The Future of the Norwegian Monarchy

[W.Y.CII]

(..)

When looking back the relatively short history of the NRF, they never have a "proper spare". Olav was the only child of their first king, Harald has two siblings with no succession right, similar to his father Haakon is the only one on the line of succession until 90s. Their royal house is always small. It's risky but I guess they have just got used to it.

 

[iceflower]

Posts that did discuss members of the British Royal Family only have been removed as off-topic. Also please try to stay on topic without wide digressions concerning similar cases in other royal houses. This is about the future of the Norwegian Monarchy only. Thank you!

 

[Blog Real]

A new opinion poll shows that the monarchy still has solid support among the Norwegian people. But only 62% of young people want the monarchy.

In a recent opinion poll conducted by Norstat for NRK, 73 percent say they support the monarchy.

Despite the fact that the monarchy is still strong in Norway, there has, however, been a decline in support in recent years.

Langt færre unge støtter monarkiet

En ny meningsmåling viser at monarkiet fortsatt har solid oppslutning i det norske folk. Men kun 62 prosent av unge voksne vil ha kongedømme.

www.nrk.no

 

[Marengo]

I think that 62% for young people is actually quite a high number. And as they age the support among these people will probably increase as people tend to get more conservative as they age.

 

[polyesco]

Not sure if this is the right thread, but interesting article about Ingrid Alexandra being allowed to be regent.

Loven bør endres: La Ingrid Alexandra regjere

Det vil trolig bli flere tilfeller fremover der Norge er uten regent.

www.aftenposten.no

 

[Muhler]

A very sensible and informative article.
It requires a change of the Constitution and it is possible to carry out that change pretty fast (due to an upcoming general election.) The article doesn't say whether there has to be a referendum in order to make this adjustment to the Constitution. Anyone in the know?
The article, quite rightly, points to the problem of there being so few primary royals in Norway. Right now the NRF are down to one full time working royal and four part time royals. Which IMO is pretty thin.
If Haakon go down for a few months with something, say a poor back, and with King Harald ill a lot these days, Norway has basically become a regency, because Ingrid is not allowed to step in.
And that may raise a genuine debate in Norway: Is there any need for a monarchy?
IMO a monarchy has to stay relevant and in order to stay alive. The primary function of any monarchy being ruling the monarchy and that means someone formally being in charge.

It is also eroding for the NRF if a regency (i.e. the government) takes over each time Haakon is abroad in some capacity (which is also a primary function of any monarchy) because the King is ill.
So the sooner Ingrid can take over, the more experience she will get - and she may need that experience a lot sooner than her contemporaries.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

You've made very thoughtful arguments. For the other side, two years ago Prince Albert II of Monaco altered his house laws on regency to adopt a system which was fundamentally the same as the Norwegian one. Previously, all individuals in line to take throne in Monaco, as well as the spouse or widow/widower of the monarch, were in line for regency also, but following Albert II's reform, if the Crown Prince is under age or incapacitated, the Monegasque regency will be conducted by a council of officials. The Prince must have considered there to be some advantages to the Norwegian system.

 

[kalnel]

A very sensible and informative article.
It requires a change of the Constitution and it is possible to carry out that change pretty fast (due to an upcoming general election.) The article doesn't say whether there has to be a referendum in order to make this adjustment to the Constitution. Anyone in the know?
The article, quite rightly, points to the problem of there being so few primary royals in Norway. Right now the NRF are down to one full time working royal and four part time royals. Which IMO is pretty thin.
If Haakon go down for a few months with something, say a poor back, and with King Harald ill a lot these days, Norway has basically become a regency, because Ingrid is not allowed to step in.
And that may raise a genuine debate in Norway: Is there any need for a monarchy?
IMO a monarchy has to stay relevant and in order to stay alive. The primary function of any monarchy being ruling the monarchy and that means someone formally being in charge.

It is also eroding for the NRF if a regency (i.e. the government) takes over each time Haakon is abroad in some capacity (which is also a primary function of any monarchy) because the King is ill.
So the sooner Ingrid can take over, the more experience she will get - and she may need that experience a lot sooner than her contemporaries.

Your point about the scarcity of full-time royals makes me wonder if they might want to consider a larger role for Sverre Magnus.

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

In a recent opinion poll conducted by Norstat for NRK, 73 percent say they support the monarchy.

Despite the fact that the monarchy is still strong in Norway, there has, however, been a decline in support in recent years.

Langt færre unge støtter monarkiet

En ny meningsmåling viser at monarkiet fortsatt har solid oppslutning i det norske folk. Men kun 62 prosent av unge voksne vil ha kongedømme.

www.nrk.no

The NRK poll used to be at around 70% but rose to over 80% in 2014 and 2017.
It was at 78% in 2022 and at 73% in February 2024. And not weird that it has gone down a bit after all the drama with Märtha and Durek.

Another poll, which was conducted by InFact for Nettavisen in March 2024, showed the support at 75% (article).

So the Norwegian monarchy still has the highest support in Europe. (The latest poll in Denmark shows the support for the Danish monarchy at 70%.)

--------------------

I think that 62% for young people is actually quite a high number. And as they age the support among these people will probably increase as people tend to get more conservative as they age.

Yes, 62% support among the 18-29 age group is quite high, but it was at 82% in 2017, but that was before all the Märtha and Durek stuff.

--------------------

Not sure if this is the right thread, but interesting article about Ingrid Alexandra being allowed to be regent.

Loven bør endres: La Ingrid Alexandra regjere

Det vil trolig bli flere tilfeller fremover der Norge er uten regent.

www.aftenposten.no

Yes, an interesting article by the serious and reliable royal historian Trond Norén Isaksen. But that being said, it's never going to happen!

Because I cannot see any of the political parties in the Storting prioritizing this.

--------------------

The article doesn't say whether there has to be a referendum in order to make this adjustment to the Constitution. Anyone in the know?

No, there doesn't need to be a referendum.

--------------------

Your point about the scarcity of full-time royals makes me wonder if they might want to consider a larger role for Sverre Magnus.

CP Haakon has been quite clear that this is not the plan.

 

[Toledo]

You've made very thoughtful arguments. For the other side, two years ago Prince Albert II of Monaco altered his house laws on regency to adopt a system which was fundamentally the same as the Norwegian one. Previously, all individuals in line to take throne in Monaco, as well as the spouse or widow/widower of the monarch, were in line for regency also, but following Albert II's reform, if the Crown Prince is under age or incapacitated, the Monegasque regency will be conducted by a council of officials. The Prince must have considered there to be some advantages to the Norwegian system.

The Norwegian system seems to be the best solution in matters of regency and relatives. Better a team council than a specific, or questionable, royal to protect the institution.

 

[polyesco]

The Norwegian system seems to be the best solution in matters of regency and relatives. Better a team council than a specific, or questionable, royal to protect the institution.

so should the heir be regent at all? or just have a team council deal with cabinet meetings?

 

[Somebody]

In cases such as Norway, where the king stays on even when he has to significantly reduce his activities due to ill health, to me it would make sense to allow others in the direct line of succession (so not only the heir but also the heir to the heir) to step in as temporary regent.

 

[LadyFinn]

Nettavisen's royal expert Tove Taalesen at her debate article
Is that enough now, King Harald?
Once again, it is private affairs that steal the attention from the royal family's activities.
Crown Prince Haakon represents alone at the Olympics in Paris, while the Crown Princess handles her son Marius Borg Høiby, who has been taken by the police for violence and damage.
Is this the new normal for the Norwegian royal family, with scandals, private affairs and trouble with the police?
This is new for us Norwegians.
We are used to a royal house that is politically correct, conforms and lives in harmony with the people. And which focuses on everyday matters that concern most people.
Now it resembles a reality show more than a respected cultural institution.
If this is the new normal, I think the monarchy is in danger.

Er det nok nå, kong Harald?

Om dette er den nye normalen tror jeg monarkiet står i fare.

www.nettavisen.no

​

 

[Hans-Rickard]

I think Norway would be well served by adopting the swedish system here, with the highest ranking available adult in the line of succession serving as a temporary guardian of the realm until The King / The Crown Prince Regent is available again… Currently number 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 in the line of succession is above the age of 18 and so that wouldn’t be much of a problem….

As things stands, that ofcourse includes the risk of Princess Märtha Louise sometime becoming in charge for a breef period. But considering how often she is in USA, or anywhere else in the world with her Shaman, it is still not likely…

In Sweden, the Monarch has almost no political role to fill since 1975 so the vice-regent capacity is more a symbolic act of who is in charge, and who when needed takes over The King’s meetings and audiences, and who the government should keep informed…. But the symbolic act of the highest ranking adult in the line of succession being in charge when the Monarch is absent (and the Speaker of the Parliament only when no adult in the line of succession is available) serves small royal families well i think…

 

[Biri]

I think Norway would be well served by adopting the swedish system here, with the highest ranking available adult in the line of succession serving as a temporary guardian of the realm until The King / The Crown Prince Regent is available again… Currently number 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 in the line of succession is above the age of 18 and so that wouldn’t be much of a problem….

As things stands, that ofcourse includes the risk of Princess Märtha Louise sometime becoming in charge for a breef period. But considering how often she is in USA, or anywhere else in the world with her Shaman, it is still not likely…

In Sweden, the Monarch has almost no political role to fill since 1975 so the vice-regent capacity is more a symbolic act of who is in charge, and who when needed takes over The King’s meetings and audiences, and who the government should keep informed…. But the symbolic act of the highest ranking adult in the line of succession being in charge when the Monarch is absent (and the Speaker of the Parliament only when no adult in the line of succession is available) serves small royal families well i think…

Which Royal Family are you talking about?

 

[Hans-Rickard]

Which Royal Family are you talking about?

The Norwegian Royal Family

 

[Biri]

1. Haakon
2. Ingrid Alexandra
3. Sverre Magnus
4. Martha Louise
5. Maud Angelica
6. Leah Isadora

So, in fact, they are all adult.

The Norwegian Royal Family

I hope consequences of Marius' deeds will not omit him.
And his step-aunt is in fact brainwashed.

I really fear that the future King may go into history as Haakon VIII and the last one.

 

[Muhler]

Nettavisen's royal expert Tove Taalesen at her debate article
Is that enough now, King Harald?
Once again, it is private affairs that steal the attention from the royal family's activities.
Crown Prince Haakon represents alone at the Olympics in Paris, while the Crown Princess handles her son Marius Borg Høiby, who has been taken by the police for violence and damage.
Is this the new normal for the Norwegian royal family, with scandals, private affairs and trouble with the police?
This is new for us Norwegians.
We are used to a royal house that is politically correct, conforms and lives in harmony with the people. And which focuses on everyday matters that concern most people.
Now it resembles a reality show more than a respected cultural institution.
If this is the new normal, I think the monarchy is in danger.

Er det nok nå, kong Harald?

Om dette er den nye normalen tror jeg monarkiet står i fare.

www.nettavisen.no

​

To be expected. And there will be more opinion pieces like this. All of them will say that the monarchy is in danger. Which it potentially is. But unless Ingrid or Magnus for that matter pulls a similar stunt, the NRF will survive.
But the credit of King Harald and CP Haakon may be severely reduced if they handle this in the wrong way.

Most royal families can handle and easily survive one circus clown within the family, but two (or rather three) is where it gets a bit too much.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

To be expected. And there will be more opinion pieces like this. All of them will say that the monarchy is in danger. Which it potentially is. But unless Ingrid or Magnus for that matter pulls a similar stunt, the NRF will survive.
But the credit of King Harald and CP Haakon may be severely reduced if they handle this in the wrong way.

Most royal families can handle and easily survive one circus clown within the family, but two (or rather three) is where it gets a bit too much.

Yes that’s the main danger for them as of now… When the tragic clowns in the family becomes more in number than those who works full time…

The media will only report things that sells, and if they can choose between Queen Sonja inagurating a cultural place, Crown Prince Haakon being on a business trip, Crown Princess Mette Marit hosting the litterature train - or the angel teacher Märtha Louise marrying a quack quack shaman or Marius getting taken by the police for sending a woman to hospital and destroying an apartment…. It is pretty obvious to me wich news would sell most and quickest

 

[Mbruno]

To be expected. And there will be more opinion pieces like this. All of them will say that the monarchy is in danger. Which it potentially is. But unless Ingrid or Magnus for that matter pulls a similar stunt, the NRF will survive.
But the credit of King Harald and CP Haakon may be severely reduced if they handle this in the wrong way.

Most royal families can handle and easily survive one circus clown within the family, but two (or rather three) is where it gets a bit too much.

I think ML may be a more critical issue for the NRF than Marius actually since, unlike Marius, she is still 4th in line to the throne.

 

[Stefan]

I think ML may be a more critical issue for the NRF than Marius actually since, unlike Marius, she is still 4th in line to the throne.

And a member of the Royal Family.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

And a member of the Royal Family.

Marius is also a member of the Royal Family, both officially and in the eyes of the public.

The Royal Family

Presentation of the Royal House of Norway and other members of The Royal Family.

www.royalcourt.no

 

[Stefan]

Marius is also a member of the Royal Family, both officially and in the eyes of the public.

The Royal Family

Presentation of the Royal House of Norway and other members of The Royal Family.

www.royalcourt.no

In my view not. He is no descedant of the Royal at all. But strange. In one country not even the sisters of the present and daughters of the former King are considered members of the Royal Family and in the other one who is no related to the royals at all (only that he is the half brother of the future Queen) is included.

 

[Fürstin Taxis]

I don't think it is in danger, as the trouble makers are irrelevant in the grand scheme.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

In my view not. He is no descedant of the Royal at all. But strange. In one country not even the sisters of the present and daughters of the former King are considered members of the Royal Family and in the other one who is no related to the royals at all (only that he is the half brother of the future Queen) is included.

Well, membership of the Norwegian Royal Family is decided by the King of Norway, and not by us or by foreign monarchs.

Given that Marius Borg Høiby lived primarily with the Crown Prince and Crown Princess since early childhood, I think the King made the pragmatic and correct decision. Besides, the King also granted Erling Lorentzen, Johan Martin Ferner, Ari Behn, and soon Durek Verrett membership of the Royal Family, so it could have seemed rather inconsistent not to include Marius.

The Royal Family

Presentation of the Royal House of Norway and other members of The Royal Family.

www.royalcourt.no

The Royal Family

The Royal House of Norway belongs to the House of Glücksburg. The members of the Norwegian Royal House are Their Majesties King Harald and Queen Sonja and Their Royal Highnesses Crown Prince Haakon, Crown Princess Mette-Marit and Princess Ingrid Alexandra.

The members of the Royal Family are in addition the Crown Prince and Crown Princess’s other children, His Highness Prince Sverre Magnus and Mr Marius Borg Høiby; Her Highness Princess Märtha Louise, Miss Maud Angelica Behn, Miss Leah Isadora Behn, Miss Emma Tallulah Behn and Her Highness Princess Astrid, Mrs Ferner.
​

 

[Chimene]

I don't think it is in danger, as the trouble makers are irrelevant in the grand scheme.

I agree, but the question will be asked what sort of upbringing is resulting in this total lack of judgement and even criminal behavior. The danger, in my opinion, is the individuals may not be relevant, but their actions reflect poorly, will erode trust, and won’t inspire confidence in the grand scheme.

 

[Stefan]

Well, membership of the Norwegian Royal Family is decided by the King of Norway, and not by us or by foreign monarchs.

Given that Marius Borg Høiby lived primarily with the Crown Prince and Crown Princess since early childhood, I think the King made the pragmatic and correct decision. Besides, the King also granted Erling Lorentzen, Johan Martin Ferner, Ari Behn, and soon Durek Verrett membership of the Royal Family, so it could have seemed rather inconsistent not to include Marius.

The Royal Family

Presentation of the Royal House of Norway and other members of The Royal Family.

www.royalcourt.no

​

The Royal Family​

​

The Royal House of Norway belongs to the House of Glücksburg. The members of the Norwegian Royal House are Their Majesties King Harald and Queen Sonja and Their Royal Highnesses Crown Prince Haakon, Crown Princess Mette-Marit and Princess Ingrid Alexandra.​

​

The members of the Royal Family are in addition the Crown Prince and Crown Princess’s other children, His Highness Prince Sverre Magnus and Mr Marius Borg Høiby; Her Highness Princess Märtha Louise, Miss Maud Angelica Behn, Miss Leah Isadora Behn, Miss Emma Tallulah Behn and Her Highness Princess Astrid, Mrs Ferner.​

But then Erling Lorentzen, Johan Martin Ferner and Ari Behn are married to royals and their children are blood-related to the royal Family which is not the case for Marius. I think better would habe been to say he is a Part of the Crown Prince's Family.

 

[Blog Real]

It makes no sense whatsoever for Marius to be considered a member of the royal family, and Martha's children are not.
As for the future of the monarchy, with all these scandals it is obviously threatened.
What needs to be analyzed is what type of education led Marius to have this type of attitude. Either way, I don't see Princess Ingrid Alexandra having that kind of attitude, and I don't think Sverre Magnus does either. But there has to be a deep reflection on what happened, that has to be...
The Royal Family of Norway has to look at the other royal families and realize that there are certain things that have to change...

 

[Tatiana Maria]

It makes no sense whatsoever for Marius to be considered a member of the royal family, and Martha's children are not.

Like Marius Borg Høiby, Princess Märtha Louise's daughters are members of the Royal Family. Princess Ragnhild's and Princess Astrid's children are not (although their late fathers were).

The Royal Family

Presentation of the Royal House of Norway and other members of The Royal Family.

www.royalcourt.no

The Royal Family

The Royal House of Norway belongs to the House of Glücksburg. The members of the Norwegian Royal House are Their Majesties King Harald and Queen Sonja and Their Royal Highnesses Crown Prince Haakon, Crown Princess Mette-Marit and Princess Ingrid Alexandra.

The members of the Royal Family are in addition the Crown Prince and Crown Princess’s other children, His Highness Prince Sverre Magnus and Mr Marius Borg Høiby; Her Highness Princess Märtha Louise, Miss Maud Angelica Behn, Miss Leah Isadora Behn, Miss Emma Tallulah Behn and Her Highness Princess Astrid, Mrs Ferner.
​

Perhaps we should move the discussion about membership of the Royal Family to Constitutional and Dynastic Matters in the Norwegian Monarchy.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

I agree, but the question will be asked what sort of upbringing is resulting in this total lack of judgement and even criminal behavior. The danger, in my opinion, is the individuals may not be relevant, but their actions reflect poorly, will erode trust, and won’t inspire confidence in the grand scheme.

If not for anything else, it’s a sign that no parental love, no stable upbringing, and no priviligies in the world gives a 100 % protection from ending up on the wrong side of the law….

People are just not used to see the Norwegian RF having members who does not behave within the law.

And for the NRF, adding this to their ”other” currently ongoing scandal won’t do them any good with the norwegian people… When they only have 1 member working full time, and 4 members working part-time, people will only see and hear about the scandals.