Royal Women with Illegitimate Children

[Yeine]

I'm interested in instances of royal-born women (who aren't Grimaldis) having children out of wedlock. I can think of only 3:

Princess Thyra of Denmark: had a daughter, Maria (b. 1871) by Vilhelm Frimann Marcher

Empress Marie-Louise of France: had 2 children, Albertine (b. 1817) & William Albert (b. 1819) by Count Adam Albert von Neipperg. Both born while she was still married to Napoleon I.

Empress Catherine II of Russia: had a son, Aleksey Grigorievich Bobrinsky (b. 1762) by Count Grigory Orlov.

Any contributions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Countessmeout]

Caroline Mathilda, a sister of George III, was the wife of Christian VII of Denmark. She had an affair with Johann Struensee, a doctor. Johann was later executed for the affair, and Caroline was imprisoned. Though recognized by Christian VII as his child, it is common thought that Louise Auguste was actually the daughter of Johann.

 

[Denville]

Caroline Mathilda, a sister of George III, was the wife of Christian VII of Denmark. She had an affair with Johann Struensee, a doctor. Johann was later executed for the affair, and Caroline was imprisoned. Though recognized by Christian VII as his child, it is common thought that Louise Auguste was actually the daughter of Johann.

There are not going to be many.. (Im a little amused at the "apart from the Grimaldis). Caro Matilda's daughter probably was by her lover but she was accepted as a Princess ….

 

[Yeine]

Caroline Mathilda, a sister of George III, was the wife of Christian VII of Denmark. She had an affair with Johann Struensee, a doctor. Johann was later executed for the affair, and Caroline was imprisoned. Though recognized by Christian VII as his child, it is common thought that Louise Auguste was actually the daughter of Johann.

Thanks Countessmeout, I don't know how I forgot Caroline Matilda, A Royal Affair is one of my all-time favourite royal biopics.

 

[Denville]

I'm interested in instances of royal-born women (who aren't Grimaldis) having children out of wedlock. I can think of only 3:

Princess Thyra of Denmark: had a daughter, Maria (b. 1871) by Vilhelm Frimann Marcher

Empress Marie-Louise of France: had 2 children, Albertine (b. 1817) & William Albert (b. 1819) by Count Adam Albert von Neipperg. Both born while she was still married to Napoleon I.

Empress Catherine II of Russia: had a son, Aleksey Grigorievich Bobrinsky (b. 1762) by Count Grigory Orlov.

Any contributions would be greatly appreciated.

I think Marie Louise had 3 but one child died. There is also a pretty strong rumour about Princess Sophia, daughter of George III, that she had a son by Thomas Garth, an equerry....

 

[Yeine]

I think Marie Louise had 3 but one child died.

The 3rd was born in 1822, after her parents' marriage in 1821, & therefore legitimate.

 

[Lee-Z]

Princess Marianne of the Netherlands had a son with her lover Johannes van Rossum in 1849
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Marianne_of_the_Netherlands

Queen Isabella II of Spain's children were rumoured to not all be by her husband
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isabella_II_of_Spain

 

[Moonmaiden23]

A much longer thread would have the title "Royal MEN With Children Out Of Wedlock"...

The numbers are astonishing.

 

[Yeine]

A much longer thread would have the title "Royal MEN With Children Out Of Wedlock"...

The numbers are astonishing.

that's precisely why the topic doesn't interest me. It's too commonplace to be fascinating.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

The 3rd was born in 1822, after her parents' marriage in 1821, & therefore legitimate.

As far as I have read, neither of the parents ever acknowledged legally that the three children were theirs, even though their genetic parentage became public knowledge.

In legal terms, I suppose the children listed in this thread were not actually "illegitimate", as either their legal father was the husband of their legal mother or neither of their genetic parents ever acknowledged them legally.

 

[Countessmeout]

Or cases where the couples eventually married, and their children were later legitimized by dispensation.

Mary Stewart, Countess of Arran's children are a prime example. Mary and her second husband were married in 1474. But the marriage was not legally recognized. It wasn't until the couple received a papal dispensation two years later they were recognized as married. Their eldest 2 children were born prior. Her eldest 2 were considered bastards until the dispensation, which legitimized them. Her daughter Elizabeth, one of those born prior to the dispensation, was the great-grandmother of Henry, Lord Darnley (her son John was his grandfather). It is through Mary that Darnley's family had their claim to the throne.

 

[Yeine]

In legal terms, I suppose the children listed in this thread were not actually "illegitimate", as either their legal father was the husband of their legal mother or neither of their genetic parents ever acknowledged them legally.

I suppose the more appropriate title would've been Royal Women with Children Born Out of Wedlock.

As far as I have read, neither of the parents ever acknowledged legally that the three children were theirs, even though their genetic parentage became public knowledge.

Really? I was under the impression that all 3 of the children born of the union were "acknowledged". Do you by any chance know by whom Charles Albert was created Prince of Montenuovo?

 

[Denville]

I suppose the more appropriate title would've been Royal Women with Children Born Out of Wedlock.



Really? I was under the impression that all 3 of the children born of the union were "acknowledged". Do you by any chance know by whom Charles Albert was created Prince of Montenuovo?

I don't think they were acknowledged. Neipperg did marry ML but morganatically..

 

[Countessmeout]

I don't think they were acknowledged. Neipperg did marry ML but morganatically..

Yes, the marriage was morganatic. But the question was if their parents ever acknowledged the three children were their children. Not 'hidden children'. The answer is yes, the couple recognized all three children as their own.

Due to the morganatic marriage, they were not recognized as heir to their mother's title. But they were given the title Count/Countess of Montonuevo, an Italian form of their father's title. Their son was elevated to Prince of Montonuevo.

 

[Denville]

Yes, the marriage was morganatic. But the question was if their parents ever acknowledged the three children were their children. Not 'hidden children'. The answer is yes, the couple recognized all three children as their own.

Due to the morganatic marriage, they were not recognized as heir to their mother's title. But they were given the title Count/Countess of Montonuevo, an Italian form of their father's title. Their son was elevated to Prince of Montonuevo.

Yes I know the question was.. but I wasn't sure if ML had ever admitted that she had had children by Neipperg. I assumed the marriage was known but not admitted...

 

[Heavs]

There are probably quite a few children who were acknowledged by the woman's husband that were not actually his biological children, especially if they were "spares". I read a book once that claimed it was common and often the King knew about it but accepted them so as not to be mocked as a cuckold or have his heir's legitimacy questioned. Not entirely sure if that was the actual case or not.

 

[JR76]

Duchess Marie of Mecklenburg-Strelitz, who later married Count Georg Jametel and Prince Julius Ernst of Lippe, gave birth to a daughter out of wedlock in 1898

 

[Kataryn]

Today we have the case of "Xenia Prinzessin und Herzogin von Sachsen" who is named thus because her mother, Iris Prinzessin und Herzogin von Sachsen did not name a father (though I recently read anyone who wanted to know knew who the girl's father is) - so in former times she would have been considered "non existent" but today she has a right to her mother's name and thus is regarded by "normal" people as a real princess.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Really? I was under the impression that all 3 of the children born of the union were "acknowledged".

But the question was if their parents ever acknowledged the three children were their children. Not 'hidden children'. The answer is yes, the couple recognized all three children as their own.

I think I first read the information about the lack of a legal acknowledgement on the website of the Italian region of Emilia-Romagna.

Montenuovo Albertina — Pari opportunità

The article states that Count Neipperg mentioned the children in his will together with his desire for Duchess Maria Luigia to adopt them after his death (which I imagine would be unnecessary if they had already been legally recognized). It further says the Duchess acknowledged their births in a secret document but never legally adopted them.

But if either of you have found a more reliable source stating differently, please share it.

Do you by any chance know by whom Charles Albert was created Prince of Montenuovo?

I'm sorry I don't know, but my guess is that it was the Austrian emperor.

 

[Lee-Z]

For more current day:
Archduchess Gabriella of Austria has a daughter (with her fiancee) in 2017, so technically also "out of wedlock"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archduke_Carl_Christian_of_Austria

 

[Denville]

There are probably quite a few children who were acknowledged by the woman's husband that were not actually his biological children, especially if they were "spares". I read a book once that claimed it was common and often the King knew about it but accepted them so as not to be mocked as a cuckold or have his heir's legitimacy questioned. Not entirely sure if that was the actual case or not.

I should not think it was common for Kings to look the other way, over an illegitimate child....Of course it might occasionally happen that he iddn't know he wasn't the father....

 

[Tatiana Maria]

There are probably quite a few children who were acknowledged by the woman's husband that were not actually his biological children, especially if they were "spares". I read a book once that claimed it was common and often the King knew about it but accepted them so as not to be mocked as a cuckold or have his heir's legitimacy questioned. Not entirely sure if that was the actual case or not.

I should not think it was common for Kings to look the other way, over an illegitimate child....Of course it might occasionally happen that he iddn't know he wasn't the father....

In most judicial systems no acknowledgement from the husband would be required as, under most circumstances, a child birthed by a married woman was and still would be considered in law to be the child of her husband.

 

[Thena]

There are probably quite a few children who were acknowledged by the woman's husband that were not actually his biological children, especially if they were "spares". I read a book once that claimed it was common and often the King knew about it but accepted them so as not to be mocked as a cuckold or have his heir's legitimacy questioned. Not entirely sure if that was the actual case or not.

A good example would be the later children of Grand Duchess Wilhelmine of Hesse, wife of Louis II of Hesse. The marriage was unhappy; there was a wide age difference between the two and Louis had his own extramarital affairs. After Wilhelmine provided an heir and a spare (the future Louis III and Prince Karl, respectively) she moved into Heiligenberg Castle. After embarking on an affair with Baron August von Senarclens de Grancy in 1820, she gave birth to an additional four children. Louis acknowledged them as his own, but it was well-known that the Grand Duke and Grand Duchess were not even living together.

Only the two youngest, Alexander and Marie, survived to adulthood and made a rather spectacular mark on history. Marie became Empress of Russia as the wife of Tsar Alexander II. Reportedly when courtiers tried to whisper to Alexander about the rumors of Marie's parentage, he responded with the allegations that his own ancestor Paul I wasn't the actual son of Peter III. Meanwhile, Alexander morgantically married Countess Julia von Hauke, Princess of Battenberg. Among his descendants are King Felipe of Spain and Prince Philip.

 

[Denville]

In most judicial systems no acknowledgement from the husband would be required as, under most circumstances, a child birthed by a married woman was and still would be considered in law to be the child of her husband.

That's not what I meant

 

[Denville]

A good example would be the later children of Grand Duchess Wilhelmine of Hesse, wife of Louis II of Hesse. The marriage was unhappy; there was a wide age difference between the two and Louis had his own extramarital affairs. After Wilhelmine provided an heir and a spare (the future Louis III and Prince Karl, respectively) she moved into Heiligenberg Castle. After embarking on an affair with Baron August von Senarclens de Grancy in 1820, she gave birth to an additional four children. Louis acknowledged them as his own, but it was well-known that the Grand Duke and Grand Duchess were not even living together.

Only the two youngest, Alexander and Marie, survived to adulthood and made a rather spectacular mark on history. Marie became Empress of Russia as the wife of Tsar Alexander II. Reportedly when courtiers tried to whisper to Alexander about the rumors of Marie's parentage, he responded with the allegations that his own ancestor Paul I wasn't the actual son of Peter III. Meanwhile, Alexander morgantically married Countess Julia von Hauke, Princess of Battenberg. Among his descendants are King Felipe of Spain and Prince Philip.

I'd say though that this was very rare. There might be the occasional husband who would look the other way if he did not want to divorce his wife, or cause a scandal.. but I really find it hard to believe that a LOT of royal wives had fully consummated affairs resulting In children. Even in the later 19th C when there was a bit more leniency...

 

[Yeine]

I think I first read the information about the lack of a legal acknowledgement on the website of the Italian region of Emilia-Romagna.

Montenuovo Albertina — Pari opportunità

The article states that Count Neipperg mentioned the children in his will together with his desire for Duchess Maria Luigia to adopt them after his death (which I imagine would be unnecessary if they had already been legally recognized). It further says the Duchess acknowledged their births in a secret document but never legally adopted them.

But if either of you have found a more reliable source stating differently, please share it.



I'm sorry I don't know, but my guess is that it was the Austrian emperor.

Thanks for the link Tatiana Maria, it was a fascinating read. I learned a lot of new information. Interestingly, the link mentions two sons. I've seen no mention of a second son anywhere else, only a daughter who died young.

I think your standards for what constitutes an acknowledgement are far more stringent than mine. To me, the fact that they were not given up for adoption, had contact with their mother throughout their lives and were given titles that referenced their paternal heritage ( & now their being acknowledged in von Neipperg's will) is acknowledgement enough.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Thanks for the link Tatiana Maria, it was a fascinating read. I learned a lot of new information. Interestingly, the link mentions two sons. I've seen no mention of a second son anywhere else, only a daughter who died young.

I'm glad that you enjoyed reading it! I found it an interesting read as well. Actually, after a second glance, it seems to mention only two children (Albertina and Guglielmo) who were born to Duchess Maria Luigia of Parma and Count von Neipperg, but that may very well be because any other sibling(s) did not survive. I think the two sons mentioned are the sons of Albertina.

I think your standards for what constitutes an acknowledgement are far more stringent than mine. To me, the fact that they were not given up for adoption, had contact with their mother throughout their lives and were given titles that referenced their paternal heritage ( & now their being acknowledged in von Neipperg's will) is acknowledgement enough.

In my earlier posts I stipulated that I was addressing legal acknowledgement. The discussion began with the topic of their legitimacy; in order to be the legitimate children of the Duchess it would have been necessary that she become their legal mother and not only their biological mother. But to the children themselves, as you pointed out, it may have been more meaningful to have an actual relationship with their birth mother than to seek to have their maternity acknowledged in the judicial system.

From a modern perspective, it is interesting that numerous royals of the past provided their children born out of wedlock with unofficial acknowledgement and privileges without granting a judicial acknowledgement, whereas in present-day Europe the opposite seems more frequent.

 

[Denville]

Thanks for the link Tatiana Maria, it was a fascinating read. I learned a lot of new information. Interestingly, the link mentions two sons. I've seen no mention of a second son anywhere else, only a daughter who died young.

I think your standards for what constitutes an acknowledgement are far more stringent than mine. To me, the fact that they were not given up for adoption, had contact with their mother throughout their lives and were given titles that referenced their paternal heritage ( & now their being acknowledged in von Neipperg's will) is acknowledgement enough.

I would agree that they weren't acknowledged. I think at the time it would have ben impossible for ML to acknowledge them.. It was of course known by the court and also probably by the people that she had children by Neipperg but she could not have come out and said so officially.. Her marriage had to be morganatic, and the children born before it, were looked after and kept close to their parents but that wasnt' acknowledgement

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Princess Marianne of the Netherlands, Princess of Orange-Nassau (1810-1883) was the youngest child and only surviving daughter of King Willem I and Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands born Princess of Prussia.

In 1830 Princess Marianne married her cousin Prince Albrecht of Prussia. Despite the fact that the two knew each other since childhood, the marriage was not a happy one, especially due to extramarital escapades of the Prince. The couple got five children, three survived into adulthood.

The marriage was so bad that Princess Marianne did separate from Prince Albrecht in 1845. Her brother, King Willem II of the Netherlands refused a divorce. In 1848 Princess Marianne bought a stately home near The Hague. There she openly had a liaison wirh her coachman Johannes van Rossum.

When the Princess was pregnant in 1849, her brother King Willem II finally agreed in a divorce. However he ruled that his sister should preferrably not live together with her lover and child. Princess Marianne then bought Schloss Reinhartshausen near Erbach in the Dukedom of Nassau.

There the Princess lived openly with her partner Johannes and her illegitimate son, who was named Johann Wilhelm von Reinhartshausen (approved by the Duke of Nassau). The boy died at the age of 12, on Christmas Day 1861. (See picture of the boy: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...shausen.jpg/220px-JohannesReinhartshausen.jpg)

Princess Marianne ordered the construction of the Johannes Church in Erbach where her son is interred (see picture https://img.fotocommunity.com/erbac...3-8486-4ca6-868c-1210bc7b4d21.jpg?height=1080)

 

[Osipi]

The first thing that entered my mind after reading the title of this thread was the ever popular and ongoing theory that Sir Francis Bacon is, in fact, the son of Queen Elizabeth I.

Bacon's Royal Parentage