Restoration of the Monarchy in Romania
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Cory
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Benedict XVI
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Cory said:
Does anyone have a statistic on the percentage of romanians that support the return of the monarchy?
Cory
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Politicians from PNL (one of the two big parties of the government coalition) discussed the possibilities for the restoration of Monarchy in Romania:
Ramona Manescu: Crin Antonescu ar putea pregati legislativ trecerea la monarhie
Ramona Manescu: Crin Antonescu ar putea pregati legislativ trecerea la monarhie
In the last days, some extremely devoted people managed to gather signatures for a petition which is expected to be read tomorrow in the Parliament. It referes to the day of 10th of May, the former romanian National Day; there was a law project that passed the Senate last year in November which included the 10th of May between the national festival days. Now it needs the vote in the Chamber of Deputies to become officially a law.
It will be read by Toader Paleologu, a strong monarchist among the romanian deputies.
It will be read by Toader Paleologu, a strong monarchist among the romanian deputies.
Benedict XVI
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latinist said:
This is a huge moment for monarchists in Romania and everyone who just plain loves monarchies. Has Romania returned some ancestral lands back to the royal family? And make peace with the royalty?
The Peles domain has been retrocessioned to the Royal Family during the Liberal Party government, as far as I know... Former liberal president and prime-minister C. P. Tariceanu is a convinced monarchist.
Unfortunately there are still people (pretty much) who don't understand the values of the royalty and the opportunities that come along with it. There are still quite a lot of people (on the social networks at least) who persist on a distorsioned vision regarding our recent history and what happened in WW II, in direct reference to HM the King and the former marshall Antonescu (who even now is considered by some people a "hero") and the events that took place on the 23rd of august 1944. They say that we, the others should learn the "real" history...(as if the nazis could have had a chance of winning the war...). Fortunately this category of people is rather small.
There is another category of people who are still under some kind of "brainwashing" due to the communist propaganda beginning with the day of the so-called abdication of the King, in which it was said HM would have gone with lots of railway-carriages full of fortunes...the "people's fortunes", of course. Aproximately the same people accuse HM of the fact that since his return he was supposed to have done nothing for the people, only getting back the former properties of the Royal Family, nationalized by the communists in early 1948. A communist way of thinking, if you ask me... This category is larger than the first one, I think.
There is another category of people who simply don't know much about royalty and about history (the way history is being teached in our schools is a real mess!) and politics as well, who usually don't go voting at the elections... Apathy and lack of interest are the words that describe them best.
And finally, we, monarchists, are growing day by day. There are more and more of us, I think since last year there has been a real emulation in our society, due to the King's speech in the Parliament. The burst of the protests this winter emphasized this feeling that something must be changed in the way things go.
Another crucial moment was the Queen's Jubilee from last week, when the King stood at her right side in the official picture, which pointed out the extraordinary amount of respect and consideration HM (and the rest of our Royal Family) has among the important figures of the european royalty and not only. UNLIKE the image our president has now and in the last few years...
I think the chances of restoration look much better now than a few years ago for instance.
Unfortunately there are still people (pretty much) who don't understand the values of the royalty and the opportunities that come along with it. There are still quite a lot of people (on the social networks at least) who persist on a distorsioned vision regarding our recent history and what happened in WW II, in direct reference to HM the King and the former marshall Antonescu (who even now is considered by some people a "hero") and the events that took place on the 23rd of august 1944. They say that we, the others should learn the "real" history...(as if the nazis could have had a chance of winning the war...). Fortunately this category of people is rather small.
There is another category of people who are still under some kind of "brainwashing" due to the communist propaganda beginning with the day of the so-called abdication of the King, in which it was said HM would have gone with lots of railway-carriages full of fortunes...the "people's fortunes", of course. Aproximately the same people accuse HM of the fact that since his return he was supposed to have done nothing for the people, only getting back the former properties of the Royal Family, nationalized by the communists in early 1948. A communist way of thinking, if you ask me... This category is larger than the first one, I think.
There is another category of people who simply don't know much about royalty and about history (the way history is being teached in our schools is a real mess!) and politics as well, who usually don't go voting at the elections... Apathy and lack of interest are the words that describe them best.
And finally, we, monarchists, are growing day by day. There are more and more of us, I think since last year there has been a real emulation in our society, due to the King's speech in the Parliament. The burst of the protests this winter emphasized this feeling that something must be changed in the way things go.
Another crucial moment was the Queen's Jubilee from last week, when the King stood at her right side in the official picture, which pointed out the extraordinary amount of respect and consideration HM (and the rest of our Royal Family) has among the important figures of the european royalty and not only. UNLIKE the image our president has now and in the last few years...
I think the chances of restoration look much better now than a few years ago for instance.
Regarding the petition...
The signatures were gathered up, and still going. Normally today it should have been read, but unfortunately T. Paleologu couldn't read it because of the absences in the Chamber. The deputies are "busy with the local election campaign". But when it came to something that really interested them, such as the new election law, they were promptly present in the Chamber, quickly ready to vote for that!
The monarchist Paleologu just signed the document and registered it at the bureau of the chamber, remaining that it should be further insisted on the cause. By gathering more signatures and by hoping in finding a good moment in the Parliament, to "strike".
The signatures were gathered up, and still going. Normally today it should have been read, but unfortunately T. Paleologu couldn't read it because of the absences in the Chamber. The deputies are "busy with the local election campaign". But when it came to something that really interested them, such as the new election law, they were promptly present in the Chamber, quickly ready to vote for that!
The monarchist Paleologu just signed the document and registered it at the bureau of the chamber, remaining that it should be further insisted on the cause. By gathering more signatures and by hoping in finding a good moment in the Parliament, to "strike".
Benedict XVI
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It oddly enough sounds like the congress we have back here in the states. Could you tell me the standings on each of the parties whether for or against a monarchy and then how many seats they have in the parliament?
Well...sadly the moment we speak there is only ONE party in the Parliament in favour (at least theoretically) of the monarchy, the National Liberal Party. They form an alliance with a small party, the Conservative Party. The two of them are allied with the third, the Social-Democrate Party, forming a strong political alliance that now managed to pull down the former government through a motion of confidence in the Parliament and they are now forming the new government.
There is also the Democrate-Liberal Party which has been governing since the end of 2008, now very impopular and most likely to lose severely at the next elections. There would be also the party of the hungarian minority, a smaller one, and...how should I say it... I'm really ashame of that, but there is a "party" now in the Parliament consisting of deputies and senators who "ran" from their original parties, under misterious presures (penal files most likely - most of the prosecutors are politically controlable), from the coalition in power (they were then in the opposition) and from the actual president of the country (he needed a comfortable majority in the Parliament to be on "his side", so that he wouldn't be suspended again like in 2007).
In november there will be parlamentary elections, most probably the coalition formed by the three parties I've mentioned at the beginning will obtain a score between 55 and 65 % of the votes, maybe even more, now with the new election law (just like the election law in Great Britain). The rest of the parties that are supposed to enter the new Parliament cannot be suspected of monarchist simpathies. Only some of their members in particular maybe, like T. Paleologu, who was supposed to read the petition in the Deputies Chamber.
The Social-Democrate Party is officially not a monarchist one, although it can be assumed that it has also monarchist members. The responsibility of a future restoration will be an issue of the Liberal Party. The president of the party, Crin Antonescu is a declared monarchist, but he seeks to become president of the republic. No one knows what he will do after he manages to get elected as president (he is by far the great favourite for that)...if he would support the restoration or not.
Basicly, if the social-democrates could be convinced by their partners the liberals of the necessity of restoring the monarchy...things would become extremely simple. They will be forming a large parliamentary majority, could be even 70%...and then they could easily write a new constitution, with the form of government changed.
There is also the Democrate-Liberal Party which has been governing since the end of 2008, now very impopular and most likely to lose severely at the next elections. There would be also the party of the hungarian minority, a smaller one, and...how should I say it... I'm really ashame of that, but there is a "party" now in the Parliament consisting of deputies and senators who "ran" from their original parties, under misterious presures (penal files most likely - most of the prosecutors are politically controlable), from the coalition in power (they were then in the opposition) and from the actual president of the country (he needed a comfortable majority in the Parliament to be on "his side", so that he wouldn't be suspended again like in 2007).
In november there will be parlamentary elections, most probably the coalition formed by the three parties I've mentioned at the beginning will obtain a score between 55 and 65 % of the votes, maybe even more, now with the new election law (just like the election law in Great Britain). The rest of the parties that are supposed to enter the new Parliament cannot be suspected of monarchist simpathies. Only some of their members in particular maybe, like T. Paleologu, who was supposed to read the petition in the Deputies Chamber.
The Social-Democrate Party is officially not a monarchist one, although it can be assumed that it has also monarchist members. The responsibility of a future restoration will be an issue of the Liberal Party. The president of the party, Crin Antonescu is a declared monarchist, but he seeks to become president of the republic. No one knows what he will do after he manages to get elected as president (he is by far the great favourite for that)...if he would support the restoration or not.
Basicly, if the social-democrates could be convinced by their partners the liberals of the necessity of restoring the monarchy...things would become extremely simple. They will be forming a large parliamentary majority, could be even 70%...and then they could easily write a new constitution, with the form of government changed.
Cory
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Not all members of PNL are royalists.
There are liberals that prefere the republic even if not a presidential one.
The Romanian Royals are not involved in politics at all because they represent much more than that: the identity of the people.
All the recent polls ask about the popularity of the King but do not ask clearly about Monarchy.
HM King Mihai I had never been involved in politics because He has always respected his constitutional role. Carol I and Ferdinand I had acted the same. Carol II was an exception between 1938-1940.
Only the Restoration of Monarchy could bring a real balance in the Romanian constitutional and political realities.
All those who know Romanian history and are against the communists consider the Sovereign as the symbol of democracy.
The role of Ion Antonescu in the Romanian history is a continue debate and the supporters of the republican leader Basescu try to use the name of Antonescu against the Sovereign without much success.
There are liberals that prefere the republic even if not a presidential one.
The Romanian Royals are not involved in politics at all because they represent much more than that: the identity of the people.
All the recent polls ask about the popularity of the King but do not ask clearly about Monarchy.
HM King Mihai I had never been involved in politics because He has always respected his constitutional role. Carol I and Ferdinand I had acted the same. Carol II was an exception between 1938-1940.
Only the Restoration of Monarchy could bring a real balance in the Romanian constitutional and political realities.
All those who know Romanian history and are against the communists consider the Sovereign as the symbol of democracy.
The role of Ion Antonescu in the Romanian history is a continue debate and the supporters of the republican leader Basescu try to use the name of Antonescu against the Sovereign without much success.
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Has the Romanian Royal Family traditionally sided with one of the main parties, or expressed views in support of certain political viewpoints? Or has the Royal Family been completely neutral, like Queen Elizabeth?
It seems like left-wing parties in many monarchies are anti-royalist. Unfortunate.
It seems like left-wing parties in many monarchies are anti-royalist. Unfortunate.
NGalitzine
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I know King Michael is personally quite popular, which may reflect the man or perhaps nostalgia for an almost forgotten pre war era, , but has a poll ever been done asking the Roumanian people if they actually want a restored monarchy?
Michael isn't getting any younger, so people would have to take into account that they would really be voting to put his daughter and son in law and then eventually his grandson on the throne.
Michael isn't getting any younger, so people would have to take into account that they would really be voting to put his daughter and son in law and then eventually his grandson on the throne.
But throughout history, didn't the Royal Family get involved in politics? Didn't King Michael pick prime ministers in the 1940s? Didn't King Carol even change the Constitution in the 1930s? If so, did the Royal Family's actions generally lean one way in politics?
It is true that the way the king (as a figure) had behaved in the Constitutional game was not exactly what you may call entirely "neutral", especially when we think of King Carol I...he always had a good relationship with the liberals, with Ion Bratianu particularly. It wasn't something that had done any damage to the young modern romanian democracy anyway, the king knew exactly how to exercise his function, to him the duty and devotion for the country and for the state was everything.
King Ferdinand was more neutral, he understood perfectly the importance of a new political force to be formed, for the balance of the entire romanian political scene at that time (the birth of the National Peasants Party by the fusion of two parties), in opposition to the liberals.
King Michael was also forced to involve more into the state problems, constitutionally-political issues, due to the extremely dramatic situation in which Romania had entered during and after the war.
Of course, King Carol II was a real failure...
But now we're living different times and the Royal Family is really neutral, with a very decent and elegant public behaviour, with more and more credit from the people, a very good public image... It could really be the solution. It is actually. There's just the need of a little more time so that a sufficient amount of people realize this.
Do people in Romania remember much about the years 1940-1944 and Ion Antonescu's rule? If so, does it help or hurt King Michael? I would think that being king during a dictatorship and war would make it difficult for King Michael to come across as a guarantor of democracy, right?
BeatrixFan
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It seems to be that the Romanian President is pretty desperate to discredit the royal family in whatever way he can. Which is telling in itself as he obviously considers them a realistic threat to his own position.
Artemisia
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No Head of State is going to willingly succumb his/her position to anyone else; however, it has been my impression that Basescu has always had reasonably good relationship with King Michael, and especially Crown Princess Margareta and Prince Radu. For instance, during Prince Charles' recent private visit to Romania, the President hosted a reception at the Cotroceni Palace; the Crown Princess and Prince Radu were guests of honour and had the senior-most position immediately after the President and above Prime Minister Ponta.
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The republican leader has NO connection with the Royal Family.
I did not see anything on the official site of the Royal Family (Familia Regala - Acasa) or on the blog of HRH Prince Radu (Romania. Altfel | Un blog de Principele Radu al Romaniei) about any recent participation of HRH Crown Princess Margareta at any event at Cotroceni Palace. The royal couple attended a reception in the Arenas of the National Bank together with HRH the Prince of Wales in honour of the Diamond Jubilee of HM Queen Elisabeth II (http://www.princeradublog.ro/jurnal/impreuna-cu-principele-charles-la-arenele-bnr/).
I did not see anything on the official site of the Royal Family (Familia Regala - Acasa) or on the blog of HRH Prince Radu (Romania. Altfel | Un blog de Principele Radu al Romaniei) about any recent participation of HRH Crown Princess Margareta at any event at Cotroceni Palace. The royal couple attended a reception in the Arenas of the National Bank together with HRH the Prince of Wales in honour of the Diamond Jubilee of HM Queen Elisabeth II (http://www.princeradublog.ro/jurnal/impreuna-cu-principele-charles-la-arenele-bnr/).
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Artemisia
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I made my comment based on three articles. The links to English-language ones is posted below; I'll post the one in Romanian later.
The use of "Royal Highness" by Prince Charles in his speech at Cotroceni Palace clearly indicates the Crown Princess was there (as is also stated in the second article). In addition, the article in Romanian stated they were seated in "higher position" that the young Prime Minister.
Prince Charles visiting Cotroceni Palace | ACTMedia
Romania Insider stories: The Prince of Wales in Bucharest | Daily news in English from Romania - Romania-Insider.com
Cory
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Just try to read carefully the articles and you will see the reception at which Crown Princess Margareta participated was NOT at Cotroceni Palace but, as I had already said before, at the Arenas of the National Bank.
Not in this moment anyhow.
Every Saturday at 1.00 p.m. will be an hour dedicated to the Royal Family at the TVR (Romanian National Television):
“Ora Regelui”, o nou
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ora-Regelui/389716261087758
This hour will be prepared by a team formed by Camelia Csiki, Cristina Ţilică, Bogdan Serban Iancu and Marilena Rotaru.
These days in the middle of a political and constitutional turmoil many Romanians think about the restoration of Monarchy.
Every Saturday at the Romanian National Television (TVR1) will be an hour dedicated to the history of the Romanian Monarchy and to the news about the Royal Family today. Here you can see the first two parts (on the 7th and on the 14th of July 2012):
Ora regelui
Ora regelui
A totally new Constitution would be the solution.
In this moment we must see if Traian Basescu loses his power after the referendum of the 29th of July. If this really happens there are real chances for a Restoration.
Not in this moment anyhow.
Every Saturday at 1.00 p.m. will be an hour dedicated to the Royal Family at the TVR (Romanian National Television):
“Ora Regelui”, o nou
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ora-Regelui/389716261087758
This hour will be prepared by a team formed by Camelia Csiki, Cristina Ţilică, Bogdan Serban Iancu and Marilena Rotaru.
These days in the middle of a political and constitutional turmoil many Romanians think about the restoration of Monarchy.
Every Saturday at the Romanian National Television (TVR1) will be an hour dedicated to the history of the Romanian Monarchy and to the news about the Royal Family today. Here you can see the first two parts (on the 7th and on the 14th of July 2012):
Ora regelui
Ora regelui
A totally new Constitution would be the solution.
In this moment we must see if Traian Basescu loses his power after the referendum of the 29th of July. If this really happens there are real chances for a Restoration.
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BeatrixFan
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With the news that the President has been suspended, could this mean that now the question of restoration is brought into parliament?
BBC News - Romanian parliament votes to suspend President Basescu
BBC News - Romanian parliament votes to suspend President Basescu
BeatrixFan
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This is wonderful news. This sudden surge in popularity can only be a good thing.
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I'm a Romanian ultra-royalist and don't have too much love for the "democratic monarchy", but I must state that even though more and more romanians are in favour of the restoration, the opposition is fierce. Mainly because communism left very deep scars in the people of Romania and also because the criminal internationalist lobby for republican democracy and egalitarianism in the western world has effect on even more young people.
To change the form of government of Romania, the constitution has to be changed twice. First to remove the article that bans the change from republic and second to actually change it from republic to whatever.
To change the form of government of Romania, the constitution has to be changed twice. First to remove the article that bans the change from republic and second to actually change it from republic to whatever.
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As a Romanian what do you think the likelihood is that there will be a restoration? Is it really politically viable at all?
I am currently reading Mihail Sebastian's Journal, 1935-1944. All I can say is:
How did King Michael turn out so well?
His father, King Carol II, seemed to have no morals and treated his wife and others terribly. King Michael, conversely, is a good family man, religious and never seems to have caused any kind of scandal.
His father, King Carol II, seemed to allow Romania to be a semi-democratic country in the 1930s and allowed all sorts of horrible things to take place, from government censorship to murders of political opponents to imposition of dictatorship, even during peacetime. King Michael, conversely, tolerated dictatorship only as long as he had to, and has fought for democracy.
How did King Michael turn out so well? Was his mother a saint or something? Romania is fortunate to have him- and any country would be blessed to have him as King.
How did King Michael turn out so well?
His father, King Carol II, seemed to have no morals and treated his wife and others terribly. King Michael, conversely, is a good family man, religious and never seems to have caused any kind of scandal.
His father, King Carol II, seemed to allow Romania to be a semi-democratic country in the 1930s and allowed all sorts of horrible things to take place, from government censorship to murders of political opponents to imposition of dictatorship, even during peacetime. King Michael, conversely, tolerated dictatorship only as long as he had to, and has fought for democracy.
How did King Michael turn out so well? Was his mother a saint or something? Romania is fortunate to have him- and any country would be blessed to have him as King.
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