Titles, Surname and Nationality of the Greek Royal Family, Part 2, 2024 -

[blooms_rulers]

Everything depends on the law of each country.

In Greece we have Jus sanguinis, (Right of blood) it means that children of Greek citizens are by right Greeks also. Wherever they are born.
On the other side Jus soli does not apply. It means that children of foreigners, born in Greece don't have the right to become automatically Greeks.
Now for the Grrek Royal family. Late King's 5 children (2 born in Greece and 3 abroad) are entitled to the Greek citizenship, because of their father. The issue is that around 1990 (not sure of the exact date) the then Greek government deprived the whole family from their Greek citizenship (it is a separate thread for this) They regained it just 2 months ago.
As for the Danish side, no idea if Queen Anne-Marie born Danish citizen has transmitted her citizenship to her 5 kids, because I don’t know what the Danish law prevails. Our Danish friends could help maybe.

Anne-Marie surrendered her Danish nationality upon her marriage. I expect Greeks in 1964 wouldn't have accepted their queen retaining foreign nationality.

 

[Somebody]

Everything depends on the law of each country.

In Greece we have Jus sanguinis, (Right of blood) it means that children of Greek citizens are by right Greeks also. Wherever they are born.
On the other side Jus soli does not apply. It means that children of foreigners, born in Greece don't have the right to become automatically Greeks.
Now for the Grrek Royal family. Late King's 5 children (2 born in Greece and 3 abroad) are entitled to the Greek citizenship, because of their father. The issue is that around 1990 (not sure of the exact date) the then Greek government deprived the whole family from their Greek citizenship (it is a separate thread for this) They regained it just 2 months ago.
As for the Danish side, no idea if Queen Anne-Marie born Danish citizen has transmitted her citizenship to her 5 kids, because I don’t know what the Danish law prevails. Our Danish friends could help maybe.

So, for the children that weren't born in Greece, the laws in Italy (Nikolaos) and the UK (Theodora and Philippos) are relevant. Both countries practice jus sanguinis, so given that each of them had Greek citizenship at birth, they did not receive Italian or UK citizenship (as they weren't stateless otherwise at that point). Theodora and Philippos were able to apply for British citizenship at some point because they lived in the UK for the first 10 years of their lives.

 

[Mbruno]

So, for the children that weren't born in Greece, the laws in Italy (Nikolaos) and the UK (Theodora and Philippos) are relevant. Both countries practice jus sanguinis, so given that each of them had Greek citizenship at birth, they did not receive Italian or UK citizenship (as they weren't stateless otherwise at that point). Theodora and Philippos were able to apply for British citizenship at some point because they lived in the UK for the first 10 years of their lives.

The UK had unrestricted Jus soli before 1983. Since Theodora and Philippos were both born, however, in or after 1983, then restricted Jus soli applies to them. If their parents were settled immigrants in the UK when Theodora and Philippos were born, then they would acquire British citizenship at birth, even if neither of their parents had British citizenship. A "settled immigrant" in British nationality law is any non-British citizen who has indefinite leave to remain in the UK, or does not require such leave.

Does anybody know the immigration status of King Constantine and Queen Anne Marie in the UK respectively in 1983 and 1986? The question is relevant because either the King or the Queen had ILR in the UK at that time, then Theodora and Philippos would be British citizens by birth.

Note that, even if Theodora and Philippos were not born as British citizens (which is unclear), they could, as you said, still be registered as British citizens after living continuously in the UK for the first 10 years of their lives, or if either of their parents became a settled immigrant before they turned 18.

 

[Somebody]

Thanks, I was wondering about the 'settlement' option as well. Often, those that are living somewhere on diplomatic passports are excluded from certain rights regarding nationality, so if their parents were in the UK using (Danish?) diplomatic passports, they might not qualify.

 

[Viv]

But Queen Anne-Marie is born Danish citizen. Doesn't she transmit it to her children ?

Anne-Marie became a Greek citizen when marrying King Constantine in 1964. When losing their Greek citizenship ( 1994) they used the “safety net” provided in 1863 by king Christian IX of Denmark, the father of Prince Vilhelm, who became King Georgios of Greece! As the Greek monarchy was a bit unstable at the time, King Christian insisted that Vilhelm’s Greek family and descendants should be styled “ of Greece and Denmark” , so they would not be rendered stateless in case the Greek monarchy was overthrown.
This provision has on more than one occasion enabled members of the Greek RF to get Danish diplomatic passports - however without getting Danish citizenship!

I’m aware that the “••••of Denmark” style has been confusing; I find it a bit confusing too ! The former Greek RF was not a part of the Danish royal House ( the working royals of the institution), however the male members of the Greek family were in the line of succession to the Danish throne until 1953, when the Danish succession law was changed.

Now back to Anne-Marie: I have absolutely no idea whether she holds a Danish diplomatic passport OR if she has regained Danish citizenship! I’m sure the latter is possible in her case, however I doubt she would have done so when her husband was alive. I refer to other posts regarding the citizenships of her children!
The “ .. of Denmark” bit was always a Greek title only! And while the “ Greeks” are family members of the Danish RF, they are not members of the official Danish RF - nor are they listed as such!

 

[Mbruno]

Thanks, I was wondering about the 'settlement' option as well. Often, those that are living somewhere on diplomatic passports are excluded from certain rights regarding nationality, so if their parents were in the UK using (Danish?) diplomatic passports, they might not qualify.

If Constantine and Anne Marie had diplomatic immunity, then their children would not acquire British citizenship at birth, even if unrestricted Jus soli still applied (which, again, was no longer the case after January 1, 1983).

The 10-year route to acquire British citizenship would still be available to Theodora and Philippos though since, as far as I understand, it is independent of the parents' nationality or immigration status. It suffices that the children be born in the UK and that they not be physically absent from the United Kingdom for more than 90 days in each of the first 10 years of their life.

 

[fandesacs2003]

Can someone understand the way the Official site of the GRF presents the royal family ?
Marie Chantal and Nina appeear with their title (Crown Princess and Princess)
But both Tatiana and Chryssi just appear with their names without title.
Also can someone with good eyes read Chryssi's birth date ? Looks like 1981 but not sure. If true she is 44.

 

[Blog Real]

Can someone understand the way the Official site of the GRF presents the royal family ?
Marie Chantal and Nina appeear with their title (Crown Princess and Princess)
But both Tatiana and Chryssi just appear with their names without title.
Also can someone with good eyes read Chryssi's birth date ? Looks like 1981 but not sure. If true she is 44.

Yes I noticed that too. Yes Chryssi was born in 1981.

 

[Prinsara]

Can someone understand the way the Official site of the GRF presents the royal family ?
Marie Chantal and Nina appeear with their title (Crown Princess and Princess)
But both Tatiana and Chryssi just appear with their names without title.

Maybe because both MC and Nina indisputably married Princes, while Tatiana is an ex-spouse and Chrysi married someone who has now officially given up the title in Greece? (Yes that holds true for her sisters-in-law, but Chrysi cannot even claim to have married a Prince.) That's my best guess.

 

[Blog Real]

Maybe because both MC and Nina indisputably married Princes, while Tatiana is an ex-spouse and Chrysi married someone who has now officially given up the title in Greece? (Yes that holds true for her sisters-in-law, but Chrysi cannot even claim to have married a Prince.) That's my best guess.

It is a possibility. But the Greek Royal House should clarify this.

 

[fandesacs2003]

I don't think he had given up his title. His titles are not recognized in Greece but this is not new.
As courtesy still exists.
And if you check the official site, Nicolaos is still styled as Prince.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

Danish Billed Bladet seem to exclusively refer to Nikolaos as "Nikolaos de Grece" even though the GRF's website clearly still refer to him as "Prince Nikolaos" so they're definitely confused about the titles.

 

[Lipe]

I don't know exactly what this wedding object is, the invitation card or the gift given to the guests... but it has the initials and the crown that identify Chrysi as Princess

The Greek Royal Family | Ο Πρίγκιπας Νικόλαος και η Πριγκίπισσα Χρυσή | Facebook

Ο Πρίγκιπας Νικόλαος και η Πριγκίπισσα Χρυσή

www.facebook.com

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I haven't kept up with this thread, but from some previous posts it appears that most believe Queen Margrethe II of Denmark permitted her relatives in the former royal family of Greece to remain Prince(ss) of Denmark even after her own junior-line grandchildren were stripped of that title effective January 1, 2023.

However, has that been established as a fact, or is it merely an assumption at this point? I am not sure that one can rule out the possibility that Queen Margrethe II may have also removed the Danish princely titles from the Greek former royal family without issuing any public announcements. Unlike Prince Joachim's children, the Greek cousins almost never used their Danish titles, and the average Danish citizen may not even have been aware of them.

Is there evidence that members of the Greek ex-royal family have claimed or utilized the title or name "of Denmark" since January 1, 2023?

For what it is worth, the English version of the family's official website does not appear to reference Danish titles. For example, the following is quoted from its FAQ:

Here is the correct form of address: Queen Anne-Marie, former Queen of the Hellenes. All other members of the family are similarly styled.
​

FAQ

greekroyalfamily.gr

And the press releases of family weddings and funerals naturally do not use it either:

The funeral service of Prince Michael of Greece was held on Thursday, August 1st, 2024, at the Church of Saint Theodores in the First Cemetery of Athens.

The Greek Orthodox wedding ceremony of HRH Princess Theodora and Mr. Matthew Kumar will take place on Saturday, September 28th 2024 at 5:30 pm at the Metropolitan Cathedral of the Annunciation in Athens.

The Greek Orthodox wedding ceremony of HRH Prince Nikolaos, now known as Nikolaos De Grèce, and Ms. Chrysi Vardinogianni will be held on Friday, February 7th, 2025, at 6:00 pm at the Holy Church of Saint Nicholas Ragavas in Athens in a private ceremony amongst close family and friends.

On Friday, February 7, 2025, at 18:00, the Greek Orthodox wedding of Nikolaos De Grèce and Chrysi Vardinogianni took place at the Holy Church of St. Nicholas Rangavas in Athens.​

Danish Billed Bladet seem to exclusively refer to Nikolaos as "Nikolaos de Grece" even though the GRF's website clearly still refer to him as "Prince Nikolaos" so they're definitely confused about the titles.

The most recent press release on the family's website refers to him as Nikolaos De Grèce.

Announcement of the Greek Orthodox wedding of Nikolaos de Grèce and Chrysi Vardinogianni

www.greekroyalfamily.gr

Ανακοίνωση τέλεσης του θρησκευτικού γάμου του Νικόλαου Ντε Γκρες με την Χρυσή Βαρδινογιάννη

www.greekroyalfamily.gr

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Pavlos De Grèce and his siblings – How Mani “Crowned” him and the battle over the titles "Prince" and "Your Highness" - ProtoThema English

A verbal misstep by the mayor of Eastern Mani has escalated into a high-profile political controversy, just as the children and grandchildren of the former King Constantine prepare to don military uniforms and serve their country

en.protothema.gr

The De Grèce family has a unique ability to spark heated public debate [...] this time, the storm surrounding the former royal family unfolded in three distinct parts.

“A Threat to Power”

Law professor Panagiotis Lazaratos has filed an appeal with Greece’s highest administrative court, the Council of State, seeking to annul the surname ” De Grèce” as well as the family’s Greek citizenship. Lazaratos argues that using “de Greece” is unconstitutional, as it creates an unfair distinction between them and other Greek citizens.

[…]

The professor contends that their allegedly unlawful citizenship grants them voting rights, allowing them to influence election outcomes and ultimately distort the principle of popular sovereignty.

[…]

The Battle Over Titles

The second dimension of the controversy revolves around how Pavlos was addressed during the celebrations [of the 1821 revolution]. Not only did Mayor Andreakos use “prince,” but Metropolitan Chrysostomos III and other local officials also referred to him as “Your Highness.” This triggered a political uproar, with critics accusing the mayor of reviving monarchical rhetoric.

Some saw this as mere political theater, while others perceived it as a sign that [the city of] Mani had symbolically “crowned” Pavlos, transforming itself into a quasi-independent kingdom.

[…]

During his speech, Mayor Andreakos defended his choice of words, stating:
“I believe that titles never die and follow a person throughout their life. And with that, I welcome Prince Pavlos.”

His remarks sparked immediate backlash. Opposition parties, including PASOK, criticized the government for not preventing the use of royal titles, arguing that Pavlos had willingly accepted the designation rather than rejecting it in accordance with the law governing his citizenship.

[…]


“I Am Just a Citizen”

Amid the escalating controversy, Pavlos De Grèce finally addressed the matter. While he did not rebuke those who called him “prince,” he made a brief statement to clarify his stance:

“My name is Pavlos De Grèce. I don’t want to say anything more. How someone chooses to address me is their own business. My name is clear—I am just a citizen.”

[…]
​

Surely the Mayor, Metropolitan and other officials would have consulted Pavlos in advance as to how he wanted to be addressed? And why Prince instead of Crown Prince, or is that merely a translation issue?

 

[Halise]

Does the Greek state impose fines or imprisonment like Austria?

 

[stef]

First of all, there's no controversy.

The lawyer is only seeking popularity. He's an expert in that. His claim is ridiculous. Why? The surname De Gres was registered in the Athens civil registry in 2004 and accepted by the then-competent minister. It was registered by Michel of Greece, who acquired him Greek nationality. The lawyer claims it's new, created by Pavlos and his family.
Furthermore, another fact that shows that the lawyer is only looking for popularity, he claims that it is m" De Grece" and that de Grece is not a valid surname because it leads to confusion with "of greece", BUT THIS IS THE MOST STUPID THING, the surname De Grece, is a translate into French, the surname is De Gres in Greek, not De Grece as the lawyer claims, who by the way, is a university professor
This shows that the lawyer is seeking popularity, because when you file a claim, it has to be well-founded. You can't claim that this surname was created now, when it's been registered in a Greek registry for 21 years and that it is The Grece, when it is in greek, De Gres.

Second, the Mayor of Mani expressed himself correctly. Royal titles are personal, as stated in international law. He was free to call Pavlos "Prince," because he believes titles are carried until death. It hurt to the politicians presents, because the audience cheered the Mayor and Prince. It wasn't the mayor, it was the audience's cheer. Everyone in Greece knows that in Mani, the people appreciated the king. At his funeral, 2023, the historical organizations of Mani sang the Greek anthem as the coffin was being placed in the hearse. Surprise, to go to Mani and have them shout "Long live the king"? this is not surprise, it is Mani and in Mani the King exist. It's like going to the headquarters of the Greek Communist Party and being surprised because they sing, the socialist international

There are many political scandals in Greece, and press and politicians are eager to create controversy so that public opinion looks the other way and doesn't focus on their scandals.

 

[Lipe]

From everything I've read, I see that left-wing and right-wing political parties are afraid that a member of the family, ' might create a political party, hence the , that every time Pavlos or Nikolaos attend an event and are greeted with joy, they quickly create a controversy...

I agree with Stef, the lawyer's claims are erroneous and ridiculous. The surname "De Gres" has been registered in Athens since 2004, and it's not De Grece as the lawyer claims, it's De Gres. You can't sue a surname for its translation into another language...

But these public applauses in Mani for the Prince did not like to the politicians. This week, I've seen on Facebook,in some Greek press asking: How much electoral support would a political party led by a member of the royal family have? the media outlets agree that it would be guaranteed representation in parliament. There are those who believe it would have a good chance, given the credibility crisis of current Greek politicians, including the Prime Minister, whose popularity is also plummeting...

I think that this is the problem, the credibility crisis of current Greek politicians. The politicians see to pavlos and Nikolaos like possible rivals....

 

[Blog Real]

The Greek Royal Family cannot use titles in Greece, I think it is a similar situation to what happens in Austria with the former Imperial Family.

 

[duke of poliganc]

It’s quite puzzling why so much criticism is shown to the former royal family just for merely using their titles, I have seen many ordinary Greeks calling them out and criticizing them for the use of titles, it’s really weird when you compare it to the reaction other Balkan former royal families receive from the public and current governments!

 

[Lipe]

No, Prince Pavlos didn't use the title Prince; it was the mayor of Mani who called him Prince, and the people did the same. He hasn't used the title. People are free to call him Prince; if they believe in the monarchy, they can call him whatever they want; no one can stop them.
He has not identified himself in any Greek public document as Prince.

Freedom of expression allows the Greek people to call him Prince; if they want to call him Prince, they can. No Greek law prevents that.

At the International Olympic Committee meeting in Olympia.The IOC is an international organization that allows and recognizes royalty titles, so Constantine was, HM King Constantine, at this meeting were invited Queen Anna Maria and Prince Pavlos, Pavlos, having the right to identify himself as Prince, he did not do it and identified himself as, Pavlos de Gres, at this event, he could have identified himself as Prince, he did not do it to avoid controversy with the Greek press

 

[Tatiana Maria]

We are going off-topic, but I believe Queen Sofia uses only the surname "de Grecia" without any reference to Denmark, see for example the Royal Decree 470/2014:]

Doña Sofía de Grecia, madre del Rey Don Felipe VI, continuará vitaliciamente en el uso con carácter honorífico del título de Reina, con tratamiento de Majestad y honores análogos a los establecidos para la Princesa o el Príncipe de Asturias consortes en dicho Real Decreto.

Sofia's first surname is "de Grecia" but legally it is not clear what her second surname is, and the Royal Family's website does not even use it.

In 2018, Irene received Spanish nationality, and in the Official State Gazette she appears as "Her Royal Highness Doña Irene de Grecia de Hannover"... She follows the rule of having two surnames, that of her father and that of her mother, and although she receives the title of Royal Highness, the title of Princess is not included, because legally in Spain only Leonor can use it.

BOE-A-2018-4570 Real Decreto 164/2018, de 16 de marzo, por el que se concede la nacionalidad española por carta de naturaleza a Su Alteza Real doña Irene de Grecia de Hannover.

www.boe.es

Thank you, Mbruno and lula.

To add to your informative answers, there is no record in the Boletín del Estado (the official record of Spanish legislation) of anyone with the "de Grecia" surname using "Dinamarca" (Denmark) as their second surname.

For what it is worth, a well-read Spanish member of another forum says that Sofía was registered on marriage in 1962 with Borbón as her second legal surname, even though that option would not be allowed today.

The Greek title is Prince of Greece and Denmark for those who are dynasts to the now-defunct Greek throne.

The Greek title was simply Vasilopais (or, more informally, Prince/Princess) of Greece. During and after the monarchy, the family has treated the Danish title as a subsidiary title which was not in everyday usage. It is comparable to the current Princes to Denmark being also Counts of Monpezat, but rarely if ever using the Monpezat title.

See for illustration the birth certificate of Prince Philippos in 1921, in which his father is entered as "Α.Β.Υ. ο Βασηλοπαισ τησ Ελλαδοσ Ανδρεασ" (H.R.H. the Vasilopais of Greece Andreas).

Personally, I wish that Anglophone royal watchers and websites would cease the frequent references to "of Greece and Denmark", as it is not reflective of the normal (non-)usage of the titles.

And in the case of Queen Anna Maria, her Danish passport says, Her Majesty Queen Anna Maria, I understand that. The Venizelos law of 1994 says that they do not get their Greek passport back, they receive a new one dated 1974. Previously their nationality was extinguished, so they are foreigners who accepted a passport, it is said by this law 1994. For Teodora, Filippos and the grandchildren, the passport date is not 1974, which was not born, it is 2024, they are Greek since 2024. I understand that Queen Anna Maria and King Constantine could not accept it, Constantine was born in Greece, did military service, had a military career in Greece, won an Olympic medal... Obviously HE WAS GREEK SINCE JUNE 2, 1940, that is logical, and Anna Maria too, she renounced her Danish citizenship, and acquired Greek citizenship in 1964, through marriage, she is not going to sign a document that says that she was not Queen.

What is the date of nationality according to the 1994 law that they receive? I do not know the exact date of 1974 of their passport, but if it is December 8, 1974, referendum, I believe that if it is so, December 8, 1974, I WOULD NOT ACCEPT THAT EITHER, EVER, TO CARRY A PASSPORT WITH THE DATE OF THE REFERENDUM.

The reason why Constantine did not accept the law was the extinction of his Greek passport, the law of 1994 says it, with the consideration of him as a foreigner who acquires a new passport. By this law, King Constantine would ceased to be a natural Greek by birth. He had repeated in interviews, many times, that he was born in Greece, baptized in Greece, that he was the head of the army... He could not sign a document that said he was Greek since 1974, for that reason, he called the law ridiculous.

May I ask where the two of you have gotten this information? I do not see it in the links which have been posted, but perhaps I overlooked something.

 

[blooms_rulers]

The Greek title was simply Vasilopais (or, more informally, Prince/Princess) of Greece. During and after the monarchy, the family has treated the Danish title as a subsidiary title which was not in everyday usage. It is comparable to the current Princes to Denmark being also Counts of Monpezat, but rarely if ever using the Monpezat title.

See for illustration the birth certificate of Prince Philippos in 1921, in which his father is entered as "Α.Β.Υ. ο Βασηλοπαισ τησ Ελλαδοσ Ανδρεασ" (H.R.H. the Vasilopais of Greece Andreas).

Personally, I wish that Anglophone royal watchers and websites would cease the frequent references to "of Greece and Denmark", as it is not reflective of the normal (non-)usage of the titles.

You ask for evidence of continued usage. Constantine's grave lists him as King of the Hellenes, Prince of Denmark. He died after Margrethe made her change of titles.

So did King Alexander, King George II, Princess Maria, Prince Andrew, Queen Sophia, King Constantine I, Queen Olga, King Pavlos, and Princess/Lady Katherine, that I could find.

The Greek Royal House manages the graves and the tombstones at Tatoi, so they are seemingly in charge of what is being engraved on the graves, and they are listing Prince/ss Til/Af Danmark up to and including King Constantine.

I couldn't find an image of Prince Michael's grave, and Queen Frederica's grave didn't mention Denmark that I could see.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

[...]
So did King Alexander, King George II, Princess Maria, Prince Andrew, Queen Sophia, King Constantine I, Queen Olga, King Pavlos, and Princess/Lady Katherine, that I could find.

The Greek Royal House manages the graves and the tombstones at Tatoi, so they are seemingly in charge of what is being engraved on the graves, and they are listing Prince/ss Til/Af Danmark up to and including King Constantine.

I couldn't find an image of Prince Michael's grave, and Queen Frederica's grave didn't mention Denmark that I could see.

Thank you very much! I appreciate it.

I would like to clarify that my earlier question (which you answered) and my recent comment (which you quoted) are about two different issues.

The quoted post was noting that for the Greek royal family, the Danish title was a subsidiary title (like Count of Monpezat is a subsidiary title for the current Princes of Denmark), which was not used in their day-to-day lives: They were called Vasilopais or Prince/ss of Greece, not Prince/ss of Greece and Denmark.

That is further proven by the gravestones listing the Prince/ss of Denmark title. Even for those who were "only" princes/ses (not kings/queens) of Greece, the Denmark title is listed separately, underneath the Greek title, and in addition to other titles the person may have had.

For example, Ekaterini's gravestone reads:

Ekaterini
Vasilopais tis Ellados
Prinsesse til Danmark
Lady Katherine Brandram​

And Maria's gravestone reads:

Maria
Vasilopais tis Ellados
Prinsesse til Danmark
Megali Thukissa tis Rossias [Grand Duchess of Russia]​

so that there is no such title as "Prince/ss of Greece and Denmark" on the gravestones.




My earlier question, on the other hand, was whether there was evidence of the current members of the family still having Danish titles (before 2023, there was no question that they had the titles, it was simply that they did not use them). You have answered that.

You ask for evidence of continued usage. Constantine's grave lists him as King of the Hellenes, Prince of Denmark. He died after Margrethe made her change of titles.

Again, thank you! I suppose we must assume then that Margrethe II allowed at least the living members of the Greek branch to retain their Danish titles.

ETA:
On second thought, though, I am still not entirely sure. Gravestones often honor the highest titles a person held during their lifetime, so the inclusion on Konstantinos' gravestone could simply mean that he was a Prince to Denmark at some point, couldn't it?

After all, the gravestone also lists him as King of the Hellenes, not Former King of the Hellenes.

 

[blooms_rulers]

ETA:
On second thought, though, I am still not entirely sure. Gravestones often honor the highest titles a person held during their lifetime, so the inclusion on Konstantinos' gravestone could simply mean that he was a Prince to Denmark at some point, couldn't it?

After all, the gravestone also lists him as King of the Hellenes, not Former King of the Hellenes.

Margrethe did not address the Greeks at all in her statement. There's no reason to believe she was referring to the Greeks' Danish title when she specifically only referenced Joachim's children, carefully not even referencing any decision for Frederik's future grandchildren.

But we won't have a definitive answer until Constantinos-Alexios' generation has children and those children are buried at Tatoi, since that would be the first generation born since Margrethe's statement (I'm not expecting children from Philippos and Nina at this point). I suppose you could write to the Greeks' office and see if they respond. They are known for being responsive. And surely while Anne-Marie is alive, they'd have a close source to Margrethe to see what Margrethe actually intended.

ETA, if they were referencing highest titles, Constantine's highest Danish title was Prins TIL Danmark. He lost that title in 1953 when he lost Danish succession rights. Since then, he had been Prins AF Danmark, which is what is on his gravestone.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Margrethe did not address the Greeks at all in her statement. There's no reason to believe she was referring to the Greeks' Danish title when she specifically only referenced Joachim's children,

I fully agree with that. To be clear, I am aware that Queen Margrethe II has not publicly commented on the Greeks' Danish titles, and do not assume she removed them. What I disagree with is the assumption that she definitively did not remove them, because in my opinion, both removal (without a public announcement) and non-removal are plausible scenarios.

It would not be surprising if she allowed the Greeks to keep their Danish titles because it made no difference in the eyes of the Danish public and they never used them anyway. (It wouldn't even wholly surprise me if she simply forgot about the Greeks' Danish titles.)

But it would not be surprising either if she removed the Greeks' Danish titles to be consistent with her downsizing of Danish royal titles in the Danish Royal House.

carefully not even referencing any decision for Frederik's future grandchildren.

I do believe Queen Margrethe II's statement was meant to indirectly apply to Frederik's future grandchildren as well (though the final decision will naturally be made by whoever is King of Denmark when they are alive). Though it is off-topic for this thread, I wrote a post explaining my interpretation here: New Titles for Queen Margrethe's Descendants: 2008 & 2022, 2024

ETA, if they were referencing highest titles, Constantine's highest Danish title was Prins TIL Danmark. He lost that title in 1953 when he lost Danish succession rights. Since then, he had been Prins AF Danmark, which is what is on his gravestone.

I personally agree with you on that, but I wonder if he would see it that way. The fact that both Ekaterini and Maria's gravestones list the title Princess to Denmark, even though they were never in line to the Danish throne and the distinction between "to Denmark" and "of Denmark" was already settled by the times of their deaths, leads me to think the Greeks were not exactly careful about the technicalities of Danish royal titles.

Yesterday, on the profile of a journalist who follows Royal Families, she talked about Prince Nikolaos, and immediately comments appeared, saying that Greece was still a republic, that he was not a Prince, no greek, that he was a De Grece.... I recognize that the majority of the comments were good and congratulated the couple, but these three ugly ones are always the ones that stand out the most. Then I loved the response of a Greek profile, he responded to these three people: "You are on a profile that talks exclusively about royal houses, you always comment on these issues... Has anyone forced you to follow the Greek Royal Family? No, but you are here, why? If I don't like something, I don't follow it.
And he is completely right, they are very stupid, they don't like the Greek Royal Family but they follow it.

If one employs that line of thinking, then the fan who responded to the comments would likewise be "stupid" for spending his time reading and replying to the comments he dislikes, and those monarchists who dislike the majority of Greek citizens who are republicans would likewise be "stupid" for following and commenting on the actions of republican members of the public and politicians. Instead, it would be best if both journalists and members of the public could avoid ad hominem and debate the issues on their merits.

H.R.H. Prince Nikolaos of Greece and Denmark is the name in his danish diplomatic passport

I don't think that's the case. The family always (during and after the monarchy) used "of Greece", not "of Greece and Denmark", as their primary title. See examples here:

Titles, Surname and Nationality of the Greek Royal Family, Part 2, 2024 -

Everything depends on the law of each country. In Greece we have Jus sanguinis, (Right of blood) it means that children of Greek citizens are by right Greeks also. Wherever they are born. On the other side Jus soli does not apply. It means that children of foreigners, born in Greece don't...

www.theroyalforums.com

According to the following article (and I have read the same information elsewhere in the past) the family's Danish diplomatic passports used the surname "de Grecia" (which has existed since 1962 as the legal surname of Nikolaos' aunt Queen Sofía of Spain).

De Grèce: Why the former king’s children chose citizenship over Royalty - The story, background, and the family’s plans - ProtoThema English

Pavlos fulfilled his father’s greatest wish while simultaneously violating it – The “no” from Anna-Maria and the efforts to resolve a 30-year-old issue

en.protothema.gr

 

[Lipe]

Princess Alexia, Princes Pavlos, Nikolaos and Princess Irene did not have Danish diplomatic passports, and I repeat, Prince Nikolaos had a United States passport since 1995, the country where he resided when he became stateless, and where he worked. De Grecia, only King Constantine had it on his passport, and Princess Alexia, as a Spanish passport holder, she resided in Spain and worked in Barcelona. The rest of family was, of Greece.

Prince Nikolaos was a regular guest at US Embassy events in Athens, as a US passport holder.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

The announcement of December 23, 2024 from the family’s private office stated: “The law of 1994 deprived us of our citizenship, rendering us stateless […]”.

However, that is not exactly correct. The members of Konstantinos’ family were never technically deprived of their Greek citizenship and so technically were never stateless.

The law of 1994 suspended the recognition of their citizenship (their municipal registration, their passports, their right to vote, etc.) until they fulfilled the requirements that were mandated in the law.


The law of 1994 did not and could not truly deprive them of their citizenship, because withdrawing their citizenship was forbidden by the Constitution of 1975 (which remains in force until now). Then and now, the Constitution states:

Article 4. […] 3. All persons possessing the qualifications for citizenship as specified by law are Greek citizens. Withdrawal of Greek citizenship shall be permitted only in case of voluntary acquisition of another citizenship or of undertaking service contrary to national interests in a foreign country, under the conditions and procedures more specifically provided by law.​

So long as the family members did not voluntarily acquire foreign citizenship and did not undertake service contrary to Greek national interests, the Constitution simply did not permit the Government to withdraw their citizenship.


This is a translation of what the law of 1994 actually says in regards to the family’s citizenship:

Article 6.

5. Greek citizenship to Constantine Glyxburg and members of his family, after the expiry of the special legal status which governed their citizenship before the change in the form of the constitution, shall be recognized and proved only if the following conditions are cumulatively met:

a) If an express and unconditional declaration of respect for the Constitution, acceptance and recognition of the constitution of the Presidential Parliamentary Republic and of the result of the referendum of 8 December 1974, which determined the form of the constitution in an unalterable manner, is made before the Athens registrar.

(b) If a waiver of all claims of any kind in connection with the past exercise of a political office or the holding of any title is expressly and unconditionally declared before the same registrar.

(c) If an entry has been made in the registers of men or in the municipal or communal public registers of the State with the name, surname, and other legally required identification data.

A decision of the Minister of the Interior establishes that the above conditions have been met. Passports, travel, and other relevant documents issued to such persons shall be automatically cancelled if the above conditions are not met.”

Pavlos and Nikolaos: proceed with the application for Greek citizenship - The three requirements - ProtoThema English

Crucial element is the surname they choose - "I have a surname. Of Greece. Why should I change it?" said Paul recently

en.protothema.gr

So the effect of the 1994 law was that the family’s citizenship was no longer “recognized and proved”, meaning that their citizenship documents (including passports) were canceled and could not be renewed until they complied with the conditions (declaration, waiver, registration). But in principle, the citizenship itself was never lost.

 

[Somebody]

Would there be any practical difference? If it is not recognized by the state you are a citizen of, there seems to be no practical difference between between being a citizen or not because they were treated by the state as if they weren't citizens (until they would comply).

 

[stef]

It is not true:
Article 4 of the Greek Constitution: 3. ....Withdrawal of Greek citizenship shall be permitted only in the case of voluntary acquisition of another citizenship....

This article prohibits statelessness. The Greek State cannot withdraw a Greek passport if the person does not have another passport, which must have been obtained voluntarily.This has no other possible interpretation, it is obvious

In 1994, right-wing political parties refused to participate in the debate of this law, calling the law unconstitutional. They left parliament, as this law demonstrated that the Greek Constitution's control was politicized, not acting according to the text but rather according to the governing political ideologies.

In 1996, King Constantine was attending an event in Denmark when, trying to leave the country, he was unable to leave because his original passport, which he had had since birth. He was born in Greece, and his parents were Greek. It had been revoked.

The European Union prohibits statelessness in member countries and requires that individuals in this situation be issued a passport. Denmark, in compliance with its own regulations and European standards, granted a passport so that Constantine could travel around the world. Otherwise, he would have had to live at Copenhagen Airport.