Titles and Styles of Harry, his Future Wife and Children

[RoyalistRiley]

Well what I mean was, Can he be created Earl of wherever, then upon his brothers ascent to the throne can he also be created Duke of somewhere else?

I understand about subsiduary titles.

My guess is it will depend on when he gets married. If the Queen was to have a terrible accident tomorrow (god forbid) and Charles becomes King and William becomes Duke of Cornwall/Rothesay, what reasons is there for Harry not becoming the Duke of wherever even though he would still be single? If, on the other hand, Harry marries before his brother becomes Duke of Cornwall/Rothesay and/or Prince of Wales, maybe an earldom might be more appropriate.

 

[branchg]

Well what I mean was, Can he be created Earl of wherever, then upon his brothers ascent to the throne can he also be created Duke of somewhere else?

I understand about subsiduary titles.

I think this is likely to happen for both William and Harry if they marry while their grandmother is alive. The Queen will create them Earls upon marriage as William automatically becomes Duke of Cornwall when Charles is King and Harry will be created a Duke once he is a son of The Sovereign.

 

[Ella Kay]

I think it partly depends on how the family decides to "package" William and his future spouse. If they decide to continue on with spotlighting William as the future heir/king (which is what the early Garter nod was for, IMO), I think they might make him a duke (and his future wife a duchess).

I could very well see HM making Harry an earl on his wedding, though -- he could then receive a dukedom on the day of his father's coronation.

 

[Lumutqueen]

I think William will get a dukedom, most probably Cambridge. And Henry and Earl of somewhere.

 

[Warren]

Posts not strictly relevant to William and Harry have been moved to the Royal Dukes and Ducal Titles thread.

 

[Mermaid1962]

Perhaps Prince Harry will have a son who can be given the York title in years to come.

Welll...look at King George VI and Queen Elizabeth. Two girls, one to become queen. Andrew is single...why not stay that way?

 

[Iluvbertie]

Perhaps Prince Harry will have a son who can be given the York title in years to come.

More likely Prince William's second son will get it I think.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Unless they change who inherits the title, which is unlikely I know.
But yes, William's second son will most likely get it when it reverts back to the crown.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Unless they change who inherits the title, which is unlikely I know.
But yes, William's second son will most likely get it when it reverts back to the crown.

I have been doing some thinking on this and now think it is more likely to be William's grandson rather than his son given Andrew is now only 50 and he does have some long-lived genes in his ancestry. If he lives to the same age as his father he has another 40 years as Duke of York by which time William's own second son could very well be married with his own title.

 

[Lumutqueen]

I still think that the title Duke of York, will be given to his second son when her marries.

 

[Warren]

I think your post crossed over with Iluvbertie's. Chances are that William's speculative second son will have his own royal dukedom well before the current Dukedom of York becomes available for re-creation.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Well that all depends on when William becomes King, when he marries, when Andrew passes away and when his second son is born.

 

[RJ TAYLER]

A general question what about a freshly created title; in the 'something created not tried before"; for HRH Harry of Wales then?

 

[Lumutqueen]

Prince Henry.
What title would you mean?
I would imagine Henry would get Earl of Sussex. If that's possible.

 

[MAfan]

Three possible Dukedoms for Harry would be Suseex, Lancaster and Strathearn. And what about the Dukedom of Connaught? Is it better to avoid using it because Connaught is now part of Ireland?

I wonder why Queen Victoria didn't create her second son Alfred as Duke of York, despite the title was at the time available; does anyone know?

 

[Lumutqueen]

The Queen is Duke of Lancaster is she not?

 

[MAfan]

Yes, you're right, my mistake

And what about the Dukedom of Cambridge?

 

[Lumutqueen]

I've always hoped that will go to William before he marries, and then to his second or third son when he ascends the throne.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I wonder why Queen Victoria didn't create her second son Alfred as Duke of York, despite the title was at the time available; does anyone know?

Victoria was loathe to associate her family with that of her father's brothers and so didn't use their titles. She relented later in life but for her own sons refused.

 

[AshleyAthena]

Clarence, Sussex and Cambridge are all extinct "royal" dukedoms, as they've been previously used by the royal family. However, as the monarch is fount of all honor, she (or he, if Charles is king) can pick any unused dukedom or make up another one depending for Harry/William/whoever.

 

[NancyJJ]

I love reading and learning about all things Royal. Being from the States I find it fascinating and confusing at the same time! Question -

Let's say William is named Duke of Cambridge when he marries, and Harry is named Duke of Clarence or Duke of Sussex when he marries (examples only), what would their subsidiary titles be? Do the Dukedoms of Cambridge, Clarence and Sussex each come with a "set" list of subsidiary titles or are the subsidiary titles "randomly" picked for the holder of the title? If Harry became Duke of Clarence, what would he be Earl of ?? and Baron of ??; and the same thing with William for Cambridge?

I hope the question makes sense. Thanks so much.

 

[Lumutqueen]

The question makes sense.
But from what I can find there are no courtesy titles that belong to Duke of Cambridge.

The last time the title Duke of Sussex was conferred to the sixth son of George III, he was created Duke of Sussex, Earl of Inverness, and Baron Arklow.

The Duke of Clarence title is more confusing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_of_Clarence

Heres the Wikipedia list, and to be quite honest I doubt anyone would tamper with this kind of list.
List of courtesy titles in the Peerages of the British Isles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[NancyJJ]

Thanks for the responses. I came up with a few more questions.

On this website - Useranbarnesdavies/Royal peerages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia they list peerages by "seniority". Does the "seniority" of a title really mean anything when they decide which ones to bestow upon someone? I keep reading that most people believe William could be named Duke of Cambridge. I see that "Clarence" is listed before Cambridge. I do realize that it depends upon when it was first created and Clarence was created before Cambridge. Just didn't know if there was a distinction between peerages that are "more important" than others. Make sense? Hope so.

Also have read before - probably on one of the forums on this website - that someone wondered if William could take a title dealing with St. Andrews since that is where he went to University and where he met Kate. I know he can't be named Earl of St. Andrews but what about Duke of St. Andrews? or Duke of Clarence and St. Andrews? Would St. Andrews be less "senior" to Cambridge? Of course William will one day have other titles and the ones he may receive upon marriage will revert back to the crown.

If William was named Duke of Cambridge or Duke of St. Andrews, could Harry be named Duke of Clarence, even though it's listed as more "senior" to the other two?

Thanks so much for the information. I have fun reading everything.

 

[NancyJJ]

Harry would get a title of lesser standing than his brother presumably, he might get additional titles when William becomes King. It all depends on what Harry wants in his future.

Thanks for the response.

Of Duke of Cambridge or Duke of St. Andrews or Duke of Clarence or Duke of Sussex, which would be the titles of higher standing or lesser standing?

 

[Lumutqueen]

Thanks for the response.

Of Duke of Cambridge or Duke of St. Andrews or Duke of Clarence or Duke of Sussex, which would be the titles of higher standing or lesser standing?

There has never been a Duke of St Andrews in there own right, it was linked to Clarence I believe.

Umm I'm not 100% but i think it would go

Sussex, Cambridge, Clarence with St Andrews.

 

[NancyJJ]

I've run accross this interesting article http://www.unofficialroyalty.com/the-laird-othistle/142-a-dukedom-for-harry and would like to get your take on what it says.

Thanks.

 

[Lumutqueen]

I personally don't think the title Duke of Windsor will be used until after the Queen has passed.
I could see why Harry would be given such a dukedom as that of Sussex, but IMO I think he should get an Earldom.

 

[Ella Kay]

There has never been a Duke of St Andrews in there own right, it was linked to Clarence I believe.

Umm I'm not 100% but i think it would go

Sussex, Cambridge, Clarence with St Andrews.

There's no St. Andrews dukedom currently -- there's an earldom of St. Andrews, held as a subsidiary title by the current Duke of Kent, and used by the Duke's son.

The dukedom of Clarence, during its last use, was linked with the Scottish place name of "Avondale." Clarence was linked with the place name "St. Andrews" when William IV held the title. If it was recreated again, it might be done so with neither of those previous place names or a new one.

 

[NancyJJ]

Did a little playing around with titles - just for fun. We all know that one day William will receive other titles. But we can assume that the Queen could live quite a few more years so it's possible William would be "Duke of " for 10-15 (or more) years before becoming Duke of Cornwall or Prince of Wales.

So, as I said just for fun, I came up with this.

HRH The Prince William, Duke of Cambridge, Marquess of Berkhamstead, Earl of Kennington, Viscount of Trematon, Baron of the Isle of Alderney

The Marquess, Earl, Viscount, Baron courtesy titles all come from Prince William the Duke of Cumberland and are not the courtesy titles of the of the suspended Duke of Cumberland.

HRH The Prince Henry, Duke of Sussex, Earl of Milford Haven, Viscount Northallerton, Baron Tewkesbury

The Earl, Viscount and Baron courtesy titles are all from Prince George, Duke of Cambridge.

The courtesy titles could be switched between Cambridge and Sussex.

Like I said - just for fun.​

 

[Iluvbertie]

Just a note - they aren't the 'The Prince William' or 'The Prince Henry' at the moment. The title 'The Prince/Princess xxx', with the capital 'T' in the word 'the' is reserved for the children of the reigning monarch (and The Prince Philip, as the consort of The Queen). So it is The Prince Charles, The Prince Andrew, The Prince Edward and The Princess Anne but Prince William of Wales, Prince Henry of Wales, Princess Beatrice of York, Princess Eugenie of York, Prince Richard, Duke of Gloucester, Prince Edward, Duke of Kent, Prince Michael of Kent and Princess Alexandra (of Kent).

When The Queen dies then William and Harry will become 'The Prince William' and 'The Prince Henry' assuming that Charles is still alive - otherwise Harry will never be 'The Prince Henry' as he won't be the child of the sovereign.

Philip's designation with the capital 'T' was made in 1957 when he was created a Prince of the UK.


I don't think that the title Earl of Milford Haven would be created considering that Prince Philip's family already has the title Marquis of Milford Haven as the main title (Philip's grandfather Prince Louis of Battenburg was the 1st Marquis, the 2nd was involved in Philip's upbringing (more so than Lord Louis if Philip is to be believed) and the 3rd was his best man).