The Sovereign and the Church of England

[Lilyflo]

I don't think it matters if William isn't a believer, as long as he keeps his beliefs private and carries out all the necessary C of E duties when he's King.

 

[King of the Jungle]

Many younger people don't go to church as regularly as their parents though they are still believers in Christianity and like seeing a church nearby.

No one knows the extent of anyone's inner beliefs. All are varied and possibly few exactly the same.

We see Catherine and William attending quite a few C of E services through out the year and some with their children.
I see that as positive and respectful and boding well for the future.

 

[Somebody]

Many younger people don't go to church as regularly as their parents though they are still believers in Christianity and like seeing a church nearby.

No one knows the extent of anyone's inner beliefs. All are varied and possibly few exactly the same.

We see Catherine and William attending quite a few C of E services through out the year and some with their children.
I see that as positive and respectful and boding well for the future.

However, unlike his father or grandmother, this is not part of their personal practice but always as members of the larger royal family. At least, I don't recall any personal attendance of a church service.

The fact that Catherine only got confirmed just before she married William suggests that she herself didn't consider herself a Christian or that it was in any way important to her.

 

[Denville]

However, unlike his father or grandmother, this is not part of their personal routine but always as members of the larger royal family. At least, I don't recall any personal attendance of a church service.

The fact that Catherine only got confirmed just before she married William suggests that she herself didn't consider herself a Christian or that it was in any way important to her.

She was baptised, why sould she not consider herself a Christian?

 

[Somebody]

She was baptised, why sould she not consider herself a Christian?

Because the way to confirm your baptism once you've come of age and can take responsibility for your own views in life is 'Confirmation'. She never bothered to personally confess her faith until she 'had to' when marrying William (of course, I understand it wasn't a law but it was definitely expected and something that apparently needed 'fixing' before their marriage).

In Dutch, she would most likely call herself 'christelijk' (part of the christian sub-culture) but not 'christen' (someone who beliefs the teachings of the bible/church and has a personal relationship with God).

 

[Saragli]

It is not surprising that the younger generation may not view themselves as being religious. I don't really find it much of an issue as I personally believe that the CoE will undergo some form of disestablishment in this, or the next reign, and the head of state will no longer be the head of the state religion.

 

[Denville]

But she's not Dutch. SHe was baptised, and brought up with a certain set of values, and she has not renounced her membership of the C of E.

 

[Somebody]

But she's not Dutch. SHe was baptised, and brought up with a certain set of values, and she has not renounced her membership of the C of E.

I understand that she isn't Dutch - but sometimes languages have ways to express something that other languages don't. In this case, William and Catherine are culturally christians but so far I have seen no evidence that they are also 'believers'.

Whether that is a problem or not given that William is expected to become the future Head of the Church of England will most likely be answered differently by different people. So far, they have indeed shown that they are willing to participate in church-related royal activities; and unlike Harry at least not publicly stated that they are 'not religious'. So, there aren't any 'practical' problems.

 

[Denville]

English people are not very RELIGIIOUS per se. It does not mean that they don't have beliefs, and they may keep a lot of it private.... Its different in other cultures.... but Im sure Kate's home taught her Christian values and she was baptised, even if there was a social element in that.

 

[Sunnystar]

Honestly, I doubt the paps are going to snap pics of the Wales family attending church. It may be something neither Will nor Kate felt strongly about doing while they were in their twenties, but once they had children they became, quietly, more observant about. We've heard they have a close relationship with Edward & Sophie, who are known to be faithful, so it's entirely possible that the Wales', like the Wessexes, just quietly go about their way with going to church and teaching their children about the Christian faith.

 

[Somebody]

I just came across the notion that the UK government is involved in picking the new Archbishop of Canterbury. Would that be because the PM has to stand in for the monarch's actions and therefore, as the Sovereign, is also the Supreme Commander of the Church of England, in daily practice the PM gets involved in a decision like this to avoid risking true involvement by the Sovereign himself - although it is considered an 'advice' to the monarch (but I assume it is an advice that the king is supposed to follow if he doesn't want to be in trouble)?

Wikipedia explains it as follows:

Today, the British prime minister is expected to advise the monarch regarding the appointment of the archbishop of Canterbury, with the prime minister in turn receiving a shortlist of two recommendations for the position from an ad hoc committee known as the Crown Nominations Commission.

It seems rather weird to have a Hindu not only read from scripture during a coronation but also being in charge of picking the next head of the Anglican worldwide community (if that happens during his tenure as PM).

 

[Ista]

I don't think it's any odder than having someone who is nominally a Christian but actually has no strong religious beliefs and never attends church doing it, and I suspect there have been a few of those.

 

[Somebody]

I don't think it's any odder than having someone who is nominally a Christian but actually has no strong religious beliefs and never attends church doing it, and I suspect there have been a few of those.

I agree that it is odd in general to have the PM of the UK involved in this decision - but I guess that's how it works when you have a state church (a concept I don't fully understand). However, in the case of a nominal Christian, they can at least maintain that the nomination is made by a member of the Church of England (recall that Tony Blair only joined the Roman Catholic church AFTER his tenure as PM) - even though in some cases it was widely known that the PM didn't follow/belief the church's teachings.

 

[Alison H]

The Crown Nominations Commission gives the Prime Minister a shortlist of two people, so it's not as if he or she is choosing from scratch, and I assume they take advice from people in the know before making the final decision. It's just the way it works.

 

[Saragli]

EXCLUSIVE Could Prince William be first monarch in five centuries NOT to be head of the Church of England? Future King isn't a regular churchgoer and 'is not instinctively comfortable in a faith environment'

Prince William could become the first British monarch in five centuries to break official ties with the Church of England.

There is already talk in royal circles as to whether the Prince of Wales will take the title of Supreme Governor of the Church of England when he eventually becomes king.

William greatly admires and respects the Church, and enjoys attending services at significant times of the year, such as Christmas and Easter.

I personally believe its long overdue for the relationship between the Church of England, the Sovereign, and the State to be examined and rearranged. I feel it would be best if it all happened together though. I support disestablishment, with the CoE no longer being the state religion and the sovereign no longer being Supreme Governor and Defender of the Faith, but I would like the CoE to be downgraded to a national church(similar to Scotland) that still holds a symbolic and historical place. That leaves the door open to continue with coronations/anointments and all the traditional services held at Westminster and St. Paul's.

How to go about disestablishment is tricky. I think KCIII and the parliament would have to get the ball rolling but official disestablishment wouldn't happen until the next reign before the monarch has sworn an oath to protect the CoE. Although I'm sure there is a legal loophole they could figure out.

 

[Alison H]

I think the whole idea of an Established Church has had its day. The majority of people of William's generation are not religious. Less than half the population described themselves as Christian in the 2021 census, and over half of those who did will be Catholic or other Protestant denominations. The C of E was disestablished in Wales over 100 years ago, so there are ways of doing it.

 

[An Ard Ri]

The Anglican /Church of Ireland was disestablished in 1869 in Ireland with the passing of the Irish Church Act 1869.
The status of the Established Church was ridiculous in Ireland as it only had a very small minority of the population as members.
Up until then Roman Catholics were forced to pay tithes to the Church of Ireland ,the passing of the Bill provoked the ire of Queen Victoria who was not all pleased!

 

[Luc122]

This does bring to mind the concerns shared by Charles, how can one represent a multidenominational society when showing devotion to one sect? Williams coronation will be an interesting one to watch

 

[Somebody]

Did Charles really use the word 'sect' to describe the established century-old denomination/church that he is the Supreme Commander of?

 

[An Ard Ri]

This does bring to mind the concerns shared by Charles, how can one represent a multidenominational society when showing devotion to one sect? Williams coronation will be an interesting one to watch

If the Church of England is disestablished during the current reign then there would be no requirement for a Coronation for William!

 

[HenRach Dominion]

Do you think that the monarch being the Head of the Church of England complicates their role as Head of State for a multidenominational population?

Recently, HM The King gave an Easter speech that acknowledged other belief systems, including Islam. Many people were upset because they thought that it was inappropriate to focus on other religions during an important religious holiday like Easter.

On one hand, I understand why people would want their (nominal) spiritual leader to focus solely on messages pertaining to Christianity in general and Anglicanism in particular. On the other hand, many religious leaders focus on secular topics (The Pope advocated for a ceasefire in Gaza right before he died), and ultimately, HM The King is not just the King of Anglican Christians, but other Protestants, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, Atheists, Agnostics, and any other believer or non-believer in his dominion.

HM The King has established before that he sees himself as the “Defender of Faith”. This, however, will draw the discomfort of good actors (bad actors should be outright ignored) who value his role as Head of the Church of England just as much as, if not more, than his role as Head of State. This discomfort will probably increase if HRH The Prince of Wales also develops a broader interpretation of “Defender of the Faith” publicly.

In my humble opinion, this awkwardness comes from the fact that the British monarch is both a secular head and a religious one. They are expected to remain neutral with regards to political topics, but when they publicly extend that neutrality to religious beliefs (as the Head of State of several countries with large non-Anglican populations), they cause friction with those who value the role of Head of the Church of England. If they particularly focus on Anglican Brits, however, they risk alienating large chunks of the people they represent.

So, is there a conflict with a British monarch holding both titles? Is this issue so minuscule that both titles can be held in spite of the awkwardness? What would be the best solution if the situation isn’t minuscule?

 

[Iluvbertie]

Charles is NOT the Head of the Church of England. The last monarch to hold that title was Mary I and she repealed that title.

Charles is The Supreme Governor of the Church of England. In earlier posts in this thread I explained why the difference when Elizabeth I had the Act of Uniformity passed early in her reign.

Charles is Defender of THE Faith. He said he wanted to be 'Defender of Faith' and was told that parliament, and his mother, wouldn't agree to passing the necessary legislation to change that title.

Charles acknowledged Ramadan but made no mention of Christians or Jews at that time but when acknowledging a Christian holiday had to bring other religions into that message. That is why his Christian subjects are upset - he clearly favours non-Christians over Christians.

 

[SLV]

Charles acknowledged Ramadan but made no mention of Christians or Jews at that time but when acknowledging a Christian holiday had to bring other religions into that message. That is why his Christian subjects are upset - he clearly favours non-Christians over Christians.

I highly doubt that. If he weekly attended the synagogues and mosques and not church, I would agree. But he doesn't.

 

[Hallo girl]

Charles is NOT the Head of the Church of England. The last monarch to hold that title was Mary I and she repealed that title.

Charles is The Supreme Governor of the Church of England. In earlier posts in this thread I explained why the difference when Elizabeth I had the Act of Uniformity passed early in her reign.

Charles is Defender of THE Faith. He said he wanted to be 'Defender of Faith' and was told that parliament, and his mother, wouldn't agree to passing the necessary legislation to change that title.

Charles acknowledged Ramadan but made no mention of Christians or Jews at that time but when acknowledging a Christian holiday had to bring other religions into that message. That is why his Christian subjects are upset - he clearly favours non-Christians over Christians.

He is also the King of a multi faith nation,