those less fortunate than she; stop going on expensive vacations; wear clothing that is understated and conservative, smile, stop her conspicuous consumption -- and above all: STOP talking to and confiding in the press and/or television personalities.

And finally, why is it that does she not understand this?

 

[Osipi]

I want to thank you so much Diarist for clearing up her correct title for me and for your wonderful insights. It always bothers me when she is referred to as The Duchess still. I do wonder if she is aware of her correct title being Madam and just doesn't want to use it or as some of us think she uses it to continue to milk her links with the RF. I think going on so many holidays free or not does not look good for anyone. Especially in these times. Sarah is just out of debt but she stiffed a lot of people who will be lucky to get one holiday this year. I like you wonder what these friends expect in return there is no such thing as a free lunch as they say. It also doesn't look good that she continues to hang on to the girls the way she does. They are all together on a holiday after most of them have all just been on a holiday. What Sarah does next will be telling I don't see her going away quietly she just needs the attention and the Oprah show did nothing but line Sarah's pockets. Not sure if there is anything she can really do it has also been clear to many that she really has very little connection with the RF except her daughters and Andrew. I do wonder if Beatrice's boyfriend is included in these holidays he has been around for awhile and actually got invited to the last wedding. The girls need to start showing up to events without Sarah tagging along it is starting to look pathetic and I agree about the Sarah wanting to dress them. Sarah isn't exactly known for her dress sense anyway and they are too old for their mum to pick out their clothes.

I'd throw in a year's worth of doughnuts for Diarist too if I had them. Its been said that when the student is ready, the teacher will appear" and for a lot of us Diarist has been just that. She's been there, done that and knows the ropes to get around the proverbial obstacle course and is generous in giving us her insights. (and as she states something that a lot of us could do more of too is state where its her opinion) Thanks Alex!

I also didn't realize that the proper title was Madam. I actually thought that ahem... them kinds of Madam were called that these days. Shows what I know. The more I've been thinking about Sarah's title is that perhaps The Duchess in our common ordinary language is used is because until Andrew remarries, she is the only one with the title? We all mess up on the "proper" usages. Even as a married woman, I cringe when my name isn't used in an address. Mrs. John Smith gives me the shivers. Its the changing times. I do however see Sarah using The Duchess of York as a way of acclaiming importance that she really has no right to. It is that usage that tells me that she needs to let go and find something that can be connected to her, that she can claim as her own. She has it but hasn't really done much to use it.

You're right about no such thing as a free lunch. Here's an example. Sarah goes to Richard Branson's Nekker Island right? We know Beatrice and Dave are together and he works for Branson's Virgin right? (see Zonk.. I'm keeping it on topic with throwing in a bit of other Yorks ). So.. Nekker Island has the connotation of a posh spot to go! Guess what? We could all go there for a week! Necker Island - Guest services. So, there it is.. the word is out now on TRF. I'd have to give up doughnuts for the rest of my life to afford it but.. I could. That's the publicity the Nekker Island vacations get in the tabloids and gets people thinking... oooh nice place. Commercialism at its best. Until I checked it out.. I thought it was Branson's own private island for his own use and she was staying in his house. Sheesh.. learn as you go right?

Sarah does have something and with her daughters now that they're going to be in the private sector could work wonders for Children in Crisis, the charity that Sarah founded back in 1993 (thanks Iluvbertie) Should they go gung ho and focus on that, I think it'd really make a big difference. It'd lend the "royal" flavor to something that is worthwhile and get away from all the negative press that is more harm than good.

On a side note and kind of an amusing thought to me is that on the subject of Sarah being called the Duchess of York, perhaps in her own private moments, she's cackling and saying "fix THAT you ornery men in grey!"
She never really did like them did she?

 

[Osipi]

In my old grandma's mind I would like to see Sarah retire from public life entirely, She could live privately at Royal Lodge, do her own cooking and housework and then start doing local charity work. Either at a hospital, daycare, library, school, literacy council etc. But privately, then she would begin to build up her own self esteem and eventually realize that she does have something to offer the world. There are always babies to be rocked, or children to be read too. Or kids in the hospital that could use entertaining .She might surprise herself.

You just gave me a thought too. One thing I really can see in the future is Sarah being very much a doting grandmother. Them kids are going to grow up on "Little Red" I love it! She'll make a wonderful one I bet too. As much that has been said about Sarah using her daughters, there's a lot about the closeness that entire family has that is wonderful to watch.