The Princess of Orange, News and Events Part 1: Dec 2021 - January 2024


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Marengo

Administrator
Site Team
Joined
Aug 13, 2004
Messages
27,455
City
São Paulo
Country
Brazil
attachment.php

Welcome to The Princess of Orange News and Events, Part 1

7 December, 2021​

The previous combined thread for the princess and her sisters can be found here

The thread about the Princess' 18th Birthday can be found here.


Please take a look at the
TRF Community Rules & FAQs

· Only pictures that you have written permission to share can be posted here. You can post links to any pictures.
· It's a copyright violation to post translations of entire articles, so no more than 20% of an article
text should be posted, along with the link to the original article.
· We expect our members to treat each other, and the royals and persons in these threads, with respect.
· The Report Post button is for reporting inappropriate content in a post if no moderators or administrators are online.
· Threads should remain on topic. Posts which are irrelevant or disruptive
will be deleted or moved by one of the moderators.

 
Last edited:
Last edited:
Aaaand so it starts.

The first of many young bachelors the mags will hook her up with.

She's seen X once = They are in love.

She's been seen talking to/dancing with/in the company of X = They are going steady.

She's been seen several times with X = Soon to be engaged!

She has actually been dating X = Wedding bells.
 
Last edited:
A German student is no surprise given her previous comments on how Germans were more 'gallant', treating women with more respect.

This guy attended boarding school in the USA (Stony Brook School) and participated in a Columbia Business School program.

The women of the Dutch Royal Family seem to like the German men. Heinrich of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (husband of Queen Whilermina), Prince Bernhard (husband of Queen Juliana), and Prince Claus (husband of Queen Beatrix) were Germans.
 
Last edited:
I don't think we can expect her to have found her life-long love already, but IMO marrying a foreigner may be a big advantage.
No Dutch relatives to make a spectacle of themselves. No uncle who is in the habit of doing and saying embarrassing things around the corner.
 
I'm not sure it's a question of 'respect', which could sound like Dutch guys treat women badly.

I think Amalia just meant in terms of manners, German boys are more courteous/formal/polite, which they almost certainly are and especially considering the ones she knows are all aristocrats or rich, or both. Compared to Dutch guys being more casual and offhand, Amalia's romantic nature probably does find it very appealing.
 
The women of the Dutch Royal Family seem to like the German men. Henry of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (husband of Queen Whilermina), Prince Bernhard (husband of Queen Juliana), and Prince Claus (husband of Queen Beatrix) were Germans.

Not really surprising. The nobility in Germany is much larger than in the Netherlands. And a 'foreign spouse' is helpful in many ways as Mühler already stated: queen Beatrix firmly believed in this policy (I don't think she expected her eldest son to find a foreign bride who still had a very troublesome background in terms of parents).

N.B. Queen Wilhelmina's husband was known as 'Hendrik' in the Netherlands and born as 'Heinrich' in Germany. He was not known by the English version of 'Henry'.
 
I'm not sure it's a question of 'respect', which could sound like Dutch guys treat women badly.

I think Amalia just meant in terms of manners, German boys are more courteous/formal/polite, which they almost certainly are and especially considering the ones she knows are all aristocrats or rich, or both. Compared to Dutch guys being more casual and offhand, Amalia's romantic nature probably does find it very appealing.

Yes, exactly. Couldn't find a better word in English for the Dutch version of being treated with 'egards' (a word that sounds like it is of French origin). She indeed referred to 'manners'; so 'courteous' would probably be closest.
 
No uncle who is in the habit of doing and saying embarrassing things around the corner.

No, because her mother is from Argentina and her grandfather was already "embarrassing" (more than) enough. :whistling:

I understand the Danish principle of royals marrying outside the village, but it's not like Germany is an ocean away from the Netherlands, even if oceans meant very much in the current media age.
 
Yes, but the in-laws are not Dutch, and that I strongly suspect matters more than you might think - and more than the Dutch themselves would like to admit, perhaps?

Just look at Sweden. There is still a certain degree of perhaps not animosity but perhaps less acceptance of Daniel, even though he has not put a foot wrong, never said anything stupid, carries out his duties faithfully and is a devoted husband and loving father. - But he is Swedish...

So IMO marrying outside the tribe is better.
 
Yes, but the in-laws are not Dutch, and that I strongly suspect matters more than you might think - and more than the Dutch themselves would like to admit, perhaps?

Just look at Sweden. There is still a certain degree of perhaps not animosity but perhaps less acceptance of Daniel, even though he has not put a foot wrong, never said anything stupid, carries out his duties faithfully and is a devoted husband and loving father. - But he is Swedish...

So IMO marrying outside the tribe is better.

Even if it means the government bars the in-law from the wedding? :ermm:

I think the situation in Sweden has more to do with sexism and a bit of classism than anything else. Daniel is still seen, somewhat, as not Vic's equal — even though the Westlings are generally seen as very nice, upstanding people and wonderful "normal" relatives for Estelle and Oscar. Sofia isn't viewed through the same lens wrt Carl Philip. At all.

So if you're saying the drama would have been taken down a notch had the families not been Swedish, maybe. But it's also true that being a male or female spouse also plays a large, large part.
 
IIRC there was some public animosity towards Prince Claus - because he was German. WWII still being an open wound.

So there will often be some controversy to be found.

But as you, very correctly point out in regards to Daniel, a Dutch commoner - and his family - may be less palatable to Dutch public than both Prince Claus and Queen Maxima's family.

I think Queen Mathilde of Belgium illustrates the point well. She's full nobility and therefore I suspect more acceptable for the Belgium public.

It is, I suppose, a kind of tribal snobbery.
 
Yes, but I also think Amalia's likely-male spouse will face the kind of difficulties that are Cinderella'd-away for married-in princesses. (Again, Sofia is Swedish. Not from any grander a background than Daniel's. Do people continue to look at her funny? Not really, not in Sweden, not off royal boards. I don't think so.)

Because the Netherlands likes to pride itself on being egalitarian, it might actually be worse if Amalia marries a prince or a nobleman instead of a humble commoner.
 
Carl-Phillip is not the heir.
And there sure were quite a lot of reservations against Sofia. - I being among those who had reservations. Fortunately I have been proven wrong.

It's a strange thing but other rules seems to apply for the heirs.

But if we are to look at successful stories of commoners marrying into royal families, look at the British.
The Middletons have, in contrast to the family Kate married into, remained free of scandals and serious controversy.
Yet, there was - and in some places still is (see: Kate still being referred to as "Middleton") quite some animosity towards Kate and her family.
 
CP is not the heir (anymore), but he's a working member of the royal family who is very much around. Madeleine has never been the heir and has decamped to the US, for which she gets criticism — but the Swedish media love to pick on wealthy foreigner Chris O'Neill even though he's not royal. You can say it's for taking Madeleine but I feel like they would do the same even if they lived in Sweden.

Catherine had some very nasty attention from both press and public, but nowadays I would say she's highly respected and continues to be viewed as a gorgeous clothes-wearer, and I feel like the positive view of her (and her sister who became a media darling) has always generally outnumbered the mean things. "Middleton" is simply in the tradition of referring to people by the same name under which they became famous, because no one is going to Google the Duchess of Cambridge.

I'm standing by my view that for sexist reasons, it's much harder to be a man who marries in. Fortunately Amalia's got some time to think about it.
 
I think Madeleine pulled a Joachim. - She is the declared "villain" in the SRF. There always has to be one...
Perhaps because she's too pretty?

She could have married a saint and it wouldn't make much of a difference, I fear.

I absolutely and totally agree with you that men marrying into a royal family is at an disadvantage. We can discuss endlessly as to why, but that will no doubt be a considerable problem for Amalia's future husband, or even sweetheart.
It will I predict be a lot easier for whoever her sisters date and marry.

Well, British media don't refer to foreign royals by their former surname.
It's a bit weird I think, and it confirms the tribal snobbery or perhaps middle class snobbery there were against the Middletons?
Foreign press (Non-English speaking at least) never refer to her as Catherine Middleton.
 
Yes, but I also think Amalia's likely-male spouse will face the kind of difficulties that are Cinderella'd-away for married-in princesses. (Again, Sofia is Swedish. Not from any grander a background than Daniel's. Do people continue to look at her funny? Not really, not in Sweden, not off royal boards. I don't think so.)

Because the Netherlands likes to pride itself on being egalitarian, it might actually be worse if Amalia marries a prince or a nobleman instead of a humble commoner.

The Netherlands are only egalitarian from the outside. There is really an elite in this country. There are the haves and there are the have-nots. The interesting thing is that despite all their progressive policies, the Netherlands has the one if the worst wealth inequalities in the world with a Gini Coefficient of 0.902. To better visualize this, consider the fact that the top 10% controls 60% of net wealth in all of the Netherlands.

It absolutely is one of the wealthiest countries in the world, the average income is one of the highest but the fortunes (the wealth, the possessions, the savings) are extremely unevenly distributed for what is dubbed as an "egalitarian" country. But but but... It is no Monte-Carlo, it is no Kensington & Chelsea, the Dutch elite is not so with showing off their "cribs" and prefer a normal Volvo over a flashy supercar, so to say.

When Princess Amalia engages with blue blood or not, most likely people could not care less. There is no way that a German nobleman would be less welcomed than the dude who is linked now to Amalia, whom seems to come from a very wealthy German family. My guess a Carl-Anton Erbprinz zu Waldeck und Pyrmont will equally be welcomed as a Herr Carl-Anton Schmidt.
 
Last edited:
The Netherlands are only egalitarian from the outside. There is really an elite in this country. There are the haves and there are the have-nots. The interesting thing is that despite all their progressive policies, the Netherlands has the one if the worst wealth inequalities in the world with a Gini Coefficient of 0.902. To better visualize this, consider the fact that the top 10% controls 60% of net wealth in all of the Netherlands.

It absolutely is one of the wealthiest countries in the world, the average income is one of the highest but the fortunes (the wealth, the possessions, the savings) are extremely unevenly distributed for what is dubbed as an "egalitarian" country. But but but... It is no Monte-Carlo, it is no Kensington & Chelsea, the Dutch elite is not so with showing off their "cribs" and prefer a normal Volvo over a flashy supercar, so to say.

When Princess Amalia engages with blue blood or not, most likely people could not care less. There is no way that a German nobleman would be less welcomed than the dude who is linked now to Amalia, whom seems to come from a very wealthy German family. My guess a Carl-Anton Erbprinz zu Waldeck und Pyrmont will equally be welcomed as a Herr Carl-Anton Schmidt.

In addition to your IMO correct view, a different kind and more widely accepted form of snobbery would come in play if she picks a husband who is not schooled in University - which is not likely - and without some sort of a beginning of a carreer in business, diplomacy and the likes afterwards. In the Daniel-scenario , his non-royal/noble background would not be an issue in the NL either but it would probably lead to decades of catty or pitying comments in newspapers etc. about his intellect. And of course anybody outside of the 'bon chic, bon genre' is not likely either.

--
As for the German magazines and their report on a young man: I am curious to see if the (mild) Dutch gossip press will pick it up and how far they will go. From the beginning of the Media Code I wondered if the whole thing will come to an end when the princesses start to have serious relationships, as that is a gold mine for these magazines. But we will see and let's hope for the sake of the young man that they will leave him alone. For now I have not seen the information on any Dutch websites yet but I am not sure how long they can ignore it if big glamour magazines such as Hola, Bunte and even Point de Vue are publishing it. I imagine that for now they are waiting to see if there is any substance to the articles.

Edit: Apparently the magazine 'Story' already posted a photo of Amalia and a young man on their cover on December 8th. It shows the two of them on Brooklyn Bridge in New York.


The -ghastly- editors of other magazines claimed on SBS that they thought the trouble they will have by publishing a photo is not worth any potential benifits. They have been involved in many law suits over the years.
 
Last edited:
In addition to your IMO correct view, a different kind and more widely accepted form of snobbery would come in play if she picks a husband who is not schooled in University - which is not likely - and without some sort of a beginning of a carreer in business, diplomacy and the likes afterwards. In the Daniel-scenario , his non-royal/noble background would not be an issue in the NL either but it would probably lead to decades of catty or pitying comments in newspapers etc. about his intellect. And of course anybody outside of the 'bon chic, bon genre' is not likely either.

[....].

The Pieter van Vollenhoven syndrome. However his parents are from patrician families (Van Vollenhoven and Stuyling de Lange), it took years for Pieter to be taken au sérieux by the Court ánd by the public.

For a long time he had the image of a whimp, a soft-boiled egg, a nobody who dared to marry a Princess. (Jorge Guillermo had the same fate but the public was already happy that the poor-eyesighted Princess Christina found someone anyway).

If Princess Amalia marries a Dutchman who has not at least had university, has not been in a Corps and has not had a career then whe see the unexpected sort of discrimination, not that of someone highborn marrying the Princess ("There we go again, a Prussian Junker... What else is new?") but that of a Dutchie like you and me who suddenly becomes "His Royal Highness". Pieter van Vollenhoven, version 2.0

Actually Pieter has an university degree, he has been in the Corps, he is not "from the street" but still faced distance. Even his own parents were not happy. Pieter himself told that his parents thought he was marrying out of his league: it was simply not done to come home with a Princess. He should have known his place.

:lol:
 
The Pieter van Vollenhoven syndrome. However his parents are from patrician families (Van Vollenhoven and Stuyling de Lange), it took years for Pieter to be taken au sérieux by the Court ánd by the public.

For a long time he had the image of a whimp, a soft-boiled egg, a nobody who dared to marry a Princess. (Jorge Guillermo had the same fate but the public was already happy that the poor-eyesighted Princess Christina found someone anyway).

If Princess Amalia marries a Dutchman who has not at least had university, has not been in a Corps and has not had a career then whe see the unexpected sort of discrimination, not that of someone highborn marrying the Princess ("There we go again, a Prussian Junker... What else is new?") but that of a Dutchie like you and me who suddenly becomes "His Royal Highness". Pieter van Vollenhoven, version 2.0

Actually Pieter has an university degree, he has been in the Corps, he is not "from the street" but still faced distance. Even his own parents were not happy. Pieter himself told that his parents thought he was marrying out of his league: it was simply not done to come home with a Princess. He should have known his place.

:lol:
I do think that times have changed and Margriet and Pieter would not have had the same experience nowadays. Pieter was the very first commoner marrying into the Dutch royal family. The next generation is full of commoners (although several definitely from 'higher up in society'; 2 princes married daughters of prominent ministers/politicians).

I fully agree on the 'university' part: a partner without a university degree (which in the Netherlands includes a Master - you aren't considered a true university graduate if you only obtained your Bachelor) would be frowned upon.
 
Last edited:
I fully agree on the 'university' part: a partner without a university degree (which in the Netherlands includes a Master - you aren't considered a true university graduate if you only obtained your Bachelor) would be frowned upon.

It is sad that we are still so snobbish to think so. 'Higher' education is deemed better that a good solid job and a 'lower-level' education.
 
It is sad that we are still so snobbish to think so. 'Higher' education is deemed better that a good solid job and a 'lower-level' education.


Well, maybe we all are wrong. Maybe the nation will be wild enthusiast when Amalia will fall in love with Pavel, a Polish migrant who has set up his own plumber company.


The most traditional candidate so far was Edwin de Roy van Zuydewijn Ph.D. (from the patrician family with two noble branches) whom has been at three universities, has been a member of the Corps *, was and that marriage with a Princess was not very succesful, to say it mildly....


* For non-Dutchies: a Corps is (an often posh) students' club with their own sociëteit where they meet and form friendships and networks. Picture: former member of Minerva in Leyden, Drs. B.W.A. van Oranje-Nassau, is welcomed at the 200 years jubilee of that sociëteit.
 
Last edited:
Not really surprising. The nobility in Germany is much larger than in the Netherlands. And a 'foreign spouse' is helpful in many ways as Mühler already stated: queen Beatrix firmly believed in this policy (I don't think she expected her eldest son to find a foreign bride who still had a very troublesome background in terms of parents).

N.B. Queen Wilhelmina's husband was known as 'Hendrik' in the Netherlands and born as 'Heinrich' in Germany. He was not known by the English version of 'Henry'.


Amalia's alleged boyfriend is not a member of the German nobility though as far as I understand. He is just rich.
 
Amalia's alleged boyfriend is not a member of the German nobility though as far as I understand. He is just rich.


Yes. Sometimes rich has become noble thanks to intermarriage with nobility and so becoming salonfähig. Think about the Krupp family.

About Amalia's alleged boyfriend I only know he is "den Deutschen Millionen-Erben Isenbrand K. (19)" (the German heir of millions, Isenbrand K.). God knows he is Isenbrand Krupp von Bohlen und Halbach. Any guess is as good as it is.
 
Last edited:
Last edited:
Yes. Sometimes rich has become noble thanks to intermarriage with nobility and so becoming salonfähig. Think about the Krupp family.

About Amalia's alleged boyfriend I only know he is "den Deutschen Millionen-Erben Isenbrand K. (19)" (the German heir of millions, Isenbrand K.). God knows he is Isenbrand Krupp von Bohlen und Halbach. Any guess is as good as it is.
Although I know you're not serious I'd just like to point out that there are no Krupps anymore. The name was tied to the ownership of the business and the family doesn't control it anymore so they're all "plain" von Bohlen und Hallbachs.
 
I believe the K stands for another name. Scion of an industrial family in Münsterland that produces items for the bathroom: sinks, showers and all that. His mother is called Jannette, not a traditional noble name but more bourgeois.

https://www.ditjesendatjes.nl/dit-is-de-duitse-vriend-waar-amalia-verliefd-op-is/

During the war the company produced grenades for the German army.

And in Antwerp it even means something totally different sah......
:whistling:

No worries,they just know eachother well,no love affair let alone a wedding...?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Amalia's alleged boyfriend is not a member of the German nobility though as far as I understand. He is just rich.

True. I was discussing the previous German partners of the Dutch royals explaining why it made sense that all previous queens and some previous kings ended up with royal or noble German spouses.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom