The Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein Controversy 2: Sep 2022 -

[hereditarytitles]

She grew up on the fringes of the royal court. She's always been around wealthy people but has never been wealthy herself.

I think that breeds insecurity & greed. She'd have been better off, more stable & happier marrying a stock broker & living a comfortable middle class life in the country somewhere. Well away from the wealthy & temptation.

She's like Icarus.

That's one possible explanation. Nevertheless, character traits are predetermined. The question is always how much is innate and how much is shaped by upbringing and environment.
I don't necessarily believe that someone who has a firm moral standpoint will change their nature or morals due to circumstances they suddenly find themselves in.

But yes, it is possible that if she had a comfortable middle class life she would have turned out differently.

 

[Toledo]

Arms of Sarah, Duchess of York

Welcome to Sarah, Duchess of York Current Events, Part 20

Commencing September 1st, 2022...

​

I opened this thread on the first page that has her Arms and realized that's the same plant, a wild weed, that grows in our yard here in Upstate NY. Extremely dangerous because those things sticking out below the flower are sharp needle like weapons that can hurt animals outside like porcupine quills. I remove lost of them from the yard yesterday! I wonder if there was some foreshadowing on that Arms choice ages ago.

The Express is reporting that food allergy charity The Natasha Allergy Research Foundation has also dropped Sarah as a patron. The Teenage Cancer Trust is reviewing her position and expected to do the same.

She's a vile person and so is her ex-husband. Charles is the brother but William should stay as clear as possible of both of them.

Sarah is not doing well in the patronage circles? Also, I was hoping she would be the one to get her ex-husband out of that palace so her nephew-in-law could move in. Very disappointing.

 

[Elly C]

I feel for her daughters at this time. They have always appeared to be a close family. To have both parents mired in public must be horrid for them.

 

[tommy100]

A total of six charities have now dropped Sarah as a patron

Duchess of York Sarah Ferguson removed from multiple charities over Epstein email

Seven charities, including the Teenage Cancer Trust, remove the former wife of Prince Andrew as a patron or ambassador.

www.bbc.co.uk

• Julia's House
• The Teenage Cancer Trust,
• Natasha Allergy Research Foundation
• The Children's Literacy Charity
• Prevent Breast Cancer
• The British Heart Foundation

 

[soapstar]

A seventh charity had now dropped her. National Foundation for Retired Service Animals has removed all mentions of her from their website.

I truly don’t understand why Sarah would write a letter to Epstein. She knew what he did and instead of being disgusted, she writes a fawning letter to him. Unbelievable.

The late Queen liked Sarah but did not include her in Royal events, private or otherwise, as she was divorced, end of discussion.Charles should have stuck to this rule IMO.

Agree.

 

[Erin9]

Am I incorrect in that Andrew and Sarah are the only people paying a price for staying friendly with Epstein after they should have? (Besides I guess GM, who is in prison.) IIRC- there’s a long list of wealthy people who did the same. Albeit- none of them gave an interview defending it.

That’s not to say that I have a problem with Andrew and Sarah paying consequences. Just curious.

As for Sarah- I don’t know what to think of her. She seems to have extremely poor judgment and is consistently involved in a PR mess of her own making. And it often revolves around money. She may be a likable, fun person to be around, but I don’t think I’d ever trust her. Certainly not where anything money related is involved. Seems she’ll do just about anything for it. I certainly don’t blame charities for dropping her.

 

[tommy100]

Sarah's spokesperson says she sent the email based on advice because Epstein was threatening to sue her for defamation for calling him a pedophile in her comments saying she regretted her association with him.
From the BBC article I posted earlier

A spokesperson for the duchess said her subsequent email to Epstein, describing him as a friend, had been sent because she was trying to counter a threat from him to sue her for defamation - and that she still really regretted any association with him.

"This email was sent in the context of advice the duchess was given to try to assuage Epstein and his threats," said a statement from her spokesman at the weekend, when the email to Epstein had been published.

The email exchange was several years after Epstein's jailing for sex offences in 2008.

The reality of that claim is, IMO, something to question. Yes Epstein might have threatened to sue her but as the BBC article points out it was several years after he was jailed for sex offences, I think any attempt by Epstein to sue would have been futile. Sarah didn't want him being annoyed at her because she wanted the option to keep him close if she needed money again IMO.


I don't think they are the only ones - the British Ambassador to America Lord Mandelson was sacked because of his links to Epstein.

I think part of the reason Andrew and Fergie seem the most affected is because they seem to have left the most paper trails of their links and actions involving Epstein.

 

[sm1939]

I believe Sarah may have written the letter due to the financial support—both in the form of money and loans—she received from Jeffrey Epstein throughout their association. I don’t view Sarah as a bad person, silly , yes, but rather someone who has consistently struggled with managing money and often lives beyond her means.


Having once been part of the Royal Family, became accustomed to a certain lifestyle. After her marriage ended, she may have found it difficult to let go of that way of life, leading to decisions that placed her in financially and reputationally compromising situations.

 

[Hallo girl]

IMO, Sarah from day one of her links to the family did not understand the structure where the money came from, she saw the RF as multi millionaires, that she could access as and when she wanted. Probably not cash in your wallet as such, but run up debts then send the bills to the palace.

She has muddled through financially , with various attempts at reincarnations as a business woman , author, tv personality, etc etc, all to make money.

It is believed the Late Queen paid her debts at some points, but she kept running them up.

She is a divorced woman who allegedly ran businesses but she does not have her own home, she lives with an ex husband. All very strange.

 

[Mirabel]

IMO, Sarah from day one of her links to the family did not understand the structure where the money came from, she saw the RF as multi millionaires, that she could access as and when she wanted. Probably not cash in your wallet as such, but run up debts then send the bills to the palace.

I read that, immediately after her marriage, she expected to have everything comped.
Prince Philip thought her foolish and on the make. It looks like his judgment was accurate.

 

[Alison H]

Both she and Andrew are very irresponsible when it comes to money. Take that holiday chalet in Verbier which cost £18 million. They were only ever going to go ski-ing two or three times a year, at most. Why couldn't they just stay in a hotel? Somewhere like Verbier must have plenty of accommodation offering suitable levels of privacy and security. And then they failed to pay off the mortgage. They just don't seem to think.

Diana's divorce settlement was something like twenty times what Sarah got. Diana, as the mother of the future king, was in a stronger position to negotiate, but, even so, it seems that Sarah didn't play her cards as well as she might have done.

 

[An Ard Ri]

I feel for her daughters at this time. They have always appeared to be a close family. To have both parents mired in public must be horrid for them.

Yes I do too and all over the news again with Sarah being dropped by charities left right and centre.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

A total of six charities have now dropped Sarah as a patron

Duchess of York Sarah Ferguson removed from multiple charities over Epstein email

Seven charities, including the Teenage Cancer Trust, remove the former wife of Prince Andrew as a patron or ambassador.

www.bbc.co.uk

• Julia's House
• The Teenage Cancer Trust,
• Natasha Allergy Research Foundation
• The Children's Literacy Charity
• Prevent Breast Cancer
• The British Heart Foundation

Frankly, I struggle to see the logic of a charity viewing all the Duchess's prior scandals (including actual financial support from Jeffrey Epstein, and personal involvement in wrongdoing e.g. cash-for-access) as tolerable, yet recoiling at a years-old letter to Mr. Epstein referring to him as a family friend in the past tense (which is arguably no more than stating a fact).

I am forced to wonder whether the letter’s publication is merely an excuse for dropping the Duchess, and the real reason is perhaps that the recent unflattering biography of the Duke (and Duchess) of York and the recent release of Epstein’s personal correspondence from his friends have revived attention and interest in the unsavory past stories about Sarah, Duchess of York, the Duke of York, and Jeffrey Epstein.

 

[TLLK]

I feel for her daughters at this time. They have always appeared to be a close family. To have both parents mired in public must be horrid for them.

Unfortunately, this is not the first time that both of the York sisters have had to deal with this type of negative press with their parents.

 

[hereditarytitles]

Unfortunately, this is not the first time that both of the York sisters have had to deal with this type of negative press with their parents.

I feel sorry for the two daughters too. They are not responsible for their parents' behavior, yet they are still exposed to it. It's often similar with parents and their children who have developed negatively. Only in that case, the blame is often placed on the parents, poor upbringing, lack of care, etc. Although that's not always the case.
It's good that Bea and Eugenie have developed so well despite their difficult family circumstances and have both started their own intact families. That's definitely positive; they won't be broken by their parents' scandal. I hope so for them.

 

[sophie25]

I think keeping saying Sarah has poor judgement is a real cop out. There's a suggestion in that phrase that she's not really at fault, it's because there's something wrong with her that means she can't see how awful a great many of those she has chosen to spend time with are. I would suggest that she did know but didn't care as long as they were lining her pockets, same with Andrew. There is something called being an adult, which holds you accountable for your actions.

 

[Durham]

That's one possible explanation. Nevertheless, character traits are predetermined. The question is always how much is innate and how much is shaped by upbringing and environment.
I don't necessarily believe that someone who has a firm moral standpoint will change their nature or morals due to circumstances they suddenly find themselves in.

But yes, it is possible that if she had a comfortable middle class life she would have turned out differently.

Oh don't get me wrong, I think she's frightful. Or at least her conduct is. Always have.

'Vulgar, vulgar, vulgar' was the reported opinion of Lord Charteris thirty years ago.

 

[kalnel]

Is Sarah still undergoing cancer treatment? Although the Epstein thing was of her own making in many ways, it must be tough to have two rounds of cancer (and treatment), plus Andrew's problems, plus the flap about where Charles wants them to live, and everything else all at once.

 

[LadyFinn]

Swedish The Perfect World Foundation ended Sarah's ambassadorship two days ago.
She has been The Foundation's ambassador for several years. The Gothenburg-based organization works to help animals and nature in vulnerable areas. “Fergie” participated in a couple of fundraising galas in Gothenburg and presented an honorary award to, among others, the famous anthropologist Richard Leakey and artist Ellie Goulding.
Daniel Wilke, the organization's press contact:
– We are shocked and saddened by the information that has emerged. The Perfect World Foundation is a platform for some of the world's strongest voices for animals and nature, and for us, credibility and integrity are absolutely crucial. Therefore, it is no longer appropriate for Sarah Ferguson to continue as an ambassador for the organization.

Fergie sparkas från svensk organisation

Ett brev från Sarah Ferguson till den pedofildömde Jeffrey Epstein har fått en rad organisationer att sparka henne från rollen som beskyddare. Svenska The perfe

www.aftonbladet.se

 

[tommy100]

Sarah Ferguson says Epstein apology email was to protect her daughters

The Duchess of York's spokesman James Henderson has come to the fierce defence of the royal, saying 'her children will always come first to her'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Sarah seems to have dragged her daughters into her latest issues by insisting her friendly email to Epstein was only to protect her daughters.

This is not, IMO, a fair or sensible thing to do. The media to be fair were largely keeping the daughters out of their parents issues so Sarah dragging them into it is bad form - and potentially allowing the media not now bring the girls into it more now their own mother has.

 

[Erin9]

Sarah Ferguson says Epstein apology email was to protect her daughters

The Duchess of York's spokesman James Henderson has come to the fierce defence of the royal, saying 'her children will always come first to her'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Sarah seems to have dragged her daughters into her latest issues by insisting her friendly email to Epstein was only to protect her daughters.

This is not, IMO, a fair or sensible thing to do. The media to be fair were largely keeping the daughters out of their parents issues so Sarah dragging them into it is bad form - and potentially allowing the media not now bring the girls into it more now their own mother has.

So- I read that pretty quickly, but Sarah is claiming that his anger at her publicly denouncing him was fixed by a private email?

How did that email become public anyway?

 

[Durham]

Sarah Ferguson says Epstein apology email was to protect her daughters

The Duchess of York's spokesman James Henderson has come to the fierce defence of the royal, saying 'her children will always come first to her'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Sarah seems to have dragged her daughters into her latest issues by insisting her friendly email to Epstein was only to protect her daughters.

This is not, IMO, a fair or sensible thing to do. The media to be fair were largely keeping the daughters out of their parents issues so Sarah dragging them into it is bad form - and potentially allowing the media not now bring the girls into it more now their own mother has.

Using your own daughters to excuse your contact with a serial sex offender of other people's daughters.

Blimey, that's got to be a new low, even for Fergie.

 

[Alisa]

You up Sarah nicely-greedy, undisciplined, and refuses to accept responsibility!

Like everyone, I feel bad for Beatrice and Eugenie. Talk about sins of thy father AND mother.
Sarah needs to be careful- if more emails are revealed and if it is uncovered that she was just lying to safe face- she'll be done for!

 

[Lady Daly]

You up Sarah nicely-greedy, undisciplined, and refuses to accept responsibility!

Like everyone, I feel bad for Beatrice and Eugenie. Talk about sins of thy father AND mother.
Sarah needs to be careful- if more emails are revealed and if it is uncovered that she was just lying to safe face- she'll be done for!

With losing 6 of her charities I'm not sure Fergie is in very good standing at this point. She has been very clever at marketing herself over the years. She has written several memoirs perhaps time to write another memoir, it's been a few years hasn't it.

 

[Princess_Eleanor]

So- I read that pretty quickly, but Sarah is claiming that his anger at her publicly denouncing him was fixed by a private email?

How did that email become public anyway?

It is not known who leaked the email to the media. Likewise, emails by the (now fired because of it) British ambassador to the US to his friend Epstein have been leaked. But certainly there are people in the US going through the Epstein files, so one might assume that the emails came from there...

More emails by Sarah or Andrew to Epstein might still be leaked - the BRF should definitely prepare for that.

 

[Prinsara]

Sarah Ferguson says Epstein apology email was to protect her daughters

The Duchess of York's spokesman James Henderson has come to the fierce defence of the royal, saying 'her children will always come first to her'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Sarah seems to have dragged her daughters into her latest issues by insisting her friendly email to Epstein was only to protect her daughters.

This is not, IMO, a fair or sensible thing to do. The media to be fair were largely keeping the daughters out of their parents issues so Sarah dragging them into it is bad form - and potentially allowing the media not now bring the girls into it more now their own mother has.

And that’s a terrible excuse especially because her girls were not remotely at the same type of risk from Epstein other vulnerable girls and young women (like the ones Eugenie has gone on to support) were.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

And that’s a terrible excuse especially because her girls were not remotely at the same type of risk from Epstein other vulnerable girls and young women (like the ones Eugenie has gone on to support) were.

It is an entirely different type of risk indeed, but "[I will] destroy the York family" does sound like some sort of threat against her daughters - assuming that her spokesperson is accurately quoting Jeffrey Epstein. (Though I am not sure how Mr. Epstein would have gone about "destroying" the York daughters, then in their early 20s.)

That said, I agree with @tommy100 that this statement from her spokesperson does her daughters a disservice, as it unnecessarily links them to their mother's actions.

 

[Toledo]

When Sarah was caught in the pay to play scandal with the Saudis, she claimed that she partially needed the $$ to pay off debts accumulated by a friend.
You know...because she's such a big-hearted, generous, SWELL gal.
I spent years defending this woman against what I still believe were mean spirited and gratuitous attacks by the media, but I guess I need to face facts.
She is greedy and undisciplined. Always has been, apparently. And just like a narcissist, she refuses to accept responsibility.
It's always someone else's fault.

Re When Sarah was caught in the pay to play scandal with the Saudis, she claimed that she partially needed the $$ to pay off debts accumulated by a friend...

Do we see a pattern here? Sarah and the Saudi money, Sarah and the Epstein money? And are those friend's debts from her ex-spouse? This would explain a side of the post divorce situation involves Sarah, when needed, has to be the front person to seek money and pay debts caused by both their financial mismanagement as in "...needed the $$ to pay off debts accumulated by a friend..."

Don't you think everything is coming out into the open? She's turning to look like the problem solver for another person, like her, that can't handle money to secure a safe financial future.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

I have said it once and I will say it again. The fact that Sarah and Andrew raised two such stable and decent children is nothing less than a miracle, imo.

The girls shouldn't be held responsible for their parents' wrongdoings but... I don't know... IIRC Beatrice was quite active behind the scenes of the Newsnight interview which, to me, indicates a lack of situational awareness at best and ignorance at worst. And Eugenie... while her work with the Anti-Slavery Collective is admirable, it's hard to isolate her anti-trafficking work from the fact that she hasn't even acknowledged that her parents have ties to a known human trafficker which, again, ends up feeling rather ignorant.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

The girls shouldn't be held responsible for their parents' wrongdoings but... I don't know... IIRC Beatrice was quite active behind the scenes of the Newsnight interview which, to me, indicates a lack of situational awareness at best and ignorance at worst. And Eugenie... while her work with the Anti-Slavery Collective is admirable, it's hard to isolate her anti-trafficking work from the fact that she hasn't even acknowledged that her parents have ties to a known human trafficker which, again, ends up feeling rather ignorant.

The idea of an interview for Andrew to issue a humble mea culpa was actually a very good one. And IF he had done that, it would have been a master stroke and might have averted some of the disastrous fallout.

The fact that it didn't happen that way cannot be blamed on Beatrice imo. Andrew is Andrew. She was reportedly devastated.

As for Eugenie...she is between the proverbial rock and hard place. How on earth should she go about "acknowledging that her parents have ties to a known sex trafficker"?

How would that even look? A sit down interview? A Twitter comment?

In my opinion it would make things 100x worse.