What now for William & Catherine: Future Duties, Roles and Responsibilities, Part 2

[tommy100]

I think it very much depends on each royal. We know from documentaries and media profiles that Anne basically asks her charities and organisations she is linked to twice a year what if anything they would like her to do for them. These are then put to Anne twice a year for her to decide what to accept and not. Anne apparently is also of the attitude that whilst in London her diary is to be filled so if she has some time between engagements her office set about filling it. I presume by the sounds of it that Anne must basically give her team the dates she will work and the dates she won't and sets them to fill her working days as much as possible but with some key dates - state visits, investitures, commemorative dates etc factored in.

Ed and Sophie may well do the same but I guess as they live much closer to London they might not have quite the same attitude to "filling the time" as they can work from Bagshot a lot of the time and if there is a free evening etc they can go back home rather than spend the night in London whereas Anne seems to be a bit more "I'll spend Tues, Wed, Thurs and Fri morning based in London so fill that time". Ed and Sophie still have James in school and I imagine their children's commitments have also played a large part in diary planning - periods of exams etc.

 

[Leopoldine]

The discussion about the number of bread and butter engagements the Prince and Princess of Wales do has gotten me to wondering if each working member of the Royal Family decide for themselves how many they will do. For example, does Princess Anne decide she will do over 400 and the Duchess of Edinburgh decide she will do over 200? I am not sure how it works. This is probably the wrong place to put this question, but I don't know where it fits.

This is an interesting point. Harry addresses this in "Spare", on page 237. Keep in mind he worked on this book with a full head of steam.

" ... Certain family members had become obsessed, feverishly striving to have the highest number of official engagements recorded in the Circular each year, no matter what, and they succeeded largely by including things that weren't, strictly speaking, engagements, recording things that were mere blips, the kinds of things Willy and I wouldn't dream of including. [....] It was all self-reported, all subjective".

[....]

"But the main reason the Court Circular was a joke, a scam, was that none of us was deciding in a vacuum how much work to do. Granny or Pa decided, by how much support (money) they allocated to our work. Money determined all".

So, if we go by Harry's explanation, Prince William is making these monetary allocations for himself and Catherine. King Charles is deciding on the financial distributions for the other working and perhaps retired royals.

 

[yukari]

To me there is a difference from doing things differently and being less accountable and transparent.
If William does the same when King it is a worrying sign IMO.

Now that you mention it, I try to google Charles'. I can find last year Annual SG Report and Annual DoL Report, but I can't find report on his expense report of his DoL income nor how much income tax he paid. In my google search result, there's also article mentioning about how William didn't follow his father in disclosing his expense but no mention about Charles continuing or discontinuing his previous practice of disclosing his.

Now, from what i've read both DoL and DoC are private estate, so why and whom Charles and William owe the accountability and transparancy on how they spend the income the earn from their private estate? I think it's good if they disclose it, but i don't think they have/must do it, just like they don't owe anyone to disclose their medical records.

 

[royal-blue]

I've read several articles recently which have described the Wales couple as workshy and enjoying too many holidays. While I definitely don't have this view, as obviously they have 3 young children, an upcoming house move and cancer to contend with, should the couple at least be seen to be sharing more of the royal workload. Charles is extremely busy, as is Anne of course.

 

[The Crown]

I've read several articles recently which have described the Wales couple as workshy and enjoying too many holidays. While I definitely don't have this view, as obviously they have 3 young children, an upcoming house move and cancer to contend with, should the couple at least be seen to be sharing more of the royal workload. Charles is extremely busy, as is Anne of course.

That's true. It's every year the same. The older royals are working so much more than the younger ones. Catherine is again only nr 10.
90 years old Duke of Kent is working more than her.
81 years old Duke of Gloucester is working more than the William, the Prince of Wales

I don't understand this. Don't they know that this doesn't look good. Such a nice couple, so nice children. But in the end one think they must be very lazy.

 

[Bubbly]

I kind of hope that William will abolish the Court Circular, when he is King and that there will be no more working royal cousins anymore. I don't think that these comparisons are fair.

 

[Lord-of-the-Manor]

It's a rather bizarre measure of work anyway. A royal can attend an all day seminar and it's 1 engagement in the CC. Another royal can shake hands with 5 different people and it counts as 5 engagements. Using the prevailing logic, royal B did more 'work' than royal A.

 

[duke of poliganc]

Well they have tried their best to emphasize on the differences between “working” royals and non working royals and the idea that the monarchy is a firm, if your core job description is showing up, why would you abolish the proof of your work? In a normal company I can just say that I’m not interested in showing up for work cause I do one major task once a week and shouldn’t not be compared to another employee who show up to do their tasks 5 days a week

 

[Bubbly]

But is showing up the core job description? IMO the King has head of state tasks and William probably should be aware what‘s happening in the duchy. I think all the other work with the foundation and so on is great and helps for a positive image of the monarchy, but it’s not needed for the functioning of the state.

I say this as someone who thinks that they don‘t appear lazy and I would be disappointed, if they wouldn‘t do their project work and meeting people. But I think they don‘t actually need to do 500 engagements or something like that. This is why I think the monarchy will be fine with less working royals in the future.

 

[Lord-of-the-Manor]

Plus it would be one thing if William and Catherine were the weak link in family, no disrespect to other royals, but the popularity of the Wales family is what's keeping the monarchy afloat.

 

[duke of poliganc]

I hate to say it again but popularity based on being a handsome young couple with a fashionable wife and cute children isn’t going to last forever, in 10-15 years when the young couple are in their mid 50’s approaching 60 and the young children are away to focus on their education, what would help with the popularity and support of a monarchy!
If the heir to the throne is going to be a part time royal one the same line of other heirs like Belgium, Denmark and Netherlands, all of them waived away their appanage until they are fully working royals so why have a part time royal have the Cornwall estate just to accumulate wealth for years until they feel they are ready to take up full time work as royals!

 

[Lord-of-the-Manor]

Why do you say their popularity is based on their looks? I like and support them and their looks have nothing to do with it. To each their own. There's always going to be people who aren't satisfied or critical, but the majority of the British public think the Wales family are doing a fine job.

 

[Blog Real]

I also like William and Catherine. And I think they're doing a good job. And they seem to be raising George, Charlotte, and Louis well.

 

[duke of poliganc]

Am not talking about royal watchers who are interested in royalty but about the general public who can differentiate between the Duke of Kent and prince Michael, as someone who is interested in royalty I can mention several great things the Wales’s have done but can an average person from the uk who is not interested in royalty point out a cause that made them admire the Wales’s? Again being a good parent for cute children is only a short time reason for popularity as the children will grow up!

 

[Bubbly]

I hope the British public noticed too that they IMO never put a foot wrong, got through the occasional crisis with dignity and don't have a messy private life, which plays out in public. I would be surprised if these things wouldn't play a role when it comes to their popularity.

 

[Diarist]

Assessing the work done by Royal Family members is not easy - quantity is not a totally reliable guide.

Tim O' Donovan, who used to compile a list of royal engagements which he then set out in a letter to The Times each year, was always meticulous in pointing out that his findings were NOT to be taken as a 'league table', adding that comparing each engagement was not 'comparing like for like', as they all differed in length and complexity. Also, each requires an amount of preparation, which is also not computed.

[Sadly, Tim O Donovan died in the latter part of last year and so his 'annual letter to the Times with details and amounts of engagements' is no more]

Showing up and undertaking engagements in public has ALWAYS been very important to the BRF - I can remember HLM saying that she 'has [had] to turn up to be believed'.

I certainly would not describe the Waleses as 'work shy'. Kate I think should be given the benefit of the doubt - she was very ill indeed with her cancer and because [entirely correctly IMHO] she kept her illness (mostly) out of the pubic eye, I think many people did not appreciate how ill she actually was.

William IMHO could perhaps undertake a few more engagements - it is true that on the face of it he has been working less than the Duke of Kent and I think that makes for poor optics. Certainly, when the King was Prince of Wales, he seemed to be far busier than WIlliam. But that is a perception, which is why I said 'seemed'.

There is another important difference between the Waleses and the older working royals and that is the fact that William and Kate are very, very closely involved with raising their children. This of course takes time and I am pleased that they are organising their lives in this way; HLM is regarded as 'almost divine', but she did not spend a lot of time 'child rearing', a fact that even Lady Glenconner mentioned, and I rather think now that more time spent in sorting out her family might have led to a better outcome..

Just my views...

 

[Somebody]

Charles is known to be a workaholic; William clearly is not. That in itself is not a disqualification but will no doubt lead to a lower number of hours at work - and indeed more time to raise their children (and care for his wife). We do know that he is very involved with the Duchy of Cornwall - which is mostly behind the (media) scenes but takes up a lot of his time. From the start William and Catherine have taken a different approach in being involved in a smaller number of initiatives but being more involved with each of them.

 

[Lord-of-the-Manor]

Just because things have been done a certain way for a long time doesn't mean it's right or the only way. William has said he wishes Charles could spend more time with his grandchildren. 3 of the late Queen's children got divorced. William has every right to do things his own way with regards to his family and his obligations

 

[TLLK]

Assessing the work done by Royal Family members is not easy - quantity is not a totally reliable guide.

Tim O' Donovan, who used to compile a list of royal engagements which he then set out in a letter to The Times each year, was always meticulous in pointing out that his findings were NOT to be taken as a 'league table', adding that comparing each engagement was not 'comparing like for like', as they all differed in length and complexity. Also, each requires an amount of preparation, which is also not computed.

[Sadly, Tim O Donovan died in the latter part of last year and so his 'annual letter to the Times with details and amounts of engagements' is no more]

Showing up and undertaking engagements in public has ALWAYS been very important to the BRF - I can remember HLM saying that she 'has [had] to turn up to be believed'.

I certainly would not describe the Waleses as 'work shy'. Kate I think should be given the benefit of the doubt - she was very ill indeed with her cancer and because [entirely correctly IMHO] she kept her illness (mostly) out of the pubic eye, I think many people did not appreciate how ill she actually was.

William IMHO could perhaps undertake a few more engagements - it is true that on the face of it he has been working less than the Duke of Kent and I think that makes for poor optics. Certainly, when the King was Prince of Wales, he seemed to be far busier than WIlliam. But that is a perception, which is why I said 'seemed'.

There is another important difference between the Waleses and the older working royals and that is the fact that William and Kate are very, very closely involved with raising their children. This of course takes time and I am pleased that they are organising their lives in this way; HLM is regarded as 'almost divine', but she did not spend a lot of time 'child rearing', a fact that even Lady Glenconner mentioned, and I rather think now that more time spent in sorting out her family might have led to a better outcome..

Just my views...

I tend to agree with your views. The Wales are clearly not following the child rearing examples set by previous generations. It seems to me that they\ Wales (and quite likely the Tindalls and Phillips) are following the example set by the Duke and Duchess of Edinburgh. Like the Edinburghs, the Wales have not sent their children off to boarding school by the age of eight like King Charles and the late, Diana Princess of Wales and other royals of their generation chose to do in the 1990's. They are far more involved in the hands on, day to day work required in the upbringing of their children. Yes, they have a longtime nanny, but at this point in time, they're committed to raising their children at home.

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

I tend to agree with your views. The Wales are clearly not following the child rearing examples set by previous generations. It seems to me that they Wales are following the example set by the Duke and Duchess of Edinburgh. Like the Edinburghs, the Wales have not sent their children off to boarding school by the age of eight like King Charles and the late, Diana Princess of Wales chose to do in the 1990's. They are far more involved in the hands on, day to day work required in the upbringing of their children. Yes, they have a longtime nanny, but at this point in time, they're committed to raising their children at home.

I absolutely agree! I think they are also following the example set by Catherine’s parents. And with Catherine’s commitment to early childhood she is also practicing what she preaches as best she can. And research shows that birth to 5 years is critical in a child’s development thus affecting the rest of their lives. TLLK, when I read your comments about Charles and Diana sending their children off at 8 to boarding school, the picture of HLM shaking Charles’ hand returning from a long trip when he was just 3 years old flashed in my mind. Charles and Diana did a better job when their children were very young and in my opinion, William and Catherine are doing an even better job.

 

[TLLK]

I absolutely agree! I think they are also following the example set by Catherine’s parents. And with Catherine’s commitment to early childhood she is also practicing what she preaches as best she can. And research shows that birth to 5 years is critical in a child’s development thus affecting the rest of their lives. TLLK, when I read your comments about Charles and Diana sending their children off at 8 to boarding school, the picture of HLM shaking Charles’ hand returning from a long trip when he was just 3 years old flashed in my mind. Charles and Diana did a better job when their children were very young and in my opinion, William and Catherine are doing an even better job.

Good point about the Princess of Wales wanting to be a hands on parent when her children were very young (birth to age five). I remember that famous photo of HLMQEII shaking her eldest son's hand when she returned from her long overseas trip.
AFAIK, almost no royal children are being sent off to boarding school like their parent(s) were a generation or two ago. I tend to believe it's because their parent didn't care for the experience.

 

[TLLK]

Just because things have been done a certain way for a long time doesn't mean it's right or the only way. William has said he wishes Charles could spend more time with his grandchildren. 3 of the late Queen's children got divorced. William has every right to do things his own way with regards to his family and his obligations

The Edinburghs appear to be determined to NOT follow the path that Prince Edward's older siblings and their former spouses followed. And that also includes child rearing and schooling as neither Lady Louise or the Earl of Wessex were off to boarding school early on like Prince Edward's nephews and nieces.

 

[duke of poliganc]

The incident of the late queen meeting Charles after a tour is an extreme case not the usual one she went on a 6 month long tour while Charles was less than 5, this is not an equivalent of being a working parent, working 5 days a week getting the children to bed at night and spend the weekend with the children + holidays and summer vacation!

IMHO working part time and sometimes less than part time for both the mother and father to be almost stay at home parents at the same time is also not normal and an extreme example!

There is certainly a point in the middle between leaving a 5 years old for 6 months and having two stay at home parents at the same time!

Even sending the children for boarding school at Eaton is not the same as in the old days when they shipped royal children to boarding schools in Scotland, France or Switzerland as Eaton is 20-30 minute drive from their home in Windsor!

I don’t really believe the argument about focusing on the work for the Duchy of Cornwall is the reason for the low number of engagements as Charles the one who is credited in raising the profile of the duchy making it one of the most profitable enterprises in the Uk was doing so while doing 300-400+ engagements a year!

 

[Somebody]

You seem to have a very clear impression of the number of hours each of them works; would you mind spelling out what number of hours you think they average each week that equates to '(less than) part time' and 'almost stay at home parents'. And, preferably, what that number is based on as a lot of their work is behind the scenes.

 

[duke of poliganc]

You seem to have a very clear impression of the number of hours each of them works; would you mind spelling out what number of hours you think they average each week that equates to '(less than) part time' and 'almost stay at home parents'. And, preferably, what that number is based on as a lot of their work is behind the scenes.

Well you don’t have to look far as Iluvbertie has been doing great work for years counting each engagement that she can and the number of days they spent doing them!

A part time employee work 2 to 3 days a week for 20-30 hours and sorry but the numbers just don’t add up

As for the work behind the scenes argument well I can say that I paint better the Leonardo da Vinci and sing better the bob dylan but only in the privacy of my room! If you don’t see it you won’t believe it right?

 

[TLLK]

I hope the British public noticed too that they IMO never put a foot wrong, got through the occasional crisis with dignity and don't have a messy private life, which plays out in public. I would be surprised if these things wouldn't play a role when it comes to their popularity.

The members of the British public who participate in YouGovUK or other such polls are likely taking those points that you mentioned into account. The Wales are still topping the charts as the most popular members of the BRF.

 

[Somebody]

Well you don’t have to look far as Iluvbertie has been doing great work for years counting each engagement that she can and the number of days they spent doing them!

A part time employee work 2 to 3 days a week for 20-30 hours and sorry but the numbers just don’t add up

As for the work behind the scenes argument well I can say that I paint better the Leonardo da Vinci and sing better the bob dylan but only in the privacy of my room! If you don’t see it you won’t believe it right?

Thanks! So, you think that is a good reflection of their work hours. In that case, there is little to discuss because I and many with me believe that to be a very flawed way to look at their work. Even Iluvbertie and others making such lists have admitted many times that engagements are not comparable to each other (the same workday could be included as 8 different activities (for example, if it's audiences) as well as 1 activity (for example, a regional visit). And some engagements require a lot more preparation than others... so a very flawed statistic to assess their working hours. Even in terms of visibility, it's not that good of a statistic, as some events attract a lot more media attention than others.

And I see plenty of evidence that the Waleses spend a lot of time on a few major projects based on the output that wouldn't be there otherwise (and some background stories like the one of William's frequent visits to the Duchy - which is very much appreciated by the tenant-farmers) - and appreciate that they are in it for real impact and not just high numbers in the 'rankings'.

 

[Alison H]

AFAIK, almost no royal children are being sent off to boarding school like their parent(s) were a generation or two ago. I tend to believe it's because their parent didn't care for the experience.

There's been a lot of talk about this in the press - not particularly about the royals, but in general. It used to be the norm that upper class children, especially boys, were sent to boarding school. That was where they would meet "suitable" people, and make connections. It wasn't about their relationship with their parents: it was just the default thing to do at that level of society.

Edward and Sophie's children are half a generation behind their cousins. Times have changed.

 

[Bubbly]

Based on my perception of the workload of European royals, I have the impression that William's numbers are more average than Charles' numbers. Also, William has kids at home, a foundation and a duchy, maybe he also has to read state documents to prepare for this future role or something like that. IMO he's not comparable to most of the other royals. If we also take into account the media interest during William's youth, I think it's simply different compared to most of the other royals, and I completely understand, why they would want to raise their kids like they do. In this regard, raising the heirs would also be work, and we will see in the next decades, if the kids will be known for their work or for articles in gossip magazines.

William and Kate always seem to me like they have a plan, and like the things they do are based on a conscious decision. As I said, I think William's numbers are average, and maybe things would have been even more different without Covid and without the illness. Now it's just a few years until the kids are grown ups, and William will have other responsibilities at some point.

 

[Ghost]

Also, they do not feed the press. I have this impression that the previous generation has the habit of feeding the press as in their youth that was the way to keep one visible (“I have to be seen to be believed”). William and Catherine are going to be the monarch and consort to a digital generation, in that respect they are very much visible. They seem to have completely broken a relationship with the legacy press.

Separately, I want to mention a thing: last week or so, William has visited a company that was a finalist in earthshot prize. They produce a filter that takes out most of the microplastics from the evacution of the washing machine. I’ve looked up that product and it’s now on the way to be shipped: 250 euros, produced by bosch. That in itself is his (William’s) job and work. Not to mention the shoes for my daughter’s prom ball - Gianvito Rossi.