Princess Ragnhild and family news and picture thread


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Sad news for the RF.
 
Rest in peace Erling Sven Lorentzen!
Did he live in Brazil?
I hope there's at least one mass or memorial ceremony in Norway.
 
Blog Real said:
Rest in peace Erling Sven Lorentzen!
Did he live in Brazil?
I hope there's at least one mass or memorial ceremony in Norway.
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He and his wife moved to Brazil when they married, but he returned to Norway some years after the Princess's death (and found a new partner there, although he did not marry her).
 
Here is a brief biographical article in English, written by a Norwegian historian (unfortunately, the official website does not appear to have one):

Trond Norén Isaksen: On this date: Erling S. Lorentzen’s 90th birthday


[...] During World War II he joined the resistance movement, becoming one of the youngest members of the elite resistance group Company Linge.

When the royal family returned from exile in 1945, Lorentzen became part of the royal protection squad. He was also given the task of teaching the young princesses to sail, and captured the heart of Princess Ragnhild in 1946. Despite initial strong opposition from King Haakon and Crown Princess Märtha, Lorentzen and Princess Ragnhild were eventually allowed to marry [in 1953].

[...]

Following their wedding, Lorentzen and the Princess settled in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, to take care of the Lorentzen family’s business interests. The initial plan was for them to stay there for two years, but it turned out to be forever.

In 1968 Erling S. Lorentzen founded the company Aracruz Cellulose, which turned out to be a great financial success; Lorentzen was able to sell his share for approximately $ 1.7 billion when Aracruz merged with another company in 2008.

[...]
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Sad, but expected news; he was 98 already.

Go to the eternal guard, one of last WWII veterans!
 
I'm sorry if this is somewhere on the thread already, but how was Princess Ragnhild able to convince her parents to allow the marriage? (I assume she didn't have threats to resort to like her brother did.)
 
Prinsara said:
I'm sorry if this is somewhere on the thread already, but how was Princess Ragnhild able to convince her parents to allow the marriage? (I assume she didn't have threats to resort to like her brother did.)
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She was never in line of succession to the throne. Her spouse would never be a member of the royal family. Even so, when she married a commoner her birthday was removed as a flag day.

Contrast to her brother who was going to be king. His spouse would be the queen consort of the country. There was far more pressure for him to marry a 'suitable royal bride'. Trying to convince his father a commoner could make a good future queen consort was another matter.

If she and her future children had a place in succession when she married, there may have been more pressure for her to marry a royal.
 
:previous:

Still, her seven-year wait for approval was not shorter by very much compared to her brother's nine years of waiting, so the objections must have been strong indeed.
 
Countessmeout said:
She was never in line of succession to the throne. Her spouse would never be a member of the royal family. Even so, when she married a commoner her birthday was removed as a flag day.

Contrast to her brother who was going to be king. His spouse would be the queen consort of the country. There was far more pressure for him to marry a 'suitable royal bride'. Trying to convince his father a commoner could make a good future queen consort was another matter.

If she and her future children had a place in succession when she married, there may have been more pressure for her to marry a royal.
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Line of succession or not, she was still a princess and it was very much "not the done thing" then for royalty to marry untitled commoners, and Olav was not particularly keen on using the fairly new NRF as a test bed. She could have made an impressive state marriage, for all we know, had she not been in love with Lorentzen.

Tatiana Maria said:
:previous:

Still, her seven-year wait for approval was not shorter by very much compared to her brother's nine years of waiting, so the objections must have been strong indeed.
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From what I know both Olav and Märtha were opposed, so I'm still interested in hearing how their strong-willed daughter managed to do this. (Did she have to threaten to elope?)

I wonder what King Haakon thought.
 
Sad news bit not unexpected. My condolences to his family.
 
Prinsara said:
Line of succession or not, she was still a princess and it was very much "not the done thing" then for royalty to marry untitled commoners, and Olav was not particularly keen on using the fairly new NRF as a test bed. She could have made an impressive state marriage, for all we know, had she not been in love with Lorentzen.



From what I know both Olav and Märtha were opposed, so I'm still interested in hearing how their strong-willed daughter managed to do this. (Did she have to threaten to elope?)

I wonder what King Haakon thought.
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It seems it was actually Haakon and Martha who were opposed. Not her father.

King Haakon and Crown Princess Märtha went to considerable lengths to try to put an end to the relationship between Princess Ragnhild and Mr Lorentzen, while Crown Prince Olav apparently could not stand for his daughter’s tears – she was always the apple of his eye.
In the end Ragnhild got her way and on 15 May 1953 the happy couple walked down the aisle of Asker Church, just down the road from Skaugum. The problem of what if any official position should be given to the non-royal spouse of a princess was solved with the announcement that the couple would live abroad for the first years.
The choice fell on Rio de Janeiro in Brazil, where the Lorentzen family had business interest. The plan was that they would stay for two years, but two years eventually became the rest of their lives. The Princess relinquished the style “Her Royal Highness” and became known as Princess Ragnhild, Mrs Lorentzen. When abroad she was accorded the style of “Her Highness”.
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Trond Norén Isaksen: At the road’s end: Princess Ragnhild of Norway, Mrs Lorentzen (1930-2012)


In the end it seems more 'it was just a new thing'. There were only a few examples prior to her like Patricia of Connaught.

While it took time it didn't require the kind of blackmail her brother required. As it was still much easier to accept as her husband would never be a royal anyways. It also made it much easier for her sister to marry a commoner.
 
Countessmeout said:
It also made it much easier for her sister to marry a commoner.
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Princess Astrid herself expected though that it would make it more difficult for her to do the same (I believe the quote is somewhere on the blog), since she anticipated that the objections would intensify if the one-off turned into a pattern.
 
Haakon might not have been able to handle Ragnhild's tears but he was by principle, I've read from several sources, just as much against the marriage as his wife and his father was.
Astrid has said several times that she saw her sister's marriage as a one off and that neither she nor her brother ever thought that they would be able to marry commoners.
 
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I always felt that Princess Ragnhild was bitter in later life about her loss of royal title/style following the marriages of her brother/niece/nephew to commoners and then that infamous interview.
 
Tatiana Maria said:
Princess Astrid herself expected though that it would make it more difficult for her to do the same (I believe the quote is somewhere on the blog), since she anticipated that the objections would intensify if the one-off turned into a pattern.
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She feared she would not be allowed. In the end that was proven untrue.

At the time she thought it would be an 'one off thing'.

The only issue with her wedding was that her husband was a divorcee. It took time to find someone who was willing to marry them. The Bishop of Oslo and the minister at Asker both refused due to his divorce. Thankfully the Bishop of Nidaros agreed to marry them.

None of the siblings are comparable:

-Ragnhild was the first one to want to marry a commoner
-Astrid: her sister opened the doors for her to marry a commoner, but she wanted to marry a divorcee which was just not done
-Harald: was the future king, and him marrying a commoner was a huge issue as his wife would be queen consort one day.



Haakon might not have been able to handle Ragnhild's tears but he was by principle, I've read from several sources, just as much against the marriage as his wife and his father was.
Astrid has said several times that she saw her sister's marriage as a one off and that neither she nor her brother ever thought that they would be able to marry commoners.
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As was in my post Haakon was indeed opposed. But Haakon was her grandfather not her father. Her father is Olav.


Her perception at the time her sister was married was that it was an one off. That it would never be allowed again even for her (her brother is a different matter due to his place as future king). She ended up being wrong.
 
Since Haakon was still on the throne, the marriage would have required his approval, not just Olav and Märtha's, so if Olav somehow capitulated and played favorites with Ragnhild, then he still would have had to go talk his very proper father around, and I'm not sure how that came to be, other than Ragnhild and Lorentzen discreetly settling abroad.

All I can think is poor Olav ended up with a lot of experience in an area he never wanted... (and it's still going on today).
 
Prinsara said:
Since Haakon was still on the throne, the marriage would have required his approval, not just Olav and Märtha's, so if Olav somehow capitulated and played favorites with Ragnhild, then he still would have had to go talk his very proper father around, and I'm not sure how that came to be, other than Ragnhild and Lorentzen discreetly settling abroad.

All I can think is poor Olav ended up with a lot of experience in an area he never wanted... (and it's still going on today).
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Not only "discreetly settling abroad" but being actively "encouraged" to do so. In the end Ragnhild and Erling thrived in Brazil but she seems to understandably have become quite bitter about the whole experience.
 
JR76 said:
Not only "discreetly settling abroad" but being actively "encouraged" to do so. In the end Ragnhild and Erling thrived in Brazil but she seems to understandably have become quite bitter about the whole experience.
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But surely they could have come back, especially after her sister married a divorcé? (I understand they were happy in Brazil and didn't want to.) Her bitterness puzzles me a bit. From one perspective, she got exactly what she wanted and lived pretty happily ever after, so...

While we can't figure out exactly how the wedding came about, Erling Lorentzen obviously must have loved her quite sincerely to have stuck it out and braved such upheaval. He seems to have been a courageous man who was richly rewarded. Good for him.
 
Asker Church was where the wedding of Princess Ragnhild and Erling Lorentzen took place in 1953 and also where the Princess is interred.
 
An Ard Ri said:
Asker Church was where the wedding of Princess Ragnhild and Erling Lorentzen took place in 1953 and also where the Princess is interred.
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Isn't also his brother.-in-law Johan Martin Ferner buried there?
 
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Were the tolling of the bell and the presence of the national flag customary for funerals in Norway, or were they honors due to him as a war veteran or a former member of the Royal Family?

It is good to see that his adopted country was represented, with the message from the Brazilian ambassador and the Brazilian flag alongside the Norwegian flag draped over his coffin.

I didn't know that Erling Lorentzen continued to advocate for strong military defense and to mentor younger generations of special forces soldiers even as a civilian.
 
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Looks like a nice family turn out for Erling Lorentzen at Esker Church.
 
An Ard Ri said:
Looks like a nice family turn out for Erling Lorentzen at Esker Church.
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According to Historian Trond Noren Isaksen unfortunately Haakon Lorentzen and his Family could not attendas they live in Brazil due too Covid. But his sisters are both living in Notway at the Moment and could therefore attend.
 
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