The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 9: August 2023 -


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Just (accidentally - happened to standby when he shared the story with other onlookers) heard a story from a local fish market salesman about a day in February a few years ago when Harry visited the fish market when they briefly lived on Vancouver Island. Once they recognized Harry (which wasn’t immediately but his security gave him away), they took both him and his security detail to help feed the sea lions who like to play in the water near the fish market (as they get fed the left overs). One of which is named ‘Princess’ by the locals - Harry initially thought they were joking…
 
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There was absolutely nothing offensive about the Duchess' wardrobe during the trip.
If she wore the backless dress or the cut-out dress to a Muslim region of the country there would have been headlines and outcry the day of.
Either way Nigeria has bigger issues with it's young girls than worrying about them dressing like US celebrities or at if they're at the Met Gala. Did the First Lady not attend the forum that Meghan did?


The Sun is not a source I like using at any time, but it has the video of the First Lady speaking and more info about the trip.

The article also states that MM spent almost £120k on jewellery and clothes for the three day trip.

If that statement is true, then I think that's disgraceful and just shows up MM for what she is IMO - vain, self-obsessed and utterly selfish. It's both disgusting and wasteful. Moreover, apart from two outfits I saw (out of the many, many changes of clothes), she completely failed to dress respectfully and appropriately!!!

Feel free to disagree but consider how much good £120k would have done for homeless veterans or Nigerians in poverty. And no need to reply about how much money is spent on the BRF's wardrobe, they are doing a job they are paid to do representing the UK people (and are spending less on clothing in some quarters) and often recycle their clothing; HRH The Princess Royal is well known for doing this, often wearing outfits she was last seen wearing in public a few decades ago. MM is only interested in representing one thing - herself.

You should have stuck to your guns. There is a reason you don't normally believe The Sun in the first place.

The Duchess DID NOT spend £120K on clothes and jewelry. The article is false.

Half of the clothing worn on the trip were recycled pieces. For example, the white suit, the white Carolina Herrera shirt that she wore with African print skirt, and the long yellow dress she wore 2x before in 2020 for Archie's first birthday and in 2021 for the pregnancy photos for Lilibet. The very few new pieces that she wore (ie. Johanna Ortiz) were not from high end designers and she also wore 2 pieces from local NIGERIAN designers. Also if you look through her jewelry thread on this forum and on social media you'll see that 99% of her jewelry worn during the trip were all previously worn items.

This is just another example of some of the British press determined to smear, distort the facts, and spread lies about the Duchess.
 
There was absolutely nothing offensive about the Duchess' wardrobe during the trip.
If she wore the backless dress or the cut-out dress to a Muslim region of the country there would have been headlines and outcry the day of.
Either way Nigeria has bigger issues with it's young girls than worrying about them dressing like US celebrities or at if they're at the Met Gala. Did the First Lady not attend the forum that Meghan did?
I'm sorry but I disagree. I make it a point to respect the customs and the culture when I travel to another country. If she had been in Iran or Saudi Arabia, would people be pushing back on this type of criticism? Her clothes would have made headlines and generated discussion if she had dressed more modestly, but it would have all died down by now. Now this discussion is overshadowing any message they wanted to send. It was an unforced error..
 
I'm sorry but I disagree. I make it a point to respect the customs and the culture when I travel to another country. If she had been in Iran or Saudi Arabia, would people be pushing back on this type of criticism? Her clothes would have made headlines and generated discussion if she had dressed more modestly, but it would have all died down by now. Now this discussion is overshadowing any message they wanted to send. It was an unforced error..

Of course if the Duchess went to a predominantly or a Muslim country like Saudi Arabia or Iran her outfits would have been deemed inappropriate and there would have been outrage. Also technically, she would not be allowed in such places either way.
However, Meghan went Nigeria a country that is NOT predominantly Muslim or a strict Muslim country like Iran or Saudi Arabia.
In fact, had the First Lady not made public comments just recently we wouldn't be having a discussion.
See picture 4. Meghan sat next to a woman who wore a backless and off the shoulder dress
 
I think Meghan missed another opportunity to garner some respect and prove her critics wrong. Any celebrity (whether royal, formerly-royal or non-royal) looking to polish their image with philanthropic tours to another country need to err on the side of caution. Had she made a point of wearing more conservative clothes (regardless of what any of the other women she was visiting wore), she'd have been praised for being classy and respectful. For me it begs the question whether her clothes choices were made for the country she visited or for the documentary she's filming. (Just my opinion!)

Personally I didn't think much of what she wore was all that bad, but she did make some fashion choices (perhaps for the camera's) that didn't seem appropriate (like the dress on the school visit). That is better discussed in the Fashion thread however.
 
Of course if the Duchess went to a predominantly or a Muslim country like Saudi Arabia or Iran her outfits would have been deemed inappropriate and there would have been outrage. Also technically, she would not be allowed in such places either way.
However, Meghan went Nigeria a country that is NOT predominantly Muslim or a strict Muslim country like Iran or Saudi Arabia.
In fact, had the First Lady not made public comments just recently we wouldn't be having a discussion.
See picture 4. Meghan sat next to a woman who wore a backless and off the shoulder dress
I don't know what you mean by a "strict" Muslim country but although Sharia law is not imposed nationally, it an important part of many state governments. I didn't click on the link (I generally don't) but the fact some Nigerian women adopt this style is the reason the First Lady made the speech. Most Nigerian women dress modestly in very bright colors.

The reality is that the First Lady did make these comments and if Meghan had dressed more modestly, we would not be discussing her clothes. Whenever this trip is referenced in the future, this controversy will be mentioned.
 
Meghan didn't miss another opportunity to prove her critics wrong. Regardless of what she wore, she would have been criticized here on this forum. Let's not kid ourselves here.

US Royal Watcher, look how much time went by before any discussion of Meghan's appearance was discussed. I maintain that if it was an issue during the tour the press would have had a field day and criticized her for her looks. We are now just having this discussion because the First Lady made her comments recently. No other press made an issue during or after the tour. Hardly and issue and I doubt most people will remember her comments 6 months from now.
 
I agree that some people will criticize her regardless of what she does, but that is the reality of being a well-known person (and even just living a mundane life). In a previous post, I said that I felt that the trip had gone as well as it could have since they were not invited by the Nigerian government. Harry and Meghan brought some visibility to injured servicemen in Nigeria - but I also mentioned that her outfits were inappropriate. I heard about her attire from several of my Nigerian friends, with the outfit worn to the school receiving the most criticism.
 
That is precisely my point Alisa. Had she made different clothing choices then the criticism that inevitably came would have been muted, which I think you believe has happened. It didn't, she was roundly criticised on social media platforms and in other forums. Just because many people here made no real effort to discuss it here doesn't mean anything. You are totally correct, she will be criticised no matter what, because she seemingly continues to ignore good advice, if indeed she even gets it. I'm no hater nor am I a lover, just an observer. I observe someone who could use her wealth and privilege (and her husband, for that matter) for so much good, but she chooses celebrity and fame instead. I think that's a waste, to be honest.
 
Meghan didn't miss another opportunity to prove her critics wrong. Regardless of what she wore, she would have been criticized here on this forum. Let's not kid ourselves here.

US Royal Watcher, look how much time went by before any discussion of Meghan's appearance was discussed. I maintain that if it was an issue during the tour the press would have had a field day and criticized her for her looks. We are now just having this discussion because the First Lady made her comments recently. No other press made an issue during or after the tour. Hardly and issue and I doubt most people will remember her comments 6 months from now.
And - with the greatest of respect Alisa - regardless of what she has done, she has been defended on here, too - and often regardless of the presence of inconvenient and incontrovertible facts. We shouldn't kid ourselves about that, either!

Moreover, this thread had to be closed again - for about a week this time - as the trip was ending, so naturally that impacted on being able to discuss things in a timely manner (this is not a criticism of the mods who had no choice other than to close it IMO).

Then there is the small matter of us all having other things to do to - life still goes on away from here, and our worlds do not (and should not!) revolve around this thread; but I personally saw much reporting and discussion elsewhere about her appearance and behaviour, both during and after the trip.

Ultimately, it is the responsibility of everyone who posts here (myself included) to ensure the thread can stay open. Let's hope we can keep on talking.

:flowers:
 
I will end here after this as I don't think I can make myself any more clearer on the issue.

The Duchess was never publicly criticized about her attire. In lieu of this discussion, I spent 2 hours searching through various articles and press reports and not one of them criticized her outfits or deemed them immodest and inappropriate. On the contrary, she was actually praised for showcasing local fashion designers. One article by Forbes Africa mentioned that the red Diré dress (which cost $173 USD-note to the Sun) sold out quickly and was in such high demand that the company's website crashed. Another article, praised the couple's tact and creativity for wearing a white and green suits- a nod to the country's green and white flag color. However, no one deemed it inappropriate or immodest.
People on social media platforms do and did criticized various outfits. That is undeniable. I have seen comments on the long dress she wore on the opening day and to the school that the dress was suited for another occasion because part of her back was exposed. On X (formerly Twitter), one commenter felt offended that Meghan wore a bright red dress to a woman's forum and felt that she should have worn a more muted color. I could go on and on. The bottom line is everyone is entitled to their own preferences and taste. However, there is a big difference between accusing someone of being immodest and inappropriately dressed. And I maintain that had the First Lady not mention her recent comments- there would have been no such discussion in the press.
 
But why did the First Lady made the comment? Nowadays, the press as a whole is an agenda pushing, propaganda machine, and psychopath combined on both sides of the argument. No one is doing honest reporting anymore because everything is being pushed for revenue, again regardless of what side of the argument you’re on (of course, there are exceptions and there are those who still do their jobs). Naturally, people who are critical thinkers are not going to accept the fact that a bunch of people are busy telling the masses the sky is yellow when it’s blue, was blue, has been blue, and will always be blue. What’s the rule of thumb and the saying: when in Rome, act like a Roman. If anyone insists on pretending to be [insert whatever here], you must try to get a least the basics right. But that’s beside the point. As someone above noted was the purpose of that “tour” anything more than having nice photos for the people exclusive?
 
In less than five minutes I found two articles describing MM's dress in Nigeria as inappropriate, and published while they were actually there, but I'm not trying to compete here; that's not really the point.

The point is that at the end of the day, my opinions about MM and PH have always been informed by their own words and behaviour and their distant relationship with truth and facts, rather than the media, and in particular the tabloid media who have a nasty habit of switching sides to boost sales in any case (I completely agree with Chimene's post above). For clarity, I linked the Sun article with the comments by the Nigerian First Lady as a quick response to another post that mentioned it but did not provide a link.

This is also not the first time I've found MM's clothing inappropriate; there was an outfit at the Invictus games that I found particularly disrespectful - and I commented about it at the time. So Nigeria was no surprise; in a nutshell, she deliberately dressed in the manner she did to get attention. MM's need for attention is akin to the human need for oxygen; it's essential to her existence. A well-known quote by Oscar Wilde also springs to mind! Good or bad, the important thing for her is that she is being talked about, even if it's justifiable criticism she doesn't want to hear!

Every time something like this happens, it proves IMO that she never had any real interest in being part of something bigger like the BRF, as even when she was the centre of attention (and for good reasons) it wasn't enough; playing second fiddle to anyone else was anathema to her. It was all merely a launching pad for stardom or notoriety, depending on your point of view.

And on that note I too will end it there, as I have a film to watch!

My post is full of errors that I can no longer edit (🤦🏽‍♀️). Sorry.

1: why did the First Lady make
2: sycophants (not psychopaths 😂)
3: at least

No worries. I understood what you meant! :flowers:
 
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I think after all the debate on here it shows the reality....both sides of the discussion are correct in many ways.

Meghan was not in a Muslim country or any other country where modesty laws or religion demand a more modest way of dress

This was not an official royal tour so, in reality the dress code is theirs to set

The media generally fawned over, praised, or at the very least, didn't mention, Meghan's fashion choices at the time of the visit. BUT its interesting to note most of the media coverage was from European or American media outlets. Likewise though, no Nigerian media outlets seemed to criticise the fashion choices made.

That said, I don't think, personally, what she wore was always suitable for where it was worn. By that I mean not so much the country but the actual venue - e.g. a school.

Likewise, given how everyone else dressed, and given this was a formal if not "official" visit IMO some of the choices were too casual. Fine if they had been on holiday and snapped in private time but for public events perhaps not the best choices.

I would add that having a sister who has worked in a number of African countries, including Nigeria, I know just from that link that its generally welcomed (note: welcomed not compulsory or expected) to dress modestly. A quick google of Nigeria visiting clothing brings up a number of results that likewise suggest dressing modestly would be welcomed. I'm surprised in that sense that Harry, Invictus, the Nigerian defence department, or even the couple themselves googling didn't result in a decision to be a bit more modest in some of the outfit choices. Again, there are no rules stating this but if "welcomed" it sounds like a good idea to me.

I think its fine we all have an opinion on what Meghan wore, let's be honest in such a high profile tour as this what she wore was always going to be scrutinised so I don't think the fact people are talking about what she wore it out of line or unexpected.

So ultimately to me it comes down to this....it is entirely a personal feeling whether what she wore was okay or not. Likewise with whether the Nigerian First lady was meaning Meghan when she talked about women not dressing modestly, dressing like the Met gala - those comments will in your mind apply to Meghan if you also think what she wore wasn't quite right, if you thought it was spot on then the comments don't apply. Thus the media aren't entirely right or wrong in their coverage and the First Lady could just as easily say her comments were one way or the other.

Personally I don't think what she wore was spot on, not everything all the time. What is interesting to me personally is so much of the visit seemed to emulate a royal visit yet in this one particular area it didn't.
 
She didn’t google Harry (her words) so why would she google now? We are making the assumption that she cares beyond the just getting press and dressing up. I still maintain, and that’s an opinion/observation, if the goal was having a soft diplomacy platform to do good, she would still be a royal. The fact of the matter is, she’s is where she is because that’s how she wants it. You’re absolutely correct she can dress however she likes and that’s her choice/right, but don’t expect to be taken seriously when you can’t follow the basic rules/principles. She told Nigerian girls to look up to her, and the First Lady is asking those girls to look up to people who are, at the very least, modest.
 
Absolutely. I can go into a situation, decide this is not for me, and I change my mind. Got it. For example, I go into new employment and it doesn’t work for a variety of reasons, not the right fit, scope of work was not what I was told or expected, the list goes on. How you exit that situation is the defining factor. And this is where all the trouble originated. We can argue who’s to blame, but the truth is, it’s never a good idea or winning strategy to bite the hand that feeds you. And that’s before you get into the whole familial relationship aspect of the story.
 
Absolutely. I can go into a situation, decide this is not for me, and I change my mind. Got it. For example, I go into new employment and it doesn’t work for a variety of reasons, not the right fit, scope of work was not what I was told or expected, the list goes on. How you exit that situation is the defining factor. And this is where all the trouble originated. We can argue who’s to blame, but the truth is, it’s never a good idea or winning strategy to bite the hand that feeds you. And that’s before you get into the whole familial relationship aspect of the story.
I do not claim in any way to speak for the uk but among people I know and chat to about H and M nobody has a real issue with them leaving , without rehashing old news it was the follow up that caused the issues.
 
Could I ask from those who know these things, were Harry and Meghan representing Invictus Games in Nigeria, I thought I would look at the write up on the website but there doesn't appear to be any reference to it. Sometimes I have forget to check all the tabs though, so I maybe missed something.
 
While I was at the supermarket an hour ago here in Upstate NY, USA, I saw the couple on the cover of People magazine for this week. People magazine editorial staff has always been accused of pampering to influencers of the moment and doing 'fluff' lighthearted articles they pass for news.

But what took my attention was the Meghan outfit they used on cover was the one she used a local Nigerian fabric given to her and placed it over her shoulder. Not the most notorious outfits we discussed in here because of the skin exposed, while surrounded by ladies more covered up within a very religious country, but the one picture that sells the theme for the trip, finding her roots, probably a Netflix project

It's ironic the Invictus games and the veterans were supposed to be the front and center of this visit, but all became a don't-call-it-royal tour.
 
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Actually Harry did concentrate on the Invictus Games on that short trip to Nigeria, regardless of what the People put on its cover. People magazine were hardly likely to put wounded warriors on their cover anyway.

The couple were in Nigeria for three days. Harry discussed the Games with the Governor of Kaduna, visited a hospital and spoke to several of the maimed and wounded male patients there. He also played a game of volleyball with maimed Nigerian ex service personnel. All that did get publicity at the time in reports that didn’t mention anything about Meghan’s ‘roots’. I read about these events and saw it on TV.
 
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People magazine is essentially the PR arm of whatever celebrity spokesperson. They probably even get the write up and just publish. I think we are getting confused, Harry may have gone for IG, but the problem is Meghan has preempted the whole operation.
 
Not in many of the reports I saw AT THE TIME. Some of the media, who happened to dislike the couple, later seized on the Meghan did this, the Meghan wore or said that bandwagon, but in fact, as I tried to show in the above reports and clips, in that three day visit there were several events that encompassed the IG and wounded and maimed personnel, plus other events that weren’t about Meghan and her ‘roots’ at all but about sport, and participating in sport for physical and mental health.
 
You’re giving us some instances, but if you’re giving exclusive in the media that “matters” [to them], shouldn’t the focus be on those events you just highlighted? And when I said preempted, she’s been doing this since after marriage, with Germany, where she marched in those shorts and flip flops in front of the service men, being a prime example.
 
I haven’t read what People magazine published about the visit to Nigeria. The article itself inside the magazine may well have dealt with the events to do with Invictus that I’ve linked. However Harry and Meghan aren’t responsible for all the editorial content about the Nigerian trip within the magazine, and I doubt very much that Meghan demanded the front cover of People magazine should be about her outfit.

Meghan’s marching in Germany and her outfit when she did so is a separate issue to the events in Nigeria. The Invictus Games in Germany was a success and local politicians attended and praised it.
 
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I haven’t read what People magazine published about the visit to Nigeria. The article itself inside the magazine may well have dealt with the events to do with Invictus that I’ve linked. However Harry and Meghan aren’t responsible for all the editorial content about the Nigerian trip within the magazine, and I doubt very much that Meghan demanded the front cover of People magazine should be about her outfit.

Meghan’s marching in Germany and her outfit when she did so is a separate issue to the events in Nigeria. The Invictus Games in Germany was a success and local politicians attended and praised it.
My thoughts are that MM has pretty much complete control over what is published about her in the People and had everything to do with what went on the cover (I don't include PH as I imagine he's very much in the background and just lets her get on with it).

When you're dealing with someone like MM who - [.....]they are not happy unless they are in complete control and everyone is doing exactly what they want them to do. They micromanage to the nth degree (I have personal experience of this with a close family member).

It's unlikely the People would have accompanied MM and PH on their trip and "got the exclusive" unless they agreed to everything H&M wanted. I'll put my hands up if I'm wrong, but without even looking I'm going to take a punt and guess that every single article in the People about the trip has been nothing but complimentary about H&M - but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Hence why the People, like Scobie and his ilk, are essentially an H&M mouthpiece.
 
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Sorry folks I was asking about the Invictus Games website, I cannot see any reference to Meghan and Harry in Nigeria, I expected them to have a report and photographs showing the highlights of the visit, especially the injured veterans and / or the sporting feature as that is surely IG related.
 
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