Title & Role of a Consort

[meeralakshmi]

I think this is a more reliable source: Fredrik’s proclamation as reigning king in 1720 refers to the titles he held up to that moment (as Queen Ulrika Eleonora’s consort):

Hennes Kongl. Maj:ts högtälskelige gemål, den durchleuchtigste furste Friedrich, arfprins till Hessen, furste till Hirschfeldt, grefve till Catzen-Ellenbogen, Dietz, Ziegenheim, Nidda och Schaumburg &c.
This could roughly be translated as:

Her Royal Majesty’s Well-Beloved Consort, the Most Serene Highness Prince Friedrich, Hereditary Prince to Hesse, Prince to Hirschfeldt, Count to Catzen-Ellenbogen, Dietz, Ziegenheim, Nidda and Schaumburg &c.

Regeringsform 1720 - Wikisource

sv.wikisource.org

This is the translation that came up for me: Her Royal Majesty's most esteemed consort, the most radiant Prince Frederick, Hereditary Prince of Hesse, Prince of Hirschfeldt, Count of Catzen-Ellenbogen, Dietz, Ziegenheim, Nidda and Schaumburg &c.

Probably because the word "consort=gemål" is not commonly used in Swedish, especially today since it has a very old fashion vibe to it. The word doesn't elevate the Prince title in any way, only making it sound a bit silly imo.
As I've tried to explain before, it's not always possible to take an English word and translate it and it will magically take on the same meaning.

I see, however he had the explicit position of prince consort like the prince consorts of the Netherlands and unlike Philip and Henrik (for most of his tenure).

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I see, however he had the explicit position of prince consort like the prince consorts of the Netherlands and unlike Philip and Henrik (for most of his tenure).

I would say Philip and Henrik always had the explicit position of prince consort. While they were not treated precisely like queens consort or kings consort, they were still consistently treated as very senior royals, weren’t they?

This is the translation that came up for me: Her Royal Majesty's most esteemed consort, the most radiant Prince Frederick, Hereditary Prince of Hesse, Prince of Hirschfeldt, Count of Catzen-Ellenbogen, Dietz, Ziegenheim, Nidda and Schaumburg &c.

“Radiant” is a much better translation of the meaning of the German predicate Durchlaucht (and thus “Most Radiant” is for Durchlauchtigste), but for some historical reason, it is conventionally translated into English as Serene Highness.

That is the case for the Princely House of Liechtenstein, whose members are addressed as Durchlaucht in German and Serene Highness in English. (Please excuse the brief off-topic comment.)

 

[meeralakshmi]

I would say Philip and Henrik always had the explicit position of prince consort. While they were not treated precisely like queens consort or kings consort, they were still consistently treated as very senior royals, weren’t they?

Correct, I just meant that Philip's position was never specified as prince consort (only Albert's was) and Henrik's wasn't for many years. On the other hand the prince consorts of the Netherlands and Luxembourg had their positions specified as prince consort from the start.

 

[Silverpot]

I see, however he had the explicit position of prince consort like the prince consorts of the Netherlands and unlike Philip and Henrik (for most of his tenure).

But there is no such position in Sweden, putting the word "consort" after Prince doesn't make it any higher, since "gemål" just means spouse. But yes, he undoubtedly was the husband of the Queen R., you're right about that.

 

[meeralakshmi]

Correct, I just meant that Philip's position was never specified as prince consort (only Albert's was) and Henrik's wasn't for many years. On the other hand the prince consorts of the Netherlands and Luxembourg had their positions specified as prince consort from the start.

Tonga is another existing monarchy that explicitly had a prince consort. If a consort's position is ever not specified as X consort Wikipedia lists their position as "consort of the X monarch."

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Tonga is another existing monarchy that explicitly had a prince consort. If a consort's position is ever not specified as X consort Wikipedia lists their position as "consort of the X monarch."

Could you explain what you mean by "explicitly" being / having the position of prince consort? Perhaps you, I and Silverpot are talking at cross-purposes. I don't think you mean bearing the title of "Prince Consort", since Fredrik I never had that according to more reliable Swedish sources. But I also don't think you mean simply being married to the queen, since Philip and Henrik were undoubtedly recognized as legally married throughout their wives' reigns. Are you referring to a certain rank and precedence?

 

[meeralakshmi]

Could you explain what you mean by "explicitly" being / having the position of prince consort? Perhaps you, I and Silverpot are talking at cross-purposes. I don't think you mean bearing the title of "Prince Consort", since Fredrik I never had that according to more reliable Swedish sources. But I also don't think you mean simply being married to the queen, since Philip and Henrik were undoubtedly recognized as legally married throughout their wives' reigns. Are you referring to a certain rank and precedence?

The explicit rank of prince consort, yes. That doesn't always equate to the title of prince consort (see the prince consorts of the Netherlands).

 

[Tatiana Maria]

The explicit rank of prince consort, yes. That doesn't always equate to the title of prince consort (see the prince consorts of the Netherlands).

Thanks for clarifying. Philip of the UK and Henrik of Denmark were ranked immediately after Queens Elizabeth II and Margrethe II in their orders of precedence, though I'm not sure if they were granted that rank at the very beginning of their wives' reigns or subsequently.

 

[meeralakshmi]

Thanks for clarifying. Philip of the UK and Henrik of Denmark were ranked immediately after Queens Elizabeth II and Margrethe II in their orders of precedence, though I'm not sure if they were granted that rank at the very beginning of their wives' reigns or subsequently.

However Wikipedia doesn’t list the position of Lilian, Princess of Réthy as princess consort of Belgium (only consort of the Belgian monarch) whereas the position of Princess Muna Al Hussein is listed as princess consort of Jordan. Similarly the position of the three prince consorts of the Netherlands is listed as prince consort of the Netherlands whereas Philip and Henrik’s positions are listed as “consort of the British monarch” and “consort of the Danish monarch.”

 

[Tatiana Maria]

However Wikipedia doesn’t list the position of Lilian, Princess of Réthy as princess consort of Belgium (only consort of the Belgian monarch) whereas the position of Princess Muna Al Hussein is listed as princess consort of Jordan. Similarly the position of the three prince consorts of the Netherlands is listed as prince consort of the Netherlands whereas Philip and Henrik’s positions are listed as “consort of the British monarch” and “consort of the Danish monarch.”

Then Wikipedia's writing style is inconsistent (not surprising, I suppose, given that many people edit it), as I can't think of any practical difference between the consort positions of Henrik or Philip versus the Dutch queens' husbands, and Henrik was the only one of them who ever held the title of "Prince Consort".

 

[meeralakshmi]

Then Wikipedia's writing style is inconsistent (not surprising, I suppose, given that many people edit it), as I can't think of any practical difference between the consort positions of Henrik or Philip versus the Dutch queens' husbands, and Henrik was the only one of them who ever held the title of "Prince Consort".

I suppose it’s based on having a specific consort title (such as HRH The Prince of the Netherlands or HRH The Prince Consort of Luxembourg). While Henrik’s consort title was initially HRH The Prince of Denmark English sources don’t list it as that and Philip’s title also didn’t relate to his position as consort.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I suppose it’s based on having a specific consort title (such as HRH The Prince of the Netherlands or HRH The Prince Consort of Luxembourg). While Henrik’s consort title was initially HRH The Prince of Denmark English sources don’t list it as that and Philip’s title also didn’t relate to his position as consort.

Interestingly, the Royal House of Denmark used the title “HRH the Prince Consort” for Henrik in English even before he became “HKH Prinsgemalen” in Danish. See his archived official biography here:

The Danish Monarchy - The Royal Family - HRH The Prince Consort

web.archive.org

In my experience, English-language media and social media generally refer to Henrik, the Dutch husbands, and sometimes even Philip as plain “Prince Henrik”, “Prince Claus”, etc. irrespective of their official title at the time. Which is fine for informal journalism.

However, if a source uses Bernhard’s official title The Prince of the Netherlands but nevertheless calls Henrik plain Prince Henrik of Denmark during the period of 1972-2016, then that source failed to conduct their basic research.

 

[meeralakshmi]

Interestingly, the Royal House of Denmark used the title “HRH the Prince Consort” for Henrik in English even before he became “HKH Prinsgemalen” in Danish. See his archived official biography here:

The Danish Monarchy - The Royal Family - HRH The Prince Consort

web.archive.org

In my experience, English-language media and social media generally refer to Henrik, the Dutch husbands, and sometimes even Philip as plain “Prince Henrik”, “Prince Claus”, etc. irrespective of their official title at the time. Which is fine for informal journalism.

However, if a source uses Bernhard’s official title The Prince of the Netherlands but nevertheless calls Henrik plain Prince Henrik of Denmark during the period of 1972-2016, then that source failed to conduct their basic research.

English sources state that Henrik was HRH Prince Henrik of Denmark from 1967-2005 and 2016-2018 and HRH The Prince Consort of Denmark from 2005-2016.

Interestingly, the Royal House of Denmark used the title “HRH the Prince Consort” for Henrik in English even before he became “HKH Prinsgemalen” in Danish. See his archived official biography here:

The Danish Monarchy - The Royal Family - HRH The Prince Consort

web.archive.org

Oh wow that's interesting.

 

[Somebody]

Prince Claus was (by his own request) never 'ZKH De Prins der Nederlanden' (unlike his father-in-law, who used that title during his wife's reign; but if I'm not mistaken following the precedent set by the first male consort, prince Hendrik). From the day of his marriage until his death he remained "Zijne Koninklijke Hoogheid Prins Claus George Willem Otto Frederik Geert der Nederlanden, Jonkheer van Amsberg".

See here for the Decree on Claus's title after marriage
Bernhard's decree elevating him to royal highness and prince of the Netherlands
Decree for Hendrik's title after marriage

Interestingly, only in the decree for Claus provisions were made for the surname of any potential children that might be born from the marriage. The others only dealt with the (elevated) style and title of 'prince of the Netherlands' upon marriage the (future) queen.

 

[meeralakshmi]

Prince Claus was (by his own request) never 'ZKH De Prins der Nederlanden' (unlike his father-in-law, who used that title during his wife's reign; but if I'm not mistaken following the precedent set by the first male consort, prince Hendrik). From the day of his marriage until his death he remained "Zijne Koninklijke Hoogheid Prins Claus George Willem Otto Frederik Geert der Nederlanden, Jonkheer van Amsberg".

See here for the Decree on Claus's title after marriage
Bernhard's decree elevating him to royal highness and prince of the Netherlands
Decree for Hendrik's title after marriage

Interestingly, only in the decree for Claus provisions were made for the surname of any potential children that might be born from the marriage. The others only dealt with the (elevated) style and title of 'prince of the Netherlands' upon marriage the (future) queen.

He would have been made HRH Prince Claus of the Netherlands upon their wedding because Beatrix wasn’t yet queen. Was anything stated about his title after Beatrix became queen? English sources say that he did indeed become HRH The Prince of the Netherlands when Beatrix became queen but chose not to use the title out of respect for his FIL.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

The legal title granted to Henrik at marriage (when his wife was already queen) was identical to the legal title granted to Bernhard and Claus at marriage (when their wives were still crown princesses): Prince of the Netherlands.

Hence, identical wording was used for the conferrals in Henrik and Bernhard’s Royal Decrees (linked in @Somebody’s post above):

Henrik:

na de voltrekking van het huwelijk van Onze beminde Dochter Prinses Juliana der Nederlanden met Zijne Doorluchtige Hoogheid Prins Bernhard Leopold Frederik Everhard Julius Coert Karel Godfried Pieter van Lippe-Biesterfeld aan Zijne Doorluchtige Hoogheid te verleenen den titel van Prins der Nederlanden, met het praedicaat van Koninklijke Hoogheid.

Bernhard:

na de voltrekking van het huwelijk van Onze beminde Dochter Prinses Juliana der Nederlanden met Zijne Doorluchtige Hoogheid Prins Bernhard Leopold Frederik Everhard Julius Coert Karel Godfried Pieter van Lippe-Biesterfeld aan Zijne Doorluchtige Hoogheid te verleenen den titel van Prins der Nederlanden, met het praedicaat van Koninklijke Hoogheid.​

The difference between “The Prince of the Netherlands” and “Prince (name) of the Netherlands” is simply a matter of social usage. Henrik and Bernhard chose to use “The Prince of the Netherlands” while their wives were Queens; Claus chose not to.

From the official Royal House website:

Claus von Amsberg is bij zijn huwelijk de titel Prins der Nederlanden verleend. Tegelijk werd het Duitse adelspredicaat 'von' gewijzigd in 'jonkheer van'. Hij heeft na de troonsbestijging van Koningin Beatrix afgezien van de titel 'De Prins der Nederlanden' zoals zijn schoonvader Prins Bernhard die gevoerd heeft.

Translation:

Prince Claus was conferred with the title Prince of the Netherlands on his marriage. At the same time, the German noble predicate “von” was changed to “jonkheer of”. Upon Queen Beatrix’s accession to the throne, he refused the title “The Prince of the Netherlands” which his father-in-law Prince Bernhard had borne.​

Titels

De leden van de Koninklijke Familie kunnen verschillende titels of familienamen hebben. Van de aangetrouwde leden van de Koninklijke Familie zijn alleen aan Prinses Máxima titels verleend.

web.archive.org

 

[meeralakshmi]

The legal title granted to Henrik at marriage (when his wife was already queen) was identical to the legal title granted to Bernhard and Claus at marriage (when their wives were still crown princesses): Prince of the Netherlands.

Hence, identical wording was used for the conferrals in Henrik and Bernhard’s Royal Decrees (linked in @Somebody’s post above):

Henrik:​

​

na de voltrekking van het huwelijk van Onze beminde Dochter Prinses Juliana der Nederlanden met Zijne Doorluchtige Hoogheid Prins Bernhard Leopold Frederik Everhard Julius Coert Karel Godfried Pieter van Lippe-Biesterfeld aan Zijne Doorluchtige Hoogheid te verleenen den titel van Prins der Nederlanden, met het praedicaat van Koninklijke Hoogheid.​

​

Bernhard:​

​

na de voltrekking van het huwelijk van Onze beminde Dochter Prinses Juliana der Nederlanden met Zijne Doorluchtige Hoogheid Prins Bernhard Leopold Frederik Everhard Julius Coert Karel Godfried Pieter van Lippe-Biesterfeld aan Zijne Doorluchtige Hoogheid te verleenen den titel van Prins der Nederlanden, met het praedicaat van Koninklijke Hoogheid.​

The difference between “The Prince of the Netherlands” and “Prince (name) of the Netherlands” is simply a matter of social usage. Henrik and Bernhard chose to use “The Prince of the Netherlands” while their wives were Queens; Claus chose not to.

From the official Royal House website:

Claus von Amsberg is bij zijn huwelijk de titel Prins der Nederlanden verleend. Tegelijk werd het Duitse adelspredicaat 'von' gewijzigd in 'jonkheer van'. Hij heeft na de troonsbestijging van Koningin Beatrix afgezien van de titel 'De Prins der Nederlanden' zoals zijn schoonvader Prins Bernhard die gevoerd heeft.​

​

Translation:​

​

Prince Claus was conferred with the title Prince of the Netherlands on his marriage. At the same time, the German noble predicate “von” was changed to “jonkheer of”. Upon Queen Beatrix’s accession to the throne, he refused the title “The Prince of the Netherlands” which his father-in-law Prince Bernhard had borne.​

Titels

De leden van de Koninklijke Familie kunnen verschillende titels of familienamen hebben. Van de aangetrouwde leden van de Koninklijke Familie zijn alleen aan Prinses Máxima titels verleend.

web.archive.org

Hendrik is the Dutch spelling btw.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Hendrik is the Dutch spelling btw.

Apologies, that's the second time in days I've misspelled a famous Dutch person's name. I wish it were still possible to edit posts for 24 hours.

 

[Stefan]

The legal title granted to Henrik at marriage (when his wife was already queen) was identical to the legal title granted to Bernhard and Claus at marriage (when their wives were still crown princesses): Prince of the Netherlands.

Hence, identical wording was used for the conferrals in Henrik and Bernhard’s Royal Decrees (linked in @Somebody’s post above):

Henrik:​

​

na de voltrekking van het huwelijk van Onze beminde Dochter Prinses Juliana der Nederlanden met Zijne Doorluchtige Hoogheid Prins Bernhard Leopold Frederik Everhard Julius Coert Karel Godfried Pieter van Lippe-Biesterfeld aan Zijne Doorluchtige Hoogheid te verleenen den titel van Prins der Nederlanden, met het praedicaat van Koninklijke Hoogheid.​

​

Bernhard:​

​

na de voltrekking van het huwelijk van Onze beminde Dochter Prinses Juliana der Nederlanden met Zijne Doorluchtige Hoogheid Prins Bernhard Leopold Frederik Everhard Julius Coert Karel Godfried Pieter van Lippe-Biesterfeld aan Zijne Doorluchtige Hoogheid te verleenen den titel van Prins der Nederlanden, met het praedicaat van Koninklijke Hoogheid.​

The difference between “The Prince of the Netherlands” and “Prince (name) of the Netherlands” is simply a matter of social usage. Henrik and Bernhard chose to use “The Prince of the Netherlands” while their wives were Queens; Claus chose not to.

What i always wondered. The male spouses of future Queens was always only granted the Title Prince of theNetherlands. Not Prince of Orange Nassau.
However in 2001 Máxima was made Princess of the Netherlands and Princess of Orange-Nassau. Wonder why differences were made between male and female spouses.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

What i always wondered. The male spouses of future Queens was always only granted the Title Prince of theNetherlands. Not Prince of Orange Nassau.
However in 2001 Máxima was made Princess of the Netherlands and Princess of Orange-Nassau. Wonder why differences were made between male and female spouses.

The male consorts retained their original surnames. Máxima lost her original surname Zorreguieta and thus needed a new surname. In the Dutch legal system, the "Princess" in "Princess of Orange-Nassau" is regarded as a title, but the "of Orange-Nassau" in "Princess of Orange-Nassau" is regarded as a surname. Thus, Maxima’s legal surname is now “of Orange-Nassau” (“van Oranje-Nassau” in Dutch).

(An exception was made for Princess Margriet's children. For them, "of Orange-Nassau" legally belongs to their title, rather than their surname.)

The then government was asked by MPs why Máxima would be losing the surname Zorreguieta. They did not give a clear answer, only saying that Máxima was consulted in the decision.

Ook de leden van de D66-fractie vroegen of er sprake is van een bewuste keuze van de regering om Máxima na haar huwelijk niet langer tevens haar familienaam Zorreguieta te laten voeren. Zij vroegen of die keuze nader kan worden toegelicht.

De regering verwijst naar hetgeen hierover in de memorie van toelichting is opgenomen. Na overleg met betrokkene is de keuze gemaakt dat zij wordt aangesproken en zichzelf aanduidt met de titels en namen die daarin zijn genoemd.​

So we can only speculate as to the reasons, but it may simply be that women traditionally take their husbands’ surnames and not the other way around in the Netherlands (although in modern times, Dutch women legally keep their surname even if they use their husband’s surname).

 

[Somebody]

The legal title granted to Henrik at marriage (when his wife was already queen) was identical to the legal title granted to Bernhard and Claus at marriage (when their wives were still crown princesses): Prince of the Netherlands.

Hence, identical wording was used for the conferrals in Henrik and Bernhard’s Royal Decrees (linked in @Somebody’s post above):

Henrik:​

​

na de voltrekking van het huwelijk van Onze beminde Dochter Prinses Juliana der Nederlanden met Zijne Doorluchtige Hoogheid Prins Bernhard Leopold Frederik Everhard Julius Coert Karel Godfried Pieter van Lippe-Biesterfeld aan Zijne Doorluchtige Hoogheid te verleenen den titel van Prins der Nederlanden, met het praedicaat van Koninklijke Hoogheid.​

​

Bernhard:​

​

na de voltrekking van het huwelijk van Onze beminde Dochter Prinses Juliana der Nederlanden met Zijne Doorluchtige Hoogheid Prins Bernhard Leopold Frederik Everhard Julius Coert Karel Godfried Pieter van Lippe-Biesterfeld aan Zijne Doorluchtige Hoogheid te verleenen den titel van Prins der Nederlanden, met het praedicaat van Koninklijke Hoogheid.​

The difference between “The Prince of the Netherlands” and “Prince (name) of the Netherlands” is simply a matter of social usage. Henrik and Bernhard chose to use “The Prince of the Netherlands” while their wives were Queens; Claus chose not to.

From the official Royal House website:

Claus von Amsberg is bij zijn huwelijk de titel Prins der Nederlanden verleend. Tegelijk werd het Duitse adelspredicaat 'von' gewijzigd in 'jonkheer van'. Hij heeft na de troonsbestijging van Koningin Beatrix afgezien van de titel 'De Prins der Nederlanden' zoals zijn schoonvader Prins Bernhard die gevoerd heeft.​

​

Translation:​

​

Prince Claus was conferred with the title Prince of the Netherlands on his marriage. At the same time, the German noble predicate “von” was changed to “jonkheer of”. Upon Queen Beatrix’s accession to the throne, he refused the title “The Prince of the Netherlands” which his father-in-law Prince Bernhard had borne.​

Titels

De leden van de Koninklijke Familie kunnen verschillende titels of familienamen hebben. Van de aangetrouwde leden van de Koninklijke Familie zijn alleen aan Prinses Máxima titels verleend.

web.archive.org

All three were HRH prince (names) of the Netherlands. In the case of Hendrik and Bernhard they were the only princes of the Netherlands at that time. This changed when Beatrix got married and even more were added when Willem-Alexander and his brothers) were born as they were princes of the Netherlands from birth! Claus was never the one and only prince of the Netherlands. Nonetheless, even when there were other princes of the Netherlands, Bernhard continued to present himself as THE prince.

 

[meeralakshmi]

The male consorts retained their original surnames. Máxima lost her original surname Zorreguieta and thus needed a new surname. In the Dutch legal system, the "Princess" in "Princess of Orange-Nassau" is regarded as a title, but the "of Orange-Nassau" in "Princess of Orange-Nassau" is regarded as a surname. Thus, Maxima’s legal surname is now “of Orange-Nassau” (“van Oranje-Nassau” in Dutch).

(An exception was made for Princess Margriet's children. For them, "of Orange-Nassau" legally belongs to their title, rather than their surname.)

The then government was asked by MPs why Máxima would be losing the surname Zorreguieta. They did not give a clear answer, only saying that Máxima was consulted in the decision.

Ook de leden van de D66-fractie vroegen of er sprake is van een bewuste keuze van de regering om Máxima na haar huwelijk niet langer tevens haar familienaam Zorreguieta te laten voeren. Zij vroegen of die keuze nader kan worden toegelicht.​

​

De regering verwijst naar hetgeen hierover in de memorie van toelichting is opgenomen. Na overleg met betrokkene is de keuze gemaakt dat zij wordt aangesproken en zichzelf aanduidt met de titels en namen die daarin zijn genoemd.​

So we can only speculate as to the reasons, but it may simply be that women traditionally take their husbands’ surnames and not the other way around in the Netherlands (although in modern times, Dutch women legally keep their surname even if they use their husband’s surname).

Is this also why male consorts in Luxembourg don't receive the title of prince of Nassau?

 

[Tatiana Maria]

All three were HRH prince (names) of the Netherlands. In the case of Hendrik and Bernhard they were the only princes of the Netherlands at that time. This changed when Beatrix got married and even more were added when Willem-Alexander and his brothers) were born as they were princes of the Netherlands from birth! Claus was never the one and only prince of the Netherlands. Nonetheless, even when there were other princes of the Netherlands, Bernhard continued to present himself as THE prince.

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. Are you saying that Bernhard styled himself The Prince of the Netherlands (as the official website acknowledged he did) without permission? And what about Hendrik?

 

[meeralakshmi]

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. Are you saying that Bernhard styled himself The Prince of the Netherlands (as the official website acknowledged he did) without permission? And what about Hendrik?

Yeah HRH The Prince of the Netherlands is the title given to Dutch prince consorts. Máxima’s official title is HRH The Princess of the Netherlands as the Netherlands attempted to also start making their female consorts princess consorts but then they decided that Máxima should receive the courtesy title of HM Queen Máxima from her husband.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Is this also why male consorts in Luxembourg don't receive the title of prince of Nassau?

I suspect that was Grand Duke Henri’s reasoning, yes. The house law he promulgated in 2012 illustrates that he is a firm believer in patriarchal naming conventions.

For example, the house law requires all wives of Princes of Luxembourg, Princes of Nassau and Counts of Nassau to legally adopt their husbands’ surnames and completely lose their maiden names. This even though under Luxembourg’s civil laws, most wives keep their maiden names on paper and only use their husbands’ surnames unofficially.

Legilux

legilux.public.lu

So Grand Duke Henri's decision that under his new house law, future husbands of Grand Duchesses regnant will not take the surname “of Nassau” or the title “Duke/Prince of Nassau” (Grand Duke Jean decided in 1986 to separate the surname from the title) is consistent with that principle.

 

[meeralakshmi]

All three were HRH prince (names) of the Netherlands. In the case of Hendrik and Bernhard they were the only princes of the Netherlands at that time. This changed when Beatrix got married and even more were added when Willem-Alexander and his brothers) were born as they were princes of the Netherlands from birth! Claus was never the one and only prince of the Netherlands. Nonetheless, even when there were other princes of the Netherlands, Bernhard continued to present himself as THE prince.

HRH The Prince of the Netherlands is the title given to Dutch prince consorts. When their wives abdicate they revert to HRH Prince (name) of the Netherlands and their wives revert to their princess titles. If Máxima didn’t have the courtesy title of HM Queen Máxima from her husband she would be HRH The Princess of the Netherlands.

(Grand Duke Jean decided in 1986 to separate the surname from the title)

What does this mean? Doesn’t separating the surname from the title mean that the title prince of Nassau doesn’t equal the surname de Nassau?

 

[Tatiana Maria]

What does this mean? Doesn’t separating the surname from the title mean that the title prince of Nassau doesn’t equal the surname de Nassau?

That's right. Henri's 2012 house law indicates that unlike wives, husbands (even husbands of Grand Duchesses) will neither share their wife's surname "of Nassau" nor share their wife's title of Duchess of Nassau/Hereditary Princess of Nassau/Princess of Nassau. So the husbands will not share the name/title of Nassau in any form.

 

[meeralakshmi]

That's right. Henri's 2012 house law indicates that unlike wives, husbands (even husbands of Grand Duchesses) will neither share their wife's surname "of Nassau" nor share their wife's title of Duchess of Nassau/Hereditary Princess of Nassau/Princess of Nassau. So the husbands will not share the name/title of Nassau in any form.

Isn’t that not separating the surname from the title then? Unless he meant that the title prince/princess of Luxembourg is separate from the surname de Nassau.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Isn’t that not separating the surname from the title then? Unless he meant that the title prince/princess of Luxembourg is separate from the surname de Nassau.

I'll explain in more detail later in the Luxembourg titles thread.

 

[Somebody]

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. Are you saying that Bernhard styled himself The Prince of the Netherlands (as the official website acknowledged he did) without permission? And what about Hendrik?

I didn’t intend to say anything about permission. I assume their wives were ok with it but the decrees themselves -as linked above- didn’t give them the title ‘the prince of the Netherlands’ but created them HRH prince ‘name’ of the Netherlands. The same title that children born to a monarch or heir in the Netherlands have (or in female version - again just like Máxima).

What i always wondered. The male spouses of future Queens was always only granted the Title Prince of theNetherlands. Not Prince of Orange Nassau.
However in 2001 Máxima was made Princess of the Netherlands and Princess of Orange-Nassau. Wonder why differences were made between male and female spouses.

Good point! Maybe the difference was not (only) about male and female but about Wilhelmina, Juliana and Beatrix marrying titled husbands (or whose informal title was upgraded to a recognized Dutch title), while Máxima had no title at all?

In addition, the current policy seems to be that the main line will only keep ‘Orange-Nassau’ next to being princes of the Netherlands. While the other line may pass on other titles introduced by titled spouses (jonkheer/jonkvrouw van Amsberg for Claus’ grandchildren by his two younger sons).