Titles, Styles and Names of the Grand Ducal Family


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irishthanhy

irishthanhy

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I am very confused on this matter, so I'm hoping someone will be able to clear this up.

From my understanding HRH Grand Duke Jean gave up the title of Prince of Bourbon-Parma for himself and his descendants. I have seen the title applied to HRH Hereditary Grand Duke Guillaume (only him, however) occasionally with the note 'since 2001' and I keep wondering why.

Thanks in advance to any one who can answer.
 
The press is not known for doing thorough research espically when it comes to royalty.That is why they address the Herditary Grand Duke as Prince of Bourbon-Parma.If they dug deeper into his family history they would have known his family no longer
holds the title prince/princess of Bourbon-Parma.
 
Next Star said:
The press is not known for doing thorough research espically when it comes to royalty.That is why they address the Herditary Grand Duke as Prince of Bourbon-Parma.If they dug deeper into his family history they would have known his family no longer
holds the title prince/princess of Bourbon-Parma.
Click to expand...

I was going to say the exact same thing until I read your post Next Star. Dropped that along time ago.
 
That's what I figured at first. The 'since 2001' threw me off.

Thanks.
 
In 1981 Duke Carlo Ugo of Parma considered thew wedding of Henri and Maria Teresa morganatic, so Guillaume has no rights to the throne of Parma, but maybe he and his family conserved the title...also some Princes of Prussia lost theyr right to the throne but continue to hold the title (the firstborn and the secondborn of prince Louis Ferdinand and theyr descendants)
 
MAfan said:
In 1981 Duke Carlo Ugo of Parma considered thew wedding of Henri and Maria Teresa morganatic, so Guillaume has no rights to the throne of Parma, but maybe he and his family conserved the title...also some Princes of Prussia lost theyr right to the throne but continue to hold the title (the firstborn and the secondborn of prince Louis Ferdinand and theyr descendants)
Click to expand...

Correct, for the Parma's family rules the wedding has been morganatic.
It is amusing to read this thread if we think that we are talking about Guillaume and the inexistent "throne" of Parma, when he will be, soon or later, Grandduke of Luxembourg!
 
MAfan said:
In 1981 Duke Carlo Ugo of Parma considered thew wedding of Henri and Maria Teresa morganatic, so Guillaume has no rights to the throne of Parma, but maybe he and his family conserved the title...also some Princes of Prussia lost theyr right to the throne but continue to hold the title (the firstborn and the secondborn of prince Louis Ferdinand and theyr descendants)
Click to expand...

You are indeed correct concerning the rights to the non-existant throne of Parma. Henri is as sovereign head of state, however, free to bestow any title he pleases upon Guillaume. He probably granted Guillaume the title of Prince of Bourbon-Parma for historic reasons.

In Germany titles are now part of a person's name and therefore cannot be taken away anymore by the head of a (royal or noble) house.
 
Count said:
Correct, for the Parma's family rules the wedding has been morganatic.
It is amusing to read this thread if we think that we are talking about Guillaume and the inexistent "throne" of Parma, when he will be, soon or later, Grandduke of Luxembourg!
Click to expand...

Well, discussions about succession rights to non-existant thrones are a source of never-ending amusement, aren't they? ;)
 
Princess21 said:
I was reading information on http://www.nettyroyal.nl/luxembourg1.html website and it said that HRH Grand Duke Jean that on July 28th 1987 he abandoned the titled Prince of Bourbon of Parme.
Click to expand...

Why did he do that? What was the benefit in giving up the title? Did he give up the rights to the throne of Parma as well or was it only the title that he stopped using?

I'm a little confused now! So Guillaume does indeed hold the title of Prince of Bourbon-Parma because his father bestowed it on him. But he has no right to the 'throne of Parma' because Henri and MT's marriage was considered morganatic. Have I got that straight?
 
The official titles of the sovereigns of Luxembourg are (in French): Grand Duc de Luxembourg, Duc de Nassau, Comte du Rhine, Comte de Sayn, Königstein, Katzenelnbogen et Diez, Vicomte d'Hammerstein, Seigneur de Mahlberg, Wiesbaden, Idstein, Merenberg, Limbourg et d'Eppstein with the style Altesse Royale (Royal Highness).

The official title of the heir to the throne is: Prince Héréditaire de Luxembourg with the style Altesse Royale. The heir to the throne is usually granted the titles Grand Duc Héréditaire de Luxembourg, Prince Héréditaire de Nassau after he has reached the age of 18.
Grand Duke Adolphe's descendants in male lineage bore the titles Prince/Princesse de Luxembourg, Prince/Princesse de Nassau with the style Altesse Grand-Ducale (Grand-Ducal Highness).
Grand Duchess Charlotte's descendants in male lineage bore the titles Prince/Princesse de Luxembourg, Prince/Princesse de Bourbon de Parme with the style Altesse Royale.
By Grand-Ducal Decree of July 28th, 1986 Grand Duke Jean renounced the title Prince/Princesse de Bourbon de Parme and adopted the family name Nassau for himself and his family. (As MAfan wrote by the reason was unequal marriage of Henri to MT as CarlosHugo said.)

By Grand-Ducal Decree of September 21st, 1995 is established that the children of the sovereign and the children of the heir to the throne will bear the title Prince/Princesse de Luxembourg with the style Altesse Royale. The other members of the family will bear the title Prince/Princesse de Nassau with the style Altesse Royale. A prince who contracts a marriage without consent will bear the title Comte de Nassau, his wife will bear the title Comtesse de Nassau and their children will bear the title Comte/Comtesse de Nassau. A princess who contracts a marriage without consent will bear the title Comtesse de Nassau.
By Grand-Ducal Decree of November 27th, 2004 the children of Prince Jean and the wife and children of Prince Robert have been granted the personal title Prince/Princesse de Nassau with the style Altesse Royale.
By Grand-Ducal Decree of February 3rd, 2006 the surname of the Grand-Ducal family has been altered from "Nassau" into "de Nassau".
Henri van Oene's Royal Genealogies Page

About
HRH Prince Guillaume Jean Joseph Marie of Luxembourg, Prince of Bourbon-Parma

(Since July 28th, 1986:) HRH Prince Guillaume Jean Joseph Marie of Luxembourg
(Since October 7th, 2000:) HRH Hereditary Prince Guillaume Jean Joseph Marie of Luxembourg, Hereditary Prince of Nassau
(Since December 18th, 2000:) HRH Hereditary Grand Duke Guillaume Jean Joseph Marie Nassau of Luxembourg, Hereditary Prince of Nassau, Prince of Bourbon-Parma
* Maternité Grande Duchesse Charlotte, Luxembourg, November 11th, 1981
Hereditary Prince of Luxembourg, October 7th, 2000. Created Hereditary Grand Duke of Luxembourg, Hereditary Prince of Nassau, Prince of Bourbon-Parma, December 18th, 2000 http://www.geocities.com/dagtho/luxdecree20001218.html
 
Magnik, you're a gem! Thank you for your detailed info.
 
I know that the Grand Duke and Grand Duchess of Luxembourg are entitled to use the style Royal Highness. However, I am not sure about what is the correct style for their children.

Descendants of Grand Duke Jean would also be entitled to use the style Royal Highness as princes of Bourbon-Parma, but if I recall correctly, Grand Duke Jean renounced the title of prince of Bourbon-Parma for himself and his family. So, if The Grand Duke's children are no longer considered princes of Bourbon-Parma, what is their correct style? Is it perhaps Grand Ducal Highness - the style once used by princes of the Grand Duchy of Hesse and by Rhine - or something else?
 
That's a good question...I don't know the answer, but all recognizes them as Royal Highnesses...Also the last Grand Dukes of Toscana of Medici Family were recognized as Royal Highnesses, and that was their official status, so I think the Luxemburgian Princes can be called Royal Highnesses.
 
I believe the Wikipedia pages on them has the information you need. How accurate it is, I can't say. I believe all of the Grand Duke's children are still styled as HRH. I'm not sure of the reason for this. Sorry I can't be more helpful.

I do know that it's been discussed before on this board that HGD Guillaume also carries the title of Prince of Bourbon-Parma, despite GD Jean renouncing that title in the past. It was granted to Guillaume by his father GD Henri. I don't think any of Guillaume's siblings have that title though, just him alone. The GD's children are also Princes of Nassau.
 
Very odd that he has a title that his grand father renounced. Though perhaps over time the relations between him and the Duke of Parma might have improved, the Duke seems less rigid in his views as he was before his own children grew up.

About the HRH: I believe it now comes with the 'Prince of Luxembourg' title, the former Grand DUke sort of promoted his family. I am not sure about the legal basis of it but I suppose he can change such things by decree (that is how the Dutch Queen & Belgian King do it anyway).
 
Wikipedia pages classifies all living princes of Luxembourg as princes of Bourbon-Parma, whether it's correct or not, and therefore Wikipedia's articles accord them the style Royal Highness.

Marengo, is there an actual decree that "promoted" princes of Luxembourg to Royal Highnesses? Can the Grand Duke actually change the family's titles and styles? If they renounced the title that gave them the style of Royal Highness, why didn't they revert to their original style? It's absolutely unfair that a non-royal prince of the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg ranks higher than a royal prince of the Kingdom of Denmark (Prince Felix for example, who is merely Highness). What was their original style anyway?
 
On July 28, 1986 HRH Grand Duke Jean renounced for himself and his descendants the title Prince/ss of Bourbon-Parma and took the surname Nassau for himself and his decendants. His siblings appear to still carry Bourbon-Parma titles and in the male line would be eligable to pass them on via legitimate decent.

The ruling Grand Duke/Duchess was always styled Royal Highness. Until the marriage of Grand Duchess Charlotte to HRH Prince Felix of Bourbon-Parma other members of the family were styled Grand Ducal Highness. Her children inherited the style of Royal Highness from their father with the Bourbon-Parma titles in addition to their Luxembourg titles. When Grand Duke Jean renounced the title he pointedly kept the Royal Highness and by clarifying the styles and titles of members of the Grand Ducal Family in 4 seperat decrees (some by Henri after ascention) since his renounciation it has been reaffirmed and recreated that they are still Royal Highness without regard for the Bourbon-Parma titles.

In 1995 a decree was issued stating that a Prince/ss who would marry without consent would bear the title Count/ess of Nassau and this would pass unto the children of the Prince. Why Tessy de Nassau and her sons are not styled as Count/ess of Nassau given this decree is beyond me. I assume Louis renounced without considering to ask for consent thus making the decree not apply because he didn't marry without consent because it was not necessary after he gave up his rights.

The children of Grand Duke Henri are ALL styled as royal highness prince/ss of Luxembourg (including Louis). Guillaume is styled royal highness with the titles The Hereditary Grand Duke of Luxembourg, Hereditary Prince of Nassau, Prince of Bourbon-Parma. He is the only one of the children of Henri to bear the Bourbon-Parma title. Henri himself does not even carry the title. He did not recreate it for himself after his father gave it up. The Bourbon-Parma title was given to Guillaume on December 18, 2000 at the same time he was named Hereditary Grand Duke. His decendants will continue the Bourbon-Parma titles.

Only the children of a Grand Duke or a Hereditary Grand Duke will carry the title Prince/ss of Luxembourg. All other members of the family will be HRH Prince/ss of Nassau since 1995. In 2004 Henri allowed the wife and children (even the one born out of wedlock) of his brother Prince Jean to carry the style of Royal Highness with the title Prince/ss of Nassau. I think we can expect similar steps to eventually be taken for Tessy de Nassau and her children with Prince Louis.
 
Question about Maria Teresa

Is Grand Duchess Maria Teresa the only Grand Duchess in the world. If there are more Grand duchess's , please tell me and show a picture of them. Thanks. :flowers:
 
Archduchess Elyssa of Austria-Tuscany is the titolar Grand Duchess of Toscana, and Archduchess Dorothea is the titular Dowager Grand Duchess of Tuscany, but these titles are not reognized; so Maria Teresa is the only Grand Duchess in the world officially recognized.
 
The Grand Duchess of Luxembourg is the only de facto Grand Duchess.

The Russian title of Великая Княжна (velika kneginja in my language) is traditionally translated as Grand Duchess, though the correct translation would be Grand Princess. Two women use the courtesy title of Grand Duchess of Russia - Maria Vladimirovna, the pretender to the Russian throne (known as HIH The Grand Duchess of Russia) and her mother Leonida (known as HIH The Dowager Grand Duchess of Russia).
 
There has been a Grand Duchy in Baden, Sounthern Germany, around 1900. I am in the lucky posession of the Grand Duchy coocery book of that time, of course, only a reproduction, but with delicious recipes....:chef:.
The author's name is Emma Wundt.
 
Tilla said:
There has been a Grand Duchy in Baden, Sounthern Germany, around 1900. I am in the lucky posession of the Grand Duchy coocery book of that time, of course, only a reproduction, but with delicious recipes....:chef:.
The author's name is Emma Wundt.
Click to expand...
Yes, so also Margravine Valerie of Baden is the titular Grand Duchess of Baden.
 
And luxemburgo is not a kingdom, because it is a small country, and a kingdom is for a big country? as in monaco that is a principality, was not a kingdom, because it was very small to be a kingdom, this way it happens in luxemburgo?
Theoretically is maria teresa like a queen in luxemburgo truth?
 
rociocristina said:
And luxemburgo is not a kingdom, because it is a small country, and a kingdom is for a big country? as in monaco that is a principality, was not a kingdom, because it was very small to be a kingdom, this way it happens in luxemburgo?
Theoretically is maria teresa like a queen in luxemburgo truth?
Click to expand...

In Vatican, GD Maria Teresa is considered a queen, because she can wear white in presence of the pope.

http://www.monarchie.lu/fr/Galerie/...es_du_Saint-Pere/audiencesaintpere_img_01.jpg
 
Thank you, and I saw in the funeral of the pope jean 2 and maria teresa was of white as the other queens that were present
 
Thanks Girls. Do you girls think that Grand Duchess is a cool title.I never liked it becase I always thought It was a rank as a Duchess(which it's not of course) But just with the Grand at the begining.What's your opinion.

:swedenstandard:
 
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