The Prince and Princess of Prussia: August 2011-


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Georg Friedrich and Sophie attended a lunch that was given for King Willem-Alexander and Queen Máxima at Sanssouci Palace in Potsdam, Germany, today, May 22. More about the King and Queen's visit can be found here.



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Isn't most of that castle a ruin,strange that he would go to court over a ruin.
 
An Ard Ri said:
Isn't most of that castle a ruin,strange that he would go to court over a ruin.
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A very profitable ruin which is a tourist magnet. The construction of a luxury resort will have opened the Prince's eyes.
 
Why would the Hohenzollerns not have a legal right to reclaim the property? Is it because George Friedrich is not a reigning monarch?
 
CyrilVladisla said:
Why would the Hohenzollerns not have a legal right to reclaim the property? Is it because George Friedrich is not a reigning monarch?
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No, the family left this ruin in 1924 to the city, but with the demand, not to sell it. Now was a hotel built there, which they say violated the original treaty - and they want it back.

The judges claim, the ruin was part of the royal estate and could not be sold by the family or left to the city, but was property of the state after the end of the monarchy (that is the questionable part).

It is difficult (in case my description makes no sense to you, I am not a legal expert) and far from over!

In German:
https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/rhein...tscheidung,sankt-goar-burg-rheinfels-102.html
 
victor1319, Your explanation was perfect. It is unfortunate that the castle cannot be returned.
 
Georg Friedrich seeks restitution of artefacts

Prince Georg Freidrich is spearheading efforts by the House Hohenzollern to get thousands of artworks, memorabilia and other historical artefacts from the German state back.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...eclaim-historical-artefacts-from-german-state


He also wants back part of House Archive, the Library of the Prussian Kings and the right to inhabit Castle Cäcilienhof and two other castles/villas. He says, they have a right for a partly restitution because of the unlawful acts of the former communist regime in Eastern Germany.



The Politicians are of course against it.
(in German)
https://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/...-tausende-bedeutende-kunstwerke/24587204.html
 
victor1319 said:
Prince Georg Freidrich is spearheading efforts by the House Hohenzollern to get thousands of artworks, memorabilia and other historical artefacts from the German state back.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...eclaim-historical-artefacts-from-german-state


He also wants back part of House Archive, the Library of the Prussian Kings and the right to inhabit Castle Cäcilienhof and two other castles/villas. He says, they have a right for a partly restitution because of the unlawful acts of the former communist regime in Eastern Germany.



The Politicians are of course against it.
(in German)
https://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/...-tausende-bedeutende-kunstwerke/24587204.html
Click to expand...

Additional information:

https://www.dw.com/en/german-kaisers-heir-wants-seized-artifacts-back/a-49576011
 
Is there a reason for submitting this claim? The property belongs to the state now. Georg Friedrich previously said he did not support restoration of the monarchy. Has he changed his mind? Now that he has descendants maybe that has reminded him of life before the Republic.
 
rob2008 said:
Is there a reason for submitting this claim? The property belongs to the state now. Georg Friedrich previously said he did not support restoration of the monarchy. Has he changed his mind? Now that he has descendants maybe that has reminded him of life before the Republic.
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Here he claims only stuff and property back, that was situated in the former communist part of Germany. The talks between the House of Hohenzollern and the politicians were already going on for years, but became only recently known to the public.

Why this happened, who talked to the press and if Georg Friedrich has changed his mind - about this can only be speculated.
 
Did he really change his mind? I doubt but regardless, him claiming all their family properties back has nothing to do with his own personal mindset of whether to push for German monarchy again or not.

It's their family property after all.
 
theroyalfly said:
Did he really change his mind? I doubt but regardless, him claiming all their family properties back has nothing to do with his own personal mindset of whether to push for German monarchy again or not.

It's their family property after all.
Click to expand...


As far as I understand it, certain parts of the property of the Prussian Royal family were considered to be "private property" of the family in a contract between the family and the then reigning government in 1926. After 1945 the Sowjets took the possessions away that were in their part of Germany. Now the family tries to get these objects and places back.

The problem is that a judge has to agree that the former owner of the belongings, Crown Prince Wilhelm of Prussia, had not been responsible in a strong way ("wesentlich" in German judical language) for the ascent of Hitler. The government of the German Federal State of Brandenburg (in which the places like Cecilienhof are) had stated that of course he was because he had helped Hitler with public audiences, invitations, even a press release asking the Prussians to support Hitler. The family states that while he did this, it was in now way "wesentlich" for Hitler's taking over the power. The Crown Prince had not been a member of the Nazi Party, after all. So now we have experitises by two reknown historians who are on the same side when it comes what actually happened. But on two different sides when it comes to what the Crown Prince's actions actually mean.



When it turned out to become a yes or no-decision by the court, the Head of the Hohenzollerns started negociations with the government of the Federal Republic to get back some possessions, effectively stalling the court proceedings. But as now, after years of negociating, no result is coming out of the proceedings, the Prince of Prussia added up all the family really wants back and is threatening now to take the issue to court and to wait of the judge's decision.



Probably to get the state's negociators to come up with real solutions.



Thus far, no new court proceedings have started, the old one against Brandenburg is just bits & pieces compared to the majority of things that were granted to the Prussians in 1926, we'll see what will happen.


Other Federal States have in fact given some palaces and art objects back to their Royal families but not all families are content with what they got. (See Baden-Württemberg and the Margrave of Baden-case, while AFAIK the Duke of Württemberg was content with his negociations.) But then there wasn't any Sovjet interaction after the war and the Prussians are not the only family to still try to get things back.
 
Kataryn said:
As far as I understand it, certain parts of the property of the Prussian Royal family were considered to be "private property" of the family in a contract between the family and the then reigning government in 1926. After 1945 the Sowjets took the possessions away that were in their part of Germany. Now the family tries to get these objects and places back.

The problem is that a judge has to agree that the former owner of the belongings, Crown Prince Wilhelm of Prussia, had not been responsible in a strong way ("wesentlich" in German judical language) for the ascent of Hitler. The government of the German Federal State of Brandenburg (in which the places like Cecilienhof are) had stated that of course he was because he had helped Hitler with public audiences, invitations, even a press release asking the Prussians to support Hitler. The family states that while he did this, it was in now way "wesentlich" for Hitler's taking over the power. The Crown Prince had not been a member of the Nazi Party, after all. So now we have experitises by two reknown historians who are on the same side when it comes what actually happened. But on two different sides when it comes to what the Crown Prince's actions actually mean.
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The last Duke of Saxe-Coubrg wnd Gotha and the father of the present Fürst zu Waldeck-Pyrmont where also very strong NS-supporter and nothing of their posessions was taken away and the family stoíll owns all. Therfore i find it a bit unfair if in the prussian case the NS-history is seen as so important.
 
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I agree! Especially should be considered, that with the Hohenzollerns still in charge, Mr. Hitler would have had no chance at all to become the "Führer".
 
Really?
Mussolini became a Duce when Italy was still a monarchy.
 
Everything can be compared, but that does not mean, that everything that can be compared is equal!

This here is surely not the thread for it, but Nazism and Fascism are not equal either!
 
If the property is returned, are there any back taxes that the Hohenzollerns would have to pay?
 
It is getting interesting!

New developments in the restitution case:

First, the Prince is no longer that much interested in a right of residence in castle Cecilienhof, instead he is looking for a compromise about the things he wants to be have back.
in German: https://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/...ollern-geben-beimwohnrecht-nach/24697582.html

Second: In the State of Brandenburg are elections soon. The former east bloc communists, which renamed and regrouped as Party of the Democratic Socialism first and now call themselves The Left, are conducting a signature collection against, what they call: making a gift out of "property of the people to the Hohenzollerns".
in German: https://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/...sammlung-gegen-die-hohenzollern/24882190.html
 
Kataryn said:
The government of the German Federal State of Brandenburg (in which the places like Cecilienhof are) had stated that of course he was because he had helped Hitler with public audiences, invitations, even a press release asking the Prussians to support Hitler.
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I can't really see much logic in the statement of the Brandenburg government. Hitler and his regime were helped by millions of people both inside and outside of Germany. Many of them will have done much worse things than the crown prince. Very few of them will have seen their properties confisquated due to this help. In fact, most of them did not have to take any responsibility at all.

I understand that handing out millions of Euros to a well-to-do and privilliged family is not a thing that voters & politicians enjoy, especially not in an election year. But calling it a 'gift' is making a mockery out of the issue. In the end it is stolen property, now owned by the German state.
 
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Marengo said:
I understand that handing out millions of Euros to a well-to-do and privilliged family is not a thing that voters & politicians enjoy, especially not in an election year. But calling it a 'gift' is making a mockery out of the issue. In the end it is stolen property, now owned by the German state.
Click to expand...

The irony is, that it is called "a gift" and not "stolen property" by the former communists, who stole it... The communists are now a part of the government of the now democratic state of Brandenburg. They were elected, because the former communist east of Germany had a lot of troubles to endure. And large parts of the electorate fell for the prayers of social justice the communists sung.

BTW Not only the communists were and are hesitant, to give property back, which was confiscated under communist rule!

The chancellor of Germany right after the fall of communism, Helmut Kohl, a conservative politician, had the cunning plan, to pay for the re-building of the former communist part of Germany with the state property of East Germany. And this "state property" consists in large parts of "stolen property", which inludes property of the House of Hohenzollern. But there are much more folks, which were robbed by the communists... - Pandora's Box!
 
Is it possible to get Friedrich autograph (signed photo)?
 
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