Titles and Styles of Harry, his Future Wife and Children

[NancyJJ]

Thanks for the clarification of the "The" before their names.

I wondered about the Milford Haven name because I had noted the Marquis title.

What about Duke and Earl of Sussex?

And I still love the name Duke of Clarence and St. Andrews for William if for nothing else than the connection of St. Andrews with William/Kate.

 

[Lumutqueen]

What about Duke and Earl of Sussex?

There is no Earl of Sussex.
Duke of Sussex was last conferred on the sixth son of George III, and when he died in 1843 with no legitimate issue, the title became extinct.

 

[AshleyAthena]

...And I still love the name Duke of Clarence and St. Andrews for William if for nothing else than the connection of St. Andrews with William/Kate.

There is already an Earl of St. Andrews, its one of the Duke of Kent's courtacy titles, his son is known by it.

 

[Lumutqueen]

There is already an Earl of St. Andrews, its one of the Duke of Kent's courtacy titles, his son is known by it.

The poster didn't mention anything about the Earl of St Andrews. There is no Duke of St Andrews, and the connection to William, it would suit him. Just as NacyJJ said.
I would not be surprised if William was created Duke of Clarence and St Andrews.

 

[ada]

I've always had an inkling that Prince William will be Duke of Cambridge as the previous Duke of Clarence has such a sad story attached.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Another thing to suggest the opposite is that the last King William - William IV - had been Duke of Clarence before becoming King.

 

[RoyalistRiley]

There is no Earl of Sussex.
Duke of Sussex was last conferred on the sixth son of George III, and when he died in 1843 with no legitimate issue, the title became extinct.

I've always thought this would be a possibility for Prince Harry.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Henry, Duke of Sussex would be a good title.

 

[Royal Fan]

I Agree Duke of Sussex Viscount Cardiff Baron of Glascow

 

[NancyJJ]

There is no Earl of Sussex.

It appears that the Earl of Sussex is not in use at the moment.
Earls of Sussex, Peerage of the United Kingdom (1874)

• HRH The Prince Arthur, Duke of Connaught and Strathearn, Earl of Sussex (1850–1942)
• Alastair Arthur Windsor, 2nd Duke of Connaught and Strathearn, 2nd Earl of Sussex (1914–1943)

 

[Lumutqueen]

^^^^^
And yes, i've just found that out.

There is already a Earl of Glasgow, would they create a baron for the same area?

Also the title Duke of Sussex, already has subsiduary titles, don't see why they'd be changed.
They are Earl of Inverness, and Baron Arklow.

 

[NancyJJ]

Prince Andrew is Duke of York, Earl of Inverness, and Baron Killyleagh

Dukes of Albany, eighth Creation (1881)

Other titles: Earl of Clarence and Baron Arklow (1881)

• Charles Edward, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, 2nd Duke of Albany (1884–1954), posthumous only son of the 1st Duke, had his British honours suspended in 1919 for taking arms against the realm

So I believe that Baron Arklow is suspended with the Duke of Albany title.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Well if Baron Arklow was moved from the Duke of Sussex title, it can be moved back, can't it?
Hasn't Henry trained somewhere in Wales, I know William is in Anglessy at the moment.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The Earl of Inverness is taken as it is Andrew's second title and would become the courtesy title of any son (should Andrew remarry and have a son).

 

[ghost_night554]

Actually there is no guarantee he will be Prince Of Wales I think Prince Of Wales is created but it is still a requirement in a sense for his future as England's King.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Actually there is no guarantee he will be Prince Of Wales I think Prince Of Wales is created but it is still a requirement in a sense for his future as England's King.

When Charles becomes King William will automatically be Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothsay etc.

At some time after than Charles might create William Prince of Wales.

Charles himself became Duke of Cornwall instantly his mother became Queen in 1952 but it was another 6 years before she created him Prince of Wales. He was invested another 11 years later.

Edward VII waited until November 1901 to create his eldest surviving son Prince of Wales although from the instant Queen Victoria died he had been Duke of Cornwall and York, Duke of Rothesay etc.

The Prince of Wales title is a created title and therefore there is no guarantee that it will be given to William, particularly if there is a large swell against it in Wales. Conversely if there is a large call for it then it will happen.

 

[Donna Mia]

William can use the courtesy title at that point.

 

[Iluvbertie]

William can use the courtesy title at that point.

What courtesy title?

When his father becomes King he will have substantive titles and no need to use courtesy titles.

The only courtesy title he could use at the moment is Baron Greenwich - the third of Philip's titles as no one can use any of the Duke of Cornwall and Rothesay's titles or the title Earl of Chester except the holder as they are used by that holder at times e.g. The Prince of Wales uses Duke of Cornwall himself in Cornwall and Duke of Rothesay in Scotland and even Earl of Chester when in Chester.

 

[Mermaid1962]

HRH Prince William of Wales, Baron Greenwich, does sound odd.

The only courtesy title he could use at the moment is Baron Greenwich - .

 

[Iluvbertie]

HRH Prince William of Wales, Baron Greenwich, does sound odd.

If he was using Baron Greenwich he wouldn't also use HRH Prince William of Wales. The very fact that he is HRH Prince William of Wales is the reason that he doesn't use Baron Greenwich but that is the only courtesy title he could use (and that was my point - that there is only one he can ue but he doesn't because he has a title in his own right).

 

[Hereditary Thane]

I am prepared to be contradicted, however I have to say that according to my understanding, if the Prince of Wales died before he became king, his children being High and Mighty Princes would become princes with the prefix, The. This is a convention rather than a law - as are most royal decrees - within the peerage sons and daughters of Dukes have the prefix, The before lord or lady to distinguish them from children of marquises and earls. If a distant cousin inherited a dukedom, the sovereign usually gives permission for his brothers and sisters to have the courtesy title of e.g. The Lord John Smith and the Lady Mary Smith. John Smith, if married his wife would be The Lady John Smith.

If The Prince Andrew remarried and had a male heir he would be styled, prince. By current trends he may be styled Lord Inverness, but traditionally he would inherit the dukedom of York, and his son would be Earl of Inverness. Very few royal dukedoms last more than three generations for some reason, by which time they have moved directly out of the royal circle. The only royal dukedoms to survive in the direct line from the 18th and 19th centuries are those of Cumberland, and of Albany. However, in 1917 King George V abrogated British titles which had devolved upon his cousins, then German nationals.

 

[Scotslass]

Sorry if it's been covered already or this is the wrong place to post it (hope I don't make a mistake on my first post!).

Where would the future wives of Princes William and Harry fit into the line of precedence with the royal ladies?

Thank you.

 

[Zonk]

I would imagine they would come AFTER the Queen and the Duchess of Cornwall but BEFORE everyone else (Countess of Wessex, Princess Royal, Duchess of Gloucester, Duchess of Kent and Princess Alexandra of Kent).

 

[LaPlusBelle]

I would imagine they would come AFTER the Queen and the Duchess of Cornwall but BEFORE everyone else (Countess of Wessex, Princess Royal, Duchess of Gloucester, Duchess of Kent and Princess Alexandra of Kent).

Would that be the same if Prince Charles were to hypothetically not be around, or would William and Harry's wives be placed above the Duchess of Cornwall?

 

[Lumutqueen]

I would think so, because Camilla would still be the wife of Prince Charles even if he wasn't alive.

 

[Scotslass]

Thanks for that Zonk.

In terms of Court Precedence would they likely follow the Duchess of Cornwall after the Princess Royal and Princess Alexandra, but come before the Countess of Wessex?

 

[LaPlusBelle]

Thanks for that Zonk.

In terms of Court Precedence would they likely follow the Duchess of Cornwall after the Princess Royal and Princess Alexandra, but come before the Countess of Wessex?

Princess Alexandra is further down the list, since she is the granddaughter of a sovereign and not the child or spouse of a child of a sovereign.

 

[Lumutqueen]

According to this, don't know if it's 100%
Order of precedence in England and Wales - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

^^^
That link says the order goes like this
1. The Queen
2. The Princess Royal
3. Princes Beatrice
4. Princess Eugenie
5. The Lady Louise Wessex
6. Zara Phillips
7. Princess Alexandra
8. The Duchess of Cornwall
9. The Countess of Wessex
10. The Duchess of Gloucester
11. The Duchess of Kent
13. Princess Michael of Kent

but I found another little drop down box that says it goes like this

1. The Queen
2. The Duchess of Cornwall
3. The Countess of Wessex
4. The Princess Royal
5. Princess Beatrice
6. Princess Eugenie
7. Lady Louise
8. Duchess of Gloucester
9. Duchess of Kent
10. Princess Michael of Kent
11. Princess Alexandra

and two other ladies who I do not know.
I would imagine when they married, the ladies would slot in above the Countess of Wessex and below The Duchess of Cornwall.

 

[Scotslass]

Princess Alexandra is further down the list, since she is the granddaughter of a sovereign and not the child or spouse of a child of a sovereign.

Thanks. I was just wondering as I read somewhere that the Queen changed the order of precedence after Prince Charles' wedding for court things so that those born Princesses (the Princess Royal and Princess Alexandra) were above those who married in.

I was just wondering if that would mean a wife of Prince William, expected to be a future Queen, would come below The Princess Royal, Princess Beatrice etc.

Thank you for clearing that up for me.

 

[branchg]

Courtesy styles do not apply to male-line grandchildren of The Sovereign. They are automatically HRH Prince/Princess of the UK under the 1917 Letters Patent at birth.

Edward and Sophie requested their children not hold royal rank in order to allow them the benefit of having a more normal upbringing. The Queen agreed, but technically James and Louise remain HRH Prince James of Wessex and HRH Princess Louise of Wessex, although they are instead using courtesy styles as children of a Peer.

The first list is court precedence as determined by The Queen for royal occasions and can be changed at any time. The Duchess of Cornwall is currently fourth, after Her Majesty, The Princess Royal, and Princess Alexandra.

The second list is the official precedence of the Kingdom, which never changes and is the one that really counts. Here The Duchess is second after The Queen as she is the wife of the heir to the throne and next to become Queen Consort.