Succession issues in the Royal Family of Jordan

[madonna23]

he's definitely the son who went after his father the most (in the looks department, at least)

 

[Laura76]

I think just because Hamzah is Crown Prince now doesn't mean he WILL be king - wasn't Hussein's brother crown prince until just before the king died and was replaced by Abdullah? Does anyone know the reasons behind that sudden switch? Maybe history will repeat itself later on down the road??

 

[Lalla Meriem]

Originally posted by Banadoora+Jan 3rd, 2004 - 3:19 am--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Banadoora @ Jan 3rd, 2004 - 3:19 am)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-~*~Humera~*~@Jan 2nd, 2004 - 11:11 pm
Doesn't Jordan have clear cut succession laws that would put an end to all the speculation?

Jordan's constitution would favour King Abdullah's son, Hussein, to be king after his father. The line of succession for the Jordanian throne, as it is defined by Jordans constitution, goes from father to son. Hamzah is Crown Prince only as a result of his father's wishes. I think that King Hussein favoured him because he showed much more enthusiasm towards his country and his family's history than did his brothers. King Hussein wrote about that in his letter to his brother Hassan.

If you ask me, I doubt that Hamzah will ever become king. I think that by the time King Abdullah passes away, his son will be old enough to take over. But then again, I could be wrong. :flower:


P.S. Kudos to semipatriot for coming up with this topic! :woot: [/b][/quote]
Actually, the constitution does not favor Prince Al Hussein bin Al-Abdullah!!

It is very specific about succession. It favors whomever is named Crown Prince.

It doesn't technically allow the King to pick and choose amongst his own sons (as KH wanted to do) it only allows for the eldest son to be named or he may choose a CP from among his brothers.

The constitution is on KA's website I suggest you check it out. It is cut and dry about the requirements. Male primogenture, son of muslim parents, legitimate wife......says nothing about being 100% Arab. Though Ali is the only full arab of the boys with Hamzah and Hashim being the next closest.

As it stands:

1. Hamzah
2. Hussein bin Al-Abdullah
3. Faisal
4. Omar bin Al-Faisal
5. Ali
6. Hashim

Then to Mohammed (who I think is actually older, thus higher, than Hassan) and his son's Ghazi and Talal.........Then Hassan and Rachid......you could make the line (17 or 18 before it passes out of the line of Abdullah I)

 

[bluetortuga]

In light of all the criticism that has been heaped upon K. Abdullah and Q. Rania, do you think the Jordanian people would have preferred a K. Hamzah instead? Do the Jordanian people prefer Q. Noor to Q. Rania? Do some of Q. Noor's critics now wish they had her to deal with instead of Q. Rania?

 

[kelly9480]

Okay, they need democracy. But, which would they see as the lesser of two evils? Abdullah? Or Hamzah?

 

[queenkat101]

My family is Jordanian, and I have never, never, never heard them criticize Queen Noor. Whenever she would be on Larry King Live, we would always phone each other frantically to let everyone know to watch her. When I was in Jordan, people spoke highly of her and everyone thought she was a beautiful woman. The era when King Hussein and Queen Noor were the monarchs was a good one; I think Jordanians felt very proud of them, and also felt secure. When I asked my relatives who live in Jordan what they thought of King Abdullah and Queen Rania, they just shrug their shoulders. I don't think that KA and QR are especially close to the hearts of Jordanians.... In my opinion, Queen Rania lacks the sincerity that Queen Noor has. In terms of Hamzah, I think his sincerity is very evident.... he was a favorite of King Hussein, and I think Jordanians realize that.... they may rally towards him, especially if reminded of King Hussein's letter (to his brother Hassan) and the glowing reference to Hamzah.
A problem that King Abdullah will never get rid of is the fact that he will never eclipse the popularity of his father. Perhaps some people have noticed that in photos of the royal family, whether they are taken at public engagements or the Palace, there is always one framed photo of KA, and one of KH. Queen Noor is a constant reminder of King Hussein to the Jordanian people, and as much as Queen Rania tries, she can't undo that. I think that when the time comes when King Abdullah will have to choose his successor (Hamzah or his son, Prince Hussein) Hamzah will be the favorite of the Jordanian people, with his mother (and the words of his father) as his strongest allies.

 

[Banadoora]

Well put queenkat101!! :flower:

My family isn't Jordanian but they alsways spoke so highly of King Hussein and Queen Noor. I think that they were loved everywhere in the Middle East. I remember my mother seeing Queen Noor on television once, and getting so excited. I'm not Jordanian but I've heard about King Hussein's great deeds since I was young. And I can only imagine the amount of love that the Jordanians had for King Hussein.

We have to keep in mind that Abdullah hasn't been a king for very long and hasn't had the chance to prove himself to his people. It's very unfortunate for him that he has to work in his father's shadow.

 

[Banadoora]

To answer the question...

I think that the Jordanian people would have preferred Hamzah because he was his father's favourite. But I'm sure that there's a great reason for which King Hussein chose Adbullah as his successor. I think he's a good king.

 

[Alexandria]

Very well said queenkat101.

For me, you've hit several important key points.

In interviews Queen Noor always seemed very sincere and dedicated and committed to furthering causes and improving lives of the Jordanian people. Whether she felt that she had more to prove because she was part American, I don't know. And if Queen Noor lived as lavish a life as Queen Rania presently does - in ways not as visible as Queen Rania's designer clothes and handbags - then she hid it very well, or at least was more subtle about it.

I remember seeing a 20/20 or Primetime interview with Queen Noor prior to King Hussein's death, in which she took Barabara Walters around parts of Jordan. She struck me as very humble, and sometimes even embarassed about her lavish and numerous homes in comparison to the living conditions of most Jordanians. And the way she spoke to Jordanians was with utmost respect; she never talked down to them or acted superior to them because she was the Queen.

And I think that when the time comes for someone to succeed Abdullah, the words of his much loved and respected father will be what holds Abdullah accountable and paves the way for Hamzah rather than Abdullah's own son. That Hamzah seems to share his father's politics and passion and pride for Jordan and its people will be what generates support for him.

 

[akina21]

The Jordanian RF is as evil and currup as any other ME government.There is only one difference between the governments of Syria (for example) and Jordan. Jordan does what the American government want them to do. There is no democracy, no free press and human rights are violated.

 

[Asma2]

Welcome in LTR, akina21

 

[bluetortuga]

Question for everyone, if KA died today, would anyone outside of his family miss him? I realize that he has been in power for only five years. but during those five years, has he made much a difference in Jordan? Positive or negative? Would there be national mourning for KA like there was for K. Hussein? Do you think he is well-respected among world leaders?

Jordan does not have much in natural resources but that does not mean the country has to be poor. Japan does not have much in natural resources, yet their country is one of the wealthiest in the world, and a big source of financial aid for Jordan. I think if the government devoted more resources to educating the people, then Jordan could easily become the "Japan" of the ME. Japan is a constitutional monarchy. The monarchy has a role, but not as great a role as the Jordanian monarchy has.

 

[Bubbette]

Originally posted by akina21@Jan 10th, 2004 - 5:09 pm
The Jordanian RF is as evil and currup as any other ME government.There is only one difference between the governments of Syria (for example) and Jordan. Jordan does what the American government want them to do. There is no democracy, no free press and human rights are violated.

I think there are far more rights in Jordan than in Syria (not that that's saying much). Jordan has internet access, and they don't torture as many people as the Assad's have (recently, anyway).

 

[Banadoora]

Originally posted by bluetortuga@Jan 10th, 2004 - 7:39 pm
Do you think he is well-respected among world leaders?

This reminds me of a comment that one of my professors made a couple of years ago about K Abdullah. He told us a story about some kind of a meeting that was held, where Middle Eastern leaders were all in attendance. King Abdullah, King Mohammed of Morocco and Bashar al Assad were there too. The rest of the leaders were joking about leaving them outside and giving them some ice cream.

It was just a joke but I think that it holds some weight in what the rest of the leaders think of him. He hasn't been in power long enough and hasn't really had a chance to prove himself.

I belive that (God forbid) if here were to die, he wouldn't be mourned by the Jordanians in the way that his father was.

 

[shannen26]

Jordan is called the ME Switzerland, there must be a reason for it.... KA promised so much 5 years ago, I have hundreds of tapes with his speeches in '99 and in 2000- his start was good enough, now.... well, it's hard to say- he used to go around btw his ppl, as KH had always done, I can remember when he and his 4 brothers went to visit a widower with many kids, who had not even a house, he and Ali embraced her , KA promised her help, in a few days that woman and her kids had a brand new home, money to live, and stuff they needed such as clothes etc. - why isn't he doing it anymore ?

 

[Sean.~]

Originally posted by shannen26@Jan 11th, 2004 - 4:35 am
Jordan is called the ME Switzerland, there must be a reason for it.... KA promised so much 5 years ago, I have hundreds of tapes with his speeches in '99 and in 2000- his start was good enough, now.... well, it's hard to say- he used to go around btw his ppl, as KH had always done, I can remember when he and his 4 brothers  went to visit a widower with many kids, who had not even a house, he and Ali embraced her , KA promised her help, in a few days that woman and her kids had a brand new home, money to live, and stuff they needed such as clothes etc. - why isn't he doing it anymore ?

First, because such a policy is not sustainble. Second, it sounds like a band aid solution. Taking from the poor and giving back crumbs. You can't just ameliorate the life of one family for PR reasons while the cameras are present, while there are hundreds of thousands like them. There has to be social programs to ameliorate the lives of all of these people, irrespective of gender, ethnic background or political loyalties.

Sean

 

[Josefine]

how ols was he when the king died ?

 

[shannen26]

if u've read QN's auto-bio , Hamzah was enrolled in Harrow, he was not keen on being there in the 1st weeks, so KH told him he was there to get ready to be King 1 day, mind u, those were not the exact words, can't remeber them, now, but Hamzah was the fav son since his birth, he was enrolled in Harrow, which was so important to KH as he himself had been studying there, as soon as he was born- anyway, I came across a scandal which occured in 97 or 98 , involving Ali who was at Eckerd College in Florida, a girl was involved, too, , I am sure KH was told about it. KH's last letter, the 1 to his brother Hasan ,talked of Hamzah and Noor, I can remember well, KH's last interview, he talked alot about Hamzah, he called him- the apple of his eye- maybe Ali was the pref son be4e Hamzah's birth- have u ever read Ali's poem, he composed it for his parents when KH died. I'm sorry for Ali, I think he had a lonely life. That was so unfair.

 

[shannen26]

as KA told NY Times back in 2000, well, he said Hamzah would have been King 1 day if he had learnt from their uncle's mistakes- what did Hasan do ? he did slander and bash QN and her 4 kids, and he refused to promise that he was to make CP 1 of KH' sons- it was obvious he wanted Rachid to be his CP- KA and Feisal went to Mayo Clinic to tell their father what P Hasan and wife were doing, such as acting as if KH had already died and they were already King and Queen of Jordan, some say P Sarvath had already started to make changes both in the Royal Palace and in KH's Office. Back in 64, Abdullah could not be CP anymore as ppl started a violent protest against the kid being CP, as his mother was British, - to keep him safe , he was sent , he was only 2 and a half, to school in UK, alone !!!!

 

[shannen26]

He was not yet 19, being born in March, while KH died in Feb.

 

[wymanda]

Originally posted by akina21@Jan 10th, 2004 - 5:09 pm
The Jordanian RF is as evil and currup as any other ME government.There is only one difference between the governments of Syria (for example) and Jordan. Jordan does what the American government want them to do. There is no democracy, no free press and human rights are violated.

Who do you suggest for a democracy? The men who form the judiciary who condone honour killings by refusing to punish the perpetrators to the full extent of the law? Or maybe the members of the current parliament who defeat the laws to make honour killings illegal.

If King Abdullah was the absolute monarch you seem to think he is then he would disolve the parliament and, as his father wished to do, make such human rights abuses punishable by death.

Might I reccomend that you read Queen Noor's book "Leap of Faith" in which she details what King Hussien was trying to do on this front and his reasons for making Abdullah his heir rather than his brother.

I think that Abdullah and Rania are suffering the same problem as all other royal families: Young people do not see royalty as being particularly relevant to their lives.

The one critisism I would make of Rania is that she should wear Jordanian fashion more often, especially on state visits to other countries.

 

[wymanda]

I think that we may see the Jordanian throne passed around in the next few generations. I think Hamzah will become king but will make Hussein his heir. Fron there I think it may pass to Hamzah's sons and then, possibly, back to Hussein's offspring.

 

[shy]

with all respect 2all of the comments made here, but i honestly think that j ppl would ave preferred Ali as king, as he is arabic through & through.

x

 

[Josefine]

so does anyone know how old Hamzahwas when the king died?

 

[bluetortuga]

Hamzah was 6 weeks shy of his 19th birthday when K. Hussein died. He was of age of majority to rule, but I think K. Hussein wanted him to complete his education and gain more diplomatic experience before becoming king; so he passed the crown to Abdullah. K. Hussein always regretted that he never got the opportunity to complete his education; and that at 17 he felt unprepared to rule.

 

[trish79nl]

I was absolutly shocked when I read stuff about the kind abdullah and wife rania that people say that they're corrupt!!!!!
Yoe should be a shamed of you're sefl. Those peolple do a lot fot the jordanian people en they are absolutly nog corrupt!!!

If youhave feelings towards this family what on earth are you doing on THIS forum!!!!!!!!!!!!


A jordanian royalhouse lover!!!!!

 

[alia_musallam]

You were right about Ali being removed as deputy crown prince for personal reasons, at that time he apparently got caught up in a very bad crowd and was doing all sorts of things (he is still known as the wild prince) adn then KH found out and sent him to dry out. I feel very sorry for him, as it must have been very hard for him growing up as a previous poster send... i was told that he was sent off to live with one of the king's ex-wives after QN married KH and had her first child as she did not want her children to have to share the limelight with Ali, Haya and Abeer... evil stepmother syndrome? Maybe!

 

[bluetortuga]

The royal family of Jordan is not above criticism or compliment. If they do well, then they will be well-spoken of. If they do wrong, then they will be criticized for it. Just remember, rulers are only in place because the people allow them to be. If the people can tolerate a system, they will keep that system; if they cannot stand the system anymore, they will make changes. I think some of us on this board bring truth to light. The royals do some good; but they do bad too. Both sides need to be addressed. And if there are far more bad comments than good, then obviously, the royals are doing something very wrong.

Besides, this is what makes this board so exciting at times. I don't think there is an open forum in Jordan where people can openly voice their opinions without fear of retribution. If the Jordanian Royal Family wants to know how they are really doing they need to check this website.

 

[Sean.~]

I was absolutly shocked when I read stuff about the kind abdullah and wife rania that people say that they're corrupt!!!!!
Yoe should be a shamed of you're sefl. Those peolple do a lot fot the jordanian people en they are absolutly nog corrupt!!!

We'll you can be shocked all you want, but that does not mean the comments were inaccurate in any way. People have a right to express their views. What's more, in this instance, for the most part, it was done in an academic and analytical way. Indeed, if you have a problem with the substantive points made, why not refute them with your own facts and analysis, rather than criticizing those presented by others? As far as I'm concerned, there is nothing to be 'ashamed' of, as rulers leaders should always be held to account, otherwise things will never get done or change for the better. To insinuate that they are above reproach because they do good for Jordan is ludicrous, as far as I'm concerned. Despots come in all variations. Some are benevolent, while others are not.

If youhave feelings towards this family what on earth are you doing on THIS forum!!!!!!!!!!!!

The last time I checked this forum was not called 'Adulation of Royalty'. Rather, as far as I know, it is a forum to discuss royalty in all its aspects -- the good and the bad. In my view, it is very unwise to blindly follow anyone (royals or non-royal) and not ask critical questions. Complacency only leads to misery.

Regards,

S

 

[lynn]

If Hamzah is to succeed King Abdullah, is there any law or stipulations made by King Hussein that states that the King can abdicate at any time he feels Hamzah is ready or does Hamzah succeed when King Abdullah dies?