Titles, Legal Status, Precedence and other related matters of the Hohenzollerns

[Julia]

Question: if there were to be a king of Germany who would he be? Ernst August of Hannover? Or, would Georg Friedrich be king?

Thanks to you all for the information and photos so far! Great information!

 

[Sue-]

I just looked for information. But I think the king would come from the Hohenzollern family because in the magazine I have is a little story about them. After the facts Georg Friedrich's father must be king and he would be the Crown prince. Prince Louis Ferdinand (the grandfather of Georg) was the first son of Crown Prince Wilhelm. Wilhelm died 1951 and Louis Ferdinand 1994. But now I don't understand what the difference is between Hohenzollern and Prussia. Well, I hope I could answer to your question. It interests me too, if I have time I will try to find out more or anyone else here maybe could help

 

[hrhcp]

I just looked for information. But I think the king would come from the Hohenzollern family because in the magazine I have is a little story about them. After the facts Georg Friedrich's father must be king and he would be the Crown prince. Prince Louis Ferdinand (the grandfather of Georg) was the first son of Crown Prince Wilhelm. Wilhelm died 1951 and Louis Ferdinand 1994. But now I don't understand what the difference is between Hohenzollern and Prussia. Well, I hope I could answer to your question. It interests me too, if I have time I will try to find out more or anyone else here maybe could help

THe difference between "Hohenzollern and Prussia" is the same as the difference between "Bush and USA".

Given that:
Bush is the family name, USA is the area they rule.

Thus:
Hohenzollern is the family name. Prussia is the area they ruled.

 

[juliamontague]

Question: if there were to be a king of Germany who would he be? Ernst August of Hannover? Or, would Georg Friedrich be king?

Thanks to you all for the information and photos so far! Great information!

Maybe this can help, it's a family tree of Georg Friedrich.
If we had an Emperor in Germany, he would be.

 

[Julia]

Thanks, Julia, for posting the family tree! Makes much more sense.

So, if Germany had an emperor or king do our German, and other members, think Georg Friedrich would make a good ruler?

 

[Sue-]

Yes, why not. He is smart and clever and he is young as well so he would rule much more casual. I think he would do a good job.

 

[Julia]

Yes, why not. He is smart and clever and he is young as well so he would rule much more casual. I think he would do a good job.

Since I am not from Germany it's always interesting to hear what our German members have to say about German princes and the like. Are there any particular articles on Georg Frederich which we could find online, or are they mostly newspaper/magazine articles?

 

[Sue-]

Well, I just looked for online information about him because I very often get information from magazine articles. But I think that there a more reports about Georg Friedrich in the Berliner newspapers because he lives there. I live in the other part of Germany so I only read something in different magazines.
Here what I found, I will look for some more online reports etc. when I have more time.

www.preussen.de (also in English and on top with info about the Hohenzollern family)

 

[Charles]

Maybe this can help, it's a family tree of Georg Friedrich.
If we had an Emperor in Germany, he would be.

Not only would George Frederick be the German Emperor, he would also be the King of Prussia and Grand Duke of Mecklenburg.

 

[PreDoc]

A few questions ...

Would anybody be kind enough to answer any (or all) of the below?:

1. Is Georg Friedrich's correct formal style "His Royal and Imperial Highness"?

2. How does he earn a living, or does he even have to (i.e. inheritance)?

3. I appreciate the photos that have been posted, can anyone recommend any creative web searches I can conduct to find more?

4. What was the 'three generation' morganatic marriage discussion about up-thread? I mean, is there something statuatory about how he must marry?

 

[Warren]

Would anybody be kind enough to answer any (or all) of the below?:
1. Is Georg Friedrich's correct formal style "His Royal and Imperial Highness"?
2. How does he earn a living, or does he even have to (i.e. inheritance)?
3. I appreciate the photos that have been posted, can anyone recommend any creative web searches I can conduct to find more?
4. What was the 'three generation' morganatic marriage discussion about up-thread? I mean, is there something statuatory about how he must marry?

1. Yes, Georg Friedrich as Head of the House of Hohenzollern is HI&RH.
2. He manages the family business (castles, property, tourism).
4. The Family Laws stipulate the 'equality' of a marriage for dynastic purposes.
German law will only dictate inheritance rights; the State will not get involved in the internal family rules.

 

[PreDoc]

The Family Laws stipulate the 'equality' of a marriage for dynastic purposes.
German law will only dictate inheritance rights; the State will not get involved in the internal family rules.

Thanks so much for the response. I'm curious though, if the state dictates inheritance rights, that surely must supersede internal family rules. So does that mean he is free to marry whomever he chooses with no loss to his rights and assets?

 

[Sancia]

Thanks so much for the response. I'm curious though, if the state dictates inheritance rights, that surely must supersede internal family rules. So does that mean he is free to marry whomever he chooses with no loss to his rights and assets?

The loss of a right to a throne does not mean you will not inherit from your family. It's something distinct. So the family internal rules about an hypothetical throne are not to be superseded by inheritance laws.

 

[branchg]

He is no longer a Royal or Imperial Highness because the noblility is formally abolished in Germany. Legally, he is simply Georg-Friedrich, Prince von Hohenzollern as his surname.

He is granted the courtesy of his rank and title among the European royal houses, but never precedence, as the family no longer reigns. The matter of marriage equality is up to him as the Head of the House and is likely to be abolished given the difficulty of enforcing it in a modern society.

The Hohenzollerns have managed to retain a sizable fortune and invested wisely in the post-war Germany. It is enough for Georg-Friedrich not to worry about his next meal, although I doubt he is truly rich since he must support many other members of his family.

 

[branchg]

Thanks so much for the response. I'm curious though, if the state dictates inheritance rights, that surely must supersede internal family rules. So does that mean he is free to marry whomever he chooses with no loss to his rights and assets?

He can marry whomever he wishes as Head of the House. Whether the marriage is considered equal or not under the House Rules is totally up to him. He can change the rules anytime he wants to.

 

[winter]

He is no longer a Royal or Imperial Highness because the noblility is formally abolished in Germany. Legally, he is simply Georg-Friedrich, Prince von Hohenzollern as his surname.

Nobility may be officially abolished in Germany but most people in society -also politicians- still use titles and grant former nobles special treatment.

Georg Friedrich's legal name is: Georg Friedrich Prinz von Preussen, not von Hohenzollern. And I'm pretty sure there aren't many people who would adress him as "Mr. Prince of Prussia".

 

[princessH-O]

He is still addressed as Prince of Prussia, at least that is what I have called him when I have met with him. Along with his sister and his mother, very nice people.

 

[Toledo]

Even when ther is no such thing as Prussia anymore? It's like being Prince of the extinct Kingdom of Neustria and the Kingdom of Austrasia. And for that matter, the also extinct Kingdom of Two Sicilies.

 

[Warren]

Even when there is no such thing as Prussia anymore? It's like being Prince of the extinct Kingdom of Neustria and the Kingdom of Austrasia. And for that matter, the also extinct Kingdom of Two Sicilies.

Well, there is no state called 'Prussia' but we're talking titles, not nation-states. Just as 'Wessex' ceased to be an entity at the time of the Norman conquest. Some Luxembourg Princes are Princes of Nassau (and of Bourbon-Parma until 1986); neither state exists today. So what? George Friedrich is 'Prince of Prussia', that's his title. The same goes for the titles of all members of the reigning and Noble families that made up the German and Austrian Empires, and all former reigning royalty.

 

[Toledo]

I forgot the Wessex title.
For the Prussian my idea is it would be more appropiate as Prince of Germany since that was their highest ranking and also on an established (new) nation.

 

[Warren]

I forgot the Wessex title.
For the Prussian my idea is it would be more appropiate as Prince of Germany since that was their highest ranking and also on an established (new) nation.

They were never 'Princes of Germany'; The Kaiser was 'German Emperor [Deutscher Kaiser] and King of Prussia' and the Crown Prince was 'Crown Prince of the German Empire and of Prussia'. Other members of that branch of the Hohenzollerns were Princes or Princesses of Prussia.

 

[Toledo]

That was a 'brand name' opportunity the Prussians let go away without using it.

 

[Warren]

That was a 'brand name' opportunity the Prussians let go away without using it.

I doubt if members of the other German Reigning Houses would have been enthusiastic for all Prussian Hohenzollern Princes to be known as "Prince of Germany"!
Which is probably why in 1871 they kept the German part of the new titles restricted to the Kaiser and Crown Prince, and their wives.

 

[Toledo]

Makes sense considering that north and south have a very noticeable religious difference.
Interesting parallel lives: when the kingdoms of Savoy/Sardinia, Castilla and Aragon made a single nation out of an assembly of states they eliminated any other dynastic rivals. Castilla and Aragon assembled Spain in one piece and the dynasty assumed all major regional royal titles. The Savoys put together modern Italy and evicted the mini monarchs out, Machiavelli style, to avoid competition.

But the Prussians did a more Federation approach. They let Kings, Grand Dukes and Princes keep their states and did not downgraded their rank. For example, the German Emperor did not take over titles of King of Bavaria, Saxony etc. Maybe if the new Kaiser had done so in the 19th Century it would have moved them to expand the use the Prince of Germany style to the other relatives.

 

[winter]

Yes, they let them keep their ranks, because everything else might have resulted in a war nobody wanted. The German Empire was created by treaty with a Kaiser (William I) who didn't want to become German Emperor. He wanted to stay King of Prussia, but Bismarck was stronger!

 

[Ken S.]

Yes, they let them keep their ranks, because everything else might have resulted in a war nobody wanted. The German Empire was created by treaty with a Kaiser (William I) who didn't want to become German Emperor. He wanted to stay King of Prussia, but Bismarck was stronger!

I doubt it would have resulted in a war, rather the political structure of "Germany" would simply have persisted until the proper compromises were made. Your guess is as good as mine as to how long that would have taken, but in my opinion unification was inevitable and would have occured a few years anyway had it not occured in 1871.

 

[Ken S.]

Well, there is no state called 'Prussia' but we're talking titles, not nation-states. Just as 'Wessex' ceased to be an entity at the time of the Norman conquest. Some Luxembourg Princes are Princes of Nassau (and of Bourbon-Parma until 1986); neither state exists today. So what? George Friedrich is 'Prince of Prussia', that's his title. The same goes for the titles of all members of the reigning and Noble families that made up the German and Austrian Empires, and all former reigning royalty.

Someone did apparently float the idea to merge the current states of Brandenburg, Mecklenburg and Berlin to form a new state called Prussia, but the idea didn't go over all that well.

 

[Princess Robijn]

What are the titles/styles of Prince Georg Friedrich and his sister, Princess Cornelie-Cécile??

 

[Warren]

What are the titles/styles of Prince Georg Friedrich and his sister, Princess Cornelie-Cécile??

• HI & RH Georg Friedrich, Prince of Prussia, Head of the Imperial and Royal House of Prussia
plus a whole host of ancestral titles which come with being the Head of the House.

• HRH Princess Cornelie-Cécile, Princess of Prussia

 

[Princess Robijn]

thank your, wikipedia also said Georg Friedrich had the title Prince of Orange is it true?? (isn't Prince Willem-Alexander the Prince of Orange)