What does King Constantine do?

[Benn]

I read something a while ago that had me thinking.
In it they talked about the greek royal family and some kind of official engagement. or reception, I don't remember very well.
Constantine and his wife never renounce their titles so technically they are still King and Queen but also ex-King and ex-Queen, and his son might still be the crown prince untill the day he dies. After that, is going to be like the other former ruling houses.
My question is, why are they still doing that?, I personally find it ridiculous specially when they are not representing anything.
Also why is pavlos' wife taking part in that and using the title princess.
Every time she is in the NY she demands to be treated as HRH and as princess.
I ask this beacuse to be doing and to be demanding these kinds of things they need somethig to back it up with, and in greece this things are not permitted anymore.

 

[samitude]

Calling the royal family by their titles is just the respectful thing to do. If you are a doctor you want to be called Dr. Jones, or whatever your last name is. They are royal through and through. Queen Anne-Marie is the grandaughter to the previous king of Sweden and the sister to the present queen of Denmark. King Constantine definitely has royal blood running all through his veins, as well.

I don't expect them to lose their popularity anytime soon. As long as their's still contact with their spanish,danish and british cousins they will still be in the press.

About the official engagements. If someone were to ask you to give a speech, cut a ribbon or hand out a trophy wouldn't you agree to do it? It's not like they go out and demand to give speeches, cut ribbons, unveil paintings and award trophies. The foundations, schools and clubs ask them to come do it and the king and queen are willing to do the deed with a cheerful heart.

 

[Jacqueline]

I agree with Sylvia.

Although, I agree that the people of Greece have a right to choose their own form of goverment. The fact is that the members of the GRF are who they are. Their titles are their birthrights. Is Queen Anne-Marie supposed to have a press conference and say to the world, "Oh please just call me Anne-Marie or Annie?" That would be insanely ridiculous. It is a matter of respect and dignity.

Regardless of what may happen in the years to come and whether or not in the future members of the GRF use their titles (or happen to be addressed as such), their bloodline will still remain as it is. Royalty is invested within a person and not within a goverment. It can exist even though the respective country of a royal house/family is now a republic, etc. An individual does not cease to be royal simply because there have been referendums and the monarchy has been abolished. They may no longer be reigning (and even in exile) and may no longer have official duties, but there ancestry is as it is as Syliva pointed out so very well.

I also agree with Sylvia that is very obvious that members of the GRF do not go around begging to be in the spotlight and to speak at certain events or become members of various charities. They are sought out on many occassions and they graciously accept which makes it clear that in many circles there presence is in demand and they are highly respected.

 

[Benn]

I am not talking about being called to do those things, that is fine, you don't have to be royal to host something or give a speech or cut a ribbon, I am talking about doing or performing ROYAL duties officially like other reigning houses still do.
I don't agree with that.
They are going to be called TRH , king and queen until they die, like I said they never renouced that right so they still are, and yes they are very close to other royals so that is going to keep them in the press, I know that.
Generations to come are still probably going to marry withing other royalty etc, etc, like the other mediatized(?) houses do, and are going to be called HRH.
That is fine, What I was trying to say is that they shouldn't do those kinds of engagements that no longer belong to them.
The other stuff is Ok, who cares.
I didn't mentioned anything about Anne-Marie I know she is royal and i am familiar with her bakground, I was talking about her daughter in law which I know for a fact that demands those things when she is in The USA.
The real royals don't do that, they don't need to, regardless of their situation.
"Royalty is invested within a person and not within a goverment"?
Thats what royals do represent a country.

 

[Jacqueline]

What official engagement was the article referring to? Where was it? I am sure that it wasn't in Greece. Perhaps you should discuss that particular aspect of this discussion when you are certain. I would like to see the article. Do you remember where you read it?

I am quite aware of what royals do Benn. I majored in political science and I am very familiar with all forms of government. I have been a royal watcher for a long time now and I did not become a member of LTR to have someone insult my intelligence and treat me as though I were ignorant simply because I view or understand things differently.

Yes, royals do represent a country-that of their birth and in cases of marriage their new home or "adopted" country as they say. However, a country and its name is not a government. Government is much more complicated than that, unfortunately.

As for Marie Chantal, I have no idea of her demanding that she be called a princess and what not when she is in New York. I have heard that MC is not as down to earth as her other sisters, but if you have any proof or instances that you can recall then I would love to hear them. I have, however, heard from several sources that her credit cards say Marie-Chantal of Greece and that she doesn't use her family surname on them.

 

[Benn]

They where greeting some governmet officials in formal attire, as members fo the greek house.
It wasn't in greece, I think it was london.
Maybe I wasn't clear from the beginninig, by engaments I meant things that Heads of State do.
I am not here to insult anyone, that wasn't my intention, although I felt my intelligence was insulted as well.
I am also an educated and well read person.
I respect other people's opinions, maybe my writing was a little harsed the last time, it's not the same as when one does this things verbally.
I felt the replies I got where harshed as well as insulting to me.
The comments about M-Chantall I made them because I have met her, and she does indeed have an attitude.

I joined the website just to participate, I like other cultures and history.
People should be aloud to have their point of view.

 

[Jacqueline]

Of course,you are allowed to have a point of view. If you didn't then none of us would be having this discussion. Sylvia and I certainly aren't trying to silence anyone. We are simply expressing our point of view as well.

Your point is taken and yes I personally found each of your replies to be somewhat harsh and very condescending. However, you have stated that this wasn't your intention, so it's all in the past.

I have only met MC once and she seemed fine, however, unlike her sister Alexandra she didn't go out of her way to say hello to anyone. She just gave a kind of half-smile (Is that a word? ). I guess it could be described as the kind of smile that you give to someone that you don't know or that you don't really care for.

 

[samitude]

Benn, I wasn't intentionally trying to insult you. I was attempting to answer your question. I see that what I actually answered wasn't the question that you asked.

About Marie-Chantal, I really do not know. I have never met her and I don't know if she's demanding or not. She doesn't strike me as being the demanding type. Actually, she strikes me as being rather shy. That is my opinion by seeing her photos, videos, etc. She seems like a kind person though.

I see now that you weren't referring to cutting ribbons, giving speeches, etc., when you talked of the king and queen doing official duties. That confused me because I have never heard of them doing what you spoke of. Maybe the people that ran the event just asked them too and they were kind to accept. I really don't know.

Feel free to join in discussions more often!

 

[Teresa]

I was wondering if Marie Chantal mother in law is a Danish princess, sister of the Danish queen doesn't Marie Chantal become princess of Denmark by marriage? Being that a "totally valid" title as Denmark is a monarchy?

 

[Jacqueline]

That is a very good question Teresa. One that I have to admit has never crossed my mind. I know that Prince Nikolaos is referred to as a Prince of Greece and Denmark, so I do wonder as well now that you have asked the question if Pavlos also carries the title of Prince of Denmark even though he is the Crown Prince? If so, I would guess that there would be a possibility that Marie-Chantal would possibly be able to carry that title as well through her marriage?

Can anyone answer this question definitely?

Sylvia, I agree that MC may be shy. I have heard people refer to her as a "harpie," however, she really appears to be quite pleasant, which is why I referred to her smile as being the kind that you may not only give to someone that you do not particularly care for, but how she may react to people that she doesn't know. MC may be the kind of person who is very uncomfortable around people that she doesn't know and she may put up a wall if she feels nervous or uncomfortable. Sometimes, that is easier than having to make conversations or introductions. I really don't see her as being a tyrant. I think that it is possible that she may have an attitude at times, but I think that many people do at different times for various reasons. I guess that I find it hard to see her as someone who is constantly disagreable and a bit annoying. But, as I said earlier, I only met her for a brief moment in passing once and I really don't know her.

 

[Benn]

I think I read somewhere that Anne-Marie had renounce her royal rights in the Danish family when she got married, like other princesses do when they marry.
I am not sure though.
Maybe they where taken into that royal household after they left Greece.
You'll have to see if they are in the line of succesion.
I have met them both too, briefly, in those uptight kind of gaderings.
She always shows indiffence, most people there are in her same situation.
I don't mean to say that she is a tyrant or rude or anything, but the attitude she projects is unnecessary that's all.

 

[samitude]

I believe that Anne-Marie did have to renounce her rights to the Danish throne when she married into another house. Yes, her children do have the titles of Greece and Denmark, but I believe that's because a member of the Danish royal family became Greece's first king. I don't think it's because the titles carried through upon Anne-Marie's marriage. It might be different if Greece had a queen and the queen married a prince from another house. The titles from the prince might carry over. I don't really know about that though.

Sophie over at the Miller Sisters Message Board answered the question about Marie-Chantal and her demanding to be called your highness, etc. According to her Marie-Chantal is very nice and not snobby at all. Here's the link to her message. Link: About Princess Marie-Chantal

 

[Jacqueline]

Thank you Sylvia.

I remember that one of Greece's first Kings was of Danish descent and that this was why the children hold Danish titles as well. I see this reference made quite often when there are things written about them in great detail. So, I would guess that those titles are still of some importance since the children of Anne-Marie and Constantine have an aunt who is the reigning monarch of Denmark and their mother was born a Danish princess.

Thank you also for the link to MSMB. I am glad that someone answered the question about MC. This is really how I would see MC in a more informal and less pretentious setting.

 

[Olga~Grace]

Jacqueline-Just wanted to clarify: Did Alexandra seem to be the more outgoing of the two? Friendlier/nicer? Judging by pictures (not a precise way, I know), Alex appears to be more down to earth, normal, and friendlier. Is this correct? I also think that MC looks as though she could be a warm person, but not entirely comfortable in some circumstances. The Carolyn Besette Kennedy look.

 

[Princess_Elizaveta]

Maybe it is just (for lack of a better word) "shyness"....with the media. I always thought that Alexandria's smile was a bit forced in photographs.....MC seems like a pleasant person.

 

[CorinnaAloysius]

Why in the world are you surprised that people think he looks dim and whipped? Hello, it certainly looks that way. If they were still reigning I don't think she would have ever been excepted by Constantinos for marriage. Don't get me started on the reasons why not......

He can't support his wife so don't even try to tell me he/they don't live off of her money. That is gonna weigh on his Greek male pride (he thinks of himself as a true Greek). She takes him to fashion shows, and he looked like he would rather be anywhere else.

Things aren't looking good for him. You can rightfully argue that people just don't know him. But you must understand people will NEVER "know" him...chances of the majority of the average Greek men or women meeting Pav and getting to know him are slim. They rely on the appearance that he puts forward to make their decision of his worthiness for THEIR crown. Let's be realistic you may know him to be brilliant, kind, and head of his household -- but the average Greek doesn't know him like that. What I see, what people I hear of who are Greeks living in Greece, is a man who for all outward appearances is whipped, dim, a kept man, and allowing his wife to run the show (King Pavlos and Queen Fredericka ring a bell to anyone else). It is not those who, like yourself, claim to know Pavlos well who will make the decision of a restoration and who the King/heir will be -- it is the ordinary Greek who sees the impression he gives the world. Pretend you don't know and like him and look at the impression he gives......do you think an ordinary Greek man can relate to or admire him?

They need someone to who can mediate the left and the right -- as well as, stand up to them. I don't think Pavlos is disinterested, either. This we agree on. Nik is more interested and he is stronger. That to me makes all the difference in the world.

I love the Greek Royal family, it is in my genes, I love Pavlos to bits but I think his marriage to MC ruined his chances (her family needs to take lessons from his).

That is my opinion....yours is different. I don't want to go rehash the same thing over and over again......I know you say you know them and I don't know them........I know I see only what I see in the media (but honey I see more than what he is wearing look into his eyes and look at his body language), but I am only seeing what everyone else is seeing. Step back and take away any bias you have by knowing them and look at what impression his is allowing the world to see of him.......if you were Greek would you not be a little disappointed.

I am not with them 24/7 I cannot say with certainty how many nannies they have. I read people who claim to "know" them say they have 4 nannies. That is one for each child -- one nanny for the day and one for the night (nannies need a break too). Not to say they have 4 nannies with them all the time. The employee for 4 nannies in shifts. Makes perfect sense to me.

I once read a wit said, "If one is to be King of Greece one must keep his bags packed." It has always been an unstable throne, and the realistic chances of a restoration are pretty much nil. I am not an absolute monarchist I don't think every country needs a monarch.

They appear on Greek TV and she speaks of poltics (take a hard lesson learned by Q. Frederika and don't dabble in those waters), she is thought of as "glamourous", she is liked because of her fashion sense, and spoke two lines of Greek after 7 years with (2 dating 5 married) the heir to the deposed Greek throne.

Don't be offended I am not overly impressed by MC. Sure I don't know her, but we would have less to talk about than Snoopy and Shaggy. I am realistic and I have lived a very hard life. To *me* spending 25,000 on a shawl while children starve and people sleep in the streets is excess to the extreme. I live in the real world. But, I can't get enough Miller gossip.

(greekforumsite)

 

[CorinnaAloysius]

Anna-Maria was 6 months pregnant when they fled into exile. She had a miscarriage. She has had many miscarriages. I have read that before her two youngest children were born she would cry when she saw young children no doubt a reminder of the children she had lost. She spent months bed ridden with the last two. With out a doubt a terrible experience for her.

All these rumors that King Constantinos has a natural child by Charlotte Ford are just that -- rumors. I have been reading the biography of Cristina Onassis for some time and it speaks of Stavros Niarchos (the man rumors say Constantinos arranged to marry Charlotte for the sake of the child. And he was Cristina's step father and also married to one of her aunts, both of whom is said to have killed) and his relationship to Charlotte and HIS daughter. Stavros was an evil man if the child had not been his he wouldn't have bothered at all. The only reason he bothered to marry her according to my book is: " The circumstances of Eugenie's death were murky, and a great deal of money and influence was used that rendered them murkier. She had apparenlty entered a room when her husband was on the phone to America making plans with his former wife, automoblie heiress Charlotte Ford, to bring their daughter to the island for a visit. Charlotte was to stay ten days and their daughter was to remain for a month. In 1965, Niarchos had divorced Eugenie and married to Ford, whom he had made pregnant, when a shotgun had been held to his head not only by her father, Henry Ford II, but by Ford's friend President Lyndon Johnson, a Texan who knew about shotguns. Within weeks of his marriage to Ford in Mexico, Niarchos rejoined Eugenie, and, after he was divorced by Ford in 1967m resumed his earlier marriage, having never been legally divorced from Eugenie in the eyes of the Greek church." Niarchos wouldn't have done it even if he was the most passionate monarchist on earth and Constantinos couldn't afford to buy Niarchos into it. Unless there is another Ford heiress whom Constantinos is alleged to have a child by this one is untrue. Just thought I'd throw that in -- I love biographies and this one is Juicy with a capital J. Not that that is in anyway related to the thread I just remember it being talked about a while back and wanted to throw in what I have read.

It is not so much that they remember specifically being in Greece rather they have been taught about Greece and taught that they are Greek. If they aren't Greek given the number of years the family has been there then there are no Americans. They speak Greek and grew up in the Orthodox Church. They went to Greek schools and were raised to be Greek. It has been an ongoing battle since they left Greece, as you can tell if you read the whole report issued by the ECHR. They have always been involved in Greece and getting there property back, ect..

Why do I think Nik would be better? Trust me I am not the only one. You should hear what the Greeks who live in Greece say about Pavlos being whipped by MC. Greece is a male dominated society it doesn't go over well to have the CP LOOKING whipped or living off his wealthy flambouyant wife. Nik is interested in politics he is well liked in Greece, especially by the women. He just comes accross as a better candidate. Do you honestly think if Greece said they were going to restore the monarchy but that they wanted Nik instead of Pavlos that Constantinos would hesitate for more than 10 seconds before telling Pavlos it was for the good of the monarchy? Pavlos comes accross as a little dense if you can see what I mean.

The royals are, from what I understand from real Greeks living in Greece, well liked it is just the institution of monarchy they don't want.

(greekforumsite)

 

[Benn]

I agree with you, that marriage would never have happend.

 

[angel]

I am greek and I agree completely with you.I like Pavlos,he seems a nice man,but I would prefer Nik to be our king.He has an stronger personallity.Greeks want the man to be the head of the familly,the strongest one,not the woman.
I hope Nik marries a nice greek girl.Then he will make a good ambassador of Greece in the world.

 

[Alexandria]

Originally posted by angel@Sep 18th, 2003 - 3:08 pm
I hope Nik marries a nice greek girl.Then he will make a good ambassador of Greece in the world.

Could this really be a possibility? Could Nikolaos (or any of the royal family )one day represent Greece politically? I know tha tyou were probably referring to Nikolaos as a figurehead representative, but I mean politically. Could a member of the royal family one day perhaps be the Greek Ambassador to ... example, Great Britain, Spain, Denmark, etc. Or maybe even run for political office in Greece, as the exhiled King of Bulgaria is now the head (a prime minister or president?) of Bulgaria.

That would be an interesting twist of events, wouldn't it?

And I agree that I think Nikolaos would make a better royal head for the family than Pavlos. Of course I don't know either of them and my inference of what they are like are merely from pictures and stories I've seen and read, but Nikolaos seems to me to be much more assertive, confident, more in control and certain of what he wants. Pavlos, although a very nice person I'm sure, seems a bit passive, wishy-washy and a bit too led (we say whipped) by Marie-Chantal.

 

[George]

Angel,
I agree, but i heard on another topic area that he is seeing a Tatiana, who is
Not Greek and she is American and his father approves as she has $ the most
important criteria ....

in my opinion, "$" is not the most important criteria but the sincere love of
Greece, the Greek Orthodox Faith and the people.

After all, money does not mean the marriage is "good" or that she is "appropriate". I wish he to find a good Orthodox Christian girl, Greek,
Russian, Rumanian, just one who is not effected by a $ only jet set life style...

One who is able to unite with the Greek people-someone who they will
really LIKE.

 

[:Jay:]

I've heard that when the GRF were first exiled, they lived in Denmark but had to leave Denmark because of their views of the Danish monarchy.
Firstly, is this true?
Secondlay, if so what were their views which were so controversial??

 

[Fireweaver]

That's a good question, maybe someone who knows more about Greek History/King Constatantine's views can fill us in?

 

[Josefine]

Originally posted by :Jay:@Sep 21st, 2003 - 2:46 am
I've heard that when the GRF were first exiled, they lived in Denmark but had to leave Denmark because of their views of the Danish monarchy.
Firstly, is this true?
Secondlay, if so what were their views which were so controversial??

I have no idee, i would like to know more about it....

 

[Splodger]

When the GRF first went into exile they lived in Rome until 1973. From Rome they moved breifley to Denmark and stayed in the Amalienborg Palace. I do not know of anything about their views on the Danish Monarchy however it would have placed the Danish Government in an International Relations dilema with Greece with the now deposed former Greek Head of State living with the Danish Head of State. Whether this has anything to do with the theory of disputed ideas of Monarchy I dont know, although the two families are both close so it obvioulsy wasnt a long lasting personal issue between the two families.

 

[Sean.~]

It wasn't anything between the two families. Rather, there were fears that the democratic Danes would not take too kindly to Konstantine's counter-coup (I'
m not getting into the reasons of the coup with you, but am stating what has been printed on numerous occassions). That's why Konstantine and Anne-Marie did not attend the wedding of Queen Margarethe and Prince Henrik.

S

 

[Elizajane]

Originally posted by CorinnaAloysius@Sep 16th, 2003 - 10:59 pm
Anna-Maria was 6 months pregnant when they fled into exile...

Now, don't ask me from what source I read this particular article about Ex-King Constantine and his wife, Ex-Queen Anne-Marie, because I can't remember ~ but I do remember "gasping for air" when I read it. ( .. and it all may be a rumor anyway but it was definitely written down somewhere .. ) I have always thought that the "Ex-Royalty of Greece" were morally above reproach and felt that CP Pavlos was pretty lucky in finding Marie-Chantal (and her father's money). When they became engaged, I remember that Ex-King Tino stating (paraphrasing), "We were wondering what took you two so long to annouce your engagement!!". Obviously both families were overjoyed about the upcoming nuptials.

Then, later in the article, it mentioned that it's no secret that Constantine has had a "roving eye for the ladies" as does his son!! That's when I "gasped for air". Pavlos having a "roving eye for other women" ??? How could that be? I still haven't reconciled myself to that fact and I'm still wondering if it is all a rumor. It seems to be almost impossible for him to have a "roving eye", being married to Marie-Chantal. I doubt she would put up with this at all! As far as being "whipped by MC", maybe it's like " .. happy wife ~ happy life ..".

Later on, still, in the article, it did mention that Anne-Marie, at some point in the marriage, temporarily moved back to Denmark for a short while, alledgedly because of the extra-marital affairs of her husband. It was very "hush - hush". Could this be this be the reason for her "crying" (about her marriage) or "crying" when she saw little children, remembering her miscarriages?

Truly, I was shocked, reading this article. Is it all a rumor??

 

[Sean.~]

I've written about this here before. Particularly about K's affairs, Pavlos' image, and Nikaloas and Anne-Marie being more liked in Greece etc. Although I can not prove it, I know people who are/were close to the family (no they are not servants) and the rumours are, for the most part, accurate. You know the old saying: no smoke without fire. Look up my old posts in this forum if you want to learn more. I can also PM you more stuff when I have more time, as you can not post anything remotely controversial here about K et al. without being attacked by the Konstantine loyalists and vested interests under the old regime.

S

 

[Elizajane]

Of course, Sean, I would like to read "your version" in your old posts on this subject, however, I don't know "how" to look them up. (I'm still pretty new around here at LTR and I'm still "learning the ropes".) You talk about "Constantine's loyalists" ~ and, I'm sure there are many, but that doesn't mean one can't ask questions to learn more about something to determine IF it is rumor or IF it is not. It's all about "truth".

I also don't know what the term, "PM" means, however, I think it's about sending me information by "private email" and I'm acceptable to that idea. Thank you for offering your opinions to my post, and as I have stated before, I am truly open to other ideas and/or constructive criticism.

I cannot speak for others in this forum who disagree with you, but I can tell you that instead of being termed "controversial" or "being attacked", maybe we should call it what it is ~ "a debate" ~ and, in a debate, the truth usually will come forth.

Now, let me say to everyone ~ May the year of 2004 bring you much happiness and joy along with prosperity. Happy New Year to all!

Elizajane

 

[Sean.~]

No, I said the topic is controversial. And there is a difference between debate and personal attack. I'm aware as to the difference between the two, thanks.

Anyway, the topic (which *is* controversial) has been discussed and *debated* here several times before. There is a search mechanism attached to the forum, so you can type in some key words and it should bring something up. IIRC, one of the threads was titled 'Constantine' s Affairs', while another was titled Pictures of the Greek Royal Family. There was another thread too, but I can not remember the name at this juncture.

There was also a thread on Queen Frederika that may have some information and one on Marie Chantal's last name (just type in those words in the search box and something should come up).

And it isn't only "my version". Others have the same version, most notably the individual (s) you previously quoted. I can tell you from my well placed sources that the rumours are true. You, however, should read up on the former Greek RF, talk to those in their social cricle, and talk to the ex-pat community and then come to your own conclusions.

Regards & Happy New Year to you too.