Title & Role of a Consort

[meeralakshmi]

I didn’t intend to say anything about permission. I assume their wives were ok with it but the decrees themselves -as linked above- didn’t give them the title ‘the prince of the Netherlands’ but created them HRH prince ‘name’ of the Netherlands. The same title that children born to a monarch or heir in the Netherlands have (or in female version - again just like Máxima).

HRH The Prince of the Netherlands is the title held by a Dutch prince consort: Prince of the Netherlands

When Bernhard married Juliana he was only created HRH Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands because Juliana was still a princess. When Juliana became queen he became HRH The Prince of the Netherlands and when Juliana abdicated the couple went back to being TRH Princess Juliana and Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands. The same happened for Claus and Máxima. Hendrik would have been HRH The Prince of the Netherlands from his wedding to his death because Wilhelmina was already queen when they married.

Good point! Maybe the difference was not (only) about male and female but about Wilhelmina, Juliana and Beatrix marrying titled husbands (or whose informal title was upgraded to a recognized Dutch title), while Máxima had no title at all?

In addition, the current policy seems to be that the main line will only keep ‘Orange-Nassau’ next to being princes of the Netherlands. While the other line may pass on other titles introduced by titled spouses (jonkheer/jonkvrouw van Amsberg for Claus’ grandchildren by his two younger sons).

As Tatiana Maria explained Orange-Nassau is Máxima’s married surname. The male consorts didn’t change their surnames upon marriage. In Luxembourg the male consorts aren’t made princes of Nassau for the same reason.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I didn’t intend to say anything about permission. I assume their wives were ok with it but the decrees themselves -as linked above- didn’t give them the title ‘the prince of the Netherlands’ but created them HRH prince ‘name’ of the Netherlands. The same title that children born to a monarch or heir in the Netherlands have (or in female version - again just like Máxima).

The above-linked royal decrees for Hendrik and Bernhard didn’t provide any guidance on whether they should use “The Prince” or “Prince (name)”. The wording was, in both:

[…] te verleenen den titel van Prins der Nederlanden, met het praedicaat: Zijne Koninklijke Hoogheid.

Translation:

[…] to confer the title of Prince of the Netherlands, with the predicate: His Royal Highness.​

Only Claus’s decree uses the wording “Prince (name)”.

The decree for Máxima is also neutral on whether she should use “Princess Máxima” or “The Princess”:

[...] worden haar de titels «Prinses der Nederlanden, Prinses van Oranje-Nassau» verleend met het predikaat «Koninklijke Hoogheid».​

​

[…] the titles "Princess of the Netherlands, Princess of Orange-Nassau" will be conferred on her with the predicate "Royal Highness".​

And I must correct my earlier reply to @meeralakshmi about Máxima’s surname (it is too late to edit it): As quoted above, the decree actually states that “(Princess) of Orange-Nassau” is legally a title for Máxima, not a surname.


Only for her children is “of Orange-Nassau” a surname:

dragen de titels en namen «Prins (Prinses) der Nederlanden, Prins (Prinses) van Oranje-Nassau» met het predikaat «Koninklijke Hoogheid».​

​

Translation:​

​

bear the titles and surnames "Prince (Princess) of the Netherlands, Prince (Princess) of Orange-Nassau" with the predicate "Royal Highness".​

Here is the royal decree on the titles and surnames of Máxima and her children:

Staatsblad 2002, 41 | Overheid.nl > Officiële bekendmakingen

zoek.officielebekendmakingen.nl

I apologize for the accidental misinformation in the earlier reply.

But Máxima did lose her previous legal surname of Zorreguieta, so, strangely enough, she is probably now the only person in the Netherlands who does not have any legal surname of her own. At least she can use her husband's surname socially, if she needs to.

 

[meeralakshmi]

The decree for Máxima is also neutral on whether she should use “Princess Máxima” or “The Princess”

She was created HRH Princess Máxima of the Netherlands upon her marriage to Willem-Alexander. If not for her courtesy title her consort title would be HRH The Princess of the Netherlands like the male consorts’.

And I must correct my earlier reply to @meeralakshmi about Máxima’s surname (it is too late to edit it): As quoted above, the decree actually states that “(Princess) of Orange-Nassau” is legally a title for Máxima, not a surname.

Then it is indeed strange that the male consorts don’t receive that title.

But Máxima did lose her previous legal surname of Zorreguieta, so, strangely enough, she is probably now the only person in the Netherlands who does not have any legal surname of her own. At least she can use her husband's surname socially, if she needs to.

Her full title upon her marriage was HRH Princess Máxima of the Netherlands, Princess of Orange-Nassau, Mrs. van Amsberg. I would assume that her surname is the same as her husband’s, van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg.

 

[meeralakshmi]

If the UK, Denmark, and the Netherlands all do their own thing there's no reason Spain shouldn't be allowed to do their own thing as well

The Netherlands attempted to do their own thing with their female consorts by making them princess consorts in line with their male consorts being prince consorts (starting with Máxima) but found a loophole to make Máxima queen because the wives of the kings in other European monarchies had the title of queen consort. Monarchies shouldn’t have to be (and aren’t) the same, the Netherlands can be the Netherlands (make their consorts prince and princess consorts) and Spain can be Spain (make their consorts king and queen consorts). However prince/princess consorts should still receive the style of HM so they have equal rank and precedence to king/queen consorts, there have been examples of princesses curtsying to queen consorts but not prince consorts because an HRH is only required to bow/curtsy to an HM, not another HRH even if they’re a consort.

 

[meeralakshmi]

I'm glad you took something positive from my posts, even if we disagree on the issue of the title of the future husband (or wife, who knows?) of Leonor

Prior to the decree of 1987 it was clear what title a hypothetical wife of Leonor or any queen regnant would receive. Now it isn't; should the wife of a queen regnant be treated like the wife of a king or the husband of a queen?

The Consort Conundrum - what would you call the King's husband or the Queen's wife? - Royal Central

The debate about why Queen Camilla is regularly called The Queen Consort rather than just The Queen opens up another discussion. For in the past decade, the majority of European nations that have monarchies have...

royalcentral.co.uk

The Dutch monarchy said they would be accepting of Amalia having a wife. The way their system works the wife of a queen would probably be HRH The Princess of the Netherlands.

In the Netherlands the wife of a king is also HRH The Princess of the Netherlands, Máxima just has the courtesy title of HM Queen Máxima via her husband because they wanted her to match with the past Dutch female consorts and the other wives of kings. If male and female consorts have equal titles then there's no confusion about what to do when there's a same-sex consort (hopefully the next Dutch female consort is just HRH The Princess of the Netherlands unless they decide that male consorts should be king consorts).

hopefully the next Dutch female consort is just HRH The Princess of the Netherlands

Or HM The Princess of the Netherlands as I would prefer (and HM The Prince of the Netherlands for Dutch male consorts).

 

[Alondra]

meerlakshimi

Spain legalised homosexual marriage in 2005, the third country in the world to do so. Unlike many other countries in Europe, like France, it amended the Civil Code to make it equal to heterosexual couples under the law, including the right to adopt.

If Leonor marries a woman, her wife will be a princess of Spain. Not a queen.

 

[meeralakshmi]

meerlakshimi

Spain legalised homosexual marriage in 2005, the third country in the world to do so. Unlike many other countries in Europe, like France, it amended the Civil Code to make it equal to heterosexual couples under the law, including the right to adopt.

If Leonor marries a woman, her wife will be a princess of Spain. Not a queen.

In Spain the wife of a duchess is a duchess (see the Duchesses of Medina Sidonia) because of the way the Spanish system works. Therefore why shouldn’t the wife of a queen be a queen as the Spanish system intended? Prior to the 1987 decree this is what would have happened and again we can’t be sure if a queen’s wife will be treated the same as a queen’s husband or a king’s wife. Why exactly should a king’s wife be able to share his title but a queen’s spouse’s title needs to be below hers?

A hypothetical wife of Leonor will be Princess of Asturias as long as Leonor is which will lead the public to think that she’ll be queen consort when Leonor is queen. The same goes for Leonor’s potential husband.

 

[JR76]

I see, so was his title HRH The Prince of Sweden (like the prince consorts of the Netherlands) or HRH Prince Fredrik of Sweden?

Neither. He was His Royal Highness the Hereditary Prince of Hessen-Kassel.

 

[meeralakshmi]

Philip didn't have any actual power, William III on the other hand did (he was a co-ruler, not a consort). "The Act stated that King Philip would take part in governing Mary's realms while reserving most authority for Mary herself. The Act prohibited him from appointing foreigners to any offices, from taking his wife or any child that might be born to them outside her realm, or from claiming the crown for himself should he outlive his wife." Spain and Portugal had king consorts more recently than England who had no power of their own (like King Philip II of Spain).

Philip II of Spain and Ferdinand II of Portugal both remarried after their wives’ deaths. Their new wives did not become queen consorts of their late wives’ countries, the fourth wife of Philip II only became queen consort of Spain and the second wife of Ferdinand II was granted the title of Countess of Edla rather than Princess Ferdinand of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha due to the marriage being unequal.

 

[maria-olivia]

The best Consort who likes his job is Mr Radu Dadu , Prince of ?? Hohenzollern ????

 

[meeralakshmi]

The best Consort who likes his job is Mr Radu Dadu , Prince of ?? Hohenzollern ????

He is the titular prince consort of Romania but he was previously the prince of Hohenzollern-Veringen.

 

[meeralakshmi]

Not sure if this is used in other countries but I recall in Spain, as well as other Spanish speaking nations, history books or articles always use the word 'consort' to refer to the spouse of a monarch. As in Letizia, reina consorte (de Espana) / Letizia, queen consort (of Spain). I know I've seen consorte/consort always followed by the title in my language and not just for Spain but in reference to other nations, like queen Victoria's Alberto, principe consorte del Reino Unido / Albert, prince consort of the UK.

I assume Leonor's husband will carry in Spanish the 'consorte' after the title of prince as if it was part of the naming.

Even if Leonor’s spouse received the title of king/queen it would be clear they were a consort because they would be referred to as el rey consorte/la reina consorte.

 

[meeralakshmi]

Juan Carlos changed, with the decree to the title of prince to the consort of a queen regnant, something that as society most of us wanted, and was in line with many other monarchies in Europe like the British, Danish, Dutch.

It can't be said that the title of prince consort worked well for Denmark as Henrik was very clear about his displeasure with the title. On the other hand Francisco de Asís having the title of king consort caused no issues in Spain as he, the government, and the public knew it was his wife who was in charge. As has been mentioned before men using their wives' titles (and same-sex spouses using their spouses' titles following the legalization of same-sex marriage) has always been the norm in Spain which it isn't in the UK, Denmark, and the Netherlands.

Not every country is the UK. There are multiple monarchies where the husband of a queen regnant has been given the title of king (including England in the case of the husband of Mary I). Queen is the title of a female monarch and yet there's no hesitation about granting that title to a woman who marries a king, I don't see why king shouldn't be treated the same way. I don't think a consort is granted any lands or assets whether they're male or female, they aren't the one with power. Lately male consorts haven't been able to change the name of the royal house, it remains the same. It seems like you're confusing the title of king with the status of co-monarch when that very much isn't the case, a king consort is different from a king regnant (just like with queens).

In Portugal the husband of Queen Maria II was given the title of king consort after he fathered an heir but the surname of their children was still Braganza (the husband of the other queen regnant was also a Braganza so he obviously wouldn't have been able to change the name of the royal house).

 

[meeralakshmi]

In Monaco the husband of the female heir/monarch is permitted to use his wife’s title somewhat. The husband of Hereditary Princess Charlotte was permitted to use her title of Duchess of Valentinois jure uxoris though he wasn’t made hereditary prince. Jacques on the other hand was made a prince of Monaco in his own right like Pierre but was also made Duke of Valentinois in his own right because at the time the title could only be held by a male. As consort he was styled HSH The Prince Consort of Monaco which technically isn’t a lesser title than the female consorts receive because their position is princess consort of Monaco. It’s therefore comparable to Camilla initially being styled as HM The Queen Consort. However the princess consorts are styled as HSH The Princess of Monaco which is the same title held by a princess regnant so one could argue that the male consorts do indeed have a lesser title than the female consorts.

In Luxembourg the husband of the female heir/monarch isn’t permitted to share her title like the wife of the male heir/monarch is but he is permitted to share her style. I know that every male-line descendant of Prince Consort Felix has the style of HRH due to Felix’s birth title of HRH Prince Felix of Bourbon-Parma but the husband of a hereditary grand duchess in her own right receives the title of HRH Prince X of Luxembourg and the husband of a grand duchess in her own right receives the title of HRH The Prince Consort of Luxembourg regardless of whether the man was an HRH before marriage or not. If Felix hadn’t been an HRH in his own right then only the monarch, heir, and their spouses would be HRH while everyone else would be His/Her Grand Ducal Highness. I assume that this is the system Luxembourg will return to following the next grand duchess regnant if her husband isn’t an HRH and/or HIH in his own right. Because a male consort in Luxembourg can share his wife’s style without sharing her title it wouldn’t be unprecedented for prince consorts of kingdoms to share their wives’ style of HM which I think monarchies should allow if they don’t want to make their male consorts kings. In this day and age there is no reason why a king’s wife should be an HM while a queen’s husband is a mere HRH. There is no reason to treat female leaders as lesser than male ones.