The Family of Queen Máxima - The Zorreguietas

[Verde Esmeralda]

So he will attend the celebration at Het Loo as well. i wonder if he will be included on the grouppicture. I believe for the past baptisms for example, the RF never released a picture with the Zorreguita´s.

Well, according to what we've witnessed yesterday, this time they did! And in a very central position, right behind the princely couple!

 

[Marengo]

I was surprised by that too, this is the first time they were on official pictures I believe. A pity that non of the other siblings of Maxima came though. I wonder how the relations with her half sisters are. As they werent raised together I assume they aren´t all that close.

 

[Verde Esmeralda]

Indeed, only Martín had been included in an official group picture before (at the wedding)...

I do remember seeing pictures of the Zorreguietas and the Queen in baptisms and when the other girls were born, but never in a group picture, during an official engagement like this...

The funny thing is: all the fuss about Jorge Z. not being welcome in the Netherlands, the wedding, etc etc and now...right there in the picture...btw, wasn't he supposed not to be 'admitted' in 'official engagements of the royal family', but only in private ones? I understood sth like that in 2002.

 

[Marengo]

Well, the RF considers this a private one, as are the baptisms. They are just gracious enough to let the journalists have a few moments with their camera´s.

I don´t think however that Jorge will be welcome at a possible future enthronement though even that could be possible. Itw as made very clear by the PM of those days that Jorge´s absense was only for that day and that he wasnt a persona-non-grate in the Netherlands.

I believe Juan and Inez were also in the grouppicture of the wedding and Juan is also on offical baptism picture of Alexia.

 

[Verde Esmeralda]

I don´t think however that Jorge will be welcome at a possible future enthronement though even that could be possible. Itw as made very clear by the PM of those days that Jorge´s absense was only for that day and that he wasnt a persona-non-grate in the Netherlands.

I believe Juan and Inez were also in the grouppicture of the wedding and Juan is also on offical baptism picture of Alexia.

Yeah well, I believe that also denying Máxima the possibility of having her father there when she becomes Queen Consort, after being banned from her wedding with a Heir to the Throne.... would be too much to take I guess!

And yes, Juan and Inez were at the group picture in the wedding as well.

 

[Verde Esmeralda]

A pity that non of the other siblings of Maxima came though. I wonder how the relations with her half sisters are. As they werent raised together I assume they aren´t all that close.

I found this interview to Dolores Zorreguieta, half - sister of Máxima (daughter of Mr. Zorreguieta and Martha López Gil, his first wife), from 2002:

Historia de mujeres - Para Ti Online

Translation of its main paragraphs:

About Jorge Zorreguieta: As she doesn't mention him, the reporter asks about her relationship with her father (divorced from her mother when she was 8 years old). She replies: "How is my relationship with him? I prefer not to make any comments on it" (“¿Cómo es mi relación con él? De eso prefiero no hacer ningún comentario,”)

About Máxima:

'Máxima always liked art. Of course she's got paintings of mine in her palace in Holland. I gave her some of them as a present, and others that she bought. She helped me a lot while I was beginning. Before turning into a princess she was my maecenas [ patron, sponsor ], and bought many of my art pieces" ("A Máxima siempre le gustó el arte. Por supuesto que tiene cuadros míos en su palacio de Holanda. Algunos que se los regalé yo, y otros que me compró. Ella me ayudó mucho en mis comienzos. Antes de que se convirtiera en princesa fue mi mecenas, y compró varias de mis obras…”)

"-Are you bothered by the association to Máxima?
-It is understandable for all the world of fantasy that she generates, and I must accept it. But they also have to understand that one is not prepared for this. Her wedding had a worldwide impact, that has a great influence in me, and it wasn't my decision. Everything implied a big readjustment in my life."

("–¿Te molesta que te asocien con Máxima?
–Es comprensible por el mundo de fantasía que Máxima genera, y tengo que aceptarlo. Pero también tienen que entender que uno no se prepara para esto. Su casamiento tuvo una resonancia enorme en el mundo entero, que influye mucho en mí, y que no se dio por una decisión mía. Todo esto implicó un reajuste bastante grande en mi vida.")

'Beforehand, I used to carry exhibitions, there was press coverage and everything was purely because of my art. However now I am exposed to a deal of interests that have nothing to do with the artistic value of what I do. That's a burden I shall carry for life' (“Antes yo hacía muestras, salían notas en los diarios y todo tenía que ver, pura y exclusivamente, con mis obras. En cambio ahora estoy expuesta a una serie de intereses que no pasan por el valor artístico de lo que hago. Eso es una carga que lamentablemente llevaré de por vida.”)

It is also said that she suffered from press harassment when the relationship of Máxima and the Prince was discovered, since she lives in NY.

 

[Verde Esmeralda]

In yesterday's edition of Página 12 (left-wing newspaper) it is published that, through an initiative from the Congress, several 'privilieged retirements' (high retirements paid to ex-members of the government, or the military) could be cancelled. Among them, Jorge Zorreguieta's.

Página/12 Web :: El país :: Para acabar con los privilegios

According to this newspaper, he earns $4420 per month (equivalent to €1000). For European posters, this can seem low, but believe me when I say it's a HIGH income for a retired person (and a more than decent salary for a normal working person)

 

[pollyemma]

Maxima's brother Juan must be 24 right now. does anyone know what he's doing? where does he live? thanks!

 

[Verde Esmeralda]

Maxima's brother Juan must be 24 right now. does anyone know what he's doing? where does he live? thanks!

I have absolutely no idea. Juan doesn't get too much of a press coverage these days (neither does Ines). Only Martín Zorreguieta, I would say, is quite often featured in magazines.

I guess Juan lives in BA... though I haven't seen him round the family residence.

 

[Princess Maxima]

Juan lives in Buenos Aires and is an engineer(has studied at the same University as Máxima, the Catholic Univ. of Argentina -U.C.A-)

 

[pollyemma]

Ok that is interesting. thanks so much!

 

[Verde Esmeralda]

In today's obituaries of La Nacion newspaper, we've got the Zorreguieta family expressing their condolences for the death of Marta Seeber de Braun (a friend of the family, I suppose). One of them includes Maxima, the prince and her brothers, the other Jorge Z. and Maria.

 

[Princess Maxima]

Nice that Máxima&Alexander also participate.

The lady who passsed away was the mother of priest Braun(he attended Máxima&WA's wedding)

 

[Marengo]

Ah, I already wondered if she was related to fatehr Braun. But is father Brauns complete last name Seeber de Braun? Or is Seeber his mothers own last name? She must have been on quite an advanced age, as father Braun himself seemed around 60 at the time of the wedding.

Nice that they place an advert and under just Maxima and Alexander van Oranje, very simple. What do they mean with (as) before Martin Zorreguieta?

 

[Princess Maxima]

Ah, I already wondered if she was related to fatehr Braun. But is father Brauns complete last name Seeber de Braun? Or is Seeber his mothers own last name? She must have been on quite an advanced age, as father Braun himself seemed around 60 at the time of the wedding.

Nice that they place an advert and under just Maxima and Alexander van Oranje, very simple. What do they mean with (as) before Martin Zorreguieta?

I guess Seeber is his mother's surname. (and de Braun must have been her wedding surname)
(as) means absent(Máxima&Alexander will not attend the funeral or sth like that)

 

[carlota]

who is priest braun? did marta seeber de braun live in buenos aires and is of dutch descent?

very well spotted, verde esmeralda! quite a nice gesture of maxima and willem-alexander to want to be "present" in the funeral ad.

 

[Marengo]

Father Braun is a family friend and a priest. He read from the bible at the wedding of WA and Maxima and he did some more things, asking the Argentine witnesses of Maxima some questions etc. I believe he was also present at the baptism of Amalia.

Braun is more German then Dutch. We have some Brauns here but they should be able to trace back their roots to Germany too (as are many Dutchmen).

--

Thanks for your clear awnser Victoria.

 

[Princess Maxima]

My apologizes... she was father Braun's aunt

 

[Verde Esmeralda]

I am trying to trace some comments on the relationship between the Zorreguietas and the Brauns. I found some articles:

Revista Caras

"They were welcome in El Calafate by Federico Braun, intimate friend of the Zorreguietas, who is also the owner of the Alta Vista Lodge, where they stayed at"

Braun is another traditional, aristocratic surname. I think one of her close girlfriends (who attended the wedding) was also named Braun (Braun Blaquier, I believe).

 

[Verde Esmeralda]

I guess Seeber is his mother's surname. (and de Braun must have been her wedding surname)
(as) means absent(Máxima&Alexander will not attend the funeral or sth like that)

Indeed, in our country a married woman can add her husband's surname to hers, by linking them with "de" (which means 'of' - in English - or 'van' in Dutch). It's customary, though not compulsory. And in these aristocratic families, the more surnames, the merrier !

 

[Marengo]

Well, they should marry a Portuguese, they can basically add as many last names as they like, terribly impressive for a foreigner

 

[Verde Esmeralda]

More on the Blaquier / Zorreguieta relationship:

Article on the wedding and the previous party for the Queen's birthday:

Preparativos de una boda rigurosamente vigilada

"(...) y algunos miembros de la familia Blaquier, que contrataron (...) a Jorge Zorreguieta en sus ingenios en Tucumán..."

Translation: "...and some members of the Blaquier family, who hired Jorge Zorreguieta for their sugar factories in Tucumán [argentinian province, well known for its sugar industries]"

 

[Regina]

Well, they should marry a Portuguese, they can basically add as many last names as they like, terribly impressive for a foreigner

I know this is a bit off the topic but the Portuguese cannot add as many surnames as they want. A Portuguese is allowed to have no more than 2 names and 5 surnames. What matters to the Portuguese upper-class is not the number of surnames you have but the "quality" of those surnames.

 

[Empress]

heh? How on earth do you determine the quality of a surname?

Mind you when the Dutch were ordered by Napolean to take last names, some of them thought that it would be a passing trend and took names like van de straat, Deurmaker, and hondenpoep, which basically translates to From the street, Doormaker and dog poop, respectively. Needless to say it was not a passing fad, and now people are wondering around with very strange last names indeed.

 

[Regina]

heh? How on earth do you determine the quality of a surname?

Mind you when the Dutch were ordered by Napolean to take last names, some of them thought that it would be a passing trend and took names like van de straat, Deurmaker, and hondenpoep, which basically translates to From the street, Doormaker and dog poop, respectively. Needless to say it was not a passing fad, and now people are wondering around with very strange last names indeed.

I was not talking about Dutch surnames, but about Portuguese surnames.
As it is usual in every country, Portugal included, almost all the surnames, have a toponymic origin or a patronymic (or nickname) origin. A good portuguese surname usually has a toponymic origin, like Bragança, Fronteira, Cadaval, etc.

 

[Vanesa]

Here, in Argentina is pretty common that high class families would form their family names making them "composés" (I don't know how to say it in English). They combines names from father family and mother's family and they makes just one. They are some of them who passed combined this way , as if it was a single name. For example, if the father was named Urquiza and the mother Anchorena, the family's name should be "Urquiza-Anchorena" And the hilarious thing is that you may have a name where different roots are combined in a signle one...For example: "Braun Blaquier", "Catelin Paz", "Caselli-Urrutia", "Meyer -Pellegrini" or "Lopez-Murphy"....Just to quote a few examples.

Vanesa.

 

[Pooky]

Here, in Argentina is pretty common that high class families would form their family names making them "composés" (I don't know how to say it in English). They combines names from father family and mother's family and they makes just one. They are some of them who passed combined this way , as if it was a single name. For example, if the father was named Urquiza and the mother Anchorena, the family's name should be "Urquiza-Anchorena" And the hilarious thing is that you may have a name where different roots are combined in a signle one...For example: "Braun Blaquier", "Catelin Paz", "Caselli-Urrutia", "Meyer -Pellegrini" or "Lopez-Murphy"....Just to quote a few examples.

Vanesa.

Vanesa,
as the saying goes: Peruvians descend from the Incas, Mexicans rom the Mayas - we Argentineans descend from the boats I mean as a follow-up to your remark about the mixing of surnames with different backgrounds.

 

[Regina]

Here, in Argentina is pretty common that high class families would form their family names making them "composés" (I don't know how to say it in English). They combines names from father family and mother's family and they makes just one. They are some of them who passed combined this way , as if it was a single name. For example, if the father was named Urquiza and the mother Anchorena, the family's name should be "Urquiza-Anchorena" And the hilarious thing is that you may have a name where different roots are combined in a signle one...For example: "Braun Blaquier", "Catelin Paz", "Caselli-Urrutia", "Meyer -Pellegrini" or "Lopez-Murphy"....Just to quote a few examples.

Vanesa.

Very interesting, Vanessa. So the real surname of Máxima is "Cerruti-Zorreguieta" and not only "Zorreguieta"?

 

[Pooky]

Very interesting, Vanessa. So the real surname of Máxima is "Cerruti-Zorreguieta" and not only "Zorreguieta"?

No, Regina - the man's name comes first! That's what they're head of the family for So it would be Zorreguieta Cerrutti But that depends on whether the parents register the child with both their surnames, it's not automatic, as I think it's in Spain?

 

[Verde Esmeralda]

For instance, Máxima's mother is María del Carmen Cerruti Carricart (or Carricat, I've seen it written in both ways). That is her full surname (a double one) as a single woman. When married to Jorge Z., she can also be called M. del C. Cerruti Carricart de Zorreguieta, or even plain Maria del Carmen Zorreguieta (as she did in the ad I posted)