The Death and Funeral of Pope Francis


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The ESTONIAN President was seated in between, due to alphabetical order or whatnot. President of Finland was seated to Trump's right.
Sorry I mixed it up, Alar Karis is from Estonia of course. Still, the question remains why he was placed there.

In the French alphabetical order, it should be Espagne, États-Unis, Finlande. Either Melania or the Finnish president probably switched seats by mistake.
OK thanks, I mixed up Finland and Estonia, your answer makes sense!
 
The Grand Duchess doesn’t wear lace. I especially expected Letizia to wear a mantilla.
 
The seating did seem all over the place today. I hope it's more organised for the next Pope's inaugural mass.
It’s mostly the catholic royals and ambassadors who attends installation massess. It won’t be on this scale when it comes to vip guests.
 
I totally disagree, I thought Trump looked extremely engaged, just as he did in Notre Dame. He has a big Catholic support and has always been very respectful of Christianity, which is a lot more than I can say about many other World leaders.
If you watch Trump at these events, Notre Dame, is an example he does look all around him. He takes note of what is going on. He takes in the surroundings. Love him or loathe him when Melania whispered in his ear at the hand of peace , he took it on board and shook hands, people wanted to shake his hand, they were stretching over,
 
I totally disagree, I thought Trump looked extremely engaged, just as he did in Notre Dame. He has a big Catholic support and has always been very respectful of Christianity, which is a lot more than I can say about many other World leaders.
This forum is generally anti Trump. But I did not see him any disrespectful behaviour from him in the funeral.

But she does? She only wears it withouth the comb.
I'm not familiar with Spanish culture. I thought it's mandatory to wear with the comb.

As a royal watcher, I certainly wanted to see the royals seated together—whether in the front or back rows doesn’t matter to me. After all, it’s up to the host country to decide the seating plan and who sits where. Let’s keep our fingers crossed that the inauguration will have a different seating arrangement for the royals.
 
If you watch Trump at these events, Notre Dame, is an example he does look all around him. He takes note of what is going on. He takes in the surroundings. Love him or loathe him when Melania whispered in his ear at the hand of peace , he took it on board and shook hands, people wanted to shake his hand, they were stretching over,
I noticed Trump didn't have (or was not holding) a booklet to follow the order of the Mass as the other heads of state were doing. I wonder if he wasn't given one (unlikely) or chose not to follow.

The printed booklet, which is available online, had an English translation on the left column, so it would have been easier for Trump, who is not a Catholic, to follow the liturgy.
 
The mantilla is the lace veil, the tall comb is called peineta.

The Vatican recommendation is not using the peineta as it interferes with the vision of the person sitting behind it.
Queen Letizia wore a veil, didn't she? I believe she was appropriately dressed.

The Prince of Wales, on the other hand, could have chosen a different suit.
 
Queen Letizia wore a veil, didn't she? I believe she was appropriately dressed.
She wore a veil, which was not necessary. The protocol recommendation was black for women with hems over the knee and minimum jewellery. Head covering was optional.
 
the hereditary prince and princess of Liechtenstein have arrived at the funeral

they were sat in the second row behind the bishop and the black couple. there are no close up shots, so thats all there is.
 
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She wore a veil, which was not necessary. The protocol recommendation was black for women with hems over the knee and minimum jewellery. Head covering was optional.
Queen Mathilde could have left out the pearl choker, but it seems to be a favorite of hers for funerals.

Letizia only had a pearl brooch, I think.
 
To me, every foreign representative at the funeral was properly dressed and respectful. The only thing I find unacceptable is people taking selfies with the Pope while he was lying in state—even the nuns did so too. One day, or maybe even today, it’s acceptable to take a selfie with the deceased, but I will make sure to write in my will that cell phones are prohibited at my funeral
 
To me, every foreign representative at the funeral was properly dressed and respectful. The only thing I find unacceptable is people taking selfies with the Pope while he was lying in state—even the nuns did so too. One day, or maybe even today, it’s acceptable to take a selfie with the deceased, but I will make sure to write in my will that cell phones are prohibited at my funeral
Indeed. But if the Vatican would have something against it they could have forbidden it. At QEII's lying in state it was not allowed.
 
Indeed. But if the Vatican would have something against it they could have forbidden it. At QEII's lying in state it was not allowed.
As I said before, it’s up to the host country to decide the seating plan—and certainly to set any rules for mourners too. From what I read in the news, the Vatican didn’t seem to stop people from taking selfies either. Perhaps the Vatican has become too modern for me to keep up with—but not at my funeral, please.
 
Ferdinand of Habsburg is also in the Vatican:

King Felipe VI and Queen Letizia of Spain:

Queen Mary of Denmark:

King Carl XVI Gustaf of Queen Sílvia of Sweden:

Grand Duke Henri and Grand Duchess Maria Teresa of Luxembourg:

King Abdullah II of Queen Rania of Jordan:

King Philippe and Queen Mathilde of Belgium:

Prince Albert II and Princess Charlene of Monaco:

Crown Prince Haakon and Crown Princess Mette-Marit of Norway:
 
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Indeed. But if the Vatican would have something against it they could have forbidden it. At QEII's lying in state it was not allowed.
All kinds of people go to the Vatican. Some are pilgrims with deep religious motivation; others are just tourists. Many visitors are simple people while some are high born. My impression is that the Church tries to be inclusive and accomodate all forms of popular expression from visitors on a very broad range, as long as it does not cause damage to the buildings and art therein, threaten other people, or disrupt ongoing services.

Who knows, maybe there was a recommendation to turn off your cell phone while lining up to walk past the coffin, but some mourners simply didn't comply and no one cared to enforce it. Maybe someone who has been to the funeral can elaborate.
 
The Funeral Mass was beautiful, particularly the final reception of the late pontiff's body at the Basilica of St. Mary Major which was just so hauntingly poignant and well executed.

I thought everyone looked very appropriate, even though I would have preferred the head coverings for the ladies. But Francis relaxed Vatican protocol to the point that I shouldn't be surprised that they are no longer considered de rigeur.

I wonder if the next pope will return to the traditional dress code or is the horse too far out of the barn now?🤔

I loved the loud applause when Vlodimir Zelensky arrived.👏

The less said about the bizarre seating arrangement the better.👎

ETA: The people taking selfies at the Lying In State are disgusting. I wish someone had thrown them out.😡
 
A lovely service for a very human Pope.

Whilst it always seems trivial at such times there were a few quirks to me.

The seating arrangement - well I guess none of us can say it was wrong or a mistake as I doubt they'd get everyone in the wrong seats. Clearly for whatever reasons they chose to do it differently from the funeral of Pope John Paul II where Sovereigns were places front and centre. However Francis was a Pope who disliked pomp and so I can well imagine why they'd be going for "all Heads of State in X order, all Heads of Government etc etc" All I do hope is that no one was kicking off and causing a fuss about their seat ahead of time.

I do understand the fact that a dark navy suit is becoming acceptable for funerals (indeed I nearly wore one for a funeral not all that long ago but then decided against it and managed to go out and get a black suit in time) but it irks me that so many of the men present went for blue/navy suits over black when they probably either already have or could easily afford and source a black suit. It just feels like a lack of effort to me but hey ho in that way I am just old fashioned I guess.

I was surprised to see many of the ladies, especially Catholic ladies, going without a head covering. MT of Lux really surprised me but hey I guess times are changing.

However, those are little things when you consider the legacy of Pope Francis and that today was all about remembering the man and his actions not who was wearing what.
 
A lovely service for a very human Pope.

Whilst it always seems trivial at such times there were a few quirks to me.

The seating arrangement - well I guess none of us can say it was wrong or a mistake as I doubt they'd get everyone in the wrong seats. Clearly for whatever reasons they chose to do it differently from the funeral of Pope John Paul II where Sovereigns were places front and centre. However Francis was a Pope who disliked pomp and so I can well imagine why they'd be going for "all Heads of State in X order, all Heads of Government etc etc" All I do hope is that no one was kicking off and causing a fuss about their seat ahead of time.

I do understand the fact that a dark navy suit is becoming acceptable for funerals (indeed I nearly wore one for a funeral not all that long ago but then decided against it and managed to go out and get a black suit in time) but it irks me that so many of the men present went for blue/navy suits over black when they probably either already have or could easily afford and source a black suit. It just feels like a lack of effort to me but hey ho in that way I am just old fashioned I guess.

I was surprised to see many of the ladies, especially Catholic ladies, going without a head covering. MT of Lux really surprised me but hey I guess times are changing.

However, those are little things when you consider the legacy of Pope Francis and that today was all about remembering the man and his actions not who was wearing what.
Veils are a sign of respect and a tradition worth keeping IMO. There's wanting to reduce pomp and there's also dropping protocols that are beautiful and which have stood the test of time. I hope most ladies attending Vatican events will stick to wearing one. MT of Luxembourg really surprised me and I think she looked less put together by forgoing a veil. Even Protestant royal ladies were wearing them.
 
I noticed Trump didn't have (or was not holding) a booklet to follow the order of the Mass as the other heads of state were doing. I wonder if he wasn't given one (unlikely) or chose not to follow.

The printed booklet, which is available online, had an English translation on the left column, so it would have been easier for Trump, who is not a Catholic, to follow the liturgy.
He also choose to wear a blue suit when the dress code is black - one does not have to follow a faith to know the basic decorum one should follow at these events
 
He also choose to wear a blue suit when the dress code is black - one does not have to follow a faith to know the basic decorum one should follow at these events
Not a Trump supporter (God forbid) but the King of Jordan, the Prince of Wales, the Portuguese President and even the hyper-catholic Grand Duke of Luxembourg, all wore blue suits.
 
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