They are. Grand Duke Adolphe of Luxembourg (great great grandfather of GD Henri) was brother to Queen Sofia of Sweden (great great grandmother to King CXVIG)
Indeed. But still they are not descending from Grand Duke of Luxembourg
Not strictly as GD Adolphe succeeded King Willem III of the Netherlands as Luxembourg’s Head of State.
I can accept that because of the changes in the law enacting strict primogeniture retrospectively in the case of Crown Princess Victoria " radical" may be considered a strong word with reference to HRH Princess Madeleine's children being on the same footing as HRH Prince Carl Philip's children . However I do feel that in that particular case the fact that her husband not only made it clear that he would not be accepting a title, or Swedish citizenship, or any formal role within the Royal Family should have been considered . Only my personal opinion, but I feel that Duchies would have been a good compromise, or the title of Princess or Prince without the HRH . It must have already been clear that it would be unlikely that any children would be required to be full time working members of the Royal Family . Again only my opinion, but I feel that if change was going to happen with regard to primogeniture it should have happened with all Swedish titles .
However the marriages of Carl Philip and Madeleine’s children will fit the official definition of a morganatic marriage because Carl Gustaf decided that their spouses can’t share their titles which is strange and unnecessary. Their spouses having courtesy titles wouldn’t change their kids being untitled.
They would be considered royals because they were married to royals. Swedish princesses can share their (non-heir) titles with their spouses, Madeleine’s husband declined a title because he didn’t want to become a Swedish citizen. CG removed the HRH from CP and Madeleine’s children so the titles they hold are purely courtesy titles. Their spouses’ titles would be courtesy titles without an HRH as well. In Denmark they would take away princely titles upon marriage if the marriage was unequal, princes would receive the title of count of Rosenborg and princesses would become Mrs. (husband’s surname). I can imagine that the public will find it very strange that a prince’s wife is simply Mrs. Bernadotte, the spouses should at least get to share the ducal titles.
The marriages won't be morganatic since spouse and children never had any rights to their spouse or parents' title or status in the first place. They will also be a part of the Line of Succession.
One of the major points of the reform of 2019 was to limit the members of the Royal House and to limit the use of Royal titles. If all of the seven grandchildren in question marry and their spouses get to share their courtesy titles that would add seven princes and princesses to the Royal family which would go against the purpose of the reform. Most likely more than seven since some of them are statistically bound to get divorced and remarry.
Couldn’t the spouses at least use the ducal titles? Carl Gustaf was going to create Madeleine’s ex-fiancé a duke consort but not a prince. Also does this reform mean that Oscar’s kids won’t be titled?
And yet he allowed his two grandchildren born after 2019 to be a prince and princess.
We don't know what will happen to any children of Oscar's, but IMO to conform with the purpose of the reform they shouldn't get any titles.
I’m glad the decision he made was gender-blind, doesn’t mean I agree with it. I’m fine with CP and Madeleine’s grandchildren not being titled but I think their children’s spouses should still receive titles. Making them non-royal duke/duchess consorts like the title CG was going to give to Madeleine’s ex-fiancé would be a good compromise.
Wives of Swedish princes have always been made princesses in their own right so she would be Princess Alexandra, Duchess of Södermanland if not for CG’s decision.
I though if a woman married a Swedish prince and their marriage is approved by the monarch they are automatically are princesses and they weren’t created princesses in their own right!
They’ve always become Princess (their own name), not Princess (husband’s name). Men who marry princesses can now become princes as well but not crown prince or king unfortunately.
Them becoming Princess (her own name) was what I meant but it’s correct that that’s a courtesy title held by marriage.
No, she’ll simply be Mrs. Bernadotte which is ridiculous. The title of Princess (husband’s name) doesn’t exist in Sweden.
A courtesy title would be the typical title held by the wife of a prince so Princess X, Duchess of Södermanland without the HRH since Alexander no longer has an HRH.
That would in my opinion make the whole reform rather pointless since instead of limiting the Royal family we'd have more dukes and duchesses than ever before.
www.expressen.se
I mean something similar to Maxima who is legally not the Queen of the Netherlands, only Princess of the Netherlands but by courtesy she is addressed as HM Queen Maxima.What is meant by “courtesy”?
If a courtesy title is defined as a title without any privileges attached to it, then all of the royal family’s titles, besides Alexander’s dukedom of Södermanland (which has property attached to it), are courtesy titles.
If a courtesy title is defined as a title that is not legally recognized, then I don’t think any of the royals’ titles are courtesy titles. The HRHs have been allowed to use their royal titles in some, though not all, legal documents (including marriage contracts and driver’s licenses), and I assume the non-HRHs will be permitted to do the same.
Since there is no Swedish tradition of distinguishing between “courtesy” and non-”courtesy” royal titles, I interpret the 2019 comments from the Marshal of the Realm to mean that the grandchildren’s spouses should not be called (or call themselves) Prince/ss or Duke/Duchess, period. (Of course, there is plenty of time to reconsider that decision.)
By the way, does anyone know the exact words of his comment? Expressen paraphrases it as Deras titlar kommer dock inte att föras vidare till deras framtida partners och barn (Their titles will not be passed on to their future partners and children), but it is not a direct quote.
Kungens beslut - Prinsbarnen kommer inte längre tillhöra kungahuset
På måndagen kom kung Carl Gustaf med beskedet om stora förändringar i det svenska kungahuset. Kungen har bestämt att fem av hans barnbarn, Madeleines barn och Carl Philips barn, inte längre kommer att kallas kungliga högheter. Barnen kommer att fråntas apanaget och blir inte skyldiga att...
It is clear that people differ in their definitions of “morganatic”, but wouldn’t your definition exclude nearly all marriages that others refer to as morganatic (such as Countess Sophie Chotek to Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria-Este)? In most cases, if a spouse does not share their marriage partner’s title and status, it is because they never had a legal right to it.
That’s why I pointed out that CG allowed his grandchildren born after 2019 to be a prince and princess which doesn’t limit the number of titled people. You’re right that by the time CP and Madeleine’s children get married Victoria will be queen and she may want to do something different.
Under the Act of Succession, "princes and princesses of the Royal House" need the consent of the Swedish government to get married, but such consent can only be granted upon application by the King. In practice, then, they need a double consent of the King and the government. If a prince or princess of the Royal House marries without consent, the said prince or princess and their descendants are excluded from the line of succession.
I meant a title without an HRH.What is meant by “courtesy”?
I think the spouses becoming non-royal dukes/duchesses would be a good compromise as well but unfortunately the 2019 reform doesn’t allow for that. Victoria may make a new reform when her nieces and nephews get married.
The Marshal said that: "These titles are personal and won't be passed on to wife/husband or the next generation".
