Remembrance Day Services 2: 2022 -


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Hans-Rickard said:
I am not one of them myself but i have my utmost respect also for them… Because as important as it is that we remember, it is also often only one side of the history, the ”good side” and their descendants that we get to see on tv-channels and in the newspapers…. The countless of descendants of those who were on the ”wrong side” of the history is rarely seen, rarely heard… But they exist too, and many of them carries feelings of inherited guilt and inherited shame for something that a previous family-generation did…. I think these people also deserves a thought or two because you certainly won’t see them being interviewed on BBC or SkyNews…
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The Daily Telegraph published an interview earlier this week with a grandson of Himmler. Unfortunately, the online version's behind a paywall. His grandmother was Himmler's mistress. She later married, and the grandchildren thought until recently that her husband was their biological grandfather. But there are others who've always known: I know that there've been books and TV programmes about them.
 
Toledo said:
Here, on Tuesday Nov 11th, USA celebrates Veteran's Day just like the UK and remind everyone its about the end of WWII, plus other military conflicts that affected every nation.

en.wikipedia.org

Veterans Day - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

The UK's Remembrance Day is so respectful of these veterans in those pics and articles. Here in the USA it has become a day to promote sales at the stores without touching the subject this is really about men and women that defended entire countries.
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Maybe you made a typo. Here in the US we celebrate Veterans Day on the 11th day of the 11th month at the 11th hour which was when WW1 ended. It was called Armistice Day until 1954 and then renamed Veterans Day to include veterans of all wars and conflicts. Unfortunately WWI was not the”war to end all wars”.
 
Hans-Rickard said:
It is also worth to remember that this is a day that means a lot of things for different people…. Maybe it is a provocative thought… Then so be it because it is the truth…

While i have my utmost respect for the veterans marching past and the sacrifices they have made and the horrible memories and wounds many of them are carrying in their bodies and soul’s for the rest of their lives - it is also a day that not is a day of happiness for everyone…

Countless of eueopean citizens (and ofcourse also countless of citizens of other parts of the world) are descendants of people who were on the wrong side of history and who committed the worst imaginable war crimes and crimes against humanity…. That is not a small group of people… It it countless of millions… For many of those descendants this is also a day of heartbreak and painful memories of a family-history they don’t want to remember and absolutely don’t want to talk about or hear about….

I am not one of them myself but i have my utmost respect also for them… Because as important as it is that we remember, it is also often only one side of the history, the ”good side” and their descendants that we get to see on tv-channels and in the newspapers…. The countless of descendants of those who were on the ”wrong side” of the history is rarely seen, rarely heard… But they exist too, and many of them carries feelings of inherited guilt and inherited shame for something that a previous family-generation did…. I think these people also deserves a thought or two because you certainly won’t see them being interviewed on BBC or SkyNews…
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It's not just about the Nazis in the upper political parties and decision makers, whose children and grandchildren suffer from the guilt of their fathers/grandfathers.
It's also about millions of other, ordinary citizens who weren't Hitler's followers but didn't dare to rebel. The post-war generation, to which I belong, repeatedly asked their parents and grandparents, "How could you have allowed this?" Then you hear different life stories.
My aunt was engaged to a German Jew. He fled to Great Britain when it became dangerous for him. She never saw him again.
In my mother's sports club there were people who were Hitler supporters. If anyone tried to convince such people otherwise, they threatened to report them, that's what my mother told me. Nobody had the courage to contradict them. You can blame the entire nation for why they didn't collectively resisted the Nazi terror regime.
Our history and guilt was discussed extensively in school, numerous documentaries, books, movies have been published and are still being shown on TV. I hope it will continue in the future. There are people who say "It is enough, I don't want to hear about this anymore" . I am convinced that we should never cease to remember this part of history for future generations in this country, as a constant warning that something like this must never again be initiated by our nation.
The guilt, even though I didn't belong to that generation, is still there; And that's how it is for many others, even though my or their family members were not Nazi supporters.
But that is one reason why reconciliation is so important. It has now been 80 years, and I am grateful that we have achieved this reconciliation with most nations.
 
Frelinghighness said:
Maybe you made a typo. Here in the US we celebrate Veterans Day on the 11th day of the 11th month at the 11th hour which was when WW1 ended. It was called Armistice Day until 1954 and then renamed Veterans Day to include veterans of all wars and conflicts. Unfortunately WWI was not the”war to end all wars”.
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??? I think that's what I mentioned, because I searched the date first to make sure it was the same as on my cellphone calendar. We have it online on Tuesday, Nov 11th.
BTW, thanks for the detail on the number 11, that's interesting and I didn't know about it. As a matter of fact, when I retired five years ago I can admit I stop tracking down holidays since every day of retirement is freedom from calendars and alarm clocks. :)

 
Toledo said:
??? I think that's what I mentioned, because I searched the date first to make sure it was the same as on my cellphone calendar. We have it online on Tuesday, Nov 11th.
BTW, thanks for the detail on the number 11, that's interesting and I didn't know about it. As a matter of fact, when I retired five years ago I can admit I stop tracking down holidays since every day of retirement is freedom from calendars and alarm clocks. :)

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Just that you said it was about the end of WWII not WWI that’s why I said maybe it was a typo. I learned the 11/11 at 11am from when my kids did history, I don’t think we were taught that 😉
 
The eleventh hour signal ending the fighting in WW1 in the trenches and elsewhere was an arbitrary thing anyway, chosen to give the authorities time to pass the word down to officers in the field in an age where there were very few phones or wireless transmissions.

The actual Armistice treaty had been signed at 5am that morning but it was felt the the 11/11 signal would be much more clearly transmitted over the wires etc than any other hour on that day. Sadly some officers were still sending men out to die in the hours before 11am.
 
The Prince of Wales will be a guest at the Remembrance Assembly 2025 that will be streamed tomorrow, November 11 (live link below):


Our annual Remembrance Assembly is back, and in 2025 we will be featuring a very special guest - His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales.
Hosted by veteran and presenter JJ Chalmers, the Assembly combines music, art, poetry and interviews with the Armed Forces community to create an inspiring programme for students aged 9–14 (years 5–9).

Created in partnership with the National Literacy Trust, this digital learning event will be streamed on Tuesday 11th November from 10.25am – 11.05am via YouTube.

The Remembrance Assembly 2025 is the ideal way to help your students discover the service that keeps us safe, and explore their own connections to Remembrance this year.
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www.britishlegion.org.uk

Teaching Remembrance | Learning Resources | Royal British Legion

We support the teaching of Remembrance across the UK and have designed a range of free teaching resources for Key Stages 1- 4.
www.britishlegion.org.uk www.britishlegion.org.uk

 
Curryong said:
The eleventh hour signal ending the fighting in WW1 in the trenches and elsewhere was an arbitrary thing anyway, chosen to give the authorities time to pass the word down to officers in the field in an age where there were very few phones or wireless transmissions.

The actual Armistice treaty had been signed at 5am that morning but it was felt the the 11/11 signal would be much more clearly transmitted over the wires etc than any other hour on that day. Sadly some officers were still sending men out to die in the hours before 11am.
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Indeed right up until eleven.

The graves of the first & last British soldiers to be killed, buried opposite each other. Purely by chance.


And the last British Empire soldier, a Canadian, was killed at two minutes to 11.

 
Durham said:
Indeed right up until eleven.

The graves of the first & last British soldiers to be killed, buried opposite each other. Purely by chance.


And the last British Empire soldier, a Canadian, was killed at two minutes to 11.

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I’ve just been reading a bio of Admiral Wemyss who was the senior British envoy at the Armistice negotiations with the Germans in Nov 1918.
Apparently it was Wemyss who felt that the 11/11 had ‘a poetical quality’ and so he proposed the 11th hour as the end of fighting. That was accepted.

Apparently back in Britain the PM Lloyd George was extremely annoyed as he wished to announce the end of the conflict at 2:30 pm in the House of Commons. Wemyss pointed out that 2:30 would mean more unnecessary loss of life, and so Lloyd George gave in. However Wemyss was replaced at Versailles Peace Conference the next year, 1919, by Admiral Sir David Beatty.
 
Durham said:
Thank you TLLK, yes they're very interesting & terribly sad of course. This recent one's from the RCT:

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Having had 2 great grandfathers who fought in World War 1 its wonderful to learn more on the traditions of Remembrance Day.

The Princess of Wales today
 
Last edited:
Queen Camilla traveled by train from Chippenham in Wiltshire to London Paddington, as part of Great Western Railway's "Poppies to Paddington" initiative today, November 11:


** gettyimages gallery **

https://twitter.com/x/status/1988197126229422464

https://twitter.com/x/status/1988196101086970340



Meanwhile the Princess of Wales attended the Armistice Day Service of Remembrance at The National Memorial Arboretum in Alrewas, Staffordshire:


** gettyimages gallery **


www.dailymail.co.uk

Kate's touching tribute to the fallen as she leads Armistice Day

The Princess of Wales has attended the Royal British Legion Service of Remembrance at the National Memorial Arboretum in Staffordshire.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

https://twitter.com/x/status/1988199476360868152

 
Nice to see Kate take a place in the rotation of royals at the National memorial in Staffordshire - I believe this is her first time attending and hopefully we will see her in rotation more at this event
 
PrincessofEurope said:
Nice to see Kate take a place in the rotation of royals at the National memorial in Staffordshire - I believe this is her first time attending and hopefully we will see her in rotation more at this event
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Glad to see her participating in the rotation too. Am I imagining things or does it appear that there's more rotating events in King Charles' reign than in throughout the late Queen Elizabeth II's?
 
Has any user seen a video of the Princess of Wales reading the poem at the service?
 
iceflower said:
King Charles and Queen Camilla hosted a VJ Day 80th anniversary reception at Windsor Castle this evening, November 11.
The Prince of Wales, the Duke of Edinburgh, the Duchess of Gloucester attended as well:


** gettyimages gallery **


https://twitter.com/x/status/1988375400456613910

https://twitter.com/x/status/1988360490351821046
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I'm delighted to see six members of the BRF, TM the King and Queen, the Prince of Wales, the Duke of Edinburgh and the Duke and Duchess of Gloucester at tonight's reception for VJ Day 80th anniversary to honor these veterans. Even more exciting is that there is a good number of VJ Day veterans who were able to be present at the event.
My own parents are the children of U.S. Navy veterans who fought in the Pacific Theater during WWII and they are now in their mid-eighties. So to see these veterans still with us to be honored is quite moving.

PrincessofEurope said:
Has any user seen a video of the Princess of Wales reading the poem at the service?
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I've only seen a video of the poet reading his poem but it appeared to have been recorded prior to the service.

I had heard that there was some controversy over the BBC using "Kate Middleton" in the story headline and the broadcasting company has changed the name to "Catherine."

www.newsweek.com

BBC changes headline after Princess Kate backlash

A BBC News a headline about Princess Kate was changed after allegations that the original was "disrespectful."
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com

The BBC News website changed a headline that referred to the Princess of Wales as "Kate" in the midst of a backlash over a presenter who referred to "Kate Middleton" during live coverage on Veterans Day.
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TLLK said:
I had heard that there was some controversy over the BBC using "Kate Middleton" in the story headline and the broadcasting company has changed the name to "Catherine."

www.newsweek.com

BBC changes headline after Princess Kate backlash

A BBC News a headline about Princess Kate was changed after allegations that the original was "disrespectful."
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com
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You'd expect better from the BBC and Catherine should be referred to as the Princess of Wales or Catherine.
Princess Kate fans rage as BBC make major blunder live on air
 
Ironic that some of the complaints and the BBC's apology continue to refer to Kate by a wrong title: Her official title is "The Princess of Wales", not "Catherine, Princess of Wales" (which would be her title in the event of divorce or widowhood).

For the avoidance of confusion: The issue is the title. There is no issue with the name "Kate", which is as correct as "Catherine".

The official wedding website of the then Prince William of Wales and Miss Middleton, which was edited by Miss Middleton herself, explained this in its FAQ:

"Should I use Kate or Catherine?​
​
Miss Middleton uses both names equally, and she has never expressed a preference for either Catherine or Kate since her engagement to Prince William. Catherine is the name that Miss Middleton grew up with in her family, and Kate is the name that she tends to use in a work context."​
​

The Palace does prefer to use "Catherine", but that is consistent with the Palace's general preference for legal names over nicknames. The Palace also tends to use "Timothy" instead of "Tim" for Sir Tim(othy) Laurence, "Michael" instead of "Mike" for Mr. Tindall and "Edoardo" instead of "Edo" for Mr. Mapelli Mozzi.
 
And pretty sloppy of the MP who tried to correct the BBC by using an incorrect title himself:
Jim Shannon, the DUP MP for Strangford, urged the corporation to ensure its journalists were properly briefed on royal protocol. “A reminder to @BBCNews to educate its broadcasters that the Princess of Wales has not been ‘Kate Middleton’ since 2011,” he said. “Her correct title is Catherine, Princess of Wales. Get it right.”
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Get it right, indeed :flowers:
 
Yes, indeed. Jim Shannon, the DUP MP for Strangford, is also on dubious ground when he claims “the Princess of Wales has not been ‘Kate Middleton’ since 2011”. She has not been known as Kate Middleton since 2011, but I understand that remains her name, even though she has been styled by her title instead of her name since 2011.
 
The UK deed poll service website says 'Contrary to popular belief, a woman’s surname does not automatically change to her husband’s surname upon marriage'. And the concept of coverture / feme covert that used to apply in English law regarding the legal identity of married women has long since been scrapped.

If she is 'professionally' known as HRH The Princess of Wales, a news organization such as the BBC should always refer to her as such. There may be circumstances where she prefers to be addressed less formally, similar to how HRH The Duchess of Kent was simply Katherine Kent to her music students, but that is for her to decide.
 
Tatiana Maria said:
Yes, indeed. Jim Shannon, the DUP MP for Strangford, is also on dubious ground when he claims “the Princess of Wales has not been ‘Kate Middleton’ since 2011”. She has not been known as Kate Middleton since 2011, but I understand that remains her name, even though she has been styled by her title instead of her name since 2011.
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Are you sure she didn't change her name upon marriage? Most women in the UK seem to change their name upon marriage (Camilla is an example of that; otherwise should would have been known as 'Camilla Shand' instead of 'Camilla Parker Bowles' before her marriage with Charles - but she is from a different generation, so Catherine could theoretically have decided differently) and the birth certificates of their children don't list 'Catherine Elizabeth Middleton' but 'Catherine Elizabeth, Her Royal Highness The Duchess of Cambridge'.
 
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