Relationships between the Members of the Danish Royal Family

[kalnel]

Dispute between Joachim and Frederik?

I was just reading the current Point de Vue story about the photo call at Grasten, and, if I have my French right, it seems to refer to a recent (or ongoing) dispute between Frederik and Joachim.

The sentence reads: "L'ambiance entre Frederik et Joachim, les deux fils de la reine, ne serait pas au beau fixe, et le cadet aurait ainsi marqué sa fâcherie."

I may be misunderstanding a French idiom or something, but I take that to mean: "The feeling between Frederik and Joachim, the queen's two sons, doesn't seem good, and the younger has picked his fight."

What's up?

 

[Viv]

I was just reading the current Point de Vue story about the photo call at Grasten, and, if I have my French right, it seems to refer to a recent (or ongoing) dispute between Frederik and Joachim.....
What's up?

Some media are barking on about a rift between the brothers ! 'Proof' are pictures of the two looking in different directions etc.. The reason is supposed to be buried somewhere in the wake of Prince Joachim's divorce!!

I doubt that there's any truth in it! From what we (the general public) can see Frederik and Joachim & wives are not hanging out together an awful lot, but that does not mean that "something's the matter". Both couples lead busy lives and have separate sets of friends!
Apart from Graasten the two couples were pictured together at the Monaco wedding!

Viv

 

[maria-olivia]

The day of the annual picture of the family the Royals are mostly smiling for the press.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

The day of the annual picture of the family the Royals are mostly smiling for the press.

But it does give a divided picture with the "rest" of the DRF incl. Joachim more or less staffage and everybody concentrating on Fred's family & QM. It would have looked better to do a shoot with them only because nobody seemed interested in the rest.

Don't think there is a rift though, both brothers are getting on with their own lifes & families. Not sure how close the families are (Marie - Mary & the cousins) but I am sure Joachim & Fred are still very close, being brought up in the DRF will unite forever

 

[greenways]

I did notice at Graasten shoot, and at other times, Fred and Mary do not seem to look at each other very much at all. They do not speak either. Is this my imagination? Just seems a bit odd, as when I am in a crowd with my husband, we often glance at each other or interact with each other in some casual way. It's natural to do that. Observation only.

 

[sjetajiem]

Well you are certainly the only one with that observation.
Even at the birth of the twins when they left the hospital there was joy but no unity, togetherness between the pair

 

[Tarlita]

Goodness with 4 kids to keep an eye on in front of the press, who has time to look ones spouse. Keeping the antics of Isabella under control and trying to get the twins to produce a smile for the cameras, I suspect kept them busy.

 

[Nordic]

Even at the birth of the twins when they left the hospital there was joy but no unity, togetherness between the pair

Yes, there was.

I think the first is where Mary is thanking Frederik for helping her and doing "everything right"
http://www.ppe-agency.com/500px/Jan2011/PPE11011475.jpg
http://www.ppe-agency.com/500px/Jan2011/PPE11011458.jpg

Just two quick examples.

 

[greenways]

Yes, they have a 4 kid's to cope with, I have children as well but I still manage to glance, say a word or smile at my husband. There is not much interaction between these two, it's been going on for a while, from my obs.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Goodness with 4 kids to keep an eye on in front of the press, who has time to look ones spouse. Keeping the antics of Isabella under control and trying to get the twins to produce a smile for the cameras, I suspect kept them busy.

I'd agree here and in general I see F&M rather as pragmatic people, especially after 4 kids & 7 years of marriage. It doesnt come natural to anyone to show affection in public, why making an attempt to fake it.

What makes especially Fred so credible for me is that he doesnt fake anything in front of the camera and I believe that he is very popular with the Danes, despite other shortcomings that have been well discussed in other threads.

In general I dont think the SRF is any more or less dysfunctional as other RF's, the brothers will be close due to their upbringing but the rest will be as ordinary as in other families, its nice when you see each other but its also nice when ways are parting again.

 

[Viv]

But it does give a divided picture with the "rest" of the DRF incl. Joachim more or less staffage and everybody concentrating on Fred's family & QM. It would have looked better to do a shoot with them only because nobody seemed interested in the rest.

I get you point BUT: The¨general idea with the Gråsten-gathering is the inclusion of the extended family and esp. an opportunity for a reunion of the Danish/Greek and German cousins who used to spend many a childhood vacation with grand mother Ingrid! In a way it echoes the former 'Fredensborg-days' of the late 19th century!

IMO the issue this year was the inclusion of the twins! Everybody is swooning over the twins, they definetely stole the picture so to speak! On the other hand could you imagine the comments had they not been included ??
------

And to those imagining a rift between Frederik and Mary: They have been married for seven years now and they are parents of four kids! Their priorities have changed and hopefully they have taken their relationship to a deeper level, other than staring at each other like lovesick teens! Besides I suppose that they have the odd disagreement like any other couple, but that's not necessarily what you 'see' in photos.
Come to think of it: It must be hell being surrounded by cameras, like it must be hell having your every facial expression scrutinized!

viv

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

IMO the issue this year was the inclusion of the twins! Everybody is swooning over the twins, they definetely stole the picture so to speak! On the other hand could you imagine the comments had they not been included ??
------

I dont think there was, one can hardly see Joachims family or Benedikte etc anywhere near the twins, they are like cut off from the "core DRF" = M&H, F&M & kids who of course create all the interest.

 

[Viv]

I dont think there was, one can hardly see Joachims family or Benedikte etc anywhere near the twins, they are like cut off from the "core DRF" = M&H, F&M & kids who of course create all the interest.

Well again, you have a point! IMO they DRF press office need to tell the photographers that they should not focus on particular members of the family how tempting it may be! However I don't see that happening when the twins are present for a photo-opportunity!!
But then again, maybe the rest of the family understand the situation!

Viv

 

[Nordic]

------

And to those imagining a rift between Frederik and Mary: They have been married for seven years now and they are parents of four kids! Their priorities have changed and hopefully they have taken their relationship to a deeper level, other than staring at each other like lovesick teens!

viv

Exactly!
Mary and Frederik have not attended many events together these past 9 months, but there are lots of pics where they look at each other, smiling brightly, holding hands.

 

[greenways]

I hope you are right when you say there are photo's of them smiling and holding hands, just not seen a lot lately. I have been married for 18 years, sure,things do change in a marriage, just hope I am wrong in what I 'see' when these two are together. Of course this is MY interpretation, just as your opinion is your interpretation. That's how democracy works, freedom of expression.

 

[Viv]

I hope you are right when you say there are photo's of them smiling and holding hands, just not seen a lot lately.

In fact there has been plenty! They are often holding hands when they're without the kids, even on more formal occasions, the memorial service in Copenhagen Cathedral for the Norwegian victims springs to mind; they were holding hands most of the time!

Of course this is MY interpretation, just as your opinion is your interpretation. That's how democracy works, freedom of expression

That's right - and yet there is a small difference: I live in the same country as Mary and Frederik! If something was the matter ..well, no, I wouldn't be the first to know , but because of Denmark's size geographically and populationwise rumours travel fast. IMO Fred and Mary will be able to hide the odd disagreement, but anything serious would soon be out of their control! Reporters will pick it up fast!

Viv

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

IMO Fred and Mary will be able to hide the odd disagreement, but anything serious would soon be out of their control! Reporters will pick it up fast!

Viv

Wasnt it when Joachim & Alex divorced that it came to the surprise of almost everybody except the DRF?
And I think when it comes to the crown couple, danish media would be relucatant to write about a matrimonial crisis. Not that I think there is one, but I dont believe that rumours (or the lack of) in the media are a good indicator.

 

[Nordic]

I hope you are right when you say there are photo's of them smiling and holding hands, just not seen a lot lately.

I would't have said it, if I hadn't seen them.

In fact there has been plenty! They are often holding hands when they're without the kids, even on more formal occasions, the memorial service in Copenhagen Cathedral for the Norwegian victims springs to mind; they were holding hands most of the time!
Viv

And photos from the birthday in Amsterdam, weddings in Berleburg and Monaco, Verbier and Aarhus.

I can think of several Danish tabloids that I think wouldn't keep quiet
in case of problems...

 

[nwinther]

It's safer to say that something is amiss, than that everything is OK. Once married, it can only go down hill. Staying together proves nothing, splitting up proves everything.

Personally, I have no reason to think anything is amiss - but if you like to gossip and speculate (and eventually be proven right), go with the unhappy marriage/divided brothers etc.

 

[Mirabel]

I dont think there was, one can hardly see Joachims family or Benedikte etc anywhere near the twins, they are like cut off from the "core DRF" = M&H, F&M & kids who of course create all the interest.

Well, that's only to be expected, imo. Frederik is the heir, not Joachim, plus he has those adorable children, complete with a set of brand-new twins!
Naturally they'll attract most of the photographers.

 

[Madame Royale]

It's safer to say that something is amiss, than that everything is OK. Once married, it can only go down hill. Staying together proves nothing, splitting up proves everything.

Personally, I have no reason to think anything is amiss - but if you like to gossip and speculate (and eventually be proven right), go with the unhappy marriage/divided brothers etc.

And eventually be proven right? There's no certainty of that. Just a bunch of avid royal watchers speculating because they can. People see what they want to see, that doesn't suggest there's any truth to it

 

[Viv]

Wasnt it when Joachim & Alex
divorced that it came to the surprise of almost everybody except
the DRF?

No, the republican tabloid EkstraBladet ran the story several months
before the separation was announced. This caused the RF deferential
Billed Bladet to deny the story right up to the split! (The same
publication was more matter- of- fact under the former editor-in-chief,
who published a story in 1998 about evident problems in the Joachim-Alexandra marriage. That was around the time when Alexandra hissed
at Joachim at the royal theatre - for all TV-viewers to see!).

And I think when it comes to
the crown couple, danish media would be relucatant to write about a matrimonial crisis. Not that I think there is one, but I dont believe that rumours (or the lack of) in the media are a good indicator.

Yes, if we're talking 'Billed Bladet' ! If we exclude BB and the the
'serious' news papers other media wouldn't think twice about printing
a crisis story!

IMO many Danes are beginning to take a slighty more critical view
of their royal family. It's nothing threatening for the monarchy; I just
think that we are not quite as gullible and deferential as we used to
be.
At the end of the day I suppose that a bit of the mud from the 2005
divorce and the debate about CP Frederik, his involvement in the
Olympic Committee and his public performance in general has stuck
somehow.

That's how I perceive the situation from my vantage point; other
Danes may view it differently and I would appreciate if they come
forward!

Viv

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Thanks for sharing your view, Viv

 

[ricarda]

Just seems a bit odd, as when I am in a crowd with my husband, we often glance at each other or interact with each other in some casual way. It's natural to do that. Observation only.

Are you and your husband the crownprincess and crownprince of your country, posing in front of TV cameras and 80+ media people wo will comment on your looks and your children's behaviour? How can you say what's natural or odd in such a situation?

In my eyes anything demonstrative would be odd (e.g. Victoria's ongoing handkissing). But I guess it depends on how reserved or outgoing you are. Mary seems to be a reserved person.

Besides - as others already pointed out - there are lots of pictures and videos showing the interaction between Mary&Frederik.


To Viv
AFAIR there have been rumours about J&A for many years but since they were spread around by papers/tabloids with a "negative" reputation they were not taken seriously by the majority. An then suddenly they were "right". I would say that 2004/2005 was indeed a turning point. From then on the approach was more critical than before.
But IMO (I may be wrong though) things have calmed down again lately (EB and S&H actually writing positive articles once in a while).
I think in the last poll in 2009/2010? the approval ratings were mostly falling (except for Mary). It would be interesting to know the current ratings.

 

[Viv]

To Viv
AFAIR there have been rumours about J&A for many years but since
they were spread around by papers/tabloids with a "negative"
reputation they were not taken seriously by the majority. An then
suddenly they were "right". I would say that 2004/2005 was indeed
a turning point. From then on the approach was more critical than
before. But IMO (I may be wrong though) things have calmed down
again lately (EB and S&H actually writing positive articles once in
a while).

Ricarda, you appear to be well informed about DRF; I don't know
your background, so maybe I'm covering familiar ground :
IMO Ekstra Bladet is an opportunist tabloid! They cover royal events
the one day (increased sales!) and criticize the next according to their agenda ( the Danish republic). This spring they featured a fine interview
with CP Frederik in their Saturday supplement, but one week later they
were onto his throat again!
It's easy to dismiss EB royalty gossip as rubbish, as it is most of the
time! But occasionally they hit the nail on the head, and it seems to
be well researched when they do! They were also the first newspaper
to leak the oncoming engagement of Princess Margrethe and Henri de Montpezat in 1967.

S&H is mostly .....scum!

viv

 

[greenways]

No, I'm not a princess, nor is my husband a prince, Ricardo! I appreciate your view they are constantly watched and it would be annoying. However, I'm still not shaking that feeling that something is not quite right with this royal couple. For example, at Graasten, Joachim and Marie chatted or smiled with each other, as did Marg and Henrik, along with Carina and partner. None of it was overt or teen like, just normal!! Did not see one word spoken or look between these two.(watched video). Please don't bite me for this opinion!

 

[ricarda]

In the videos I saw they looked at each other and talked to each other.
To me Mary didn't look as relaxed as the others but then she had to take care of 4 children under 6. And IMO she generally doesn't appear relaxed in front of cameras (unlike e.g. Marie).
Since 2005 we can read "something isn't quite right with that couple" and, honestly, I am getting tired of it. I am sure there have been ups and downs as in every relationship but I simply don't share your feelings and observations. E.g. I think their happy and confident children, Christian and Isabella, tell a different story.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

To me Mary didn't look as relaxed as the others but then she had to take care of 4 children under 6. And IMO she generally doesn't appear relaxed in front of cameras (unlike e.g. Marie).

I agree, to me it always seems that Mary is trying too hard to come across perfect, while Frederik in contrast is natural to the degree that people can see his feelings much better (good or bad).
I agree that Marie is abit more relaxed but still no comparison to the Queen of the Relaxed, Maxima

 

[greenways]

Agreed, Mary does not seem relaxed in front of camera's, self conscious. (not unusual for people). If my opinion tires you, unfortunate, but does not make my opinion invalid. Think I better let this drop now!!

 

[nwinther]

And eventually be proven right? There's no certainty of that. Just a bunch of avid royal watchers speculating because they can. People see what they want to see, that doesn't suggest there's any truth to it

To illustrate my point:

AFAIR there have been rumours about J&A for many years but since they were spread around by papers/tabloids with a "negative" reputation they were not taken seriously by the majority. An then suddenly they were "right".

If a couple stays together for their entire life it does not mean that there was anything happy about their marriage. They just endured it, put up a facade etc. and noone was the wiser. Outsiders may (rightfully) claim that something is amiss without having concrete evidence - or vice versa.

However, if I claim that M&F are in trouble, all I have to do is wait. If they die married with eachother it is in no way evidence that nothing was wrong, maybe they were indeed walking on a knifes edge their last 30 years of marriage. IF, however, the occaion appear that they divorce I'm officially omniscient. Now, gimme your money!

For a newspaper there's infinitely more reason to think the worst. It's free and you might even be proven right. Any "positive" actions can merely be written off as a "strained effort to keep a stiff upper lip" and then post a picture of them looking the other way or one of them blinking (looking asleep) during a speech from the other.