Titles, Surname and Nationality of the Greek Royal Family, Part 2, 2024 -


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
One government representative was asked which exactly were the 10 members who applied for Greek nationality:
-The 5 children of late King Konstantine and Queen Anne-Marie
-The 5 Children of CP Pavlos.

So definitely none of the spouses.
Neither Alexias children or her husband.

Thats it.
Ps someone talked about Odysseas health condition, empeaching him to attend the Army. Any clue what is about?
 
According to her new WIKIPEDIA website Maria Olympia and her family have now a Greek citizenship granted by Minister of interior, Theodoros Livanios.
This statement is incorrect. I wish it had been so. Greece naturalizes many foreigners with no ties to Greece by granting them citizenship.

The 10 members have fulfilled the requirements established by law 1994. The Minister of the Interior only certifies that they have fulfilled the requirements of the law, as can be read on pages 2 and 3 of the Government Gazette, where he certifies that they have fulfilled the requirements of that law that gives them the right to have that passport.
 
Anaphylaxis
Thank you. I presume he will provide documents and serve mainly at offices.
Furthermore i see difficult for CP Pavlos sons to suddenly land in the Greek Army. For sure they will be bulled.
Did they serve (at least the older) to the UK army ? If yes, in this case they are waived from the Greek one, as both countries are NATO members
 
Thank you. I presume he will provide documents and serve mainly at offices.
Furthermore i see difficult for CP Pavlos sons to suddenly land in the Greek Army. For sure they will be bulled.
Did they serve (at least the older) to the UK army ? If yes, in this case they are waived from the Greek one, as both countries are NATO members
Not that I recall, but I think all the boys did attend Wellington College, which imparts a military education.
 
Wellington College is not a military academy, it is true that on weekends it offered military training, but it is not a military academy. I remember a photo that Marie Chantal shared, that even the clothes they wore did not have any military insignia. To be validated it is necessary to be a military academy and NATO country

But being called to the Greek army is the best thing that can happen to them, it must be a reason for pride and honor for them.

In the Greek army they would maintain the maximum discretion, and believe me that among the military they would be very well appreciated, because they like to see people of economic level in the army, this is like showing that in the army there are no rich or poor, they are all Greek.

The person who thinks that in the Greek army they would be treated badly, you are confused.

Furthermore, If due to his height they do military service in the Evzones, they could be alone for three months, since they could claim that they have other responsibilities.

It would be a nice tribute to their grandfather, and to the royal family.
Believe me in Greece and in the army that gesture would be valued very positively
 
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I never said it's a military academy, I said it imparts a military education, which it does.
 
So if I was born Amanda Smith, the daughter of Bob Smith and Eve Jones and I married Stephen Martin and changed my name to Amanda Martin. If for some reason I migrated to Spain, my legal name in Spain would be Amanda Smith y Jones . Martin could not be part of my name but my child Penelope would be Penelope Martin y Smith or possibly Penelope Smith y Martin. I hope that is correct.
Yes correct
 
I t would-be very higly appreciated if they did Greek army. But i couldn't have a clue if they wanted to. Their father did Sandhurst; prince Nikolaos also, I don't know about prince Philippos. Their father belongs to a generation where the mentality was for Royals to attend military education. I remember Pavlos or Nikolaos said that they were dreaming about attending Greek army...but ofc they were not allowed to..

But what about royals of Pavlos' children generation.. especially for former Ruling RF? No idea.
As apparently no-one of them has attrnded any military academy.
Wait and see.
In any case if they renain Greek citizen but registered as living permanently out of Greece they are not obliged to do so.
 
Do Pavlos' kids speak Greek? That can impact joining the army, not that I think that was in their minds.

It's been fantastic to learn about the title situation and the 1994 law, thanks to all.
 
Thank you. I presume he will provide documents and serve mainly at offices.
Furthermore i see difficult for CP Pavlos sons to suddenly land in the Greek Army. For sure they will be bulled.
Did they serve (at least the older) to the UK army ? If yes, in this case they are waived from the Greek one, as both countries are NATO members

There is no military conscription in the UK and, in any case, Pavlos' 3 eldest sons were going to university in the United States at the time when they could have been conscripted in the UK (if the UK had conscription, which again is not the case).

As far as I understand, Pavlos' sons are dual US/British citizens (is that correct?) and, now, also Greek citizens. The US does not have conscription either, although all 18-year-old males are required to be registered with the Selective Service System in case the draft is ever reinstated. I suppose Pavlos' sons (except his youngest son,, who is still 16 and is going to school in England) must have been registered in accordance with US federal law.

Wellington College is not a military academy, it is true that on weekends it offered military training, but it is not a military academy. I remember a photo that Marie Chantal shared, that even the clothes they wore did not have any military insignia. To be validated it is necessary to be a military academy and NATO country
Many schools in the UK have army cadets, which are similar I guess to Junior ROTC
in the United States, but those are not trained soldiers or officers, nor considered to be formal members of the military. It is more like a club really, whose main goal is to influence school kids to join the military after they finish school.

My understanding of the meaning of "military academy" in the context of this thread is a post-secondary institution that offers actual training to future commissioned officers in the armed forces. In many countries nowadays, including the USA, attending a military academy also enables you to earn the equivalent to a bachelor's degree in a civilian university, in parallel to earning an officer's commission in the armed forces.

As far as I know, none of Pavlos' sons has ever attended a military academy in the sense described above.
 
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Anaphylaxis
Anaphylaxis is a severe allergic response to something, not a "standalone" condition. The prince might be allergic to anything from bees to peanut butter to who-knows-what in a way that could cause an anaphylactic reaction, but the allergy would be the condition he has.
 
It's not necessarily disqualifying (especially since we don’t know what he’s anaphylactic to). He would just be required to carry his Epi-pens with him at all times which he no doubt does anyway.
 
@Mbrunoi might have not been expressed properly my thought. I never talked about military conscription in UK or USA. Just I said that previous royal generation, up to Pavlos age considered as part of their mandatory curriculum to attend a military academy (their own choice) . Apparently the younger not.
But overall, no worries. Pavlos sons, as far as they remain residents out of Greece, won't be called to the army. But if they move definitely in Greece they will have to.
 
Announcement on the reinstatement of Greek citizenship to members of the Greek Royal Family:

"It is with deep emotion that, after thirty years, we hold the Greek citizenship again. The law of 1994 deprived us of our citizenship, rendering us stateless with all that this entails in terms of individual rights and great emotional distress.

Our father and our family fully respected the result of the 1974 referendum. However, the provision of the 1994 law on citizenship, a result of the political status at the time, was not befitting of a former head of the Greek state and an institution that served the country faithfully. The passing of our father marked the end of an era.

Prerequisite for the reinstatement of our nationality was to declare a surname thus, we chose the one chosen by our late uncle, Michel De Gréce, that was the only familiar one to us since our family never bore a surname.

During the years we were deprived of our citizenship, we were driven by the duty and honor of serving our country with loyalty and devotion from wherever we were, with all our means. The same principles will continue to guide the course of our family."
 
Pavlos speaks of a closed circle, but, his mother, who was and bears the title of Queen, and Princess Irene, who was the daughter of a King and eleven Crown Princess of Greece, both affected by the 1994 Law, since both had their passports revoked, THEY HAVE NOT SIGNED ANYTHING. They are members of the Royal House, since Anna Maria is the one who bears the highest title in the hierarchy, and because Irene, unlike the children of Prince Pavlos, is the daughter of a King.They have signed that law and have received a passport dated 1974, which qualifies them as Greeks since this period. I do not know if their brothers Filippos and Teodora date it, but obviously the date of birth is not. As long as they are alive the circle is not closed. He, his brothers, and his children have closed the circle for themselves, but that does not mean that those who have not signed that document are excluded...
 
Queen Anne-Marie is not Greek by birth. Her lineage is the highest as she is the daughter of a King and she married a King. She became Greek by mariage and by feeling, despite the only 3 years she spent in Greece as a Queen, before returning decades after as a simple citizen.. but once a King... always a King.
Why should ahe disregard her husband's wil to obtain a citizenship she does not really need? Considering the way the Greek Governments (and a part of the population) treated them... why should she bother? For the next 10-20 years she will leave?
For her kids and grandchilds (Pavlos' side ) i understand.
Significative also that Alexias children did not proceeed either.
As for Irene, out of loyalty towards her late brother, she might be too sick to accept any procedure. She will spend the rest of her life in Spain, so what for?
 
I don’t understand what Pavlos and family and siblings (except maybe Nik) get out of this. Even assuming you can’t give up something the Greek government doesn’t recognize anyway… it feels cheap. That they had to wait until the King was gone screams volumes.
 
To me it looks like they feel connected to Greece and want to be considered Greek even though all of them spent more of lives living outside of Greece than in Greece. I know that three of Constantine and Anne-Marie's five children were born in Greece, but their exile happened while they were still children.
 
To me it looks like they feel connected to Greece and want to be considered Greek even though all of them spent more of lives living outside of Greece than in Greece. I know that three of Constantine and Anne-Marie's five children were born in Greece, but their exile happened while they were still children.
Not three. Only Alexia and Pavlos were born in Greece. Nikolaos qas born in Rome and th2 youngest in London. Furthermore the importance is not the place of birth, but how they feel. And they feel Greek, they claim this and we respect it.
For me is a good fact they managed. They will be called de Grèce... so this recalls for ever the country of their heart, at least for late King's kids. For next generation i don't really know.
 
It's not necessarily disqualifying (especially since we don’t know what he’s anaphylactic to). He would just be required to carry his Epi-pens with him at all times which he no doubt does anyway.
I'm not sure what you mean by "disqualifying," but he wouldn't be "anaphylactic to" something. He would be allergic to something that causes anaphylaxis. And, for all we know, he may have outgrown the allergy years ago. His brother's post, which prompted the discussion, referred to an incident when he was a child.

Announcement on the reinstatement of Greek citizenship to members of the Greek Royal Family:


It's interesting that Pavlos' post referred to "Michel de Grece," rather than HRH Prince Michael of Greece. Have they all given up their titles?

Pavlos speaks of a closed circle, but, his mother, who was and bears the title of Queen, and Princess Irene, who was the daughter of a King and eleven Crown Princess of Greece, both affected by the 1994 Law, since both had their passports revoked, THEY HAVE NOT SIGNED ANYTHING. They are members of the Royal House, since Anna Maria is the one who bears the highest title in the hierarchy, and because Irene, unlike the children of Prince Pavlos, is the daughter of a King.They have signed that law and have received a passport dated 1974, which qualifies them as Greeks since this period. I do not know if their brothers Filippos and Teodora date it, but obviously the date of birth is not. As long as they are alive the circle is not closed. He, his brothers, and his children have closed the circle for themselves, but that does not mean that those who have not signed that document are excluded...
I wonder how the youngest boy, Aristidis, who is just 16, could be included, since he's too young to sign a legally binding document. Makes me think you're right that they didn't sign anything.
 
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In many ways I’m happy for them- if they feel that strongly then good for them going about it and sorting it out. It feels very fair, they have recognised the current government and therefore the reality that there is no chance of them having an official role on anyway in Greece. Both sides have given something IMO- Pavlos and his sibling's recognising the current form of government and the Greek government accepting the surname De Grece.
I’m intrigued by any impact this may have on their titles but the reality is these were no longer recognised by the Greek government and were merely being used as a social convention anyway, certainly for the grandchildren of C and Anne Marie who were not even born when the monarchy fell.
The bit that intrigues me most is that Anne Marie is not part of this and has not done the same.
 
The explanation that this step could not be taken by the king and while he was alive, suggests that his wife, queen Anne Marie is morally bound to follow her husband's decision in this. If she would be strongly against her children taken this decision, I am sure they would have waited out of respect for her. So, my take is that while she herself did not feel 'free' to do so, she supports her children and grandchildren in solving this lingering issue.

And indeed, there is little reason for Irene, who is a Spanish citizen if I am not mistaken, (nor for Sophia) to join them in this request.
 
What about the 1994 law did Constantine not agree with and was "not befitting a former head of state"? I know he didn't agree with the fact that to reclaim citizenship meant renouncing their claims to the throne - is that any different to now? Or is Pavlos just more realistic than Constantine?

I completely get Anne Marie not going for something her husband was opposed to and yet also see Pavlos and his sibling wanting to be, let's say, more pragmatic. Yet it does surprise me a little they would do something that Anne Marie herself wouldn't agree to.
 
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I think that the law should be read.
The Greek government has not recognised the surname Grece, now, which in Greek does not mean Greece, it was registered in the register of Athens since 2004, the year in which Michel invented the formula to translate De Grece to the Greek alphabet, when he acquired Greek nationality.
But in greek , Greece is Ellas.

I am surprised that Pavlosd says, Michael De Grece, and not Prince Michel.
Why? Do they also reject titles?

And in the case of Queen Anna Maria, her Danish passport says, Her Majesty Queen Anna Maria, I understand that. The Venizelos law of 1994 says that they do not get their Greek passport back, they receive a new one dated 1974. Previously their nationality was extinguished, so they are foreigners who accepted a passport, it is said by this law 1994. For Teodora, Filippos and the grandchildren, the passport date is not 1974, which was not born, it is 2024, they are Greek since 2024. I understand that Queen Anna Maria and King Constantine could not accept it, Constantine was born in Greece, did military service, had a military career in Greece, won an Olympic medal... Obviously HE WAS GREEK SINCE JUNE 2, 1940, that is logical, and Anna Maria too, she renounced her Danish citizenship, and acquired Greek citizenship in 1964, through marriage, she is not going to sign a document that says that she was not Queen.

What is the date of nationality according to the 1994 law that they receive? I do not know the exact date of 1974 of their passport, but if it is December 8, 1974, referendum, I believe that if it is so, December 8, 1974, I WOULD NOT ACCEPT THAT EITHER, EVER, TO CARRY A PASSPORT WITH THE DATE OF THE REFERENDUM.

The children of King Constantine and Queen Anna Maria do not lose so much, they renounce being natural Greeks, but obviously Constantine and Anna Maria could not accept such an act, they lost a lot.

This announcement raises more questions than answers. Michael of Greece, the end of an era, and in Greek version it is said by "Office of the former Royal Family of Greece"
 
The reason why Constantine did not accept the law was the extinction of his Greek passport, the law of 1994 says it, with the consideration of him as a foreigner who acquires a new passport. By this law, King Constantine would ceased to be a natural Greek by birth. He had repeated in interviews, many times, that he was born in Greece, baptized in Greece, that he was the head of the army... He could not sign a document that said he was Greek since 1974, for that reason, he called the law ridiculous.
He always said that his ancestors were many times exiled, and his Greek nationality was never withdrawn, his grandfather Constantine had it from birth and the rest of his descendants...to 1994.
He couldn't sign a law that said that they were not natural greeks.

And secondly, he did not deny the result of the referendum, nor that Greece is a republic, but he believed in the monarchy, and the law could not force him not to believe in it.


Everyone says, let's face it, "there will never be a monarchy in Greece," but it turns out that the communist party defends an impossible state today, and it is in the Greek parliament defending its ideals (besides, communism in Greece is Stalinist). Nobody has told the communists to sign that they will not defend it.
 
The children of King Constantine and Queen Anna Maria do not lose so much, they renounce being natural Greeks, but obviously Constantine and Anna Maria could not accept such an act, they lost a lot.
And Pavlos' children, by the same logic, lose nothing since they were never "natural Greeks" to begin with, but now have the privilege of being citizens of 3 countries (the US, the UK, and Greece, with the latter also giving them EU citizenship).
 
If they only did it for the EU citizenship I’m really going to roll my eyes.

Note, please, for the "pragmatic" camp: do you think they should give who-knows-what up in exchange for this and that there is then no issue the next time MC or Olympia wears a tiara (particularly Queen Sophia’s giant diamond one)?
 
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