Prince Hamzah Bin Al Hussein relinquishes his title as "Prince": April 3,2022

[Rossina]

Queen Noor`s latest tweets:

@queennoor: We all must stay calm and respect HM’s sovereignty for the good of the people of Jordan and its stability. According to legal experts the Council formed in accordance with the 1937 Royal Family Law is in breach of Jordan's 1952 Constitution. Right to Representation is key.

No such administrative legal pleadings, procedures or deliberations were communicated to Hashemite Counsel following the el-Hassan mandate

https://twitter.com/x/status/1528348751538139137

 

[Zonk]

Wow, I am shocked by this sudden announcement. And I am really confused by Queen Noor's tweet.

 

[Prinsara]

I think she is trying to point out 'yes, the king is in charge -no problems- but Hamzah is being denied counsel unlawfully'.

 

[Rossina]

I wonder what is next for the Queen & Prince Hamzah.

Mr. Laith Nasrawin who is a prominent constitutional expert in Jordan commented on Queen Noor’s tweet, saying:

The Royal Family Law is constitutional in all intents and purposes within the limits of Jordanian legislation as it was approved by the Legislative Council at the time and published in the Official Gazette in 1937, after completing legal procedures national laws must undertake.
According to Article 128/2 of the Constitution of 1952, all laws, regulations and other legislative acts in force in the Kingdom upon the Constitution’s entry into force are to remain in force until they are repealed or amended by legislation issued pursuant thereunder.
Since no legislation was issued to repeal or amend the Royal Family Law of 1937, this law is considered effective, and no constitutional or legal suspicion may be attributed to it. Therefore, and taking into consideration the aforementioned, the Council established under the provisions of the Royal Family Law does not violate any constitutional provision. Additionally, the Council includes in its composition representatives of constitutional authorities.
This conversation was taken into account when the Council reviewed documents, and evidence,and took its decision in a manner commensurate with the higher interest of the state, which requires taking precautionary measures to protect it, strengthen its internal cohesion. As to the right of representation,this right applies if this Council were to be a judicial authority.this Council is not considered a judicial body nor are its decisions considered judicial rulings.Rather,its role wasto express opinion on issue of Prince Hamzah.
The Royal Letter also clearly indicated that the Chairman of the Council (HRH Prince Ali bin Al Hussein) was present when His Majesty met with Prince Hamza in March, and listened to what was said about the actions taken by the Prince firsthand.

 

[wartenberg7]

Because it was Hamzah at one point and his uncle for quite a long time before that, so trying to claim the primogeniture "constitutionality" is a bit rich. Abdullah is standing on a very tiny hill.

Still Hussein, as the King´s eldest son, is the current Crown Prince and will likely become King one day. I think his position is not in doubt or questioned by anybody.

 

[Princess Mahala]

Still Hussein, as the King´s eldest son, is the current Crown Prince and will likely become King one day. I think his position is not in doubt or questioned by anybody.

I think that's the heart of the issue. It's hard to believe hamzah is dumb enough to think he could become the heir again. I think Hamzah admitted he was speaking about mismanagement in government but not rising against Abdullah, Although some acquaintances of his were caught speaking against the king and in his favor is dangerous because Jordans not free speech country...

From outside it just seems Abdullah has been insecure in his position given growing hardships and criticism- mixed with his suspicion of queen noor, his father's favoritism of hamzah and the support/popularity hamzah has continued to have with Jordanians- and used all of this to strengthen his support in the kingdom and around the world. The king's claims that the prince was plotting to overthrow him always seemed like a smear campaign.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I think that's the heart of the issue. It's hard to believe hamzah is dumb enough to think he could become the heir again. I think Hamzah admitted he was speaking about mismanagement in government but not rising against Abdullah, Although some acquaintances of his were caught speaking against the king and in his favor is dangerous because Jordans not free speech country...

From outside it just seems Abdullah has been insecure in his position given growing hardships and criticism- mixed with his suspicion of queen noor, his father's favoritism of hamzah and the support/popularity hamzah has continued to have with Jordanians- and used all of this to strengthen his support in the kingdom and around the world. The king's claims that the prince was plotting to overthrow him always seemed like a smear campaign.

But speaking against the (inert, arch-corrupt, hopelessly ineffective and deeply kleptomaniac) Government is speaking against the King.

In countries like Jordan and Morocco the King is so much closer to the executive than their "colleagues" in Europe whom have a far more distant relationship to the day-to-day running of their countries.

 

[Princess Mahala]

But speaking against the (inert, arch-corrupt, hopelessly ineffective and deeply kleptomaniac) Government is speaking against the King.

In countries like Jordan and Morocco the King is so much closer to the executive than their "colleagues" in Europe whom have a far more distant relationship to the day-to-day running of their countries.

Yes agree, that's why this situation has brought up the issue of human rights especially freedom of speech in Jordan. The country is an ally that gets lot of economic support from Western countries built on these principles but who conveniently forget these abuses when praising the king...

 

[Salmaa]

Finally, a recent photo of Prince Hamzah, with two of his daughters, Princesses Zain and Nafisa, at the Al-Salam Palace 9/13/2022

#new صورة جديدة للامير الحر الشريف حمزة بن الحسين وبناته الاميرات زين ونفيسة
13/9/2022
https://www.instagram.com/p/CjKZGvityx1/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=

 

[bekalc]

Because it was Hamzah at one point and his uncle for quite a long time before that, so trying to claim the primogeniture "constitutionality" is a bit rich. Abdullah is standing on a very tiny hill.

I am actually on Abdullah’s side on this actually.

I think it was extremely unfair of King Hussein to ask his son or his brother to bypass their own children in favor of Queen Noors son. If Kings play games like this bypassing their older children in favor of whoever they are with at the time you will Have nothing but huge issues.

It’s far better to just make it the oldest child and be done with it.

His father should have never asked him of that to begin with

 

[auntie]

I am actually on Abdullah’s side on this actually.

I think it was extremely unfair of King Hussein to ask his son or his brother to bypass their own children in favor of Queen Noors son. If Kings play games like this bypassing their older children in favor of whoever they are with at the time you will Have nothing but huge issues.

It’s far better to just make it the oldest child and be done with it.

His father should have never asked him of that to begin with

Right, and I think that Abdullah took a leaf out of his father's book, meaning, Hussein appointed Hassan as Crown prince because there were several assasination attempts on his life and his sons were very young, and mayham would have erupted had Jordan been left without a King. When it was evident that his end was close he reversed the titles back to his bloodline. Did he really think that his own son wouldnt do the same?

 

[bekalc]

I cannot help wonder what Islam would say to about putting aside children for the child of your favorite.

Also say what you will about Abdullah but his personal life is better than his father and his brother. His home life is far more stable.

Isn’t his brother already on a second wife?

The Crown Prince is whoever the King says is right and Abdullah is King

 

[Biri]

I cannot help wonder what Islam would say to about putting aside children for the child of your favorite.

Also say what you will about Abdullah but his personal life is better than his father and his brother. His home life is far more stable.

Isn’t his brother already on a second wife?

The Crown Prince is whoever the King says is right and Abdullah is King

"The eldest son takes the father's place"

"An elder brother has the same rights over a younger brother as a father has over his son"

These are the words of Prophet Muhammad himself (hadiths)

 

[maria-olivia]

Did Hamzah's first wife Noor left him because he was not Crown Prince anymore ?

 

[Biri]

Did Hamzah's first wife Noor left him because he was not Crown Prince anymore ?

Why they marriage collapsed, in fact only they both know.
And they are not obliged to reveal the reason.

 

[Adda]

And both seem very happy with their respective second spouses. So it all worked out in the end (in that regard).

I thought it was the right thing to install primogeniture, if the monarchy wanted to survive, it just couldn't go on with such an arbitarian succession...And then I realized that, in fact, Abdullah hasn't installed Primogeniture!

Hashim is only 18, but let's suppose that he gets married and has a son before Rajwa is able to produce a male heir... It gets messy once again because Abdullah didn't actually fix anything.

But back to Hamzah, he already renounced his princely title, what else is he supposed to do? Is Abdullah going to keep him "quiet" for life?

 

[dryad]

Hello all, I have lurked on this site a long long time but finally feel like posting here because this issue has been on my mind for some reason haha.



If King Hussein really wanted Hamza to be king why didn't he ever say so explicitly? He wrote a few things saying good things about Hamza but never told anyone "on the record" that Hamza should be king. It seems like such a weird argument to me that "Hussein wanted Hamza to be king" but Hussein was anything but a dummy. He was very smart and wily. So why on Earth would he appoint Abdullah and expect him to let Hamza be king without actually telling ANYONE else this plan?



Second, speaking of Hamza's current wife: Does anyone else find it so strange that nobody is mentioning her? E.g. Noor often advocates on twitter for Hamza and her grandkids but never says anything about Basma. Also, she is Canadian isn't she? How come the Canadian government for example isn't speaking up for her if she's also detained? Her family is all in Canada, presumably she has friends in Canada. In Canada people don't have to fear repercussions from Abdullah so how come there is nothing? I find it really weird and confusing.

 

[Prinsara]

Second, speaking of Hamza's current wife: Does anyone else find it so strange that nobody is mentioning her? E.g. Noor often advocates on twitter for Hamza and her grandkids but never says anything about Basma. Also, she is Canadian isn't she? How come the Canadian government for example isn't speaking up for her if she's also detained? Her family is all in Canada, presumably she has friends in Canada. In Canada people don't have to fear repercussions from Abdullah so how come there is nothing? I find it really weird and confusing.

This is the first I have heard of Basma being Canadian. Was she born in Canada?

 

[dryad]

This is the first I have heard of Basma being Canadian. Was she born in Canada?

Yes, according to her wikipedia and also in a number of articles she is identified as Canadian and her parents and siblings are all in Canada.


I am wondering if she maybe gave up her citizenship when she got married? I find usually when citizens are detained (especially if it's a high profile case) governments at least release a statement saying "we're monitoring the situation/in contact with the person" but in this case nothing? Maybe that would explain it.

 

[Adda]

She was born in Stratford, Ontario.


Isn't the urban legend that Hamzah was too young and Hussein simply wanted to please Noor? He couldn't possibly think Abdullah, who already had a son, was going to keep Hamzah as Crown Prince. Especially when he was removing his own brother after 3 decades as a heir.

 

[dryad]

I think this is it, Adda. I guess I was confused because I see so much on social media people saying "Hamza is the true king because Abdullah promised he would step down after x years and he broke the promise" and I keep thinking this makes very little sense to me. I guess I shouldn't take too seriously what people post on social media.

 

[Prinsara]

Yes, according to her wikipedia and also in a number of articles she is identified as Canadian and her parents and siblings are all in Canada.


I am wondering if she maybe gave up her citizenship when she got married? I find usually when citizens are detained (especially if it's a high profile case) governments at least release a statement saying "we're monitoring the situation/in contact with the person" but in this case nothing? Maybe that would explain it.

I don't know if Jordan requires you to give up citizenship when you marry in or out (Canada almost never does, so I'm pretty sure it would be from the JRF side. Remember Haya went to the UK, not back to Jordan.) She is not a randomly detained Canadian citizen, though.

The articles also say both her parents are from "affluent Jordanian families". Perhaps they worry what could happen to the rest of their relatives if they start provoking Abdullah.

 

[Adda]

I think this is it, Adda. I guess I was confused because I see so much on social media people saying "Hamza is the true king because Abdullah promised he would step down after x years and he broke the promise" and I keep thinking this makes very little sense to me. I guess I shouldn't take too seriously what people post on social media.

Well, Hamzah is much beloved, he really is lovely. The fact he looks just like his father makes a lot of older people nostalgic, I guess.

Slightly off topic: his Arabic is impossibly elegant.

 

[dryad]

To follow up on my earlier comments I did find this: Jordan: Release Prince Hamzah and his Family from Arbitrary Imprisonment



Interesting. I'm not familiar with the DAWN MENA org (though obvs I know all about Jamal Khassoggi the founder)



It seems so murky. I will say for balance: I'm very active on instagram and for the last year there have been like dozens of photos of Hamzah and the children being released (as in, very recent photos) so it can't be true that the family is completely "incommunicado" and "has no access to the outside world via phone or internet" as the report says. But it's likely that it's very very limited. This article does make the point of Basma's Canadian citizenship.



Honestly, there are more questions than answers.



The thing that I ask myself the most is: how the heck do these instagram accounts keep getting these personal photos?!?! And often with the tags like "exclusive" "taken today!"



Anyway thanks everyone for the warm and engaged responses. I love actively chatting about these things and nobody in my personal life is interested in talking to me about it. I hope I will become an active poster here.

To follow up on my earlier comments I did find this: Jordan: Release Prince Hamzah and his Family from Arbitrary Imprisonment



Interesting. I'm not familiar with the DAWN MENA org (though obvs I know all about Jamal Khassoggi the founder)



It seems so murky. I will say for balance: I'm very active on instagram and for the last year there have been like dozens of photos of Hamzah and the children being released (as in, very recent photos) so it can't be true that the family is completely "incommunicado" and "has no access to the outside world via phone or internet" as the report says. But it's likely that it's very very limited. This article does make the point of Basma's Canadian citizenship.



Honestly, there are more questions than answers.



The thing that I ask myself the most is: how the heck do these instagram accounts keep getting these personal photos?!?! And often with the tags like "exclusive" "taken today!"



Anyway thanks everyone for the warm and engaged responses. I love actively chatting about these things and nobody in my personal life is interested in talking to me about it. I hope I will become an active poster here.

 

[Hajariraq]

Hi

Hi guys,I don't know how share photos with you, I have new photos for prince Hamzah's children ?,I am new here

 

[Prinsara]

Hi guys,I don't know how share photos with you, I have new photos for prince Hamzah's children ?,I am new here

The best thing to do is upload them somewhere with links (like postimg) and post the links here. If they are not your photos, then linking to wherever they are posted will usually work.

 

[Hajariraq]

Prince Hamzah's children(Nafisa and Muhammad) on 28/6/2023

Instagram

www.instagram.com

Okay,thank u ����

 

[iceflower]

Queen Noor commented on the anniversary yesterday:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1775542895379943519

 

[bebita99]

I wonder if he is allowed visits from family? i hope their house and garden aren't bugged, that wouldn't be fair to the children, it would be like living in a big brother house.

Does anyone have any idea as to when he will be released?

 

[dryad]

Hello bebita. I don't know if the house/garden are bugged, but I do know that Queen Noor, a few months after the arrests happened, tweeted a couple of comments that her and her grandkids (namely Princess Haya bint Hamzah) had their phones bugged. I think she maybe alluded to the fact that they found that Pegasus software had been put on their phones.

I strongly suspect that all of the family is under surveillance.

If you follow social media (esp. Instagram) you will see many photos and videos of the children with Hamzah, the kids playing sports, attending school etc. So very hopefully they are living an *almost* normal life. It's not clear if they still live at the palace with Hamzah or not. I have heard rumours on some websites (ONLY rumours/gossip, I cannot say if true) that they no longer do live at the palace with him.

And finally, my impression is that he will only be released IF the King decides he can be released. And that the King had given him a few chances and made a "final decision" to detain him indefinitely. The impression we all have is Hamzah is under house arrest for the rest of his life, unless he and the King are reconciled. (And my gut says neither in inclined towards a reconciliation).